Second look

[Biscuit799]

So I did a search for "second look" and nothing popped up. I've been told at several interviews that I should come back and do a second look. One program actually blatantly stated that doing so would move me up on their rank list. This led me to two questions. First, how important is it to do a second look in general; and secondly, if a program does strongly suggest a second look, does that mean they're just going to discount any students that just can't afford either the time or the money to come do a second look?

Thanks in advance!

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[pmpkn219]

It sounds to me like a program who told you "take a second look and we'll rank you higher" WOULD hold it against you if you didn't come (for financial/scheduling reasons, whatever). And that sucks. I'm pretty sure a few programs I interviewed at said the ACGME doesn't like second looks because of the way they can favor people who can get back, over those who can't.

Most places I visited said we could come back, but it wouldn't matter to their ranking (do they mean it? who knows). I'm not going back to any of them because they're all long-distance and I feel comfortable with my list after talking to the residents, emailing any forgotten questions and seeing the program once.

 

[John Deere Gree]

Instead of doing a second look in your situation I would e-mail those people who make the rank list (if residents have a say I would e-mail them too) and keep in fairly good contact with them through at least February 25th. I would also make it a point to e-mail the program director something about the awesome, wonderful time you had and how much you would love to end up at their place but that time (and probably more importantly, finances) will prevent you from taking a second look visits.

 

[zoondel]

Prohibitive travel notwithstanding, I think a second look visit can be valuable, especially once you've narrowed down your rank list. I went on two second look visits to my top two - one to a program where I felt I didn't get the full picture during my interview day, and my home institution (which was my other top choice) for direct comparison.

Otherwise, I agree with above posters. Unless it's your dream program where you think you have a shot, and they're telling you to your face that if you come back you'll be ranked higher, it doesn't really make sense. Just keep in touch with the PD.

Good luck!

 

[Ludicolo]

Prohibitive travel notwithstanding, I think a second look visit can be valuable, especially once you've narrowed down your rank list. I went on two second look visits to my top two - one to a program where I felt I didn't get the full picture during my interview day, and my home institution (which was my other top choice) for direct comparison.

You did a second look at your home institution? Did you not do a rotation there?

 

[zoondel]

You did a second look at your home institution? Did you not do a rotation there?

Yeah, I did. And I did my sub-I there too. But I graduated from med school two years ago, and while my memories were mostly positive, I saw some really attractive programs during my interview season, and I just wanted to compare apples to apples(especially since I'll be doing my residency there.)

 

[CaMD]

"Requiring" a 2nd look is not cool. We are broke and tired. (At least I am.) Unless you desperately want a certain program I would just explain that you'd love to but due to financial concerns you can't and that you hope it won't affect their ranking.

 

[LadyGrey]

FWIW, my second looks haven't really told me anything I didn't already know. I went back to my top places and to one place that everyone has been saying is the shizzit but that I hadn't liked. Still liked the places I had liked inititially. Still got a bad vibe from Big Deal Program.

 

[Ludicolo]

Yeah, I did. And I did my sub-I there too. But I graduated from med school two years ago, and while my memories were mostly positive, I saw some really attractive programs during my interview season, and I just wanted to compare apples to apples(especially since I'll be doing my residency there.)

Ah. Explains the limbo location.

Reason I was puzzled because once I interviewed someone for residency who did an audition rotation at my institution 2 months before. At the end of the interview he asked could he come back for a second look. Which I informed him would actually be a third look. Which caused me to look at him funny.

 

[zoondel]

Ah. Explains the limbo location.

Reason I was puzzled because once I interviewed someone for residency who did an audition rotation at my institution 2 months before. At the end of the interview he asked could he come back for a second look. Which I informed him would actually be a third look. Which caused me to look at him funny.

Sounds like he was trying to butter you up, or perhaps he had a short-term memory problem.
My soon-to-be PD is really laid back, and I had discussed it with him beforehand. My second look day was actually quite productive, because I got a chance to chat with the current and incoming chiefs privately about the program and where it's headed. It was actually a really nice day.

I've been in limbo for quite some time. Looking forward to getting back into medicine (I hope I remember something from med school

 

[elr1983]

I've already submitted my rank list but didn't do a second look at my #1. They didn't say this was necessary on interview day, but but they didn't say it was unnecessary, either. Do you think they are going to think I am less interested if I don't? I feel silly spending money and time going up there since I've already decided on number one.....but, if it'll hurt my chances, I suppose I should?! And perhaps it'll change my mind?

 

[waldenwoods]

I've already submitted my rank list but didn't do a second look at my #1. They didn't say this was necessary on interview day, but but they didn't say it was unnecessary, either. Do you think they are going to think I am less interested if I don't? I feel silly spending money and time going up there since I've already decided on number one.....but, if it'll hurt my chances, I suppose I should?! And perhaps it'll change my mind?

I'd take what the people from your #1 said at face value. My experience in peds interviews is that second looks are for people who want to come back to see something they didn't see on interview day. Some people have even said that it has no effect on your position. That said, I don't know about that particular program.

When I read your post it prompted me to question whether you want it to change your mind. If the answer is yes, maybe it is worth going back for a second look. However, if you are sure about your #1 and just worried about whether they perceive that you are showing enough interest, there are probably less expensive ways of doing that.

 

[MeowMix]

You either go if you need more info about the program, or to emphasize how interested you are.

If you want to get brownie points, it depends who is ranking you and which specialty you're matching into.

Our program is doing final reviews of applicants' packets now, prior to ranking. I never met some of the applicants and can't really advocate for them in the ranking process. Since all our residents and faculty in our program have input, it would be good for you if I met you and had even a brief favorable impression. So you need to meet people who have input in the ranking process. And you need to do it before the rank list is made up. At some programs, this would be irrelevant and wouldn't make any difference. At others, it does matter because it distinguishes you from the crowd of applicants who didn't spend much time with us.

Just remember that you are on stage during a second look, as on interview day. Don't do it unless you do well in that setting.