Second thoughts on pharmacy...

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pharm123221

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I've only somewhat recently been looking into SDN and researching the poor job perspective for the field of pharmacy. I've already had all my pharmacy school interviews and am currently waiting to hear back, though one has accepted me already. I have a goal currently in mind to complete pharmacy school, try and obtain a residency, and work in a clinical setting. After seeing all the struggles on here, however, I'm beginning to reconsider pharmacy school and perhaps take a year off to try med school. My logic is that if I want a clinical setting, why not just do med school? I'm going to have to (most likely) do residency anyways if I want a clinical job. Does anyone have any advice on the matter? I know with some experience I should be able to land a med school acceptance with my current GPA. I can't see any other downfall except delaying a year. The pricing is about the same, right? I just don't see the positive of sticking with pharmacy if I'm going to be putting in as much effort as I would as a med student (or so I think). Help please!
 
I've only somewhat recently been looking into SDN and researching the poor job perspective for the field of pharmacy. I've already had all my pharmacy school interviews and am currently waiting to hear back, though one has accepted me already. I have a goal currently in mind to complete pharmacy school, try and obtain a residency, and work in a clinical setting. After seeing all the struggles on here, however, I'm beginning to reconsider pharmacy school and perhaps take a year off to try med school. My logic is that if I want a clinical setting, why not just do med school? I'm going to have to (most likely) do residency anyways if I want a clinical job. Does anyone have any advice on the matter? I know with some experience I should be able to land a med school acceptance with my current GPA. I can't see any other downfall except delaying a year. The pricing is about the same, right? I just don't see the positive of sticking with pharmacy if I'm going to be putting in as much effort as I would as a med student (or so I think). Help please!

Sounds like you have your mind made up to me
 
Definitely something you need to think long and hard about. While there is still some demand for certain PGY-2 specialized pharmacists (def. not critical care), I don't see how this will remain because it seems the supply of these pharmacists will eventually outweigh the demand. I'm hoping to lock one of these positions before they're gone but as a 4th year student (c/o 2014) my optimism is starting to run dry. I don't think any of us know exactly what will happen but I don't think medicine is quite safe either but is probably a better bet than pharmacy right now.
 
What you plan to do (pharmacy school + 2 years residency) will require about 6 years. Med school + residency will probably take an additional 1-3 years depending on your specialty, so you might as well take that route if that is what interests you.
 
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A year is nothing in the grand scheme of things..... Med school
 
A year is nothing in the grand scheme of things..... Med school

its two years actually, 4+3 for IM vs 4+2 for PGY2 specialty. But the OP also need one more year to get BS for med school.
 
I've only somewhat recently been looking into SDN and researching the poor job perspective for the field of pharmacy. I've already had all my pharmacy school interviews and am currently waiting to hear back, though one has accepted me already. I have a goal currently in mind to complete pharmacy school, try and obtain a residency, and work in a clinical setting. After seeing all the struggles on here, however, I'm beginning to reconsider pharmacy school and perhaps take a year off to try med school. My logic is that if I want a clinical setting, why not just do med school? I'm going to have to (most likely) do residency anyways if I want a clinical job. Does anyone have any advice on the matter? I know with some experience I should be able to land a med school acceptance with my current GPA. I can't see any other downfall except delaying a year. The pricing is about the same, right? I just don't see the positive of sticking with pharmacy if I'm going to be putting in as much effort as I would as a med student (or so I think). Help please!

Just make sure that you really want to be a physician.
A lot of people have the "clinical" dream in pharmacy which means that it only works out for a select few (not saying it wouldn't for you, just something to keep in mind). If you don't think you could be happy in other areas of pharmacy, then it probably would be worthwhile to pursue another career where you know you will definitely end up in a clinical position in the end.
 
If your goal is to become a healthcare professional in a field that has some demand, I'd look into becoming a PA..doesn't take as long as becoming an MD does and pay is still decent.
 
I've only somewhat recently been looking into SDN and researching the poor job perspective for the field of pharmacy. I've already had all my pharmacy school interviews and am currently waiting to hear back, though one has accepted me already. I have a goal currently in mind to complete pharmacy school, try and obtain a residency, and work in a clinical setting. After seeing all the struggles on here, however, I'm beginning to reconsider pharmacy school and perhaps take a year off to try med school. My logic is that if I want a clinical setting, why not just do med school? I'm going to have to (most likely) do residency anyways if I want a clinical job. Does anyone have any advice on the matter? I know with some experience I should be able to land a med school acceptance with my current GPA. I can't see any other downfall except delaying a year. The pricing is about the same, right? I just don't see the positive of sticking with pharmacy if I'm going to be putting in as much effort as I would as a med student (or so I think). Help please!

I was in your same situation a few weeks ago. Got all excited that I received my first acceptance and then I came on these forums and felt like I had the wind knocked out of me. I started to doubt whether or not pharmacy school would be right for me if I was going to struggle to find a job and not be able to pay off my debt when I got out. I started to do more research into other options (MD, DDS, PA, Perfusion, Podiatry, etc, etc, etc) and always came back to pharmacy. I also spoke to about 25 different pharmacists at work, many which came from other areas to work at our hospital. I had my GF (who is a retail pharmacist) do some recon with several of the people she graduated with (both in hospital and retail). The bottom line is that it is no where near as bad as some of the people here make it out to be. One of the pharmacists I spoke with is married to a physician and said 100% without a doubt she would become a pharmacist again and would not recommend an MD to anyone that wants to have a "life" outside of work. Same thing with a pharmacist whose brother is a PA. He says it's very stressful and is always taking work home with him and is on call quite often.

If you look into these posts you'll find that the same 4-5 people are complaining in each of these threads. Some of the points they bring up are valid, but the majority are not. Many are in retail and are complaining that things aren't as good now (in the midst of the recession) as they were back before the recession hit. Many of these people graduated during the pre-recession growth period where there was a huge pharmacist shortage. Some may have been the few straight PharmD slackers (no ECs, just looking for the degree) foaming at the mouth for easy money straight out of school. These people exist as my GF went to a top school and a popular chant was "C's for 100g's." Well those days are gone for the foreseeable future, and IMO that is for the best. If you are in it straight up for the easiest money, I would look into PA. Some schools are mostly 2 year on top of your bachelors so your debt load is lower. They come out making 80-90k and are in high demand right now. There are some problems there as well (low autonomy, extremely competitive ATM with class sizes 1/3 the size of pharmacy, competition for jobs with NPs, MANY new schools opening now and many more planned, etc). So nothing you go into is going to be 100% easy sailing (especially in the wake of the recession).

Undoubtedly, this post will be slammed by the "doom and gloom" trolls, but don't let it discourage you. I've spent the better part of the past couple of months researching all the available options and like I said, I'm more than comfortable now going into pharmacy despite the bleak picture that is often painted in these forums. If you want more concrete information feel free to PM me and I'll go over some of the other findings. I would suggest that you look for information outside of these forums, and take everything you read here with a grain of salt. Don't let what you read here change your decision, but use the "information" that these trolls spew to better yourself by working hard so that when you get done with school you are sure of your abilities and are a competitive candidate for whatever area you want to go into.
 
I know I have been bearish on our profession but please take what I and others say with a grain of salt. You are about to make a life changing decision. Don't base it on what people on this forum say. Our experiences may be just geographical. Do your own research. Speak to people in the profession. I also recommend creating a pharmacist resume and then sending it out to companies and locations where you may work as a pharmacist. Count how many replies you get. This will give you a picture to how the profession is currently doing. Wish you the best.
 
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I know I have been bearish on our profession but please take what I and others say with a grain of salt. You are about to make a life changing decision. Don't base it on what people on this forum say. Our experiences may be just geographical. Do your own research. Speak to people in the profession. I also recommend creating a pharmacist resume and then sending it out to companies and locations where you may work as a pharmacist. Count how many replies you get. This will give you a picture to how the profession is currently doing. Wish you the best.

Yea I believe where someone plans to practice is the biggest factor in the difficulty of finding a job. One needs only look at the AACP pharmacy school locator to see the areas with the highest school densities. Many of the complaints on these forums stem from people located in those areas. Combine the specific effects of the recession on pharmacy (decreased retail pharmacy openings = decreased hiring) with the fact that many people are underwater on their mortgage and you have a recipe for disaster. Many people aren't able to move to "better" areas where the market isn't as saturated. Those high density areas are popping out 1000+ pharmacists each year and it makes for a tough time for these individuals especially when they were used to the job market fluidity that abounded pre-recession.
 
Other crosscurrents:

1. Affordable Care Act--appears to be a default on Medicare/medicaid benefits, hence reduction of income to healthcare.

2. To delever the system bloated sectors such as govt, finance, and healthcare will be smaller.

3. 100 year war cycle is due 2014--whether that would be positive or negative for pharmacy I don't know.

4. Artificial Intelligence--could dovetail nicely with Affordable Care Act, no pesky humans to protest death panel agendas

The bottom line, unlike previous generations, this one has to undertake a ton of duration risk by accepting these loan burdens with such a dynamic marketplace. Toffler's Future Shock, we're living it.
 
The time will go by fast if you live out of state. If it's the next state over, you can always go home on vacation. I went to school across the country from where I was from, so I never saw anyone. I would have gone to medical school but I was an adult student going back to school. If I had to do everything all over again, I would have gone to medical school.
 
I've only somewhat recently been looking into SDN and researching the poor job perspective for the field of pharmacy. I've already had all my pharmacy school interviews and am currently waiting to hear back, though one has accepted me already. I have a goal currently in mind to complete pharmacy school, try and obtain a residency, and work in a clinical setting. After seeing all the struggles on here, however, I'm beginning to reconsider pharmacy school and perhaps take a year off to try med school. My logic is that if I want a clinical setting, why not just do med school? I'm going to have to (most likely) do residency anyways if I want a clinical job. Does anyone have any advice on the matter? I know with some experience I should be able to land a med school acceptance with my current GPA. I can't see any other downfall except delaying a year. The pricing is about the same, right? I just don't see the positive of sticking with pharmacy if I'm going to be putting in as much effort as I would as a med student (or so I think). Help please!

Now anyone who knows about this, please feel free to correct me, but when comparing medical school and pharmacy curriculas and reading some forums on comparing the two, medical school appears to be harder during the 4 years of training. In medical school, you have to learn more in the basic sciences like anatomy, physiology, pathology, histology, biochemistry, microbiology, genetics, embryology, immunology, and even pharmacology. There is a block program a friend of mine is going to where they delve into every one of these subjects from the very first block. Just reading forums on the internet, people who know people in both programs tend to say medical school is harder than pharmacy school.

I'm not convinced that you can just go through medical school+residency in 7+years and its just smooth sailing from there as though that was the end of the story. First of all, with all the stories of prescription drug abuse and depression that I hear about in medical school, I think there is probably usually some lasting if often only subtle, damage done to many if not most people that go through the rigor of medical school. "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" is, unfortunately, not scientifically correct. Pharmacy school may make you sacrifice a bit of yourself the same way, but probably less based on what I've said earlier about it likely being easier. Also, once you graduate, medical jobs have a lot of issues with insurance companies and malpractice insurance, which only add stress to the job. While the pharmacy job market is saturated in many areas (NOT everywhere), medical school reimbursements are also an issue and for many fields there is talk on the medical forums about them going down (primarily government insurance).

Also, you don't have to do residency and if you do - which appears to the case here - its only 1-2 years.

And if you're from California, pharmacy school is especially easier to get into than medical school at the moment due to the new schools opening up (while the two new UC medical schools have opened up, they've only been taking in low "charter" numbers of students), which basically means you're less likely to be forced out of the state to pursue your career.

I actually still am deciding between medical school and pharmacy school, too. But with medical school, I will be forced out of state when I want to be near to family and then there's longer and apparently harder education. Too much sacrifice for me in this stage of my life and in the state I am in.
 
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It never was a problem for me going out of state. Sure, it was hard not getting to see anyone, but I dealt with it. I also never would opt out of a school because it was hard. I always thought that if I worked hard, I would make it through. I organized study groups, went to office hours, etc.
 
Yea I believe where someone plans to practice is the biggest factor in the difficulty of finding a job. One needs only look at the AACP pharmacy school locator to see the areas with the highest school densities. Many of the complaints on these forums stem from people located in those areas. Combine the specific effects of the recession on pharmacy (decreased retail pharmacy openings = decreased hiring) with the fact that many people are underwater on their mortgage and you have a recipe for disaster. Many people aren't able to move to "better" areas where the market isn't as saturated. Those high density areas are popping out 1000+ pharmacists each year and it makes for a tough time for these individuals especially when they were used to the job market fluidity that abounded pre-recession.

Keep in mind that you are betting these places won't be saturated by the time you graduate from pharmacy school. I think most people would rather move than default on their student loans.
 
Medical school is a lot of commitment and sacrifices. This differs greatly if you compare it with pharmacy. There is a lot of flexibility and you are not going to miss out a lot in a thing called "life."
 
You know what they say - 30s is now the new 20s! We are the debt generation and can't even start our lives until we have paid off this debt.
 
You know what they say - 30s is now the new 20s! We are the debt generation and can't even start our lives until we have paid off this debt.

Awe that sucks. I'll be getting a stem cell therapy once I pay off my debts.
 
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Are they still talking about stem cells? When I was an undergraduate, it was all about genetics and how it would change our world. That was 10 years ago and still not much today.
 
Are they still talking about stem cells? When I was an undergraduate, it was all about genetics and how it would change our world. That was 10 years ago and still not much today.

Yes, stem cell research advanced really well this past years. A medical group in Germany (Not sure) was able to do skin regeneration treatments using stem cells. 50+ year old people with money are looking flawless as if they are in their 20s. The whole treatment cost 20K. The price will eventually decrease in the future.

PS: Not sure about other medical uses since people are looking at $$$. The money is in cosmetic and beauty.
 
You forgot about boner pills. 🙂

We are talking about the stem cell therapy...but in terms of Erectile Dysfunction, I think it can work as well if you can't hold an erection. Stem cells can regenerate the tissue lining that holds the blood. Just my thought XD

Anyway, back to the topic. I think I'm going to pursue pharmacy 😳 I have my doubts but I really want to become a pharmacist.

Counting and identifying microbes are so boring.
 
Keep in mind that you are betting these places won't be saturated by the time you graduate from pharmacy school. I think most people would rather move than default on their student loans.

Well those who are underwater on their mortgages don't have very many options. There are a few programs in place now, but they have pretty strict requirements. Short sales and foreclosures are what most people would have to do and at that point your credit is already ruined to the point that defaulting on your student loan wouldn't make a bit of difference. If there are these new pharmacy grads that are coming out with 200k-300k in student loan debt (I've never met this person around where I live) then yes I feel sorry for them. That is an insane amount of debt to be coming out with such a saturated market. I will be coming out with a bit less than ~150k in debt, which is obviously still quite a bit. I plan on putting in for every scholarship I can to get that debt down as much as possible. If I can get it down to ~100k before I graduate I'll be happy. Those looking into pharmacy as a career should definitely also take future debt into consideration in the face of a waning job market. IMO the top 2 things new students should be looking at is 1) cost of education and 2) quality of the school.

I am a good example of this exact decision making process. I only applied to 2 schools, got into 1 so far and should hear from the other today. The school I already got into is a newer school (1 year from graduating their 1st class) with what looks like a decent program and a brand new $12 million facility. I have decided that I will not be attending that institution regardless if I don't get into my other choice today. It's not that they don't have what looks to be a good program, it's just that my 1st choice is ranked #3 in the nation, is established as a leader in the pharmacy community, and is a bit cheaper. For me it's not worth it in this market to go to a new program, with limited EC activities and a slightly higher price tag. All those things need to be weighed now whereas 4 years ago I would have been happy to go to either school. Those who are going into new schools and are coming out with 200-300k in debt have only themselves to blame.
 
I have a friend that moved to Texas for work. He is a new grad and doesn't have a mortgage. He packed up and moved. The new grads will eventually go to wherever there is a job.
 
I have a friend that moved to Texas for work. He is a new grad and doesn't have a mortgage. He packed up and moved. The new grads will eventually go to wherever there is a job.

What city/county Bio? I've been hearing its just rural TX with the jobs.

Big congrats are in store for your friend if it was the elusive Austin....
 
I think everyone has second thoughts in any kind of career that they pick, it's natural. In the end you can probably go back to school and work per diem as a pharmacist to pay most of your bills and not accrue much debt (or more debt at all). You sacrifice a few years of making 100k+ but if you are wanting a career change that badly you have to weigh to cost/benefit of everything. You also need to factor in the interest on your current loans building though while you are in school.
 
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What city/county Bio? I've been hearing its just rural TX with the jobs.

Big congrats are in store for your friend if it was the elusive Austin....
I think it is El Paso. Not an easy thing to do but he did the right thing.
 
If the original poster is so worried about staying near his family, wait until he graduates. You may have to relocate then and be far away from them anyways. I had to take a job on the west coast for 2 years, 2000 miles away from everyone.
 
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I'm in a similar boat.

I'm in a 6-year program, and at the point where I need to decide whether I should commit to pharm school, and I feel completely stressed out. I too, would probably just try for clinical pharmacy, so I'm thinking med school would make more sense BUT:

1) Unlike the OP, I doubt I could get in, especially not first try. My resume is too pharmacy focused.
2) Pharm school is really hard, but med school is a whole different game (one of the reasons I chose pharm initially). I really don't know if I could handle it.
3) It is definitely not only a year difference...
Undergrad + pharm school + residency= 7-8 years
Undergrad + med school + most residencies= 11-12+ years O_O
4) Since I'm in a 0+6, I'm giving up almost guaranteed grad school. It's very difficult to give up the networking, friends, etc I already made for such an ambiguous future...

I know NP and PA are other less intense options but nursing requirements are totally different from prehealth professions and I don't think I'd be willing to restart. PA doesn't really offer the same specialties that interest me with the MD (pathology, radiology, anesthesiology, etc.) and there are far less avenues to get into industry or research (what I'm also interested in).

Similar situation, but would you offer the same advice given my situation? I'd really appreciate any insight!
 
1
 
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ATTENTION: ALL PHARMACISTS & STUDENTS

The life we had planned, a fulfilling career with steady employment & adequate wage, is not in the cards. The quiet life will not be ours. The ramifications of the Affordable Care Act will make corporate pharmacy a veritable woodchipper for our licenses earned through sweat & treasure. See this article:

http://www.thecandidpharmacist.com/2013/03/the-unaffordable-care-act-end-of.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PharmacyWarrior+%28PHARMACY+WARRIOR%29

Also our lives will be soon occuppied with the stress of "interesting" events. Tomorrow, the 22nd of March, 2013 marks the end of a cycle. Something will happen that may not be readily apparent, but we will look back upon and say "that's when things changed".

This was all going on long before Obamacare. 🙄 I was in retail pharmacy when Medicare Part D(isaster) was announced, around 2001, and there was a LOT of press about how pharmacists were almost universally opposed to it. One of my co-workers, who had 20 years on me and also had his own store for a while, summed it up this way: "When that goes online, you will find out just how free it is." And he was right.
 
ATTENTION: ALL PHARMACISTS & STUDENTS

The life we had planned, a fulfilling career with steady employment & adequate wage, is not in the cards. The quiet life will not be ours. The ramifications of the Affordable Care Act will make corporate pharmacy a veritable woodchipper for our licenses earned through sweat & treasure. See this article:

http://www.thecandidpharmacist.com/2013/03/the-unaffordable-care-act-end-of.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+PharmacyWarrior+%28PHARMACY+WARRIOR%29

Also our lives will be soon occuppied with the stress of "interesting" events. Tomorrow, the 22nd of March, 2013 marks the end of a cycle. Something will happen that may not be readily apparent, but we will look back upon and say "that's when things changed".

Come on--- that link is laughable. We're all dead because Medicare doesn't want to reimburse via Fee for Service anymore? The ACO's are about hospitals anyway. If we didn't get Obamacare we were going to get single payer. So pick your poison.
 
I have zero regrets about going into pharmacy. It is an awesome career and I love it. I know that the market has tightened up but honestly, how long did you expect there to be 20k signing bonuses? It stinks not to be in demand as much but I still feel as though I could get a new job relatively easily. I spoke with a class of 2013 grad and she said most people had jobs lined up by thanksgiving. Maybe it's regional as well.
 
I have zero regrets about going into pharmacy. It is an awesome career and I love it. I know that the market has tightened up but honestly, how long did you expect there to be 20k signing bonuses? It stinks not to be in demand as much but I still feel as though I could get a new job relatively easily. I spoke with a class of 2013 grad and she said most people had jobs lined up by thanksgiving. Maybe it's regional as well.

I have to say, as pessimistic as I am, this is true. I had (have) a job lined up well before I graduate in May. I didn't have any experience through school (I have a family and got an MBA too). I live in a town with a pharmacy school. It's also on the east coast. It's with a retail chain but it pays the vaunted 6 figures. I will be a floater at first. I don't think I get benefits, but I suppose I'll try to make the best of it.
 
I have zero regrets about going into pharmacy. It is an awesome career and I love it. I know that the market has tightened up but honestly, how long did you expect there to be 20k signing bonuses? It stinks not to be in demand as much but I still feel as though I could get a new job relatively easily. I spoke with a class of 2013 grad and she said most people had jobs lined up by thanksgiving. Maybe it's regional as well.

Are you still in retail? I thought I remembered you saying how much you hated it and was just curious if you were able to land something better for yourself? 🙂
 
was in retail now in hospital again, staff job. I hated everything at that time because I was really depressed. Once I got the depression under control my life started seeming a lot better. I have had ****ty jobs but the one I have now is great. Even with my struggles, I stil would do it all over again. I am as pessismistic as they come too1
 
Thank you everyone for your responses! I feel very reassured. I'm happy to announce I will be attending pharmacy school starting fall 2013 😀
 
I'm happy you were able to find something better, nafcillin! 🙂
 
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I have zero regrets about going into pharmacy. It is an awesome career and I love it. I know that the market has tightened up but honestly, how long did you expect there to be 20k signing bonuses? It stinks not to be in demand as much but I still feel as though I could get a new job relatively easily. I spoke with a class of 2013 grad and she said most people had jobs lined up by thanksgiving. Maybe it's regional as well.

I just got called to interview with Wags in my area. They called right after I started working part time for Target. Plus, I just accepted a PRN position with a government funded health center. I got that one by networking and staying in touch with the pharmacist who was my preceptor during rotations. I see lots of posts about no jobs, but that's not consistent with what I'm experiencing in my area. And this is a city. Not rural.
 
I just got called to interview with Wags in my area. They called right after I started working part time for Target. Plus, I just accepted a PRN position with a government funded health center. I got that one by networking and staying in touch with the pharmacist who was my preceptor during rotations. I see lots of posts about no jobs, but that's not consistent with what I'm experiencing in my area. And this is a city. Not rural.

There are cities in Kentucky? I kid I kid
 
I just got called to interview with Wags in my area. They called right after I started working part time for Target. Plus, I just accepted a PRN position with a government funded health center. I got that one by networking and staying in touch with the pharmacist who was my preceptor during rotations. I see lots of posts about no jobs, but that's not consistent with what I'm experiencing in my area. And this is a city. Not rural.

Yeah but they are all prn positions?
 
Hmm I always thought you are working at the pharmacy where you did your residency doing MTM?
 
You were warned about the job market. Aren't you the person who was worried about moving away from their parents? You might just end up having to move for work anyways.

These new pharmacy schools need to quit putting money first and look at the job market. The word is going to get out sooner or later that there are no jobs, and fewer people are going to enroll.
I am beginning to think of schools as just money-making schemes. They will do anything to keep you even if you make low grades so they can get your $$$$. They don't care if you find any work afterwards.
 
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Doubt it. With easy access to federal student loans, these for-profit schools are not going to have a problem enrolling students. Admissions standards will drop further.
 
I have zero regrets about going into pharmacy. It is an awesome career and I love it. I know that the market has tightened up but honestly, how long did you expect there to be 20k signing bonuses? It stinks not to be in demand as much but I still feel as though I could get a new job relatively easily. I spoke with a class of 2013 grad and she said most people had jobs lined up by thanksgiving. Maybe it's regional as well.

I have zero regrets about going into pharmacy too, primarily because the high salary enabled me to retire early. 😎

When I graduated, employers came to us. The sign-on bonuses didn't come along until right before the glut started. The only people in my class who didn't have a job upon graduation were those who were waiting to see where their SO got a job, with one exception and she had serious personality issues. If you're wondering if she was the one who would pull a yo-yo out during interviews and play with it, you're right. Her sister and BIL are pharmacists, and founded their own company in part so she could have a job. 😱
 
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