Secondary essays (and rant - clickbait)

[honeybee87]

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So how "polished" do secondaries have to be? I know there's some adcoms on here who state that it needs to be just as good as the primary, but realistically that's just not possible for most students. That being said, I haven't made any erroneous spelling or grammar mistakes, but as I look back to re-use some of my prompts, I see areas that could be improved (I use "provide" twice in the same sentence and could have used a different word instead). Are these areas that adcoms scrutinize? I feel like as an adcom who has to go through a lot of secondaries, they would be more focused on content rather than a few small blemishes on the secondary (not errors, just blemishes that could be improved), especially when everything else is in order like grades, mcat, and EC.

RANT: The more I'm exposed to the medical school application process, the more I feel that SDN explodes/exaggerates things way out of context. An example is an MD letter. A large chunk of schools I have applied for recommend MD letters, but based off of the advice I've seen on SDN about how worthless they are, I failed to ask any of the MDs I work with as a scribe. Another is applying within 2 weeks and the mentality that it is looked down upon if you don't (maybe it's not as good as someone applying immediately, but the consensus makes it appear that I would actually get negative points if I apply within a month instead of 2 weeks. That's just crazy and seems unreasonable). I do think that SDN is a good way to better yourself as an applicant though based off of the level of unrealism on here, it motivated me to do a lot of extra stuff that I otherwise would not have done which has benefited my application.

Sorry for the rant, maybe this is one way people actually reply to my threads though instead of view them and ignore.

 

[mmchick]

There’s a fair amount of cognitive dissonance that goes on with applicants during this process.. somehow weakness is okay given the many other strengths. That is a gamble that you must be willing to take. I wouldn’t guess it’s “okay” to have a subpar secondary. Why would they bother sending them and reading them if they’re expecting to get back a bunch of unedited, unpolished responses. Do your best. If you don’t, be honest about that to yourself.

SDN is a resource amongst the many that you’re supposed to utilize. Namely, premed advisors, academic mentors, supervisors, peers, medical students... these should all come first in your order of weighted consideration, certainly not an anonymous message board in which anyone can say anything and your competition exists. The only person to blame is yourself if you only use SDN to guide your life that no one on here knows aside from the info you give us.

 

[Toutie]

Your secondaries should more or less match the writing quality and style of your personal statement. A few applicants have had a professional write their PS and then when they write their own secondaries it is quite obvious they were written by different people. Not a good look.

 

[honeybee87]

There’s a fair amount of cognitive dissonance that goes on with applicants during this process.. somehow weakness is okay given the many other strengths. That is a gamble that you must be willing to take. I wouldn’t guess it’s “okay” to have a subpar secondary. Why would they bother sending them and reading them if they’re expecting to get back a bunch of unedited, unpolished responses. Do your best. If you don’t, be honest about that to yourself.

SDN is a resource amongst the many that you’re supposed to utilize. Namely, premed advisors, academic mentors, supervisors, peers, medical students... these should all come first in your order of weighted consideration, certainly not an anonymous message board in which anyone can say anything and your competition exists. The only person to blame is yourself if you only use SDN to guide your life that no one on here knows aside from the info you give us.

you know what’s funny? SDN often downplays premed advisors based on the terrible advice they give. And I did my best to edit and revise it. But you tell me this, OK? How long did you spend editing/revising your primary? Now, how long, on average, have you spent editing/revising your secondaries?

To give you an idea, I spent 3 months on my primary. Now based off of the consensus that you should submit secondaries within 2 weeks, that only gives you 2 weeks max to submit one secondary, and I have 30! Now you tell me, how on earth will they be the same quality? You talk about psychology, so tell me, how can anyone be confident in their secondaries knowing that they will be scrutinized with the same lens as the primary?

 

[Toutie]

Maybe you should log off SDN and spend your time writing your secondaries instead.

 

[honeybee87]

Maybe you should log off SDN and spend your time writing your secondaries instead.

Can’t, I’m far too excited that I actually got 2 replies for my post! This is a new record for me! Maybe I should do rants more often

 

[Detailfanatic]

For whatever it’s worth, I submitted my primary the first day possible but submitted all secondaries between sept 28and oct 5th. I got 4 interviews and 4 acceptances. It probably is a bit detrimental for some schools but I think overall you will be ok as long as you have a good overall app. Kinda like applying late. You don’t get accepted because you applied early. You get accepted because you have a good app

 

[993444]

Your secondaries should more or less match the writing quality and style of your personal statement. A few applicants have had a professional write their PS and then when they write their own secondaries it is quite obvious they were written by different people. Not a good look.

But some people spend months writing a personal statement but only a couple hours writing their secondaries. So a discrepancy like that could just be organic.

 

[honeybee87]

But some people spend months writing a personal statement but only a couple hours writing their secondaries. So a discrepancy like that could just be organic.

EXACTLY MY POINT

 

[honeybee87]

3. Here is my rant. Having UG degrees in both biochem and poly sci/sociology, I always surprised that the best and brightest premed/science majorscant manage to outline and polish a 2-3 page essay in a few hours. Except for some of the more “intense” secondaries such as Duke and NEOMED, no secondary should take you more than 4-6 hours in total from first read to final polish.

But that sounds very unlike the advice you give. You are the one who recommends scrutinizing every detail of the app to make sure it is flawless, and to get other opinions as well. That’s kinda hard to do in 4 hours

 

[993444]

But that sounds very unlike the advice you give. You are the one who recommends scrutinizing every detail of the app to make sure it is flawless, and to get other opinions as well. That’s kinda hard to do in 4 hours

We don't speak that way to gonnif.

 

[Cornfed101]

But that sounds very unlike the advice you give. You are the one who recommends scrutinizing every detail of the app to make sure it is flawless, and to get other opinions as well. That’s kinda hard to do in 4 hours

But it's really not... most secondaries are just a paragraph or two long. Also, if you are using SDN you better be pre-writing your secondaries. Best decision of the cycle.

 

[honeybee87]

Also, if you are using SDN you better be pre-writing your secondaries. Best decision of the cycle.

Yeh tell me about it. Maybe that’s why adcoms are expecting polished secondaries to the level of the primary.

And I agree with you, it’s not hard writing the secondaries. The problem I’m having is more self doubt, I feel like I made a mistake becuase I didn’t have as much time double, triple, ...., one hundred times checking it.
(And yes I could use a Xanax rn)

 

[Moko]

My thoughts, which echo what others have said:
- the Primary and Secondary applications should appear to be written by the same person
- You are correct that neither application should contain spelling or grammar mistakes. It should not take that long to proofread your work though, especially when secondary answers are usually like a paragraph or two.
- Secondary questions tend to be shorter, more direct and straight-forward than the primary application, so they really shouldn't take as long to answer. If someone asked you one of these secondary questions in an interview, you would be expected to give an intelligible response back within a reasonable time-frame. The personal statement, on the other hand, takes much longer to write because it is more abstract and requires more thought to choose and pare down activities to create a cohesive story.
- If you treat secondaries as a full-time job, you should be able to knock out several secondaries per week on average.
- Shadowing letters from MDs are generally pointless and generic. If a school specifically requests it though, then of course, follow their instructions and submit one.
- Most posts I've seen recently have specifically told people that there is no arbitrary 2 week rule. I'm pretty sure I copy-and-pasted something similar in at least two different threads. There are some schools that recommend a turnaround time of less than two weeks, and in those cases, I would follow their instructions and prioritize their secondary.

My response here is a bit shy of a typical secondary essay. It did not take that long to write.

 

[honeybee87]

We don't speak that way to gonnif.

Kiss (they don’t have a donkey)

 

[907914]

Here is my rant. Having UG degrees in both biochem and poly sci/sociology, I always surprised that the best and brightest premed/science majorscant manage to outline and polish a 2-3 page essay in a few hours. Except for some of the more “intense” secondaries such as Duke and NEOMED, no secondary should take you more than 4-6 hours in total from first read to final polish.

After going through this process, I am going to mirror this opinion. I spent like 9 months on my PS and WA. But after going through the entire Primary application, all of the introspection I needed was done. I picked up an editing buddy, we write secondaries, exchange just before submission, then send them on their way after edits. Average turnaround time (except Duke) has been around 6 hours.

 

[Cornfed101]

Yeh tell me about it. Maybe that’s why adcoms are expecting polished secondaries to the level of the primary.

And I agree with you, it’s not hard writing the secondaries. The problem I’m having is more self doubt, I feel like I made a mistake becuase I didn’t have as much time double, triple, ...., one hundred times checking it.
(And yes I could use a Xanax rn)

Also, get Grammarly

 

[honeybee87]

Also, get Grammarly

Yep, already did. I hate their new update, every sentence is underlined in blue for me now

 

[907914]

Yep, already did. I hate their new update, every sentence is underlined in blue for me now

Maybe the update isn’t the problem 😉

 

[honeybee87]

My thoughts, which echo what others have said:
- the Primary and Secondary applications should appear to be written by the same person
- You are correct that neither application should contain spelling or grammar mistakes. It should not take that long to proofread your work though, especially when secondary answers are usually like a paragraph or two.
- Secondary questions tend to be shorter, more direct and straight-forward than the primary application, so they really shouldn't take as long to answer. If someone asked you one of these secondary questions in an interview, you would be expected to give an intelligible response back within a reasonable time-frame. The personal statement, on the other hand, takes much longer to write because it is more abstract and requires more thought to choose and pare down activities to create a cohesive story.
- If you treat secondaries as a full-time job, you should be able to knock out several secondaries per week on average.
- Shadowing letters from MDs are generally pointless and generic. If a school specifically requests it though, then of course, follow their instructions and submit one.
- Most posts I've seen recently have specifically told people that there is no arbitrary 2 week rule. I'm pretty sure I copy-and-pasted something similar in at least two different threads. There are some schools that recommend a turnaround time of less than two weeks, and in those cases, I would follow their instructions and prioritize their secondary.

My response here is a bit shy of a typical secondary essay. It did not take that long to write.

How does it look if I answer the prompt, with no spelling or grammar errors, but my word choice isn’t the best? For example “during this cycle, I will be working to gain more clinical experience by working as XXXXX.” I used working twice there and could have used another word. That’s the type of mistakes I’m making, nothing big. Is this a big deal, or am I just being neurotic

 

[honeybee87]

And is it just me, or is SDN more dead this cycle? I remember last cycle when someone made a post there were like comments within 10 minutes and each post had at least 10 or so

 

[honeybee87]

Maybe the update isn’t the problem 😉

Meme lord I will tell you the problem: you have not brought back the usurper of Asgard.

 

[honeybee87]

What I am saying that you should go over it with a fine tooth comb but as the best and brightest premeds you should able to do that in 4-6 hours in 2-3 hours one night with 2-3 the next. Hence why it was a rant.

I see. That’s pretty much the strategy I’m using now, I finish it late at night, and when I go to submit it the next morning, I end up editing for another hour.

 

[907914]

Meme lord I will tell you the problem: you have not brought back the usurper of Asgard.

Hellmo>>>>>Thorzma

 

[Moko]

How does it look if I answer the prompt, with no spelling or grammar errors, but my word choice isn’t the best? For example “during this cycle, I will be working to gain more clinical experience by working as XXXXX.” I used working twice there and could have used another word. That’s the type of mistakes I’m making, nothing big. Is this a big deal, or am I just being neurotic

"During my gap year, I will be working at *** as a ***, with the goal of *** / because of *** / etc". Repeating words is fine as long as it's not too obvious. But these are things that should be easily caught and corrected during the proofreading process. Still should not take more than several hours to complete a secondary, especially after you've gone through dozen(s) of these types of questions.

 

[honeybee87]

"During my gap year, I will be working at *** as a ***, with the goal of *** / because of *** / etc". Repeating words is fine as long as it's not too obvious. But these are things that should be easily caught and corrected during the proofreading process. Still should not take more than several hours to complete a secondary, especially after you've gone through dozen(s) of these types of questions.

Thank you for the advice. I already submitted that secondary so was just wondering how it would look from an adcoms perspective

 

[993444]

Oh please, with 3 ex-wives and 4 kids (or is it 4 ex-wives and 3 kids) I’ve been spoken to every way possible

I worry about you, gonnif

 

[JustAUser]

I think y'all would really enjoy these secondary prompts

Please input all of your classes for the eighth time on this barely navigable website that our VP's son helped design (great job Trevor)

Please use the space below to rewrite your personal statement but make sure to mention our school by name this time around

Use the following space to write a paragraph on that speeding ticket you got 4 years ago. Was the ticket dismissed? How fast were you going? Were you driving to an underserved clinic? Why not?

Explain a time you failed. Make sure it's a cool made up failure not a real lame one

60 years ago our school didn't admit jews or black people. Please highlight the unique background you have to offer our traditionally diverse and inclusive educational environment.

Please reflect on a time when you were very, very humble.

Please write an essay describing the profound impact you plan to have on medicine 2 years after your residency

Why do you want to be a DO? Please lie

Write an autobiography or something, idk. 6000 characters.

Please input your parents' information below. (Hint: we're looking for either two dads or none at all here guys)

Please consider the space below as an opportunity to extoll your long held beliefs in the virtues of a Jesuit education

Servant Leadership™ is a Core Value™ and one of the Seven Noble Attributes™ we deem essential for our students to possess. Referring to our Diverse Strategy of Inclusive Excellence™, choose seven of our Six Synergy Strategies™ and describe how you would use them to guide your AscensionBuddies™ into ZonePlane 5™.

If you are taking a gap year between college and medical school, please use the following space to justify the continual burden you place on your family

Describe yourself 40 years from now. Are you married? Do you regret it?

What's your theme song (we like to have fun here)

Are you Asian? Please explain.

Please use the space below to shamelessly exploit your grandmother's tortuous struggle with breast cancer as a literary device. Do you think she would be proud?

Please use the following space to overly dramatize a relatively small aspect of your life experience and inflate it to ridiculous proportions as the sole drive behind your desire to pursue medicine

Please use the following space to make up some familial hardships as an excuse for your poor freshman year grades

Please use the following space to make up an admirable hobby that has nothing to do with your actual interests

Have you ever gone through a personal hardship? Make sure not to implicate yourself in any mental illnesses

Please use the following space to fabricate an interest in rural medicine

Source

 

[honeybee87]

I think y'all would enjoy these secondary prompts

Source

That’s hilarious!!!!!!!!

 

[honeybee87]

"During my gap year, I will be working at *** as a ***, with the goal of *** / because of *** / etc". Repeating words is fine as long as it's not too obvious. But these are things that should be easily caught and corrected during the proofreading process. Still should not take more than several hours to complete a secondary, especially after you've gone through dozen(s) of these types of questions.

Just want to clarify, that “mistake” I made by using that sentence, would that be a reason to get rejected? The thing is when I read it in my head (and out loud) it didn’t sound weird or catch my attention

 

[JPmoleymole]

And is it just me, or is SDN more dead this cycle? I remember last cycle when someone made a post there were like comments within 10 minutes and each post had at least 10 or so

SDN will continue to decline since the format on reddit is a lot better.The biggest advantage of SDN is having school specific threads and if you need super specific advice for an adcom, it’s easier to find on SDN

 

[honeybee87]

And how did know the prompt for the primary? You looked it up. Why didnt you start looking up secondaries last January? Sorry I am ranting again

Gonnif this was a thread made by me for ME to rant!!! If you want to rant make your own thread!!!! Loool jk. Seriously though I’m not going to make any excuses but I barely had time to write my primary while I was in school/working.

 

[deleted987519]

I think y'all would really enjoy these secondary prompts


Source

"Are you Asian? Please explain." LMFAO

 

[honeybee87]

SDN will continue to decline since the format on reddit is a lot better.The biggest advantage of SDN is having school specific threads and if you need super specific advice for an adcom, it’s easier to find on SDN

Also, the advice on reddit is a lot different as well. There seems to be more medical students in the premed thread, and while I am there, they often give advice that they had blatant mistakes on their secondary yet still received multiple II and acceptances. And I’m here worrying about word choices as a result of the perfection attitude on SDN smh...

 

[907914]

SDN will continue to decline since the format on reddit is a lot better.The biggest advantage of SDN is having school specific threads and if you need super specific advice for an adcom, it’s easier to find on SDN

Really? I absolutely hate reddit...do more people actually use it than SDN?

 

[PA_dud3]

"Please use the following space to fabricate an interest in rural medicine"

 

[907914]

Also, the advice on reddit is a lot different as well. There seems to be more medical students in the premed thread, and while I am there, they often give advice that they had blatant mistakes on their secondary yet still received multiple II and acceptances. And I’m here worrying about word choices as a result of the perfection attitude on SDN smh...

SDN is a great place for high stats and gunners to bask in our own egos. Reddit is a great resource for the commoner to not feel bad about their unworthiness.

 

[993444]

I'm alright
Nobody worry 'bout me
Why you got to gimme a fight?
Can't you just let it be?

My bad dawg
I'll let ya take ya own course
Im'ma go for a jog
Before gettin' back on the secondary writin' horse

Jk I'm not going for a jog. Or writing secondaries. I'm watching Netflix.

 

[honeybee87]

SDN is a great place for high stats and gunners to bask in our own egos. Reddit is a great resource for the commoner to not feel bad about their unworthiness /s.

Yeh and people like you make people like me do extra work cuz we feel like we have no chance unless we do X, Y, and Z, which ultimately helps us improve our app

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

"Please use the following space to overly dramatize a relatively small aspect of your life experience and inflate it to ridiculous proportions as the sole drive behind your desire to pursue medicine"

My adversity/challenge essay.
Laughing but really crying on the inside at how true this is...

 

[PA_dud3]

My bad dawg
I'll let ya take ya own course
Im'ma go for a jog
Before gettin' back on the secondary writin' horse

Jk I'm not going for a jog. Or writing secondaries. I'm watching Netflix.

When no one catches that Kenny Loggins reference

 

[907914]

Yeh and people like you make people like me do extra work cuz we feel like we have no chance unless we do X, Y, and Z, which ultimately helps us improve our app

I would love to see what the acceptance rates are of predominantly SDN users versus predominantly Reddit users.

 

[907914]

When no one catches that Kenny Loggins reference

Anybody else see S2 E4 of Final Space last night?

 

[993444]

When no one catches that Kenny Loggins reference

I knew that. I just don't plagiarize songs 🙄

 

[PA_dud3]

I knew that. I just don't plagiarize songs 🙄

"HELP! IA for plagiarizing hit song! Is Caribbean my only option?!?"

/s

 

[honeybee87]

I would love to see what the acceptance rates are of predominantly SDN users versus predominantly Reddit users.

I’m not sure but that’s why you don’t take anyone’s advice unless they say they’re an MD student. And there’s more MD students on the premed thread and most of them laugh at SDN for how hard they make it sound to get into med school

AGAIN, not tryna bash SDN. The perfectionist culture just got too much for me today

 

[deleted987519]

I’m not sure but that’s why you don’t take anyone’s advice unless they say they’re an MD student. And there’s more MD students on the premed thread and most of them laugh at SDN for how hard they make it sound to get into med school

I feel an incoming from Gonnif about the breakdown of applicants that get multiple acceptances, one acceptance, etc.

 

[993444]

Here's another fun one:

"Please describe what specialty in medicine you would like to go into despite the fact that you'll probably change your mind about 6578493875637 times"

 

[PA_dud3]

Here's another fun one:

"Please describe what specialty in medicine you would like to go into despite the fact that you'll probably change your mind about 6578493875637 times"

The Pre-Med subreddit has some funny memes about that every now and then lol

 

[907914]

I’m not sure but that’s why you don’t take anyone’s advice unless they say they’re an MD student. And there’s more MD students on the premed thread and most of them laugh at SDN for how hard they make it sound to get into med school

You are more likely not to get in than to get in if you are an applicant in general, but the SDN minimum criteria of 3.6 and 510...well, you have at least like a 66% chance of acceptance.

It really isn’t THAT hard to get in to medical school. Most applicants are just woefully underprepared.