See example AMCAS applications from HMS students

[OptoDraft]

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Hi SDN,

Would you like to see examples of AMCAS applications from current Harvard Medical School students? I am considering putting together such a database (this year) to share with premedical students, but I am wondering if it is worth pursuing. Since providing this service would take a considerable amount of time, effort, and money, there would be a fee ($20-50) to access this service. Is that reasonable? If so, how should I prevent people from torrenting the applications? Any general thoughts?

Thanks,

OD

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Are the actual HMS students ok with this?

 

[OptoDraft]

Are the actual HMS students ok with this?

It depends on how their application is presented. Many are comfortable sharing restricted parts of the application or anonymized whole applications.

 

[md-2020]

Not to be a Debbie Downer but I can't imagine many people paying for this. Maybe if it was free, but the marketability of your service just isn't sufficient.

 

[piii]

there is abundant data on mdapplicants.com that would render this obsolete.

 

[justadream]

The poll says it all.

 

[OptoDraft]

there is abundant data on mdapplicants.com that would render this obsolete.

MDapplicants provides a snap shot of an individual's GPA, MCAT, and some activities, but not their full application. On the other hand, I am describing providing access to complete applications from confirmed HMS students. Would that be obsolete?

 

[Planes2Doc]

HMS students probably have a lot of things that are either completely unattainable (or beyond your control), or things that would end up destroying your application if you tried (picking up too many ECs). Everyone works to the best of their abilities, and that's that. That's why medical schools range from Caribbean to Harvard Medical School, and everything in between.

 

[Lannister]

No that would just make me feel depressed and inferior.

 

[piii]

MDapplicants provides a snap shot of an individual's GPA, MCAT, and some activities, but not their full application. On the other hand, I am describing providing access to complete applications from confirmed HMS students. Would that be obsolete?

Think about it. 20,000 individuals get into med school each year. And there are certainly thousands of more qualified applicants that don't get in. None of them need to see some random HMS students application to get in. They've been getting into med school for decades without this service. Why would they need it now? There's info free info EVERYWHERE on the web: mdapplicants, students and physicians on SDN and Reddit giving free advice. With some research and a little common sense, know how to build your app is simple.

The only people who will pay for this are saps and plagiarizers.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

No that would just make me feel depressed and inferior.

Why? You work at an ice cream shop. That's easily one of the best ECs out there!

 

[OptoDraft]

HMS students probably have a lot of things that are either completely unattainable (or beyond your control), or things that would end up destroying your application if you tried (picking up too many ECs). Everyone works to the best of their abilities, and that's that. That's why medical schools range from Caribbean to Harvard Medical School, and everything in between.

Your point is well taken Planes2Doc. However, with a well thought out strategy, anyone with the potential to get into the Caribbean medical schools can also get into HMS.

Perhaps there is a difference in wealth or intelligence, but given a baseline level of ability (i.e. you're capable of getting into the Caribbean medical school) there is nothing but mentorship and determination holding one back from getting into HMS. If these HMS applications become available, I hope to show you that HMS students are human, and you can likewise get into your dream medical school.

 

[md-2020]

Your point is well taken Planes2Doc. However, with a well thought out strategy, anyone with the potential to get into the Caribbean medical schools can also get into HMS.

Perhaps there is a difference in wealth or intelligence, but given a baseline level of ability (i.e. you're capable of getting into the Caribbean medical school) there is nothing but mentorship and determination holding one back from getting into HMS. If these HMS applications become available, I hope to show you that HMS students are human, and you can likewise get into your dream medical school.

If you're not going to listen to the overwhelming lack of reception to this thread, go ahead and make the site. Just don't be surprised when literally no one signs up.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Your point is well taken Planes2Doc. However, with a well thought out strategy, anyone with the potential to get into the Caribbean medical schools can also get into HMS.

Perhaps there is a difference in wealth or intelligence, but given a baseline level of ability (i.e. you're capable of getting into the Caribbean medical school) there is nothing but mentorship and determination holding one back from getting into HMS. If these HMS applications become available, I hope to show you that HMS students are human, and you can likewise get into your dream medical school.

😵😵😵😵😵😵😵

This is simply ludicrous...

 

[piii]

Your point is well taken Planes2Doc. However, with a well thought out strategy, anyone with the potential to get into the Caribbean medical schools can also get into HMS.

Perhaps there is a difference in wealth or intelligence, but given a baseline level of ability (i.e. you're capable of getting into the Caribbean medical school) there is nothing but mentorship and determination holding one back from getting into HMS. If these HMS applications become available, I hope to show you that HMS students are human, and you can likewise get into your dream medical school.

Bold statement. There are a lot of people that go to carib that don't have the ability to get the academic and testing scores that a top tier med student may have. This is why those schools have such high attrition rates.

 

[TBV]

Dumb idea. Nobody cares what HMS students do.

 

[OptoDraft]

Think about it. 20,000 individuals get into med school each year. And there are certainly thousands of more qualified applicants that don't get in. None of them need to see some random HMS students application to get in. They've been getting into med school for decades without this service. Why would they need it now? There's info free info EVERYWHERE on the web: mdapplicants, students and physicians on SDN and Reddit giving free advice. With some research and a little common sense, know how to build your app is simple.

The only people who will pay for this are saps and plagiarizers.

Piii, thank you for your insightful comments. First, I would like to clarify that I mean you can see 50+ HMS students full applications -- a large sample size, increasing the chances you will share similar activities and be able to discuss them intelligently. Second, although people have been getting into medical school without this, there is a HUGE inequality. If you have friends in medical school, especially at great medical schools, you have an advantage. The advantage ranges from mentoring to seeing examples of their application. Providing the best application examples online in full form will reduce this inequality. Lastly, while free advice is available almost anywhere, it is not always advisable to base your future on free advice.

 

[Mwooster]

"They be like oh that Ivy, that's hella tight, I'm like, yo, that's overhyped for an MD"

 

[Lannister]

Why? You work at an ice cream shop. That's easily one of the best ECs out there!

Hahaha it is awesome, very true. I didn't put it on my apps tho cuz I didn't start till August. But I shall include it in my letter of intent/update letter.

 

[spiffysteve]

Lastly, while free advice is available almost anywhere, it is not always advisable to base your future on free advice.

I would argue that it's not always advisable to base your future on advice that costs $20. The fact that it's not free doesn't make it higher quality.

 

[piii]

Piii, thank you for your insightful comments. First, I would like to clarify that I mean you can see 50+ HMS students full applications -- a large sample size, increasing the chances you will share similar activities and be able to discuss them intelligently. Second, although people have been getting into medical school without this, there is a HUGE inequality. If you have friends in medical school, especially at great medical schools, you have an advantage. The advantage ranges from mentoring to seeing examples of their application. Providing the best application examples online in full form will reduce this inequality. Lastly, while free advice is available almost anywhere, it is not always advisable to base your future on free advice.

If you're really trying to bridge the gap of inequality, lowering the price will make this more accessible to all the low income applicants.

And basing your app off free advice isn't always advisable, sure, but that's why I said common sense is needed as well.

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Piii, thank you for your insightful comments. First, I would like to clarify that I mean you can see 50+ HMS students full applications -- a large sample size, increasing the chances you will share similar activities and be able to discuss them intelligently. Second, although people have been getting into medical school without this, there is a HUGE inequality. If you have friends in medical school, especially at great medical schools, you have an advantage. The advantage ranges from mentoring to seeing examples of their application. Providing the best application examples online in full form will reduce this inequality. Lastly, while free advice is available almost anywhere, it is not always advisable to base your future on free advice.

Before you mentioned restricted snapshots and now you are saying full applications.
Anyways, I think this will be more helpful for high school students or college freshman as it may give them an idea of ECs to get involved in that they might not have otherwise known about. I don't think it will hold much value for those about to apply this cycle unless your aim is to provide personal statements or AMCAS sections that show exemplary writing.

 

[OptoDraft]

Thus far most comments have come from medical students or premedical students already accepted to medical school. This service is for premedical students who have not yet applied to medical school. What do premedical students think?

 

[AvacadosAtLaw]

I'm a premed student who will be applying this summer and I would never pay 50$ for this. If it was free I would maybe look at it, but I don't see how it would be very helpful.

 

[musicalfeet]

This would probably be more useful if it expanded outside the scope of HMS...also, only if you have a way to combat selection bias. The only reason why I don't find mdapps very reliable is because of self-selection; so if you were able to do that + lower the price, I could see people buying into it.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

If these HMS applications become available, I hope to show you that HMS students are human, and you can likewise get into your dream medical school.

I feel like this service would only be helpful if you're already under the impression that HMS students are something other than human... Sure, there's a tendency among some premeds to idolize HMS students, which is kind of ridiculous because it's obvious to me that HMS students are not superheroes; they're students who've done very well academically and have had the privilege to participate in prestigious/unique extracurricular activities. Impressive? Sure. But worthy of idolatry? Not at all. And while HMS may be the perfect program for some, it's certainly not for everyone. Thankfully, for the rest of us we don't need HMS-level stats or ECs to become doctors.

Asking someone to pay $$$ for you to tell them this is absurd.

 

[22031 Alum]

I got into Harvard- though I chose to go elsewhere- and I give out advice here for free. As do many others who have "been there, done that." So I don't think this type of thing is necessary. However, there are lots of unnecessary, borderline predatory services out there catering to neurotic pre-meds. If the market is there for you, who are we to stop you?? We'll just tell anyone who asks that they don't need it.

 

[thrudheim]

The application process was expensive enough. I would never have shelled out an extra fifty bucks on something that wasn't necessary to my own success as an applicant.

 

[aalamruad]

Thus far most comments have come from medical students or premedical students already accepted to medical school. This service is for premedical students who have not yet applied to medical school. What do premedical students think?

Pre-med here, applying this summer. Certainly would not pay for this.

Also, just out of curiosity, how do you have access to 50 full HMS student applications? And why are you under the impression that HMS students are in any way different than other top tier med school students?

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Your point is well taken Planes2Doc. However, with a well thought out strategy, anyone with the potential to get into the Caribbean medical schools can also get into HMS.

Perhaps there is a difference in wealth or intelligence, but given a baseline level of ability (i.e. you're capable of getting into the Caribbean medical school) there is nothing but mentorship and determination holding one back from getting into HMS. If these HMS applications become available, I hope to show you that HMS students are human, and you can likewise get into your dream medical school.

Please report back with how many Caribbean applicants you helped get into Harvard by providing these amcas application snapshots

 

[efle]

Is that reasonable?

No.

If so, how should I prevent people from torrenting the applications?

You couldn't. Even if you had the resources to make it extremely secure digitally, there is nothing you could do to stop people from taking photos and uploading them.

Any general thoughts?

You shouldn't do it.

 

[MaxPlancker]

Well it would be an interesting resource to get somewhat of a limited look into the effect/value of things that may appear on an application but other than that, seeing the applications will probably discourage 99% of people lol.

 

[Lucca]

Thus far most comments have come from medical students or premedical students already accepted to medical school. This service is for premedical students who have not yet applied to medical school. What do premedical students think?

Pre-med here. This service is worthless to anyone sharp enough to look for information on their own and able to put together an app. For all of the other people you are just preying on the neurotic with too much money in their pockets. If the latter is your goal I recommend starting an MCAT prep company.

 

[justadream]

Your point is well taken Planes2Doc. However, with a well thought out strategy, anyone with the potential to get into the Caribbean medical schools can also get into HMS.

Perhaps there is a difference in wealth or intelligence, but given a baseline level of ability (i.e. you're capable of getting into the Caribbean medical school) there is nothing but mentorship and determination holding one back from getting into HMS. If these HMS applications become available, I hope to show you that HMS students are human, and you can likewise get into your dream medical school.

This could not be more wrong.

You think everyone who scores a 40th percentile on the MCAT is capable of getting 95th percentile (and higher) MCATs just through "mentorship and determination"?

And even if you have a great MCAT, multiple pubs, interview well, have tons of leadership, have tons of service, there is STILL a great chance you will not get into HMS (source: go look at MDApps of people who have all this and can't get in*).

If anything, I think this is more of a way for HMS students to brag about their own applications/accomplishments.


*Or go look at the students at peer schools like Yale, Hopkins, Stanford, UCSF (which, let's just be honest here, are filled with tons of HMS-rejects). Clearly these HMS-rejects had solid applications since they are going to their respective schools but were simply unable to get into HMS. And for most of these students, it was not because of a lack of mentorship or determination.

 

[whatever5]

A much more valuable resource would be one that collects AMCAS data for students that were accepted at all schools and reporting trends on selection factors (ie this school has a bias towards non trads, this school prefers high GPA, this school loves athletes, this one loves students who speak multiple languages, this school appears to mostly balance its class among all groups, etc etc). Of course, this information is already available for those willing to dig but having a primary source would be much more helpful imho.

I know premeds can come off as a neurotic bunch, but most people I know are realistic in that they would just be happy getting in and the gunning for Harvard mentality is much less prevalent.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

*Or go look at the students at peer schools like Yale, Hopkins, Stanford, UCSF (which, let's just be honest here, are filled with tons of HMS-rejects). Clearly these HMS-rejects had solid applications since they are going to their respective schools but were simply unable to get into HMS. And for most of these students, it was not because of a lack of mentorship or determination.

On the flipside, HMS is probably loaded with Yale, Hopkins, Stanford, Penn, and UCSF rejects, who actually preferred one (or more) of the aforementioned schools over Harvard 😉

 

[flyingeagle]

I don't think it's a bad idea, I actually used a similar service when applying to college (the website WeGotIn, which had Ivy league applications. I cannot find it anymore which is strange though) and it was very valuable. And it's good not only for people applying to medical school, but also for medical students since you would be paying them for providing their applications.

 

[Goro]

Go look up "FERPA violations".

Hi SDN,

Would you like to see examples of AMCAS applications from current Harvard Medical School students? I am considering putting together such a database (this year) to share with premedical students, but I am wondering if it is worth pursuing. Since providing this service would take a considerable amount of time, effort, and money, there would be a fee ($20-50) to access this service. Is that reasonable? If so, how should I prevent people from torrenting the applications? Any general thoughts?

Thanks,

OD

 

[Lawpy]

Hi SDN,

Would you like to see examples of AMCAS applications from current Harvard Medical School students? I am considering putting together such a database (this year) to share with premedical students, but I am wondering if it is worth pursuing. Since providing this service would take a considerable amount of time, effort, and money, there would be a fee ($20-50) to access this service. Is that reasonable? If so, how should I prevent people from torrenting the applications? Any general thoughts?

Thanks,

OD

Why pay a fee when much of that info can be looked up on their LinkedIn profiles?

 

[gyngyn]

The PS's of applicants accepted to HMS were not substantially different from the excellent applicants who got in elsewhere.

 

[Glandzburg]

Oh give it a rest, nobody is going to pay for that.

 

[njtrimed]

A much more valuable resource would be one that collects AMCAS data for students that were accepted at all schools and reporting trends on selection factors (ie this school has a bias towards non trads, this school prefers high GPA, this school loves athletes, this one loves students who speak multiple languages, this school appears to mostly balance its class among all groups, etc etc). Of course, this information is already available for those willing to dig but having a primary source would be much more helpful imho.

I know premeds can come off as a neurotic bunch, but most people I know are realistic in that they would just be happy getting in and the gunning for Harvard mentality is much less prevalent.

This is so true. A guide like the one you're suggesting is the only thing aside from MSAR I might have actually paid for. I never would have paid even $10 to see HMS applications. Fortunately, SDN is free and full of fantastic advice; honestly, this forum is a large part of the reason I got into an MD school with a <65 LizzyM. The application process is so expensive and there are so many amazing free resources out there that I would never recommend anyone actually pays for anything like what the OP proposed.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

The PS's of applicants accepted to HMS were not substantially different from the excellent applicants who got in elsewhere.

For real?! I never would have guessed!

 

[OptoDraft]

Go look up "FERPA violations".

Looked up FERPA. What I am asking about doing is in no violation of FERPA and complies with all other federal and state laws. Thanks.

 

[OptoDraft]

The PS's of applicants accepted to HMS were not substantially different from the excellent applicants who got in elsewhere.

As an attending physician and administrator (I assume you work with admissions by your post), your response carries a lot of weight. While it may be true that HMS students are no different from other excellent applicants, the point of this service is to provide excellent application examples to help premedical students get into their dream medical school. Is what I am proposing not going to be at least helpful to premedical students? I would have found such a service helpful, and so would those who responded "yes."

 

[gyngyn]

As an attending physician and administrator (I assume you work with admissions by your post), your response carries a lot of weight. While it may be true that HMS students are no different from other excellent applicants, the point of this service is to provide excellent application examples to help premedical students get into their dream medical school. Is what I am proposing not going to be at least helpful to premedical students? I would have found such a service helpful, and so would those who responded "yes."

The best Personal Statements are clear, honest and spoken in the authentic voice of the applicant.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

As an attending physician and administrator (I assume you work with admissions by your post), your response carries a lot of weight. While it may be true that HMS students are no different from other excellent applicants, the point of this service is to provide excellent application examples to help premedical students get into their dream medical school. Is what I am proposing not going to be at least helpful to premedical students? I would have found such a service helpful, and so would those who responded "yes."

As @piii already mentioned, people can use mdapps to get an idea of what the more competitive apps look like. In addition, students from the top schools often post in the school specific threads and offer insight into how their schools evaluate candidates.

 

[Psai]

You'd have to pay me to read them

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Yeah, this thread is definitely one of sdn's greatest misses...

 

[OptoDraft]

You'd have to pay me to read them

That's okay, because I wouldn't want you to read them--you already succeeded in getting into medical school. I am interested in helping those who are not already where you are.

Is there a particular reason you object to this idea? As far as I can see, there is no source of excellent AMCAS example applications available anywhere.

Perhaps if you can give me a link to excellent--anonymized-- whole applications (i.e. personal statement, academic background, activities, and secondaries for the same student), I may be persuaded to forgo providing premedical students with example HMS AMCAS applications. However, if I can help premeds legitimately get into medical school, why would I stop?