Seeking advice re: California programs

[deleted6669]

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I can only speak with authority about the one I know about. at that program the residents were taught the skills they need to be a kp fm physician. for all intents and purposes(at least at that 1 facility) it meant minimal procedures and consult out lots of stuff to kp specialists.
I would be surprised if other kp fm residencies were different. the reason kp offers residencies is that it is a good recruitment tool. many of their grads end up staying at kp for their entire careers.

 

[elizabeth5863]

I can only speak with authority about the one I know about. at that program the residents were taught the skills they need to be a kp fm physician. for all intents and purposes(at least at that 1 facility) it meant minimal procedures and consult out lots of stuff to kp specialists.
I would be surprised if other kp fm residencies were different. the reason kp offers residencies is that it is a good recruitment tool. many of their grads end up staying at kp for their entire careers.

Thanks for your input, emedpa. If you don't mind, can you PM me the Kaiser program you're talking about? I want to make sure I get good training and and don't want to regret the decisions I make regarding residency training. I must admit though that Kaiser is very effective at advertising itself.

 

[Faebinder]

I can only speak with authority about the one I know about. at that program the residents were taught the skills they need to be a kp fm physician. for all intents and purposes(at least at that 1 facility) it meant minimal procedures and consult out lots of stuff to kp specialists.
I would be surprised if other kp fm residencies were different. the reason kp offers residencies is that it is a good recruitment tool. many of their grads end up staying at kp for their entire careers.

I wish that would just freakin stop... I feel that some programs want to recruit people after residency but don't care about what they teach in residency.

 

[elizabeth5863]

I heard on my interview trail that UC San Diego is very opposed. Has anyone interviewed there and heard this? If so, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

 

[elizabeth5863]

Has anyone interviewed at both Sutter Health and UC Davis? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts. I like them both but they are also very different.

 

[elizabeth5863]

I have interviews coming up at Presbyterian in Whittier, Kaiser L.A., UCLA Harbor and UCLA Santa Monica, White Memorial, Northridge, and Pomona. I'll post updates as I progress through those interviews. Hope this is helpful.

Hi ttjan,

Have you done your interview at UCLA-Harbor yet? I was wondering what you thought of the program. I still have many questions about the program unanswered and have mixed feelings about it. Having to do scutwork like drawing blood for pts with fever, having to talk to cardiology, infectious diseases, radiology, or other departments for authorization to do echos, start vancomycin, or do certain imaging is kind of a hassle to me. I haven't heard of other residents at other county programs having to do something similar. The training is good though, I think. I didn't get to meet any of the interns except one. Anyway, I'd love to hear what you thought of the place. Thanks!

 

[MDWoochie]

Has anyone interviewed at both Sutter Health and UC Davis? If so, I'd like to hear your thoughts. I like them both but they are also very different.

I did. I just got back.

I like them both too, but they are very different.

I think that Sutter would be a lot less pressure, a lot less sink or swim. I think you would see a lot more bread and butter medicine. If you don't see yourself in academia, I think this is a great program. They also have the Davis track which, is a great place to be exposed to a true small community hospital. The big drawback of that is lack of volume, and lack of exposure to more complicated patients. A lot of the interesting cases will be referred out.

The biggest problem with Sutter is that 1) it's a tiny program: it would be really hard if comeone needed maternity leave etc; 2) The first year and taking call overnight as a PGY-1 and covering 2 hospitals. I really think that is a huge turn off. I don't want to commute in the middle of the night, but maybe that's just me.

As far as UC Davis...Everything opposite of what I said: lots of exposure to specialty care, less bread and butter. And, there, they are all about sink or swim, at least that is the impression I got. I also think that the program seemed slightly malignant. Although I didn't feel that there mix of residents was the caliber you'd expect with an attitude like that. I also thought that the fact that you are on almost all your services with other residents is a drawback. I do think there is some advantage to being the only residents in the hospital. Of course, I think this is program dependent, it doesn't feel to me to as much a problem at some programs. I fell the track program is a faabulous idea, and very unique. That's what drew me to interview there, and I think that is really great. I have heard some rumors that there clinic is pretty low volume, which I think is a concern. I heard this when I traveled to So. Cal. As far as being covered if you have issues, it is a large program, and you don't have to worry if something comes up, with so many residents, they can work with you.

I dunno, it just depends on what you're looking for.

 

[elizabeth5863]

I did. I just got back.

I like them both too, but they are very different.

I think that Sutter would be a lot less pressure, a lot less sink or swim. I think you would see a lot more bread and butter medicine. If you don't see yourself in academia, I think this is a great program. They also have the Davis track which, is a great place to be exposed to a true small community hospital. The big drawback of that is lack of volume, and lack of exposure to more complicated patients. A lot of the interesting cases will be referred out.

The biggest problem with Sutter is that 1) it's a tiny program: it would be really hard if comeone needed maternity leave etc; 2) The first year and taking call overnight as a PGY-1 and covering 2 hospitals. I really think that is a huge turn off. I don't want to commute in the middle of the night, but maybe that's just me.

As far as UC Davis...Everything opposite of what I said: lots of exposure to specialty care, less bread and butter. And, there, they are all about sink or swim, at least that is the impression I got. I also think that the program seemed slightly malignant. Although I didn't feel that there mix of residents was the caliber you'd expect with an attitude like that. I also thought that the fact that you are on almost all your services with other residents is a drawback. I do think there is some advantage to being the only residents in the hospital. Of course, I think this is program dependent, it doesn't feel to me to as much a problem at some programs. I fell the track program is a faabulous idea, and very unique. That's what drew me to interview there, and I think that is really great. I have heard some rumors that there clinic is pretty low volume, which I think is a concern. I heard this when I traveled to So. Cal. As far as being covered if you have issues, it is a large program, and you don't have to worry if something comes up, with so many residents, they can work with you.

I dunno, it just depends on what you're looking for.

I like aspects of both - that's the problem. I still haven't found the "perfect" fit yet. I think the clinic volume at UC Davis is fine although it is not as much as at the Kaiser programs, where PGY-3's are seeing 12 pts in 1 half-day (aka 3 hrs), whereas at UC Davis, it would be 9 pts. The program at UC Davis didn't seem malignant to me, but then again, I'm used to being at a university setting as a med student. The only problems I saw with UC Davis is the procedural training and the subspeciality rotations. I hear that unless you take the initiative and be assertive, you might not get as many procedures or do as much in the subspeciality rotations (aka more shadowing). Another Kaiser program I went too had the same problem with the subspecialities where there is more shadowing. Although I do take the initiative for my own learning, I think that it might get tiresome for me to have to ask for every single procedure during the 3 years of residency. The number of bread and butter cases at UC Davis is fine, in my opinion. I like academics and wish Sutter was a bit more academic. I wish UC Davis was less unopposed. Oh man... I'm having a hard time deciding. I also like the Kaiser programs too though and I think they have the best outpatient training compared to any of the other programs I've seen.

 

[ttjan]

Hi ttjan,

Have you done your interview at UCLA-Harbor yet? I was wondering what you thought of the program. I still have many questions about the program unanswered and have mixed feelings about it. Having to do scutwork like drawing blood for pts with fever, having to talk to cardiology, infectious diseases, radiology, or other departments for authorization to do echos, start vancomycin, or do certain imaging is kind of a hassle to me. I haven't heard of other residents at other county programs having to do something similar. The training is good though, I think. I didn't get to meet any of the interns except one. Anyway, I'd love to hear what you thought of the place. Thanks!

HI!! I cancelled by Harbor UCLA interview because I'd heard from two people that there is a LOT OF SCUTWORK at Harbor. One UCLA who rotated there said it really interfered with learning. Have you interviewed at Kaiser Sunset? I really like them.

Last interview this week!!!!

 

[elizabeth5863]

HI!! I cancelled by Harbor UCLA interview because I'd heard from two people that there is a LOT OF SCUTWORK at Harbor. One UCLA who rotated there said it really interfered with learning. Have you interviewed at Kaiser Sunset? I really like them.

Last interview this week!!!!

HI ttjan!!! It's great to hear from you! 😀

I agree with the other two people you mentioned. I think there IS a lot of scutwork at Harbor UCLA but the residents I met there on my interview seemed to downplay it. The residents have to draw bloodwork on every pt who has a fever themselves. Imagine trying to draw blood when you have so many pts to round on in the morning! I think that's ridiculous. It's really disappointing since it's so close to where my family is...

I haven't interviewed at Kaiser - Sunset yet. It's my last interview and it's next week. I'll let you know what I think of it.

Do you think UCLA - Santa Monica has a lot of scutwork as well? I have an interview coming up there but I'm already not too excited about it because of the amount of driving you have to do within the program.

Anyway, good luck with your last interview!!!

 

[thedman888]

anyone has thoughts on Glendale Adv, Harbor-UCLA, and PIH

 

[ttjan]

anyone has thoughts on Glendale Adv, Harbor-UCLA, and PIH

I interviewed at PIH and Glendale and cancelled my interview at Harbor. Honestly, PIH and Glendale are at the bottom of my list. At PIH, there's morning report with an internist who demoralizes all the residents ( he even pimps the applicants). I'm all for learning, but this situation just seemed a little too malignant for me. Also, they kept emphasizing how great the food in the cafeteria was--a weak selling point in my book.

Glendale--I think they have 11 months of call first year. Of course intern year is call heavy everywhere, but there are stronger programs that have a few non-call months first year. When I asked about the 80 hr work week, I was told that "it was an average over a four week period." Not a good sign. Also, I wasn't too impressed with the residents I met. I wish I liked this program more since I live 5 minutes away.


I cancelled Harbor because I heard from two very reliable sources that they do tons and tons of scutwork, leaving little time for actual learning.

Hope this helps.

 

[ttjan]

HI ttjan!!!

Do you think UCLA - Santa Monica has a lot of scutwork as well? I have an interview coming up there but I'm already not too excited about it because of the amount of driving you have to do within the program.

:

I'm not sure about UCLA Santa MOnica and lots of scutwork. I know somebody who did his residency there and was very happy. He's also an amazing family doc. I have a friend who's an IM resident at UCLA and rotates at many of the same hospitals as the Family Med residents--she works hard, but doesn't complain about scutwork. I think the residents at UCLA-Santa Monica are top notch and there seems to be a lot of camraderie among them. And the residency director seems really nice. These may all outweigh the driving issue--especially if you live on the Westside. Good luck and let me know your thoughts on Kaiser-L.A.

 

[elizabeth5863]

I'm not sure about UCLA Santa MOnica and lots of scutwork. I know somebody who did his residency there and was very happy. He's also an amazing family doc. I have a friend who's an IM resident at UCLA and rotates at many of the same hospitals as the Family Med residents--she works hard, but doesn't complain about scutwork. I think the residents at UCLA-Santa Monica are top notch and there seems to be a lot of camraderie among them. And the residency director seems really nice. These may all outweigh the driving issue--especially if you live on the Westside. Good luck and let me know your thoughts on Kaiser-L.A.

Thanks for your thoughts! I'll ask more about the various housing location/options when I visit there. I'll let you know about Kaiser - L.A. as soon as I interview there. It's my last interview. Only 3 more to go! (I can't wait til I'm done!)

 

[ttjan]

By the way, UCLA does offer University housing for residents--apparently its really nice and very, very affordable. I thinks its in Palms, which is on the westside. Make sure to ask about it!!
Good luck!!!!

 

[elizabeth5863]

anyone has thoughts on Glendale Adv, Harbor-UCLA, and PIH

I didn't apply to Glendale Adv or PIH. I did interviewed at Harbor-UCLA, but I didn't like the scutwork there.

Except for Harbor-UCLA, I haven't heard of any other FM programs in CA where residents have to draw bloodwork on pts with fever or need to contact different departments in order to get certain imaging done or to start certain meds. I can see how resources at county hospitals are limited and that contacting different departments conserves resources though. Other than the scutwork, I think that you get great hands on experience.

The program director had admirable goals and his goal is to graduate residents who will go into underserved communities; more than 2/3's of their grads do this. For me, although one of my goals is the help the underserved, I didn't feel comfortable being in a program where I would be looked down upon if I decided to work for Kaiser in the future (I would still do volunteer work at free med clinics nontheless.) However, I think that the program director at Harbor - UCLA would be very disappointed in me if I ever work for Kaiser in the future.

I've met many other program directors who seemed more supportive of whatever goals I may have and whatever I choose to do in the future. For me, this is very important. If you know that you will be working with an underserved population for the rest of your life, Harbor-UCLA program would be perfect. For me, I have 40 more years of medical practice before I retire and I can't guarantee that at all points in my life that I will be working with the underserved (although I know I will be working with the underserved for part of my life). Basically, I'm looking for a residency program that would allow me to work with the underserved, but would be supportive of my future decisions if I should choose to work for Kaiser after 3 years of residency.

Hope that helps. Good luck! 🙂

 

[elizabeth5863]

Hi ttjan,

I was wondering what you thought of Northridge and Long Beach Memorial. (I haven't interviewed at Kaiser - L.A. yet, btw, but as soon as I do, I'll let you know). I'm kind of ambivalent between the community programs vs. the more academic ones... I like both types of settings so I'm having a really hard time deciding where I would be happy...

 

[ttjan]

Hi ttjan,

I was wondering what you thought of Northridge and Long Beach Memorial. (I haven't interviewed at Kaiser - L.A. yet, btw, but as soon as I do, I'll let you know). I'm kind of ambivalent between the community programs vs. the more academic ones... I like both types of settings so I'm having a really hard time deciding where I would be happy...

I didn't apply to Long Beach, but I did apply and interview at Northridge. I was very very impressed with their program. Strong residents and great faculty. Unopposed program. Good didactics. Good volume of patients. Great support by senior residents when on call. They are affiliated with UCLA but are a community program. So it seems like you get the best of both worlds. I really liked what I saw there. I hear great things about Long Beach, but it was farther than I wanted to commute daily. Let me know what you think!

 

[elizabeth5863]

Good luck and let me know your thoughts on Kaiser-L.A.

Hi ttjan,
I've interviewed at Kaiser - LA and really liked it as well! Here are my thoughts:

What I liked:

• Excellent faculty who seem interested in teaching.
• FM docs do the teaching on inpatient medicine
• Program director has impressive resume
• Excellent program reputation
• Several graduates of the program have gone on to become faculty or program directors in other fp residencies (I don't want to ever be a program director, but I would love to become faculty at any fp residency program some day)
• Strong inpatient medicine training (I like doing hospital work)
• Protected sleep time for 1st and 2nd year residents (from 3 a.m. - 7 a.m. Alright!!!)
• Lots of resident autonomy - I don't like to be handheld during residency
• Residents are nice (not the best camaraderie I've seen out of all the programs I've interviewed at, but residents seem friendly and supportive of each other. They warmed up more to the applicants toward the end of the interview day.)
• Geriatrics fellowship and sports medicine fellowship available through FM dept (I like geriatrics!)
• Graduates have better chances of getting a job at Kaiser after residency than non-Kaiser fp residents
• Most of rotations are at the hospital and clinic; not much traveling to do elsewhere
• Close to where my family lives
• Clinic is nice and spacious
• EMR to be started in Feb 2007 (I was surprised that they didn't have EMR yet. Most other Kaiser fp programs I've visited already had EMR)
• Diverse pt population, lots of pathology, pts are of various socioeconomic groups. The working poor go to Kaiser as well
• Terteriary care center receiving lots of pt referrals from surrounding Kaiser facilities
• Other residents from other fields to consult with and learn from
• Opportunity for community service at free medical clinics

What I didn't like:

• Not enough outpatient peds. You have to do more active recruiting to get more peds in your clinic.
• Low continuity OB pt volume (residents get plenty of deliveries but the continuity may be a problem since some of the deliveries end up being C-section instead of vaginal. There is also competition with Cedars Sinai where it seems that the OB pts prefer to go (per the conversations of the residents I met)
• Hospital seemed old and crowded (I was disappointed in how the hospital looked since Kaiser - Fontana, Orange County, and Riverside had such nice, large, spacious facilities)
• New hospital will open up sometime in 2008 or 2009 if there are no further delays - this is too long for me to wait to reap the benefits of being in a spacious, new, and beautiful building (I'm not that patient and I like being in a nice hospital esp. if I am going to be spending lots of time in it - i.e. eating, sleeping, breathing, living in it for the next 3 years)
• Not the best location for my boyfriend and his career
• Opposed program (however, the residents didn't think that this is a problem and that they are treated well by other residencies)
• Small and crowded cafeteria (but the residents warned us to not judge their program according to their cafeteria)
• There is a stigma associated with going to a Kaiser fp residency. I've heard a lot of this during my interview trail. There's the assumption that you're being trained to be a certain type of doctor by going to Kaiser - a doctor who does mostly clinic work and who will refer out the harder cases. (I met a Kaiser faculty member from a different program who told me that if I ever work for Kaiser, I will most likely not do a lot of inpatient procedures and will not do much inpatient work upon graduating from residency. There would be hospitalists who would be doing the inpt work. However, faculty members at Kaiser fp programs still get to do hospital work in addition to clinic work. I'm not sure if there are lots of Kaiser places to work at post-residency where you can do inpatient work in addition to doing clinic without being faculty. Does anyone know???). I'm also not sure if the stigma also makes it harder to get faculty positions in non-kaiser fp residency programs.

Hope that helps! Good luck!

 

[ttjan]

Thanks So Much For Your Impressions Of Kaiser-la. I Also Loved The Program For All The Reasons You Mentioned. My Only Fear Is That I'm Not The Only One Who Wants Be There....seems Like One Of The More Competitive Fam Med Residencies In L.a. Area. What Do You Think?

 

[elizabeth5863]

Thanks So Much For Your Impressions Of Kaiser-la. I Also Loved The Program For All The Reasons You Mentioned. My Only Fear Is That I'm Not The Only One Who Wants Be There....seems Like One Of The More Competitive Fam Med Residencies In L.a. Area. What Do You Think?

Yes, I do think Kaiser - LA is competitive. But I also feel that many different applicants want different things in a program and that there are lots of factors that influence their decision making -- i.e. proximity to family, place where significant other/spouse can find a job, cost of living, traffic, location, impression of interview day experiences - good or bad, personality fit with the current residents/faculty, desire for unopposed vs. opposed program, etc. (The list goes on and on). So what you or I want may be totally different from what someone else wants. What we, ourselves, both want may also be different too.

For instance, I'm not too fond of being in the L.A. area... (but it seems like you love it). After being in the Midwest for almost 4 years now, it was a nightmare to come back to LA to do my interviews - the traffic on the freeways - the 405 and 101 are terrible! I hate driving too. (If my family lived in the Midwest, I probably would be doing residency in the Midwest in order to avoid traffic. Also, the training in the Midwest for fp is really good). I didn't really like the location that Kaiser - L.A. is in. The area is kind of old-ish. So is the hospital. (I'm kind of bummed that the new hospital might not open up until 2008/9? or later, btw). And because of my boyfriend's career, if I did residency in Northern California in the San Francisco Bay area (either UCSF or San Jose O'Conner), he would get more job opportunities and opportunities for advancement/success in his field. I want to make sure that he is happy as well and not just me.

So in the end, I think that it will work itself out. Each person has their own wants/needs... Kaiser - LA may be great for some but not-so-great for others. Since it seems like you really like Kaiser - LA, let's just hope that others don't like it as much 😉 (esp. since it's really really inpatient medicine heavy and many people I know actually don't plan on doing hospital work after graduation). (I also met others on my interview trail who didn't feel comfortable around Kaiser - LA's PD... so who each applicant clicks with also plays a role in their rank list decision).

Anyway, I think you will do great, so try not to worry as much 🙂 (I should practice what I preach too, eh? 😀 ) You're intelligent and you're in a med school in CA! CA med schools are really strong, have a good reputation, and good applicants. I think that really helps! I'll be rooting for you! Good luck!

 

[elizabeth5863]

I didn't apply to Long Beach, but I did apply and interview at Northridge. I was very very impressed with their program. Strong residents and great faculty. Unopposed program. Good didactics. Good volume of patients. Great support by senior residents when on call. They are affiliated with UCLA but are a community program. So it seems like you get the best of both worlds. I really liked what I saw there. I hear great things about Long Beach, but it was farther than I wanted to commute daily. Let me know what you think!

Regarding Northridge:

Things I like:
I like the program director, behavioral scientist, and the other faculty. Almost all the faculty members are very personable and approachable. The residents are really friendly. The residents said they feel more than well prepared to do hospital work after graduating since they do so much of it. (And I definitely want to do hospital work after residency). The location is great and there are hardly any away rotations. (Not much commuting to do). The teaching in the clinic was excellent when I was observing the preceptors. Diverse patient population with lots of pathology. Large patient volume. Residents don't pre-round on pts. The team gets together at 7:30 a.m. for check-out and then hospital rounds begins at 9:30 or 10:00 a.m., I think. Good program reputation. All residents are AMG's I think and they came from strong medical schools.

Things I didn't like:
There were two attendings on the inpatient service at Northridge. I wasn't too impressed when I heard that FM faculty manage the easier cases on the inpatient service while the internist managed harder cases. (It's my preference to have FM docs teach instead of the internist). I asked the residents about this and they said that they have 2 attendings because there are so many pts; the 2 attendings divide up the work. They sometimes have too many pts that sometimes even 2 attendings on the service aren't enough per the residents. The internist will always be on the inpatient team, while the FM docs rotate through each week. The biggest negative for me is that my personality doesn't click well with the internist's personality. (Actually, it was his mannerisms that reminded me of someone else that bothered me... I think I'm being too judgmental...???) 🙁

Hope that helps.

 

[not4rural]

I didn't apply to Long Beach, but I did apply and interview at Northridge. I was very very impressed with their program. Strong residents and great faculty. Unopposed program. Good didactics. Good volume of patients. Great support by senior residents when on call. They are affiliated with UCLA but are a community program. So it seems like you get the best of both worlds. I really liked what I saw there. I hear great things about Long Beach, but it was farther than I wanted to commute daily. Let me know what you think!

I actually applied and interviewed at both..I did not like Northridge. One interview was really strange and the vibe I got from the residents was that they work a lot! They are in the process of getting EMR and freaking out.

I really liked long beach but I'm not sure if it's because the residents were so great or because I really like the program. Anyway, it was the first time that I thought the residents were all very smart and confident, yet sweet and really nice. I had a not so great interview there, but I heard that faculty member kinda grills everyone. Anyone interviewed at UCSD?

 

[elizabeth5863]

I actually applied and interviewed at both..I did not like Northridge. One interview was really strange and the vibe I got from the residents was that they work a lot! They are in the process of getting EMR and freaking out.

I really liked long beach but I'm not sure if it's because the residents were so great or because I really like the program. Anyway, it was the first time that I thought the residents were all very smart and confident, yet sweet and really nice. I had a not so great interview there, but I heard that faculty member kinda grills everyone. Anyone interviewed at UCSD?

I had a bad interview at Long Beach too. That's too bad cuz I liked the program a whole lot too. As for Northridge vs. Long Beach, I think the residents at Long Beach have it just as rough or more rough. Imagine doing 8 weeks of inpatient family medicine... I did 4 weeks of it once for my sub-I and almost died from exhaustion. I interviewed at UCSD but I have mixed feelings about it. I didn't get to talk to any of the interns. How ridiculous.

 

[not4rural]

I had a bad interview at Long Beach too. That's too bad cuz I liked the program a whole lot too. As for Northridge vs. Long Beach, I think the residents at Long Beach have it just as rough or more rough. Imagine doing 8 weeks of inpatient family medicine... I did 4 weeks of it once for my sub-I and almost died from exhaustion. I interviewed at UCSD but I have mixed feelings about it. I didn't get to talk to any of the interns. How ridiculous.

So would you say you are leaning more towards a community or an academic program? I feel most of the community are pretty academic anyway....did you interview at UCI? Have you heard anything about it? I really liked that program too.

Just like you I'm from out of state so I'm looking to move to CA....my problem is that I didn't apply to many programs...only in So Cal. 🙁

 

[elizabeth5863]

So would you say you are leaning more towards a community or an academic program? I feel most of the community are pretty academic anyway....did you interview at UCI? Have you heard anything about it? I really liked that program too.

Just like you I'm from out of state so I'm looking to move to CA....my problem is that I didn't apply to many programs...only in So Cal. 🙁

Umm... I like both community and academic programs. Which is why I have a hard time even putting together my rank list. I like them 50/50. (Well.. maybe community 49% and academic 51%).

No, I didn't interview at UCI. That's something I really regret cuz it's very near where my family lives and it's in a great location. 🙁

I applied to lots of programs in CA but it's cuz I didn't know anything about them or anyone who went to them. In the end though, I felt that many of my interviews were kind of a waste of my time; I prefer Southern CA programs anyway since my family's there.

Good luck to you! Most of us will end up matching in our top 5 anyway. My problem is that my boyfriend is "for rural." He grew up in a rural community and he's going to hate Southern CA. So do I choose Central CA or Southern CA...? hmm..

 

[not4rural]

Umm... I like both community and academic programs. Which is why I have a hard time even putting together my rank list. I like them 50/50. (Well.. maybe community 49% and academic 51%).

No, I didn't interview at UCI. That's something I really regret cuz it's very near where my family lives and it's in a great location. 🙁

I applied to lots of programs in CA but it's cuz I didn't know anything about them or anyone who went to them. In the end though, I felt that many of my interviews were kind of a waste of my time; I prefer Southern CA programs anyway since my family's there.

Good luck to you! Most of us will end up matching in our top 5 anyway. My problem is that my boyfriend is "for rural." He grew up in a rural community and he's going to hate Southern CA. So do I choose Central CA or Southern CA...? hmm..

I guess I can't really answer that. I only interviewed in Orange County...I think either way California programs tend to be better than other states...so wherever I end up..it'll probably be an okay program.. I really liked UCI. Anyone else? I think I tend to go for academic programs more but somehow I really liked long beach. Tuff decisions.

 

[MDWoochie]

I had a bad interview at Long Beach too. That's too bad cuz I liked the program a whole lot too.

I didn't think my interview went bad at long beach, i was just wondering who you thought was the difficult interviewer? Was it the attending in charge of inpatient medicine?

 

[not4rural]

I didn't think my interview went bad at long beach, i was just wondering who you thought was the difficult interviewer? Was it the attending in charge of inpatient medicine?

I won't say. It wasn't horrible but it just didn't make me feel like that person reallly liked me like the other interviews. There were 3 interviews so 2 good ones usually wins over the one odd one right?

What did you think of the program?

 

[MDWoochie]

I like Long Beach, and think you would not go wrong going there. The residents there are very strong for a reason, they attract good candidates. I think that their inpatient medicine seems very good. They have good opportunities for international experiences. I was impressed that they kept a list of procedures out for all to view. I thought that means they really care if you get your RRC requirements and your deliveries, which is important to me because I'm going to do OB.

The residents seemed to really like each other, and their PD seemed awesome. The fact that faculty are hired, but old ones don't leave tells you this is a good place to work. I would definitely rank it highly, but alas, I am couple's matching and it doesn't look like it is in the cards.

I also have friends who are residents in the area, and one even rotated there and says their FM residents are really strong. I only went to 3 cali programs for interviews, but this one was definitiely the strongest.

 

[elizabeth5863]

I didn't think my interview went bad at long beach, i was just wondering who you thought was the difficult interviewer? Was it the attending in charge of inpatient medicine?

I don't want to name names. Like "not4rural," I didn't feel that I was wanted there by one interviewer. I don't think this interviewer had much experience interviewing applicants and felt that it was difficult for me to establish rapport with him. The way he started the interview was a bit of a turn off for me. At most of my other interviewers, I felt that there was rapport between me and the interviewer. As for the PD, I didn't get to meet her on my interview day unfortunately. I really like Long Beach overall as well but I like the Sacramento area more than the Long Beach area.

 

[MDWoochie]

I don't want to name names.

I understand, I was just curious. I am not ranking them probably anyway, but that wasn't my experience.

 

[not4rural]

I was hoping someone could comment on UCI vs UCSD....please

 

[not4rural]

Thank you so much for the advice. I hope your couples match goes well

 

[not4rural]

I like Long Beach, and think you would not go wrong going there. The residents there are very strong for a reason, they attract good candidates. I think that their inpatient medicine seems very good. They have good opportunities for international experiences. I was impressed that they kept a list of procedures out for all to view. I thought that means they really care if you get your RRC requirements and your deliveries, which is important to me because I'm going to do OB.

The residents seemed to really like each other, and their PD seemed awesome. The fact that faculty are hired, but old ones don't leave tells you this is a good place to work. I would definitely rank it highly, but alas, I am couple's matching and it doesn't look like it is in the cards.

I also have friends who are residents in the area, and one even rotated there and says their FM residents are really strong. I only went to 3 cali programs for interviews, but this one was definitiely the strongest.

Thank you so much for your input! Good luck with the couples match

 

[thedman888]

anyone has info on USC-CA, Riverside county, and Kern county? thx

 

[elizabeth5863]

I actually applied and interviewed at both..I did not like Northridge. One interview was really strange and the vibe I got from the residents was that they work a lot! They are in the process of getting EMR and freaking out.

I don't think the faculty and residents are really freaking out about EMR. It's the nursing and administrative staff that are freaking out. Most of us in medicine learn are quick learners and, after being taught to use the EMR several times and using it more and more, we pick it up fast. For nursing and administrative staff, it may be more difficult for them I think. For instance, my dad's not in medicine and he has hardly ever touched the computer his entire life and he's terrified of it; to be a nurse/administrative staff in a place starting EMR and to have your livelihood depend on you being able to use it, I think it is normal for people to stress out about it. (I haven't seen other programs talk about it too much because I don't think they have a psychologist who is interested in making the EMR transition as easy as possible for everyone. The newly hired psychologist at Northridge is excellent and cares about the stress that the EMR places on the team. If you help the people decrease their stress level by helping them find solutions, they're able to focus more on patient care). I also believe that all places starting EMR will have a similar problem. So I don't think I would write a program off for just that.

As for working hard, I expect to work hard in residency and I want to work hard. That's where we're making the transition from med student to a real doctor. And we have only 3 years to learn fp before we're out in the real world and are alone. Being able to become efficient yet complete is something I'm still working on. On my interview day, sure, the residents told me that they work hard here... but I think it's good to be told things upfront. The census is high in Northridge with sometimes 40 inpts. But they have a team of two attendings, a chief, and 3 other residents. So each resident gets about 10 pts with the 2nd years seeing a bit more. That's not bad at all. I think the volume is great because you get a similar volume to that seen in county hospitals yet you get to be in a community program. I think that's fantastic 🙂

 

[ttjan]

hi elizabeth5863! I think you and I are leaning towards the same programs. Maybe we'll end up in the same one!

 

[elizabeth5863]

hi elizabeth5863! I think you and I are leaning towards the same programs. Maybe we'll end up in the same one!

Hey ttjan! I think that would be great! I would love to have you as a colleague! (We're already doing teamwork before residency!) 🙂

 

[Laura28]

Hi all, thanks for all the impressions you've posted so far re: your interviews. They've been very helpful. I'm a little disappointed about all the negativity I've seen surrounding Kaiser programs, especially since a couple of them are high on my rank list. I read the post on Kaiser LA, but I didn't interview there.

Does anyone have any positive impressions of any of the other Socal Kaiser programs? Does anyone know any Kaiser grads who didn't stay at Kaiser and felt well-prepared out in the real world? Actually, I would appreciate ANY opinions on other Socal Kaiser programs, not just positive ones. Thanks.

 

[elizabeth5863]

Hi all, thanks for all the impressions you've posted so far re: your interviews. They've been very helpful. I'm a little disappointed about all the negativity I've seen surrounding Kaiser programs, especially since a couple of them are high on my rank list. I read the post on Kaiser LA, but I didn't interview there.

Does anyone have any positive impressions of any of the other Socal Kaiser programs? Does anyone know any Kaiser grads who didn't stay at Kaiser and felt well-prepared out in the real world? Actually, I would appreciate ANY opinions on other Socal Kaiser programs, not just positive ones. Thanks.

Hi Laura,

I interviewed at Kaiser - Orange County, Kaiser - Fontana, and Kaiser - Riverside as well. I like all of them and the people there. The camaraderie in those programs (and Kaiser programs in general) are better than at most other programs I've interviewed at. Outpatient medicine training is excellent at any of the Kaiser programs; it's the intensity of the inpatient training that differs. On my interview trail, I've heard that Kaiser - LA is most inpatient intensive (maybe a bit more than I would like in terms of the # of ICU pts; I'm not that comfortable with ICU pts...), Kaiser - Fontana is next in terms of intensity of inpatient training. Then there are Kaiser - Orange County and Kaiser - Riverside (where I think the inpatient emphasis is about the same).

It depends on what you're looking for in a program... Kaiser - OC is in a nice location but traffic can be very bad; there's a lot of driving around in OC to the different sites. Kaiser - Riverside - not as nice a location as OC in terms of lots of restaurants, night life, etc. (and job opportunities for my boyfriend in his field) but the city is growing; also most of the rotations are at Kaiser - Riverside and there is only one away rotation at a county hospital nearby. The housing in Riverside is very affordable and traffic isn't a problem. I also observed faculty precepting at Kaiser - Riverside and attended a noon lecture there; it was excellent teaching and I was impressed with how much the attendings knew. (One of the faculty members was very up-to-date in terms of the management of a complex patient - I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference between her and an internist doing clinic for the day).

Overall, I really like the Kaiser programs and the outpatient teaching. I would choose basically in terms of location, where you have family and a good support group, and how much inpatient work you want to be doing. (In terms of inpatient procedures, I don't think that the Kaiser programs offer a lot of that, but they train you well in outpatient procedures. I'm not very familiar about the procedures part... If you want a lot of procedures, I think that being in a county program would be better. However, the downside of county programs is that you get a lot of no-shows in clinic and also you don't get a lot of continuity with patients to become really good at outpatient medicine... i.e. how would you know if a med/txmt is effective for that pt if the pt doesn't show up? Then you would lose the opportunity to try a different regimen and to learn how to manage pts when the first line treatment failed).

As for the stigma of going to a Kaiser program... that's something I don't have a solution to. One Kaiser - grad I talked to said that she feels more than well prepared to do both inpatient and outpatient work after graduating - no matter where she goes.

Hope that helps! Good luck!

 

[ttjan]

Hi all, thanks for all the impressions you've posted so far re: your interviews. They've been very helpful. I'm a little disappointed about all the negativity I've seen surrounding Kaiser programs, especially since a couple of them are high on my rank list. I read the post on Kaiser LA, but I didn't interview there.

Does anyone have any positive impressions of any of the other Socal Kaiser programs? Does anyone know any Kaiser grads who didn't stay at Kaiser and felt well-prepared out in the real world? Actually, I would appreciate ANY opinions on other Socal Kaiser programs, not just positive ones. Thanks.

I know of people who interviewed at Woodland Hillls and were very impressed with the program, in particular the staff. I met some of the staff at a Kaiser.LA./Woodland HIlls applicant party and was impressed by how nice and accessible they appeared. I've also heard very good things about Kaiser Fontana--with the only drawback being that's in Fontana. I hear the Kaiser Orange County is a bit more chill than the others.

I only interviewed at Kaiser L.A. and loved it for all the reasons mentioned in a prior post (high volume, great inpatient and outpatient training, happy residents, impressive staff, great benefits, etc.). I also know some residents at Kaiser who are very happy, even as interns. In retrospect I would have applied to Woodland HIlls as well.

Sorry for the very general second-hand impressions. Good luck!!!

 

[ghettomama]

I was hoping someone could comment on UCI vs UCSD....please

Hi all, I'm a new member and I was reading the forum about California programs and I wanted to share my experiences as well.

UCI
My impression is that UCI is an academic program. The program director kept reiterating research opportunities during my interview. I have done a lot of research, but I have no interest in doing research in the future and I'm more interested in community service, which they don't seem to offer. Also, the chief resident told me that you can pretty much fly by any rotation without being noticed. Frankly, I don't want an easy program. Also, if you haven't noticed yet - there is trauma call! That was a major turn off for me.

UCLA Santa Monica
I really liked the program because of it's broad spectrum of training, which is a characteristic that I am looking for in a program, and the program director is really nice. However, every resident I had spoken to told me that not all faculty are enthusiastic about teaching. Some faculty members don't want you to see patients and would rather have you shadow them. Secondly, they rotate through a lot of sites that are FAR from each other, which makes it difficult to find a central location to live in. Not to mention Santa Monica is an expensive place.

Kaiser LA
I like the residents - they're a bunch of sarcastic people, but I was not impressed by them when I sat in on rounds. I liked the fact that they hang out with the other residents in the hospital as well. There is no family medicine inpatient team and they cross cover internal med pts too. Also, I have heard rumors about the program director not being personable and I didn't notice that the first time I interviewed. However, my second look confirmed that. I had contacted the program director to do a second look. When I showed up I introduced myself to him, but he did not greet me, welcome me, shake my hand or even look at me. He just told me not to sit in front of him so the inpatient team can sit. He handed me my name tag and did not say another word to me. After the inpatient team rounded, he told me to chase after the inpatient team if I want to see the inpatient service so I ran after them. I have never felt so insignificant in my life! I don't care how famous or smart you are - it doesn't hurt to be courteous to another person. Obviously, I don't want to work for someone who won't even acknowledge me. You guys can have my spot!

Harbor UCLA
I really wanted to clarify the amount of scutwork involved. The residents told me that you will have to draw your own blood cultures and ABG, which is the same as my med school so it's not something new to me. All routine blood draws are done by nurses. Also, depending on which service you are on, the amount of scutwork varies. On peds, you have a little more because they're kids so if you want things done quickly you have to do it yourself. If you are nice to the nurses, they will do a lot of things for you. As for radiology, I think that asking for permission is not a bad idea. It makes you think about the test you are ordering and the radiologist will tell you why you are wrong. Unlike my own personal experiences, the radiologist makes fun of the fm docs for ordering the wrong test without explaining or teaching them. Also, the radiologists will read the image results with residents. I want to learn how to read images well so that I will be more comfortable to do it myself when I am on my own. Yes, there is a lot of paperwork to fill out. However, keep in mind that scutwork only applies to the inpatient service so that's only a couple of months out of the year - it's not your entire 3 years. I like to do things myself anyways because I know things will get done so I don't mind putting up with it for a few months. Besides, I like the overall feel of the hospital. Everyone gets along with each other and they help each other out - it's a nurturing environment. Not to mention all the other specialties have a good reputation as well which enhances the learning environment. Lastly, I was really impressed with the attendings. They didn't pimp maliciously and they were very knowledgeable. The Harbor UCLA residents had good comraderie and felt like a "family" to me compared to the other residents at other programs.

UCSD
The UCSD residents are my other favorite group of residents. They have good comraderie and really look out for each other. I did my subi at UCSD and I loved it! The program director was my attending and he is really nice. He is compassionate, knowledgeable, and truly cares about his residents. He is open to suggestions and is always looking for ways to improve the program. The fm program is opposed, but you will only run into other specialties if you rotate at UCSD medical center in Hillcrest, VA, and Thornton hospital. Otherwise, you're by yourself. They rotate through a variety of systems in San Diego - Kaiser, Sharp, Scripps, etc. which is nice since you see how different systems work. The rumors that have been floating around are from UCSD medical students. The students in general are disgruntled because of the medical school curriculum and the school's treatment of their medical students - it is not a reflection of the family med program since the students do NOT rotate through family medicine service (it's an elective). I like UCSD because of the residents, the program director, broad spectrum of training and the location. For those of you who have never been to San Diego, you can go to the beach in the winter time and average temp is 70 deg year round (except occassional rain). Traffic is nothing like LA - it's not gridlock. When mapquest tells you a place is 15 min away - it really is 15 min away!

Well, those are my two cents. Of course, everyone's experiences are different. I think if you are unsure about a program, you should check it out for yourself since you know what you are looking for. Take what you hear from others with a grain of salt since everyone has different objectives. FYI - second looks are a must if you are interested in the program. All of the programs have told me that they keep track of the applicants who do a second look. Good luck to you all!

 

[ttjan]

I just wanted to add that I had a really good interaction with the program director at Kaiser--L.A. , both at the interview and the applicant party. I can see how someone could be a bit put off by him as he seems a bit shy, but was otherwise very friendly with me, even sending me two nice letters. I just wanted to add this to provide additional information on the program to anyone who was really interested.

 

[ghettomama]

I'm glad you had a better experience than me. Kaiser LA is not convincing me with the nice letters and phone calls. Hope you have fun there ttjan! 🙂

 

[not4rural]

Hi all, I'm a new member and I was reading the forum about California programs and I wanted to share my experiences as well.

UCI
My impression is that UCI is an academic program. The program director kept reiterating research opportunities during my interview. I have done a lot of research, but I have no interest in doing research in the future and I'm more interested in community service, which they don't seem to offer. Also, the chief resident told me that you can pretty much fly by any rotation without being noticed. Frankly, I don't want an easy program. Also, if you haven't noticed yet - there is trauma call! That was a major turn off for me.

UCLA Santa Monica
I really liked the program because of it's broad spectrum of training, which is a characteristic that I am looking for in a program, and the program director is really nice. However, every resident I had spoken to told me that not all faculty are enthusiastic about teaching. Some faculty members don't want you to see patients and would rather have you shadow them. Secondly, they rotate through a lot of sites that are FAR from each other, which makes it difficult to find a central location to live in. Not to mention Santa Monica is an expensive place.

Kaiser LA
I like the residents - they're a bunch of sarcastic people, but I was not impressed by them when I sat in on rounds. I liked the fact that they hang out with the other residents in the hospital as well. There is no family medicine inpatient team and they cross cover internal med pts too. Also, I have heard rumors about the program director not being personable and I didn't notice that the first time I interviewed. However, my second look confirmed that. I had contacted the program director to do a second look. When I showed up I introduced myself to him, but he did not greet me, welcome me, shake my hand or even look at me. He just told me not to sit in front of him so the inpatient team can sit. He handed me my name tag and did not say another word to me. After the inpatient team rounded, he told me to chase after the inpatient team if I want to see the inpatient service so I ran after them. I have never felt so insignificant in my life! I don't care how famous or smart you are - it doesn't hurt to be courteous to another person. Obviously, I don't want to work for someone who won't even acknowledge me. You guys can have my spot!

Harbor UCLA
I really wanted to clarify the amount of scutwork involved. The residents told me that you will have to draw your own blood cultures and ABG, which is the same as my med school so it's not something new to me. All routine blood draws are done by nurses. Also, depending on which service you are on, the amount of scutwork varies. On peds, you have a little more because they're kids so if you want things done quickly you have to do it yourself. If you are nice to the nurses, they will do a lot of things for you. As for radiology, I think that asking for permission is not a bad idea. It makes you think about the test you are ordering and the radiologist will tell you why you are wrong. Unlike my own personal experiences, the radiologist makes fun of the fm docs for ordering the wrong test without explaining or teaching them. Also, the radiologists will read the image results with residents. I want to learn how to read images well so that I will be more comfortable to do it myself when I am on my own. Yes, there is a lot of paperwork to fill out. However, keep in mind that scutwork only applies to the inpatient service so that's only a couple of months out of the year - it's not your entire 3 years. I like to do things myself anyways because I know things will get done so I don't mind putting up with it for a few months. Besides, I like the overall feel of the hospital. Everyone gets along with each other and they help each other out - it's a nurturing environment. Not to mention all the other specialties have a good reputation as well which enhances the learning environment. Lastly, I was really impressed with the attendings. They didn't pimp maliciously and they were very knowledgeable. The Harbor UCLA residents had good comraderie and felt like a "family" to me compared to the other residents at other programs.

UCSD
The UCSD residents are my other favorite group of residents. They have good comraderie and really look out for each other. I did my subi at UCSD and I loved it! The program director was my attending and he is really nice. He is compassionate, knowledgeable, and truly cares about his residents. He is open to suggestions and is always looking for ways to improve the program. The fm program is opposed, but you will only run into other specialties if you rotate at UCSD medical center in Hillcrest, VA, and Thornton hospital. Otherwise, you're by yourself. They rotate through a variety of systems in San Diego - Kaiser, Sharp, Scripps, etc. which is nice since you see how different systems work. The rumors that have been floating around are from UCSD medical students. The students in general are disgruntled because of the medical school curriculum and the school's treatment of their medical students - it is not a reflection of the family med program since the students do NOT rotate through family medicine service (it's an elective). I like UCSD because of the residents, the program director, broad spectrum of training and the location. For those of you who have never been to San Diego, you can go to the beach in the winter time and average temp is 70 deg year round (except occassional rain). Traffic is nothing like LA - it's not gridlock. When mapquest tells you a place is 15 min away - it really is 15 min away!

Well, those are my two cents. Of course, everyone's experiences are different. I think if you are unsure about a program, you should check it out for yourself since you know what you are looking for. Take what you hear from others with a grain of salt since everyone has different objectives. FYI - second looks are a must if you are interested in the program. All of the programs have told me that they keep track of the applicants who do a second look. Good luck to you all!

I thought the same thing about UCSD! except I didn't do a sub-I. I really liked the residents and the PD. The one thing I thought was a drawback was the driving around so much for different rotations. But the location is great and if the traffic isn't so bad then maybe it's not such a drawback.

 

[elizabeth5863]

UCLA Santa Monica
I really liked the program because of it's broad spectrum of training, which is a characteristic that I am looking for in a program, and the program director is really nice. However, every resident I had spoken to told me that not all faculty are enthusiastic about teaching. Some faculty members don't want you to see patients and would rather have you shadow them. Secondly, they rotate through a lot of sites that are FAR from each other,

🙁 Do you know if it's FM faculty that are not all interested in teaching, or faculty from other rotations? Which rotations do residents shadow pts in? The basic rotations or the subspecialty rotations?

(I didn't have a chance to ask the residents all my questions because we were running late and were stuck in traffic because of a car accident that day). Thanks for the information.

 

[ghettomama]

They didn't specify the name of the faculty members or the specific rotation, but it was a recurring theme. Other drawbacks about UCLA Santa Monica that a resident told me in an email:
Things that could improve: scheduling. since you're at several
different hospitals expecially your 1st year, sometimes those hospitals
don't get your schedule out until several days before the rotation. It was annoying b/c I couldn't plan my month socially. The other annoyance is driving. You have to leave 45 minutes to get from SM to Olive View or Cedars.

Hope that answered your question 🙂

 

[thedman888]

guess ventura already matched one person, did everyone receive the email from their pd?

 

[thedman888]

I just wanted to add that I had a really good interaction with the program director at Kaiser--L.A. , both at the interview and the applicant party. I can see how someone could be a bit put off by him as he seems a bit shy, but was otherwise very friendly with me, even sending me two nice letters. I just wanted to add this to provide additional information on the program to anyone who was really interested.

I also received a personalized letter from the PD at sunset. I wonder how many he sent out