Seeking Brutally Honest Advice

[PineappleGirl]

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Hi everyone,

I was hoping you all could offer me some brutally honest advice.

I am 26 years old.
I graduated from Boston University in 2003 with a double major in French Language and Literature and European History. My overall GPA was a 3.64. The only classes I took remotely related to pre-med were Calculus I, Algebra, and Sociobio. My grades were D, C+ and A-, respectively. After graduating, I started a Master's in history, decided I hated it, and wanted to pursue pre-med. I took courses in Physiology, Anatomy and Bio. My grades were B, B- and B+, respectively. I now have the rest of the pre-med reqs ahead of me. My overall, GPA including ugrad, grad and post-bacc classes is 3.63. My grad GPA is 3.7. My BCPM is now a disappointing 2.67. I honestly don't believe I can make more than a B+ or maybe, with divine intervention, an A- in the other sciences.

I have no volunteer or extracirriculars. I recently got my EMT certification but have no immediate plans of working as an EMT except for occasional volunteering with my school.

I met with the Dean of Admissions at my dream school earlier this week and he told me I would basically have to do an intensive post-bacc program, full-time , get mostly all As in the sciences, and rock the MCAT in order to have a decent shot at this school. I am in shock at the price of these full-time post-bacc programs. I had planned on continuing to work full-time and take the rest of my pre-reqs in the evening. But, he says this will not cut it.

I am getting very discouraged with this whole thing and am losing faith in myself. I am considering going for a PsyD or MA/MS in counseling psych instead. Or perhaps plodding through and trying for DO programs or a Caribbean school.

Please offer up your most honest advice. I assure you, I can take it. I just want to know whether I should get out now before I drown in debt. Just brutal honesty please! No need to be nice. 😀

 

[Sundarban1]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping you all could offer me some brutally honest advice.

I am 26 years old.
I graduated from Boston University in 2003 with a double major in French Language and Literature and European History. My overall GPA was a 3.64. The only classes I took remotely related to pre-med were Calculus I, Algebra, and Sociobio. My grades were D, C+ and A-, respectively. After graduating, I started a Master's in history, decided I hated it, and wanted to pursue pre-med. I took courses in Physiology, Anatomy and Bio. My grades were B, B- and B+, respectively. I now have the rest of the pre-med reqs ahead of me. My overall, GPA including ugrad, grad and post-bacc classes is 3.63. My grad GPA is 3.7. My BCPM is now a disappointing 2.67. I honestly don't believe I can make more than a B+ or maybe, with divine intervention, an A- in the other sciences.

I have no volunteer or extracirriculars. I recently got my EMT certification but have no immediate plans of working as an EMT except for occasional volunteering with my school.

I met with the Dean of Admissions at my dream school earlier this week and he told me I would basically have to do an intensive post-bacc program, full-time , get mostly all As in the sciences, and rock the MCAT in order to have a decent shot at this school. I am in shock at the price of these full-time post-bacc programs. I had planned on continuing to work full-time and take the rest of my pre-reqs in the evening. But, he says this will not cut it.

I am getting very discouraged with this whole thing and am losing faith in myself. I am considering going for a PsyD or MA/MS in counseling psych instead. Or perhaps plodding through and trying for DO programs or a Caribbean school.

Please offer up your most honest advice. I assure you, I can take it. I just want to know whether I should get out now before I drown in debt. Just brutal honesty please! No need to be nice. 😀

For sure you will need a post bacc. Luckily you are in Boston that has, without a doubt, the best post bacc for the least amount of money. Look into Harvard Extention School to do your post bacc work. Luckily you have not taken any of your pre-reqs so you can qualify for the diploma program.

 

[blee]

I would tend to agree with the dean on this one. It's certainly possible to get in by taking classes part-time and working, but since you've taken only a few courses and you haven't gotten great grades in them, it would be best to cut back or eliminate your work schedule to concentrate on your school work. It's a sacrifice, but only the first of many to getting in and becoming a doctor.

It won't be fun to give up your income and take on debt, but if you really want to become a physician, it's a relatively small price to pay. I would encourage you to decide whether you really want this career before committing to a post-bacc program, either by shadowing or volunteering for a little while.

If you remain interested, I encourage you to go for it! If you don't even try, I can guarantee you will never be a doctor. If, instead, you give this your best shot, the worst you can do is fail to get in. To me, this is MUCH better than asking myself "what if" for the rest of my working life. It's worth the educational loans, the year+ away from work, everything. Trust me, you do NOT want to work just to pay the bills.

 

[efex101]

Well, I think you have already gotten some "brutally honest" advice from the Dean. First of all you DO need to get A's from here on and you need to figure out WHAT i skeeping you from that (based on your other grades in sciences). Is it because you are biting off more than you can chew? is it because you have too much "other" things going on? is it a deficit in knowledge? so once you objectively look at this you can move on. Although you might want to work *and* go to school at night this is NOT what you might need right now. If you are having trouble doing extremely well in science classes then you need to FOCUS on that exclusively to do better right? so that advice seems sound to me. You should not get too discouraged but you need to make the choice IF you want to do what it takes to get in. This only you can answer once you decide then you roll up your sleeves and do it. Good luck!

 

[QofQuimica]

How set are you on going to this one school, Pineapple? I think if you are willing to cast your net a lot wider, you could greatly increase your chances of being successful.

Also, what is holding you back from getting those As? Are you just too busy with work? Other outside responsibilities? Doubts about whether medicine is the right field for you? Since you know that you have to get mostly As if you do the post bac, what else can you cut out of your schedule besides work so that you have the study time that you'll need to get those As?

I think that maybe a semester or two off might be helpful for you too. It sounds like you need some time to regroup and figure out what you really want to do with your life. You could try shadowing some physicians as well as talking to some psychologists to see which career you think you'd enjoy more. If you decide that you want to go into medicine, make sure you are prepared to really give it your all in your post-bac classes, with your MCAT studying, and with your applications. If you decide you want to go into psych, that's ok too, but don't go into psych if what you really want is to go into medicine. People overcome all kinds of obstacles to get into medical school and get through medical school, including poor previous grades. You don't have to be an uber-genius to do it, but you do have to work very hard.

Hope these ideas are helpful, and good luck to you. 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping you all could offer me some brutally honest advice.

I am 26 years old.
I graduated from Boston University in 2003 with a double major in French Language and Literature and European History. My overall GPA was a 3.64. The only classes I took remotely related to pre-med were Calculus I, Algebra, and Sociobio. My grades were D, C+ and A-, respectively. After graduating, I started a Master's in history, decided I hated it, and wanted to pursue pre-med. I took courses in Physiology, Anatomy and Bio. My grades were B, B- and B+, respectively. I now have the rest of the pre-med reqs ahead of me. My overall, GPA including ugrad, grad and post-bacc classes is 3.63. My grad GPA is 3.7. My BCPM is now a disappointing 2.67. I honestly don't believe I can make more than a B+ or maybe, with divine intervention, an A- in the other sciences.

I have no volunteer or extracirriculars. I recently got my EMT certification but have no immediate plans of working as an EMT except for occasional volunteering with my school.

I met with the Dean of Admissions at my dream school earlier this week and he told me I would basically have to do an intensive post-bacc program, full-time , get mostly all As in the sciences, and rock the MCAT in order to have a decent shot at this school. I am in shock at the price of these full-time post-bacc programs. I had planned on continuing to work full-time and take the rest of my pre-reqs in the evening. But, he says this will not cut it.

I am getting very discouraged with this whole thing and am losing faith in myself. I am considering going for a PsyD or MA/MS in counseling psych instead. Or perhaps plodding through and trying for DO programs or a Caribbean school.

Please offer up your most honest advice. I assure you, I can take it. I just want to know whether I should get out now before I drown in debt. Just brutal honesty please! No need to be nice. 😀

It's hard to give you much advice when most of your science courses are still ahead of you as is the MCAT. Your overall GPA is currently still fine, and if you got "mostly As" in the remaining sciences, got some clinical experience, and broke 30 on the MCAT you ought to have a decent shot at someplace allopathic, albeit perhaps not your "dream school". If you don't think you can break out of the B range in the sciences, or doubt you will do well at the MCAT (these are usually correlated) that will likely be a big hurdle -- med schools want to see that you can excel in the sciences because that is what the first two years are all about. DO would be a bit more forgiving on some of the numerical stats, and carribean is certainly always an option but a harder road.
No real advice as to when to cut your losses and move on, because most of us took a plunge and risked financial chaos to make this dream a reality. Good luck.

 

[njbmd]

<SNIP>
Please offer up your most honest advice. I assure you, I can take it. I just want to know whether I should get out now before I drown in debt. Just brutal honesty please! No need to be nice. 😀

Hi there,
You have gotten some very good advice from the Dean. Now you have to figure out if you want to invest the time and money in taking his/her advice. A post-bacc is a very expensive option and by your previous science performances, you have some extensive prep to work on as you need to get extremely good grades to offset some of your poor grades.

If you are willing to put in some quality time, figure out why your grades in science have been so low. Are you poor in math? Do you have poor study habits? All of these things will more than haunt you in a post bacc and later on in medical school should you get in. You NEED to figure out how to correct these things before you invest any more tuition money.

The course you have chosen is going to be very difficult unless you know that you can significantly raise your averages. This adds up to getting As in everything from here on out and doing very well on the MCAT. Is it possible? Yes, but you have to be ready to do everything in your power and put the time to achieve your goal.

Sure, there are other options like offshore medical schools but at present, you do not have even the basics well mastered. You could easily find yourself throwing money at an offshore school and not able to graduate or practice medicine in the United States.

What you DO have on your side, is plenty of time. You HAVE to take your time and do very, very well in any pre-med coursework from here on out. You also have some wisdom of experience and maturity too. Figure out what you need and then plot a realistic means to get to your goal. Above all, do not take any pre-med course unless you are thoroughly prepared i.e. good math skills for General Chemistry and General Physics.

njbmd 🙂

 

[mshheaddoc]

I also agree with alot of the advice on here. You still have 4 classes to take and if you do well in them then your GPA will be on the rise. Those two math classes are hurting you. Would you retake at all? You could try to apply to a broad range of schools after you finish your prereqs and take your MCAT (with an above average) and see if you get in. If not you could then strengthen your app by doing a post bacc. Depends on how long you want to drag this out.

 

[PineappleGirl]

Many thanks to everyone for your suggestions!!! 🙂

I am considering not taking classes this summer and instead doing some shadowing and volunteering. I'd also like to maybe look into a very introductory math course to see if I can figure out what my issues with math are and possible retake the algebra and calc classes (which would be helpful for DO apps).

I also wanted to make it clear I would certainly consider other schools outside my dream school. This was a large, private, allo school in Boston (no, not Harvard). I am definitely open to schools in other areas and to DO.

Anyone else want to weigh in with some advice?

Any comments much appreciated!

 

[Sundarban1]

Bottom line: You need a post bacc, HES is the best in your area.

 

[CatsandCradles]

Hi PineappleGirl,

Don't loose hope. Hang in there.

About the extracurricular and volunteer work:

1) You made a fairly good choice getting that EMT-B. Perhaps you could look into doing more work with that.
2) Or you can do other volunteer work. It doesn't have to be medically orientated either. For example I spent some time with a homeless outreach center.
3) Since you still have some time ahead of you, my adivise is, if it is possible to do both EMT work and also some sort of social work.

You don't have to go crazy or anthying, just spend some quality time in some type of community work that you find interesting. Chances are, you'll be able to write much better essays or applications to medical schools after you've done some sort of community/social work that you enjoy.

 

[Febrifuge]

Since this situation is not too different from my own, I guess I'll be the one to say this: Have ya thought about PA school?

Seriously, for some people (e.g., me), this is the best possible road to practicing medicine -- but there's a catch. ASSUMING that the things you care about, and don't care about, line up a particular way, then PA could be (nobody believes this, but it's nonetheless true) a better way to go than MD.

But, as Darth Vader once said, "search your feelings." You should clarify, not just for people at interviews who will be asking but also for yourself, what exactly is the goal. If becoming a physician is the thing, the prize, the shiznit, the ultimate, then you need to think about whether you're ready, willing and able to do what you need to do to become a physician. In that situation, you'd be miserable as a PA (or a nurse, or a PT, or what have you.) Good luck to you.

 

[rgerwin]

I"m then assuming the school was either Tufts or BU. First, there are several carib schools that will definitely allow you to practice in the US, but I don't think you're there yet. Second, DO schools won't count your calc into your BCP score, so calculate it without that. I think, especially with your life experience and overall GPA, that DO schools and less ritzy MD schools would be a very real possibility. Get a 27+ MCAT (just to be onthe safe side), and really spend the next year beefing up your clinical experience. Maybe take a class or two at harvard extension, but then just go for it.

 

[jason3278]

If you're one of those people who sees DO as something less, please don't apply. Those of us who want to go DO, or are happy with either medical degree don't need a colleague who has low self esteem.

 

[rgerwin]

Actually, I'm applying DO. However, it is valid point that often DO schools love older students who know what they want, and they are more likely to look less at numbers and more at the applicant as a whole. Clinical experience is a must, but a 30+ MCAT isn't. And, her overall GPA is great.

 

[bkflaneur]

Many thanks to everyone for your suggestions!!! 🙂

I am considering not taking classes this summer and instead doing some shadowing and volunteering. I'd also like to maybe look into a very introductory math course to see if I can figure out what my issues with math are and possible retake the algebra and calc classes (which would be helpful for DO apps).

I also wanted to make it clear I would certainly consider other schools outside my dream school. This was a large, private, allo school in Boston (no, not Harvard). I am definitely open to schools in other areas and to DO.

Anyone else want to weigh in with some advice?

Any comments much appreciated!

Why don't you start by taking gen chem at the Harvard Extension School and working part time? If you can swing that, I think it's a good compromise. Then if you want to go forward, you could go full-time with physics, organic, and bio. I had doubts about the whole process, so I started by taking gen chem and went full-time for the rest of it.

 

[MiesVanDerMom]

I agree. I have kids, so I was terrified of starting the process, spending lots of money and then having it not work out. So, I started with the hardest class I jad left to take (for me, organic chem) and i thought, if I don't do REALLY well, I will move on with my life. I've been taking my classes one at a time in the evening since I have kids. If you can't do full-time post=bacc for practical reasons, I wouldn't worry about it. I agree you mainly just need to work on the why not getting A's? question. Good luck to you!

Oh, and I dropped out of my History masters program too! Humanities/soc sciences grad programs have like a 60% drop out rate. I'm very stressed trying to spin it positively in my PS, but such is the non-trad path...

 

[jason3278]

Actually, I'm applying DO. However, it is valid point that often DO schools love older students who know what they want, and they are more likely to look less at numbers and more at the applicant as a whole. Clinical experience is a must, but a 30+ MCAT isn't. And, her overall GPA is great.

I was actually refering to the OPs comments.

 

[rgerwin]

Sorry!!!!

 

[PineappleGirl]

If you're one of those people who sees DO as something less, please don't apply. Those of us who want to go DO, or are happy with either medical degree don't need a colleague who has low self esteem.

I don't have any problem whatsoever with DO, would consider applying to DO schools and would gladly attend one. I am not sure where in my posts you got the idea that I am anti-DO. Maybe because I mentioned it in the same sentence with Caribbean schools, but that was just as a list of other alternatives and in no way is a personal judgement on the quality of DO or Carribean schools.

 

[PineappleGirl]

Oh, and I dropped out of my History masters program too! Humanities/soc sciences grad programs have like a 60% drop out rate. I'm very stressed trying to spin it positively in my PS, but such is the non-trad path...

Thanks for the advice. I talked discussed the whole dropping out of the history Master's with the dean I met with too. He said not be too concerned and that as long as I could put a positive spin on it and provide lots of very convincing reasons for the switch from history to medicine it would not be a big problem. He did caution though to make sure I thoroughly explain "why medicine" and not just "why not history". I also made the mistake of casually saying something to the effect of "well history is not the most practical of fields" to which he respond with something to the effect of "well, is that the only reason you are purusing medicine, because it is practical?". I would advise against saying something like that. I had heard that on these boards that some interviewers/ adcom people were not that put off if you talked about going into medicine to make a comfortable living, but I guess this is not a general rule.