Self-medicating with Antibiotics

Veterinary Science Graduate Certificate from UofI
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DollyyLlama

DollyyLlama

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Today I was bitten by a cat on the palm of my hand. There are four puncture marks that stung and bled a little at first, but after soaking with chlor-hex and betadine, feel fine. I also took an Ibuprofen. The other techs recommended 375mg of Clavamox twice daily for five days, plus soaking and silver sulfadine cream, having gone through this regimen a few times themselves.

I'm a little nervous to take Clavamox off-label like this- I'm wondering, Does it work for humans? Is it the right dose and number of days? I know it's illegal, but that doesn't bother me much since everyone at the clinic does it and it beats waiting at the ER for many hours and then maybe being denied antibiotics (which happened to my co-worker, and led to her being hospitalized for sepsis).

So I'm asking for opinions/ experiences. Do you or your co-workers self-medicate with antibiotics? Which one, how much, and for how long? When do you see a doctor, and when do you just go with washing and topical antibiotics?

My alternative is to try to make an appointment at Kaiser tomorrow to see a human doctor- they may be able to look at the bite and tell me whether oral antibiotics are even necessary. I will look into that now..
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I've seen many a coworker get bit by a cat. I myself have also suffered a cat bite. Typically it's either mild or REALLY bad. We follow the same protocol with the scrubbing and what not. In the rare case that it is bad enough to require antibiotics we go to the hospital. Sometimes the hospital gives antibiotics and sometimes they don't. My feeling is if it's just a mild bite with some swelling and nothing too big I'd let it go. If it seems to get really bad go to the doctor and see what's up.

As far as self medicating, I'd be a little weary of that as well.
 
You NEED to see a doctor. You SHOULD be covered by workman's comp. I can NOT stress this enough; bites CAN AND DO go bad, and your hand has a lot of important, complex working parts to it that can be damaged by infection. Your body has a lot of complex working parts to it that can be damaged by improper medications. Just because it worked for so and so does NOT mean you won't have an infection, adverse reaction, etc. Go see a doctor. Do not take human medical advice from a vet tech or even a vet. No disrespect intended, but YOU need to look out for your best interests, and do that with a medical professional who is obligated to do his or her best to serve your medical best interests.

I may be more keen on medical treatment due to my experience in zoo medicine. I consider all bites that break skin, especially resulting in punctures, to be serious and worth seeing a doctor.
 
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DollyyLlama, I was in the same situation about 2 months ago, I got into a tango with a cat and had multiple bite wounds on my hand, my boss made me go in to the doctor because cat bites are the worst for getting infections, not to mention they were deep and on my hand. My hand swelled up a lot and I wraped it that night. When I went into the doctor he put me on augmentin ( which is like an equivialant of clavamox) for 14 days, and I also had to get a tetnus shot. He told me not to wrap it at all because then it seals in the bacteria, and he also said that cat bites have the highest chances of causing serious infection that may need IV antibiotics. I then had to go in for a recheck 4 days later to make sure the antibiotics were working. If I were you I would have it checked out, because workmens comp should cover the expenses. If it was a dog bite i would say you could attend to your wounds yourself but because it was a cat i wouldn't take any chances.
 
Go to the doctor. As sumstorm said, it should be covered by workman's comp.

I had an incident with a cat myself about 2 months ago. Cleaned it with Chlorhexaderm and betadine...The ER flushed with saline and bandaged it up. They also put me on augmentin...

Even with all of that it got infected...I took care of that one myself.

Self-medicating might work....but it could also lead to messing you up in the long run.

Hope the hand feels better!!!
 
In my case I go on the severity of the bite. I tend to get called in to help with the more fractious cats so over the course of many years I've had my share of bites. I've only gone to a doctor about a bite once because it was over a joint and the area swelled pretty quickly. I also scrub the hell out of them with betadine and cause them to bleed a bit which hurts at the time but helps move some of that bacteria out.

My theory is people in general jump to antibiotics too quickly for things that may heal on their own. On the flip side, yes cat bites are much more likely to get infected and yes those infections can get pretty serious so I'm not trying to make light of that but most of the ones I've experienced and seen turn out ok sans AB's. Hope your hand feels better.
 
Absolutely go to the doctor. Cat bites on the hand are VERY likely to get infected and you could actually suffer some nasty permanent damage. You basically have a puncture wound, and that's a really hospitable environment for anaerobes.The most likely pathogen is Pasteurella multocida, but old PM likes to invite friends to the party. Don't mess around with self-treatment, do it right and go to a physician,

Do you think it would be wise for a pharmacy tech to medicate her pet without seeing a veterinarian? Same basic scenario.
 
ok, thanks everyone! I've called the advice nurse and scheduled an urgent-care appointment with a (human) doctor for tomorrow morning.

I'm still interested in hearing your opinions and experiences on the matter!
 
It was policy at the small animal emergency clinic I used to work at that anyone who was bitten by anything leave work and go to the EMO clinic. While liability was a major factor in this policy, they also recognized that even a seemingly harmless bite can turn into a nasty infection. Go to the Doctor!
 
I agree to go see an MD, but here's an interesting tid bit...
My classmate came to school with some pretty wicked cuts and bites on her arm, and her arm was kinda purple and swollen. I asked what happened and she said she was shed up by a lovely kitty- she squeezed pus out of her arm the morning after the incident and it swelled up 3 times normal and by the time I saw it apparently it looked so much better (and it looked pretty awful). I asked what meds she was on and she said she didn't go to the doctor- she just cleaned it up herself. :eek: Personally I wouldn't dare take that chance, but she did fine!
 
Sorry! I didn't see your update. Good call. Sorry for the now unnecessary scolding!
 
I got bit by a cat about two weeks ago. It was an emergency case and I was trying to be gentle so I didn't scruff him as tight as I should have, and while we were putting a catheter in he got pissed and clamped down on me. Went to the doc and they put me on 875mg clavamox twice a day for a week.

Anyways, it's always good just to go to the doc even though they'll probably just give you clavamox, but you never know.
 
I had a cat bite a year back with a couple decent puncture marks and I did my best to clean it up. Went off to my other job hoping all would be fine and by the time I was 12 hours out from the bite wound there was a nice vissible red patch around the wound on my hand. It was warm, swollen and clearly growing with time so I knew I was screwed and went to the ER at midnight on a saturday....

They attending drew a circle a couple mm out from the red area in pen and told me to see a doc immediatley if it got beyond that point and started me on augmentin bid for 10 days. The swelling stopped getting worse within about 12 hours and every cleared up in like 36-48 hours.

I always wonder about the use of NSAID's in a situations like this. Wouldn't they prevent the inflammitory response due to the infection and make it less obvious that something bad is brewing in your hand?
 
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I don't think the NSAID's would inhibit the inflammatory repsonse so much that it would make a significant difference in the body being able to get the proper immune response to the area. I think if anything they would help reduce enough of the swelling to lower the incidence of tissue damage, not to mention the pain from all the swelling.

And :eek: to anyone who would let their arm get that infected it turned purple and still didn't go to the doctor!! I'm a minimalist with bites but not to that extreme. If my body started turning colors like that I'd be hauling to the nearest ER.
 
CatVet2Be said:
I don't think the NSAID's would inhibit the inflammatory repsonse so much that it would make a significant difference in the body being able to get the proper immune response to the area.
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I was thinking more of the response of the mind than the body. When we have to make the decision between "Crap, I really need to go to the ER now and get started on antibiotics" versus "This doesn't look too bad, maybe I'll just wait 2 or 3 days and see what happens".
 
My dad is a human infectious diseases doctor and when I was working at a small animal clinic, he always told me that if I got any form of a bite from a cat (if skin was broken even very very minimally), then I needed antibiotics. Cat bites are some of the worst as far as likelihood of getting infected.
 
I know this is in the spirit of cooperation but soliciting medical advice is a no-no on this site.

I'm glad that you are going to see someone, though.

Puncture wounds are usually irrigated and not closed to allow for drainage. In the hand, there's a tendon sheath that encircles the palm and part of the fingers that if infected, will quickly spread the infection to the rest of the hand. Your hand will swell, turn hot and hurt to lift any of your fingers.

The standard treatment is irrigation, xray to rule out foreign body, i.e., broken tooth, then prophylactic antibiotics. If that treatment fails, surgery is required to open up the tendon sheath which is then irrigated out. Cat bites are nothing to mess around with.

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What I took from the OP -

"Is self medicating with antibiotics wrong/illegal?"

Least thats what I am waiting to hear answered.

Oh, and assuming you go to the doctor, and MD tells you "Xmg X-biotic, X x day, can you (again, legally) use meds from the vet clinic (if DVM says its alright)

Despite what everyone is saying, and despite what I KNOW to be the right thing to do, I've never gone to a doctor for a bite.

Thing is, you go to an MD or ER after an initial bite wound, they are typically going to do the same thing you do for the wound (clean, possibly irrigate, suture if needed). EVEN after all that, the chance that it infected still seems to random (again, cat bites here)

IMO, the time to go to the doctor is 2-3 days later if it gets bad. Because from personal experience, the initial MD visit is a waste of time and $. But... its the right thing to do, and if I ever own my own practice, any tech gets bitten, its off to MD and take the rest of the day off.
 
Augmentin 875mg BID x10 days. Typical rx.

Veterinary stuff may not have enough clavulanic acid as the human stuff, so I would stick with the human stuff.

If you still have symptoms after your course of antibiotics is through, get it cultured.

My 2 cents (which is not a substitute for a doctor visit).
 
Regarding legality, I don't think it is technically legal to use antibiotics without a prescription (I don't know how samples fit into this, but I believe they are only supposed to be given out by a physician), and it would be illegal for a veterinarian to prescribe medication for human use.

I'm glad the OP is going to the physician.
 
First off, I absolutely agree with everyone else, and am glad the OP is going to go see a doctor! Second, throughout all of the injuries I have sustained at, and outside of, work...I have never EVER experienced pain like the time I got a deep knuckle infection.... story time (included with a picture!)...sorry it will be a little long:

Last August (2008), hurricane Fay had just blown through (I was located in Orlando)...before going to work every morning, I would let my doggie out, and my cat would sit in the lenai; only after hurricane fay, my lenai got mildly flooded, so who knows what kind of crap/bacteria got washed into my lenai.... I let my dog back in, and then as usual, I picked up my cat to bring him back in so I could leave for work. I don't know what happened (I didn't hear or see anything), but my kitty panicked and launched from my arms like he was fighting for his life. This resulted in 2 puncture wounds to my left pointer finger (at the base of the knuckle)...just seeing how deep the punctures were, and the fact that he had just been sitting in the dirty lenai, I knew this was not good...I immediately ran my hand under running water and luckily kept a vial of iodine at home that I got from work. Hand throbbing and swelling, I went to work instead of a Dr. (haha, I'm a masocist)...after work, I went to the walk in clinic (in my parent's town, bc I drove 2 hours after work to spend the weekend with them...hey, this injury was not going to ruin my plans) ; got a tetanus shot and given augmentin (this was a Saturday). So I wake up sunday, continue taking the AB, but my hand is still extremely painful, hot, red, and swollen...my mother asks me if I want to go to the ER sunday night bc things are not looking better, but it was like 10pm and I was tired, so we made a plan to return to the clinic monday morning to get my hand checked again. BTW, for some reason, the clinic kept asking me if it was a cat bite, and didn't believe me that my cat punctured my hand (not bite it). Anywho, so the Doc comes in, looks at my hand, and confirms that I have been on Augmentin for a day now...then he told me I have 2 options. One, I go to the ER right now and admit myself and get started on IV ABs for a few days, along with being seen by an infectious disease specialist. Or two, switch up ABs and get very aggressive with treatment. He said we could give option 2 a shot first, but if things were not getting better within 24 hours I was ER-bound. Sooo, I stopped taking Augmentin and started taking 2 different ABs... Tetracycline, and Sulfamethoxazole-tmp, and I had to go into the clinic every morning and get a shot of Rocephin (an extremely painful shot in the butt)..... all in all, I missed a full week of work (they obviously were very understanding)... I cannot begin to explain the pain (and the fact that your hand is completely immobilized), and never wish that upon anyone else...here's a couple pictures (in that 2nd one, my pointer was swollen in that hook position)...sorry they are so big. :oops:



 
Wow... Thats impressive.

But... you kind of made my point -

Initial doctor visit = cleaning + Ab
Got bad, Doctor gave more aggressive treatment.

I assume it all ended well?
 
No Imagination said:
"Is self medicating with antibiotics wrong/illegal?"

Least thats what I am waiting to hear answered.
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The law is something like: prescription drugs can be dispensed or prescribed only by a practitioner licensed by law to administer such drugs. Veterinarians are not licensed to administer drugs to humans.

Going after a vet who takes some antibiotics is well down the list of things the DEA worries about but technically it is illegal. It's also unethical

EDIT: I see the OP is not a vet, but the law still applies.
 
Yeah I agree with you No Imagination...it sort of is a crapshoot...when you first get a wound, you clean it and start ABs and hope the infection responds well to those ABs....it just really sucks when it doesn't!!!

And yes, it all ended well...I only missed a week of work. Total, it took a couple weeks before all the swelling, pain, and bruising was gone. The overload of ABs completely wiped me out though, and I was so happy when I finished them (but would gladly do it again vs. getting sepsis)! Early in the treatment my mind ran wild with panic... "oh my lord, if this spreads, and doesn't get better...what if I lose my finger... what if they amputate my whole hand?!... how could I become a vet with one hand!!!..." . Well, thank god for strong Antibiotics!!! :rolleyes:
 
Just don't take the baytril. ;)

(now I wait and see who gets it)
 
Thought I'd add in a tiny tidbit :)

Tea Tree oil.
The stuff is fantastic! Definitely go see the doc, but to help with infections, tea tree oil is wonderful, and versatile. My roommate uses it on cold sores, bug bites, scratches, and more.

I got bitten by my own cat (lol, sad I know) a couple years ago. (Long story short: I was upset and stressed, I hadn't had my cat long, didn't realize he had a very short fuse.) He bit my hand pretty badly, about 4 puncture wounds and several deep scratches (still have a nice scar from one), and I ended up 5 hours away and had left my wallet (and medical card) at home and my hand swelled up and looked horrible and I couldn't get to the doc because I didn't have any of my money or my medical card. So I went to a natural food store and got tea tree oil and some pill form of an herb to reduce inflammation and it did the trick. (Had I had the option, I would have seen the doctor though!)
Thought I'd pass on the info on the wonders of tea tree oil. :) Hope your bite heals well and quickly!
 
One of my friends just had to have surgery for a cat bite that punctured her tendon sheath (wrist region) that no other therapy was able to fix. She's had limited use of her hand all year (it's painful) and now has no use of it for a month plus.

I'd say the inconvenience of going to the doctor is well worth it when this is a possible outcome. I don't know how severe the bite was/appeared to be at the time she was bitten, but it's been a HUGE burden to her for the better part of a year now. :thumbdown:
 
I was a pretty disturbed when reading this post. According to the AMA, not even a physician cannot self-medicate due the fact there has to be an objective examination prior to the prescription of a drug. But what really frightens me is that your techs were recommending antibiotics to you…when they don’t even have that authority when it comes to animals in most, if not all states. This sounds like a great way for a both vet and their techs to loose licenses to practice. Good call on the going to the appropriate doc and I hope your hand isn’t feeling too shabby.
 
Ok, my personal strategy:

Scrub and watch and wait. It's that simple. A wound should heal. It should never look or feel worse one day than it did the day before.

Localized swelling is okay. Localized redness is okay. Redness and swelling going toward the distal aspect of the limb or digit are probably okay (localized infection, basically) but merit very close watching and lots of extra disinfecting. Red streaks extending proximal to the bite, swollen lymph nodes, or any other signs of systemic infection are not okay and merit a trip to the urgent care center right away.

Now, I am in kind of a weird situation since I'm allergic to every antibiotic I've ever been exposed to. Prophylactic antibiotics are just not an option for me. But I've never had anything more than a localized infection, and I've been bitten more times than I'd care to think about!
 
Thank you for all the well wishes. The bite was a little tender this morning, and the Dr. took a quick look and put me on the ten-day course of augmentin. I feel better that I'm not leaving it as much to chance.

tkim said:
I know this is in the spirit of cooperation but soliciting medical advice is a no-no on this site.
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That isn't quite what I asked, or at least, what I meant. I intended to say that I was weighing my options, and ask not "What should I do?" but more, "What have other people done?" I guess that's not a strong line to have drawn, though. The techs told me what they had done for bites, but I don't consider that "medical advice" and I would not hold anyone else responsible for my decision (unless they forbade me to seek treatment, which they would never do).

No Imagination said:
IMO, the time to go to the doctor is 2-3 days later if it gets bad. Because from personal experience, the initial MD visit is a waste of time and $. But... its the right thing to do, and if I ever own my own practice, any tech gets bitten, its off to MD and take the rest of the day off.
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Right. This difference between theory and practice was what I was trying to get at. I knew that some people would be scandalized at the thought of self-medicating, as Airborne Vet expressed, and I can see why. Definitely there could be serious consequences if something went wrong. Then again, I could point out more than a few OSHA violations at any clinic I've worked at. There's what we know we should do, and what we actually do, and I have a feeling that self-medicating does happen. I'm curious how common it is, which is why I posed the question. As I thought about it, it seemed like an interesting ethical issue for a discussion.

Another thought- when I am bitten or scratched, my main reaction is embarrassment. I worry that my co-workers will doubt my competence. Now I've been there long enough to feel comfortable asserting my right to medical treatment and worker's comp, but still I asked myself, Will my boss be mad at me? In that respect, I can imagine that sometimes a staff member might just want to take care of it on their own rather than going through the proper documentation.

I hesitated before starting the thread and wondered if it was risky (to me or especially to my clinic) to even bring it up. But I figured that the forums were as good a place as any, since we can talk frankly with some degree of anonymity (as much as we choose to have, at least). I haven't been the most protective of my identifying details, but even if some authority found out where I work, nobody did anything illegal in this particular situation (well okay, I had taken some Clavamox home, but I'm going to return them). Alright- end of disclaimer.
 
DollyyLlama said:
nobody did anything illegal in this particular situation (well okay, I had taken some Clavamox home, but I'm going to return them). Alright- end of disclaimer.
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Uh, that would be theft of drugs. Unless you paid for them or were given them, which would imply that the dispenser was okay with you using the meds, which I doubt.

I know you're returning them, but still. If I take someone else's car then return it the next day, it's still theft.

I'm not trying to be a total dick, really. It's just how it's coming out. Sorry.
 
Clavamox is usually the drug of choice for cat bite wounds, as it is indicated for the bacteria in the cat's mouth. In human medicine, it's called Augmentin, and it's the exact same formulation of amoxicillin and clavulanate potassium.

The thing is, Clavamox is hello expensive, but the human form (875 mg amoxicillin/125 mg clavulanate potassium) is generic - I got 20 tablets for $5. Even with the urgent care visit factored in (feral cat bite, yay), it came to $35 total, whereas the same dosage would have cost over $100 in Clavamox (clinic cost, not client cost).

Also, after years of hearing clients bemoan Clavamox for making their cats puke, I can confirm that it really does cause vomiting :)
 
tkim said:
Uh, that would be theft of drugs. Unless you paid for them or were given them, which would imply that the dispenser was okay with you using the meds, which I doubt.
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Alright, you got me- my defense wouldn't hold up in court. I will have to trust you all not to turn me in.. please? :oops:
 
Dolly Llama you are funny. You handled that accusation very cooly - maybe its that your from San Fran. I hope to get that California Cool when I head out to Western :D

This thread has actually been suprising to me. Why are people so quick to judge, accuse and dole out legal advice? I thought the question was interesting and certainly relevant. People self medicate - in the interest of saving money and time. Is it right? No, but that wont stop certain individuals. Just saying its "wrong, unethical, illegal" isnt what you were asking. It reminds me of the argument that we shouldnt teach kids about sex ed because then they will start having sex. Maybe its just me...I dont believe things work this way.

Just my humble opinion. :whistle:
 
I've self medicated once or twice (cephalexin) for dog bites, but cat bites are not something I'd mess with.
On the other hand, the one time I did get a truly nasty cat bite, the first doctor was not helpful. He pronounced it a superficial wound and refused to dispense antibiotics or analgesics. When hand was not improved by next day, he advised waiting it out. Went to different doctor the day after that, who decided that pus oozing from four half-inch-deep puncture wounds and a fever of 102 did, in fact, merit medical attention :bang:
 
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david594 said:
Just don't take the baytril. ;)

(now I wait and see who gets it)
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I get it :)
Thankfully I have not had to learn that lesson firsthand. There's nothing quite like the sudden and overwhelming urge to lick one's bloody surgical instruments....
 
AgtOrange said:
The thing is, Clavamox is hello expensive, but the human form (875 mg amoxicillin/125 mg clavulanate potassium) is generic - I got 20 tablets for $5. Even with the urgent care visit factored in (feral cat bite, yay), it came to $35 total, whereas the same dosage would have cost over $100 in Clavamox (clinic cost, not client cost).
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Are you sure your insurance didnt pick up most of the cost of the generic amoxi/clav? Because I could swear even the generic runs well over $50 for that quantity.
 
AgtOrange said:
I get it :)
Thankfully I have not had to learn that lesson firsthand. There's nothing quite like the sudden and overwhelming urge to lick one's bloody surgical instruments....
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Whhhaaaaa???
 
david594 said:
Are you sure your insurance didnt pick up most of the cost of the generic amoxi/clav? Because I could swear even the generic runs well over $50 for that quantity.
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It probably did, but my insurance sure wouldn't cover Clavamox :)

aspiringDVM said:
Whhhaaaaa???
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Baytril causes hallucinations in humans...and not the fun kind, apparently
 
LLIPPY, are you saying street drugs are okay because people are going use them anyway, despite being illegal. What about people who don't wear their seatbelt? Normally they make it home in one piece, and if they do wreck its only themselves they're hurting…right? You may view self-medication in a different light, but I respectfully disagree with you. I do not buy the excuse that something is justifiable because so many people break the law. These laws aren't on the books to be a pain in the butt, but to protect the public from itself. I understand the world doesn't always work this way but I feel everyone should strive to live up to certain standards and encourage others to do the same.

DollyyLlama, I applaud you for being forthcoming and posting this interesting topic. I've certainly pondered how certain drugs would affect me, as I'm sure many others have as well, but the line is drawn there. It just seemed that line was crossed.

As for the situation…workers comp is around for reasons exactly like your own. That's why its there. Why risk one's health when you don't have to? Just imagine how far up the creek without a paddle you could be if you suddenly had an adverse reaction to the drug. Would an insurance policy even cover you at that point? Would you be prosecuted for theft when people start finding out? If so, would you now have criminal record stating you stole a controlled substance? Would something like that effectively end someone's vet school bid since they'd have to report it to VMCAS? I'm asking these questions because I don't know. Also, these questions were not directed specifically at you, but hopefully anyone would ask themselves questions like this before even considering going through with the action.

Sorry if for being a downer, but the Army taught me to be a pessimist and to always plan for the worst possible scenario…that way you're usually pleasantly surprised, or at least never disappointed with the outcome.

BTW… according to a study I was reading, apparently over 20% of physicians admitted to self-medicating in the past. I'd assume the actual number is much higher, especially with the abundance of those free samples the drug companies love to give away so often. This certainly is an important issue.
 
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StayingHopeful said:
My dad is a human infectious diseases doctor and when I was working at a small animal clinic, he always told me that if I got any form of a bite from a cat (if skin was broken even very very minimally), then I needed antibiotics. Cat bites are some of the worst as far as likelihood of getting infected.
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My dad is also an infectious disease specialist (small world!). He said that >80% of cat bites get infected while only ~5% of dog bites. Why? They have a tendency to go much deeper and even puncture the tendon sheath (which the resident, whose SN I can't remember) pointed out.

That's not something I would ever be afraid to assert my right to workman's comp over. It is your hand and you are the only one who has a real interest in ensuring that it stays functioning! I mean, I might hesitate to bring it up if I was in a really hostile work environment, but ultimately you have to stand up for your rights. Good on you, DollyLlama for doing just that!

I had a coworker who was bitten and went to Urgent Care. While there, she was prescribed Augmentin. Our office manager acted bewildered since we already had Clavamox. But, the simple fact is that Clavamox isn't licensed for use in humans--what if there was a bad batch or something? You would be SOL for any sort of action against the drug company. The clinic should be willing to pay for the human equivalent of the drug. Period.
 
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Ben and Me said:
That's not something I would ever be afraid to assert my right to workman's comp over. It is your hand and you are the only one who has a real interest in ensuring that it stays functioning! I mean, I might hesitate to bring it up if I was in a really hostile work environment, but ultimately you have to stand up for your rights. Good on you, DollyLlama for doing just that!
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I read above where someone said they thought it was better to see a doctor a few days after if it looked like it wasn't improving. Workman's comp, depending on local laws and statutes, can be limited in duration. Incidents often need to be filed immediatly (unless unable to medically...in other words the individual is rushed to emergency at which point a supervisor should file) at minimum, to insure that comp will be provided. Also, in the case where the cat scratches were infected, the individual said she went to work before seeking medical care. That is a pretty long delay (not critiqueing the poster, just an observation) even if it was cleaned at the surface, bacteria are very fast producers, and it doesn't take more than a couple of hours to have prolific growth. I may be more cautious coming from the non-profit & zoo world, but we were very strict on injuries caused by animals; once all humans were safe (in other words animals/humans were seperated and involved animals safely confined), the injured human was transported to a medical facility for immediate evaluation, and could not return to work without written permission and a treatment plan by a qualified medical professional. At times another person provided transportation. In 5 years we only had once incident where initial treatment wasn't recieved within 2 hours, and that was due to an animal escape of a large cat, where attempting to remove the injured individual (not a life threatening injury) would have put that individual at risk (until we secured the large cat.) I can also say that we never had anyone develop infections, and I believe that was because of the enforcement of that policy. Also, people were not harrassed for reporting incidents (and it was a write up if you neglected to report an incident.)

I was bit in the face this year by an unvax'd dog. It wasn't a severe bite, but a canine in a really nasty mouth tore through my eyebrow, and it requird a dozen stitches. I was shocked when the vet suggested just glueing it together and popping some Abx. I went to the urgent care clinic where they lavaged it, stitched it, and put me on Abx. The only think that made me hesitate is that stitches are painful, and most of the drugs used to numb skin have no affect on me. The doc tried to numb me up, but I could describe every detail of what she was doing to me, and she admitted that the only other option was to send me somewhere that they could do more than a local. My biggest frustration with the whole thing is the owner took the dog (in kidney failure) to another place for euth in less than 10d and marked that the dog had NOT bitten anybody in the past 30d, even though the owner KNEW I had been bit in the face. Actually, his response was 'oh, yeah, he hates to be lifted up and he doens't growl or snap, he bites' when told about the bite. Argh!

I also kind of subscribe to the slippery slope theory of taking meds at a vet clinic. Start with Abx, then a year later a muscle relaxer when your back spasms...and onwards. Also, if one is ever accused of taking controlled substances, and co-workes have observed them taking other drugs, it can be a damning detail. I also do know of a case (in a med docs office) where an office manager took some prescription drug before leaving for the day (I believe it was a sample) and had an allergic reaction...or something along those lines and ended up in a hospital. My understanding was that the owner was offered two options; sacrifice the office manager as having stolen the drug which also made her responsible for all consequences, including legal, OR have some kind of fine for improper scripting and have higher liablility and malpractice insurance. Puts a doc in a tough position, and can make turn an employee into a sacraficial lamb.
 
sumstorm said:
Also, in the case where the cat scratches were infected, the individual said she went to work before seeking medical care. That is a pretty long delay (not critiqueing the poster, just an observation) even if it was cleaned at the surface, bacteria are very fast producers, and it doesn't take more than a couple of hours to have prolific growth.
Click to expand...

No offense taken! I readily admit that was probably the stupidest thing I could have done! Instead of thinking rationally and going to the doc, I was like "It's a saturday. The office is going to be so busy and they are going to die if I don't show!!!"... haha, it has also been brought to my attention (by my mother) that I am a horrible horrible patient! :smuggrin:
 
sorry for the multiple quotes!! my computer froze up and did weird things!!!!
 
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again, sorry about all that.
 
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There are better ways to increase your post count if thats your intention :)

SDN network has been wonky for a while now, best bet is hit "Post" once and Alt+Tab for a few minutes to avoid those 5x posts :)
 
kiki1983 said:
No offense taken! I readily admit that was probably the stupidest thing I could have done! Instead of thinking rationally and going to the doc, I was like "It's a saturday. The office is going to be so busy and they are going to die if I don't show!!!"... haha, it has also been brought to my attention (by my mother) that I am a horrible horrible patient! :smuggrin:
Click to expand...

:D I actually hate dealing with human doctors/nurses in general, but I had a lot of practice with late hubby (juv diabetes, dialysis, transplants, post-trans infections) so I have kind of come to accept the balance of it. I am grateful to have been in an environment that was so strict on P&P because I think I learned some valuable things about proactive vs reactive care. I just had my pre-exposure rabies, and I KNEW I was going to be sick, I always am with vax. All I wanted to do was go home and be sick in the privacy of my home, but I toughed out the HOUR they made me lay in a room while all I could think about was puking and how horrible the migraine was going to be. I know 5 years ago I would have argued with them (I can do the same thing at home on my own) but I have kind of developed a 'que sera, sera' attitude in the last ocuple of years to minor annoyances like that. I am glad your hand did get better and appreciate you sharing that story.
 
Once in my clinic we had a physician come in with a basset hound who had an infected bite wound from a fight. He had been giving his dog human antibiotics for a week and it only got worse. Turns out he just dosed the dog like a human that just weighed 50 lbs, and I guess it just doesn't work out that way
 
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