Self-Reporting an Expunged Institutional Action

[deleted1064789]

One of my classmates from undergrad has an IA for an academic integrity violation (unauthorized collaboration/plagiarism on a lab report). Since some schools expunge/destroy disciplinary records after a number of years, what's stopping an applicant from manipulating the details of their IA once it is expunged? I can see how it might be harder to downplay something like cheating on an exam, but some cases of unauthorized collaboration/plagiarism might be more subjective.

How would adcoms know if an applicant is misrepresenting the truth if the school's record of the story no longer exists? I've read on SDN about LOR writers outing students for IAs, but is there any other way adcoms would find out the original details of the case? Especially since my classmate took a few gap years before the record was expunged, it seems unlikely (but not impossible?) that a different professor writing a LOR would mention their IA. What's the point of having students self-report if they could potentially manipulate their side of the story? It sounds like its the applicant's word vs the school's word (which no longer exists).

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[LizzyM]

Aren't you a good friend to open an account and make this your first question.

Self-reporting an IA of which the school no longer has a record requires honesty. The problem can be that the person who has been caught in an academic integrity violation has a shortage of integrity and will lie or be less than forthcoming on the application. The person just might get away with it. It is a test of one's integrity to do the right thing when no one would be the wiser if you did not do so.

 

[penguinsfan71]

The risk just isn't worth it. The odds of it coming out are extremely small, but if you are found out at any point during med school, you would be dismissed from the program, presumably with ten's of thousands of dollars worth of debt.

 

[Goro]

One of my classmates from undergrad has an IA for an academic integrity violation (unauthorized collaboration/plagiarism on a lab report). Since some schools expunge/destroy disciplinary records after a number of years, what's stopping an applicant from manipulating the details of their IA once it is expunged? I can see how it might be harder to downplay something like cheating on an exam, but some cases of unauthorized collaboration/plagiarism might be more subjective.

How would adcoms know if an applicant is misrepresenting the truth if the school's record of the story no longer exists? I've read on SDN about LOR writers outing students for IAs, but is there any other way adcoms would find out the original details of the case? Especially since my classmate took a few gap years before the record was expunged, it seems unlikely (but not impossible?) that a different professor writing a LOR would mention their IA. What's the point of having students self-report if they could potentially manipulate their side of the story? It sounds like its the applicant's word vs the school's word (which no longer exists).

My school has rejected numerous applicants who didn't report IAs for whatever reason, but got outed by a LOR writer who wrote "Joe/Jill has grown so much as a student since the plagiarism incident".

 

[deleted1064789]

My school has rejected numerous applicants who didn't report IAs for whatever reason, but got outed by a LOR writer who wrote "Joe/Jill has grown so much as a student since the plagiarism incident".

I am curious about an applicant that did report the IA, but downplayed the details of it in their explanation.

 

[LizzyM]

I am curious about an applicant did report the IA, but downplayed the details of it in their explanation.

The question always is, "would we want someone here who did "that"? If you have evern had to deal with an academic integrity issue (I have, several times over 20+ years) you will know that it is very painful for all involved and schools will be very hesitant to take someone who has a history of academic dishonesty however small as the dishonest undergrad becomes the dishonest medical student who if unchecked becomes the dishonest physician whose lapses in integrity can put others in jeopardy.

You'd have to downplay it to the point of absurdity to get adcoms to turn a blind eye to it and it would be so absurd as to raise a question.

 

[deleted1064789]

Aren't you a good friend to open an account and make this your first question.

Self-reporting an IA of which the school no longer has a record requires honesty. The problem can be that the person who has been caught in an academic integrity violation has a shortage of integrity and will lie or be less than forthcoming on the application. The person just might get away with it. It is a test of one's integrity to do the right thing when no one would be the wiser if you did not do so.

That definitely makes sense, it would be wrong to fight dishonesty with more dishonesty. I made a new account because my classmate and I both use SDN and my previous posts say which undergrad I went to.

 

[deleted1064789]

schools will be very hesitant to take someone who has a history of academic dishonesty however small

I would presume that something like unauthorized collaboration on homework would be less egregious than cheating on an exam, is that not the case? Neither are good to have on an application, but the former sounds like it could fall into more of a grey area.

 

[Goro]

I would presume that something like unauthorized collaboration on homework would be less egregious than cheating on an exam, is that not the case? Neither are good to have on an application, but the former sounds like it could fall into more of a grey area.

Correct. There's cheating, and then there's CHEATING.

Also, there are Adcom members who believe in redemption.

 

[deleted1064789]

Correct. There's cheating, and then there's CHEATING.

Also, there are Adcom members who believe in redemption.

I understand that it's a common thing for people to "embellish" their resume by using very deliberate wording, so would adcoms be more apt to assume that an IA explanation would be a student's biased version of the story by default?

 

[LizzyM]

If it were really bad there would be a scar: an F for the course, a barely passing grade for the course, a gap on the transcript as you sat out a suspension or a transfer to another school due to an expulsion. If it isn't as bad as that, it might not be too bad to be overlooked by a school that is not too picky.