[Serious Dilemma] Accepted to dental school in Hong Kong

[stussyhk]

should i go to dental school in HK?
or should i finish my bachelor's degree in the US and then apply to dental school in the US?
i've been living in the US for about ten years, and i might feel kinda uncomfortable going back since the environment is so different.
but the thing is dental schools in the US are so competitive, and i don't want to miss this opportunity of going to HKU dental school.

the dental program at HKU is 5 years, and if i come back to the US, i can finish a 2 year international program and get a license in the US.
but i was wondering if applying for the international program is as hard as applying for dental school in the US after completing a bachelor's degree?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[rambo2006]

If you are not from the top of class or the upper 15%, I'd tell u to go to hong Kong and come back later. But if your a really good student and you can become very competitive, I'd stay here eventhough it will cost more and it will take you a year longer (assuming you get accepted on your first try after 4 years of undergrad.) The total time it would take u is 7 years if you came back to the US and here it would take u at a resonable min. 8 years. It would take u 7 years here if you got accepted you 3rd year, some ppl get accepted that early. Also, if you go to U of Pacifica, thier program is only 3 years. Bottom line.................it really comes down to where your family resides and personal stuff like that. If I would have gotten accepted at Harvard or columbia I would still choose my state school and even if the cost was the same. Why, because of the more relaxed atmosphere that I am much more familiar with and also bieng in proximity of my familiy.

good luck

 

[Dutchboy]

I'm no expert but from what I remember of others posting on this sight is that getting into the international programs is extremely competitive. It is getting harder to get into dental school in the US but it is far from impossible. If you are not OK with the idea of living and practicing in Hong Kong for the rest of your life I would recommend staying in the US and giving it a shot.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I'm no expert but from what I remember of others posting on this sight is that getting into the international programs is extremely competitive.

Exactly. To match to an US program you'd have to do quite well in Part I (90+) in order to even be competitive. These programs often have 100s of applicants for relatively few spots.

 

[Da Bomb]

You dont always need 90+...I know a few with 86 Part I scores that are in international programs. However, this is the exception not the rule. Your best bet is to speak with international students and ask their advice.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

You dont always need 90+...I know a few with 86 Part I scores that are in international programs. However, this is the exception not the rule. Your best bet is to speak with international students and ask their advice.

Whether you like it or not.. it is also based on where you went to school. The US/Canadian licensing bodies are concerned with not only just how high you can score on the US board exams, but also can you work and serve in a 1st world western country in western culture, and can you work in a setting with their idea of infection control and four-handed dentistry.

Sure it is competitive to gain admission to an advanced standing program in the US or Canada, but by no means impossible.
If you went to dental school in Australia, New Zealand, UK.. you would most likely find it a lot easier than if you attended dental school in say Kazakhstan.

(Some Australian dental programs may actually be gaining North American accreditation soon)

Now although HKU used to be a part of the British commonwealth and used to be regulated by the same accrediting and licensing bodies as the rest of the commonwealth, it is no longer (Post '97 ceding back to China). That being said, it still is a very highly regarded university worldwide.

Honestly, I would say, "Go to HKU and then try for an advance standing program"(especially if you have previously lived in HK and you have family there). You will be kicking yourself in the arse if you give up this opportunity and then 4 years down the line you don't gain admission to a US school AND HKU will no longer consider you for admissions because you previously turned them down. Good luck!

 

[12YearOldKid]

If you know you want to practice in the US and your scores are decent, I think you would be better off going to a US school. The path to US licensure for foreign grads is difficult and expensive.

 

[rarm1]

Many international schools are excellent... BUT state laws will limit what you can do in the US... Getting into a special 2-3 year program for international students is hard. Often it is easier to start over.

While the Am Dental Assoc, Comm on Dental Accrediation (CODA) is currently " consulting" with international schools and may accrediate them soon (no time line)... nothing is pending now. The problem will not only be curriculum but laws on what can be taught or must be taught in various countries... like no amalgam, different medication being available. I can go on and on.

When I was in China, Sichquan Provence... the schools had different programs ... the 7 year program was excellent... but the two year program wont be equilvant to dental hygiene. The research was excellent. Since HK was independent, they may still differ from the rest of China.

I would recommend... try to get into a US school, or plan an international school and to try to then get into a US 2-4 year program.

American Citzens taking a foreign program may graduate but not be able to practice in that country (again laws).

 

[stussyhk]

If you know you want to practice in the US and your scores are decent, I think you would be better off going to a US school. The path to US licensure for foreign grads is difficult and expensive.

am i considered "foreign" if i am a US citizen?
i was born in the US, but was raised up in HK, and moved to the US when i was 10, and now i am back to study at HKU.
pretty complicated background huh?

i'm going to be a 3rd year at UCDavis, but i plan to delay one quarter so i can try what it's like to study at HKU.

to be honest, my gpa is only 3.2. i probably have a disadvantage in interviews since my second language is english, even though i speak quite fluently. as for the DAT, i'm not sure if i'm confident enough to do well on it. and i will also need to get recommendation letters in order to apply for dental schools in the US, with no guarantee at all that i will be accepted.
so i will need to make a lot of extra effort if i am applying for dental schools in the US.
but for HKU, i don't need to do anything at all since i am already accepted for the last space.
i don't know if this is a case of luck, since i just heard this news yesterday, and HKU classes start soon on monday (9/11).

 

[stussyhk]

Honestly, I would say, "Go to HKU and then try for an advance standing program"(especially if you have previously lived in HK and you have family there). You will be kicking yourself in the arse if you give up this opportunity and then 4 years down the line you don't gain admission to a US school AND HKU will no longer consider you for admissions because you previously turned them down. Good luck!

this is what i'm thinking as well.
there are absolutely no guarantees i will be accepted to any dental schools in the US, given that i am not too strong of a candidate compared with others who have 3.7+ gpa etc.

but i will probably miss the US since i have lived there for 10 years.
and also some friends i have there.
and also i'm gonna miss my experience of studying at UCDavis.
but i guess i should look farther down the line....and worry more about my future?

 

[stussyhk]

If you are not from the top of class or the upper 15%, I'd tell u to go to hong Kong and come back later. But if your a really good student and you can become very competitive, I'd stay here eventhough it will cost more and it will take you a year longer (assuming you get accepted on your first try after 4 years of undergrad.) The total time it would take u is 7 years if you came back to the US and here it would take u at a resonable min. 8 years. It would take u 7 years here if you got accepted you 3rd year, some ppl get accepted that early. Also, if you go to U of Pacifica, thier program is only 3 years. Bottom line.................it really comes down to where your family resides and personal stuff like that. If I would have gotten accepted at Harvard or columbia I would still choose my state school and even if the cost was the same. Why, because of the more relaxed atmosphere that I am much more familiar with and also bieng in proximity of my familiy.

good luck

but the problem i worry is that i am probably not as competitive as those applicants who have high gpa, high DAT, and good interview skills.
i can always work harder so i can be competitive enough to apply for dental school in the US, but again there are no guarantees and there is a huge risk of failure.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

but the problem i worry is that i am probably not as competitive as those applicants who have high gpa, high DAT, and good interview skills.
i can always work harder so i can be competitive enough to apply for dental school in the US, but again there are no guarantees and there is a huge risk of failure.

You do still have time.. you can try to raise your gpa and apply to US schools.

Or you can go to HKU and obtain your dental education there.

If you are happy in HK and have family there, then neither one is a bad choice really. But if you are sure you want to do dentistry and don't care where you do it. Then I'd say take up the offer at HKU.. its a good school in a fun city. Plus isn't income tax under 15% or something there? 🙂 Might not be a bad place to practice either.

 

[gryffindor]

this is what i'm thinking as well.
there are absolutely no guarantees i will be accepted to any dental schools in the US, given that i am not too strong of a candidate compared with others who have 3.7+ gpa etc.

but i will probably miss the US since i have lived there for 10 years.
and also some friends i have there.
and also i'm gonna miss my experience of studying at UCDavis.
but i guess i should look farther down the line....and worry more about my future?

There is no guarantee either that you will get into an international dentist training program when you return. And at that point, your competition will probably be even harder. It will depend on your dental school grades which you can not improve or change once you pass your classes at HKU, and on your national board scores. The national board exam is very challenging to do well on compared to the DAT because it covers many more science subjects in a lot more detail. And you will have to interview at that point for the international dentist programs, so you will not escape the interview either. There are many students in dental school who do not speak English as their first language and they do fine. In your case, since you are still in undergrad, you can still raise your GPA, take an extra semester or two and raise it some more, and you can begin studying full force for the DAT using all of the resources out there.

Go over and read the "International Dentist Forum" on this board and ask your question there. Those students are dentists in other countries trying to get into the international dentist programs here, and they can tell you what the competition is like and if you'd be better off staying here.

If you want to ultimately practice in the US, you are probably better off staying here and putting in the effort over the next year or two to get into a traditional US program. You either put in the effort now for a regular DDS, or go to Hong Kong and have to put in the effort later when trying to get into an international dentist program.

 

[Doggie]

Just conjecture, but I think it would be harder for you to apply back to the US as an international student than if you were to apply for dental in the US to begin with. There are plenty of idiots out there with less than 3.0 undergrad GPA who made it to US dental schools..............(for instance, Yah-E and me. 😎 )

 

[stussyhk]

There is no guarantee either that you will get into an international dentist training program when you return. And at that point, your competition will probably be even harder. It will depend on your dental school grades which you can not improve or change once you pass your classes at HKU, and on your national board scores. The national board exam is very challenging to do well on compared to the DAT because it covers many more science subjects in a lot more detail. And you will have to interview at that point for the international dentist programs, so you will not escape the interview either. There are many students in dental school who do not speak English as their first language and they do fine. In your case, since you are still in undergrad, you can still raise your GPA, take an extra semester or two and raise it some more, and you can begin studying full force for the DAT using all of the resources out there.

Go over and read the "International Dentist Forum" on this board and ask your question there. Those students are dentists in other countries trying to get into the international dentist programs here, and they can tell you what the competition is like and if you'd be better off staying here.

If you want to ultimately practice in the US, you are probably better off staying here and putting in the effort over the next year or two to get into a traditional US program. You either put in the effort now for a regular DDS, or go to Hong Kong and have to put in the effort later when trying to get into an international dentist program.

but even if you did get into a dental school in the US, you still have to pass the national board exam. what's the difference between passing the national board exam in order to get into an international program and passing the national board exam in a US dental school to get a license?
either way you still have to pass the board exam and get a score above the requirement, whether you're a student in a US dental school or a student from HKU dental school (i think some schools are 70%-80% something).

 

[Doggie]

but even if you did get into a dental school in the US, you still have to pass the national board exam. what's the difference between passing the national board exam in order to get into an international program and passing the national board exam in a US dental school to get a license?
either way you still have to pass the board exam and get a score above the requirement, whether you're a student in a US dental school or a student from HKU dental school (i think some schools are 70%-80% something).

US dental schools: You need to pass part 1 and part 2 of boards to recieve a DDS (or for people with lesser qualifications, DMD). There is no minimum score you need, provided you just pass both exams.

Internal Dentists: If you want to practice in United States, you will need to do well in Part 1 boards.........typically >90. AND.........you still need to go to school for 2 to 3 years to recieve a DDS or DMD in the united states.

 

[12YearOldKid]

And keep in mind that Part 1 is much more difficult than the DAT. Really, the DAT is a fairly simple and straightforward test.

 

[gryffindor]

US dental schools: You need to pass part 1 and part 2 of boards to recieve a DDS (or for people with lesser qualifications, DMD). There is no minimum score you need, provided you just pass both exams.

Internal Dentists: If you want to practice in United States, you will need to do well in Part 1 boards.........typically >90. AND.........you still need to go to school for 2 to 3 years to recieve a DDS or DMD in the united states.

What doggie said is good.

A 75 is considered a Pass on both National Board Exams, parts I & II. If you are at a US school and get a 75 on each exam, you will graduate dental school and be able to apply & receive your license.

Coming from Hong Kong, if you merely pass the boards with a 75, your chances of getting into an international dentist program will be almost none. You'll really need a 90+ to have a fighting chance.

The curriculum in US dental schools are geared toward passing the national board exams. The same may not be true at your Hong Kong dental school meaning that you will have to spend a lot of effort preparing for the national boards yourself.

 

[rarm1]

Hi,
With a 3.2, you still can get into a US school.

Even if you were born in the US... lived in the US your entire life... an American citzen... if you graduate a foreign professional school you would still be considered a foreign (international) grad. Appling to the special international (2-3 year) programs require high grades and board scores... that is why I often mention it is easier to apply to begin again in a 4 year program... then wasting 2-3 years to get in to the shorter 2 year programs (2-3 years waiting to get into a 2-3 program...and that is iffy... easier to just spend 4 years).

Even with that said... the where China is starting private practice dentistry... now close to 10%... and the potentional income... they are recruiting US trained specialist.

Check with some dental schools... visit them

 

[sjdent]

My first impulse is to say to just do whatever you can to go to dental school - sounds like a great op.

However - I know that getting into the international programs at US dental schools is nearly impossible. It's a loooong shot.

Wait and try one of the schools here. If you have good grades and work your butt off to get a good DAT score, you can absolutely get into a US dental school somewhere, even if you wait a few years.

If you go to HK, you may end up spending the rest of your life there, which is fine, but just take that into consideration.

 

[stussyhk]

Hi,
With a 3.2, you still can get into a US school.

i'm not sure, but i think that is true for applicants who applied to US schools several years ago?
if i apply in 2007, competition will not be the same anymore.

lets say i have a minimum gpa of 3.0, an average score on the DAT, and average interview skills. is there any chance of getting into any dental schools in california? wouldn't going to HKU be better than going to remote places in the US to study dentistry? i probably won't be getting into any "better" schools if i were to apply, since i know for a fact that i am not as competitive as other applicants who have super good grades and DAT scores.

i understand that getting into an international program is hard, but at least when worst comes to worst, i am still a dentist in HK that can make a decent living.
on the other hand, if i complete a bachlor's degree in biological sciences the US (which i am currently majoring in) and can't get into any professional schools, what's the use? a bachelor's degree certainly won't really get me anywhere in life.

 

[Chakshu]

Just thought I should add this as well: There are more schools that offer regular DDS than in Advanced Standing. Am I correct? So you will apply to less schools should you decide to come back. I think they also want people to have a decent experience as a dentist; so you won't be getting in rite away after finishing there.

 

[ajex]

ok this is really unexpected.
i applied to HKU dental school last year, and i was waitlisted and rejected at the end. but since only 52 out of 53 spaces are occupied, and none of those who are waitlisted wish to go to HKU, the admission committee is now willing to give the last space to me.

so the question is, should i go to dental school in HK?
or should i finish my bachelor's degree in the US and then apply to dental school in the US?
i've been living in the US for about ten years, and i feel really uncomfortable going back since the environment is so different.
but the thing is dental schools in the US are so competitive, and i don't want to miss this opportunity of going to HKU dental school.

the dental program at HKU is 5 years, and if i come back to the US, i can finish a 2 year international program and get a license in the US.
but i was wondering if applying for the international program is as hard as applying for dental school in the US after completing a bachelor's degree?

you might also want to consider the type of training u receive. in making your decision, if you haven't made one already. hku is not a bad school; you will get a fairly comprehensive sort of training. materials are taught entirely via the PBL method ( i have friends studying there atm), and u will get very early clinical exposure (sometimes at a stage where you pre-clinical skills are still not fully mature.) But that is not a concern since most do come out as fine practitioners. in nth america, depends on which school u r in, didatic or PBL (or both) type of training is available (american colleagues on SDN will be able to help you out better here). Which learning type is better really depends on ur own learning style.

last but not least, i would like to echo the views of others: where you want to work should determines where you want your training to be conducted. if you really want to work in the us (that is, you MUST work there), then spending some thoughts and effort (and i might add confident) in prep-ing for dental school applications is recommended. if, however, u r happy to work in hk, then hku might not be a bad option at all. good luck!

 

[north2southOMFS]

............While the Am Dental Assoc, Comm on Dental Accrediation (CODA) is currently " consulting" with international schools and may accrediate them soon (no time line)...

Oh help me, i just had a run of vtach for a second there. Just the thought of those foreign flood gates opening makes me scared something fierce!

Please tell me they are at least 30 years out from the above mentioned plan! Trust me, if I wanted that I'd go and live in the peoples Republic of California!

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Oh help me, i just had a run of vtach for a second there. Just the thought of those foreign flood gates opening makes me scared something fierce!

Please tell me they are at least 30 years out from the above mentioned plan! Trust me, if I wanted that I'd go and live in the peoples Republic of California!

I believe it will still be a couple of years before this might be a possibility. However… Just curious, but do you consider the accreditation of Canadian schools to be "opening foreign flood gates" in the US?
This will not be a policy that will allow just any foreign dental grad to walk into the US and practice. Any school interested in obtaining accreditation through CODA will have to go through the same rigorous accreditation process as any other US dental school and will have to prove to be up to the same standard. If it happens at all, it will only be for a couple of select programs. I don’t think this is something to get worried about no one is going to steal your job. 🙂

 

[north2southOMFS]

No, i don't think Canadian schools are any different from ours, i was more referring to indian, Chinese, and other countries where people will do anything to leave. As far as canada goes, I think canada should really just abandon their failed socialized healthcare and just join up with our privatized system. Then if would give doctors or patients the choice of where to go to work or get treated.

If Canada went to private health care, doctors would make more, work less, and get to be their own boss. Patients would get care more promptly, and from whom they choose. If this occurred then why would doctors want to leave Canada and come here, anymore than an american doctor would want to leave america and go to some socialized healthcare country to work more and make less. I sure wouldn't, hell canada is great and beautiful, its just the healthcare system that sucks.

Just my 2cents. Feel free to bash away.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

No, i don't think Canadian schools are any different from ours, i was more referring to indian, Chinese, and other countries where people will do anything to leave. As far as canada goes, I think canada should really just abandon their failed socialized healthcare and just join up with our privatized system. Then if would give doctors or patients the choice of where to go to work or get treated.

If Canada went to private health care, doctors would make more, work less, and get to be their own boss. Patients would get care more promptly, and from whom they choose. If this occurred then why would doctors want to leave Canada and come here, anymore than an american doctor would want to leave america and go to some socialized healthcare country to work more and make less. I sure wouldn't, hell canada is great and beautiful, its just the healthcare system that sucks.

Just my 2cents. Feel free to bash away.

I'm not bashing at all.. I don't disagree with some of the things that you've stated.
But... How many poor dental colleges from 3rd world countries do you think will actually be at the same standard and able to successfully pass CODA accreditation? That is the point that I'm making... (I don't think you have anything to worry about here). At best.. like the vet programs.. (see below).. it will most likely be less than 5-6 schools that may be able to be certified.

If they do it at all.. it will be on a school by school basis.. similar to the way the American and Canadian Boards of Veterinary medicine have done this. Check their website..

(Sydney's vet school managed to obtain US/Canadian accreditation last year).

AVMA Accredited Vet Schools <- scroll down to the bottom
Sydney University Vet Faculty News bulletin

I've heard that Melbourne and Sydney Universities are now interested in having CODA approve their graduate-entry 4 year dental programs.

Sydney is 4 year grad-entry, Its a mixed PBL and didactic program and is very similar to UBC or Harvard's programs (from what I've heard from others).

Melbourne will also be a 4 year grad-entry program by 2008 (supposedly)

Actually in the May 2006 edition of the journal of the American Academy of General Dentistry there was an article about this very issue.

I quote CODA Vice Chair James Cole, DDS..

"Around 2002 or 2003," Dr. Cole says, "Mexican dental schools asked to develop the same sort of reciprocity with the United States as we have with Canada. We compared standards and found substantial differences between Mexican standards and U.S. and Canadian standards. I don't foresee any significant movement of international dentists, except in Australia and New Zealand, who have programs much like those in the United States. CODA could conceivably develop reciprocal agreements in those countries."

👍 So, I guess we'll see.

 

[ajex]

i'm not sure, but i think that is true for applicants who applied to US schools several years ago?
if i apply in 2007, competition will not be the same anymore.

lets say i have a minimum gpa of 3.0, an average score on the DAT, and average interview skills. is there any chance of getting into any dental schools in california? wouldn't going to HKU be better than going to remote places in the US to study dentistry? i probably won't be getting into any "better" schools if i were to apply, since i know for a fact that i am not as competitive as other applicants who have super good grades and DAT scores.

i understand that getting into an international program is hard, but at least when worst comes to worst, i am still a dentist in HK that can make a decent living.
on the other hand, if i complete a bachlor's degree in biological sciences the US (which i am currently majoring in) and can't get into any professional schools, what's the use? a bachelor's degree certainly won't really get me anywhere in life.

are you now in hku studying dentistry?