Serious Question about DO education

[MDizzy]

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I hope I won't get flamed for this because this is a serious question.

I've read many posts ad nauseum on many forums of SDN that osteopathic residencies are not as good as allopathic residency programs. Hence, many DO students prefer to match into an MD residency due to reasons such as having more options and due to quality.

My question is this: Since MD residencies have a reputation for being a higher quality education than DO residencies in the same field, why does it not stand to reason that the quality of education at an MD school for years MS1-4 is superior to that of a DO education?

Just an observation. It seems that DO students and pre-DOs are being hippocritical.

 

[iliacus]

I hope I won't get flamed for this because this is a serious question.

I've read many posts ad nauseum on many forums of SDN that osteopathic residencies are not as good as allopathic residency programs. Hence, many DO students prefer to match into an MD residency due to reasons such as having more options and due to quality.

My question is this: Since MD residencies have a reputation for being a higher quality education than DO residencies in the same field, why does it not stand to reason that the quality of education at an MD school for years MS1-4 is superior to that of a DO education?

Just an observation. It seems that DO students and pre-DOs are being hippocritical.

Truth is most DO students don't know a good from a bad residency...as do most MD students. It's like the first day in medical school when 80% of the girls in class are going to be pediatricians, but less than 10% match in 4th year. It's an abstract idea based on perception. A big part is geography and name recognition. For example, everyone wants into U of California EM programs. Are those programs better than other programs? I doubt it. My school is in south Florida. We have IM and EM residency on Miami Beach.. and an ortho residency in Fort Lauderdale. There are far greater number applicants than spots at all three residencies. Many of the DO residencies are concentrated in the midwest. Most people don't want to live there. As to your question about education equivalence...Is Harvard considered a better school than Temple? If so are the graduates of Temple inferior to the graduates of Harvard? By your logic they are. The problem with many of these forums is that there isn't enough experience to speak with any sort of real idea of what's out there. It's like a bunch of virgins sitting around talking about sex.

 

[group_theory]

My question is this: Since MD residencies have a reputation for being a higher quality education than DO residencies in the same field, why does it not stand to reason that the quality of education at an MD school for years MS1-4 is superior to that of a DO education?

How would you defined "higher quality education"? Can you cite examples?


As for medical school ... the reason is simple - standardization. The first two years of medical school is standardize in the US ... so whether you are in a traditional lecture, system-based, independant tract, PBL, some weird miscellaneous combination of the above, etc. - you learn the same thing. This applies from Harvard/Hopkins to PCOM/KCOM, to St George/Ross. Hence why when you run into your average medical students during their 3rd year rotation, you will see no obvious differences between them. (yes there will be superstars and duds but take your average student). I have rotated with students from ivy league medical schools, state medical schools, other osteopathic medical schools, and offshore medical schools ... and i have yet to see any real gaps of knowledge/skills that can be blamed on the school/education.

 

[MDizzy]

How would you defined "higher quality education"? Can you cite examples?


As for medical school ... the reason is simple - standardization. The first two years of medical school is standardize in the US ... so whether you are in a traditional lecture, system-based, independant tract, PBL, some weird miscellaneous combination of the above, etc. - you learn the same thing. This applies from Harvard/Hopkins to PCOM/KCOM, to St George/Ross. Hence why when you run into your average medical students during their 3rd year rotation, you will see no obvious differences between them. (yes there will be superstars and duds but take your average student). I have rotated with students from ivy league medical schools, state medical schools, other osteopathic medical schools, and offshore medical schools ... and i have yet to see any real gaps of knowledge/skills that can be blamed on the school/education.

The first two years are standardized, but not so much the 3rd and 4th years. Many DO programs do not offer the same amount of time for electives as do many MD programs. Many DO programs also require a whole lot of primary care rotations, and do not have many hospital affiliations and connections to send their students.

Some of the same reasons that are given for preference to MD residencies vs DO applies to the 3rd and 4th year of medical school. For example, most MD residency programs are located at large, university hospital settings whereas most DO residency programs are at rural clinics and private practice settings. You can't tell me you will see as wide a range of pathologies and disease states at a rural program vs a large university hospital. Why do these same reasons not apply to 3rd and 4th year clerkships? Wouldn't you want to attend a medical school where you know your 3rd and 4th year clerkships will be at a large academic hospital vs a rural clinic?

Let me put it bluntly. Do you think you will see as many different demographics of patients, see as many rare diseases, and learn more new techniques at Mass General or Pontiac Osteopathic Hospital? Bigger name institutions recruit and retain the best and the brightest from around the world to teach, research, and treat patients. By the same token, big name institutions attract patients with rare and difficult diseases from across the globe in hopes of finding the the best treatment and the best doctors. To say that there is not a difference in education from a 3rd and 4th year medical student's perspective from training at those two hospitals would be untrue.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Just an observation. It seems that DO students and pre-DOs are being hippocritical.

Since Dr. Inviz isn't here anymore, I'll have to be the one to say it's hypocritical. Also, where's the hypocrisy? New pet peeve, but I'm convinced most people who use that word don't what it means.

From looking at your post history, you seem to get off on knocking dental students, vet students and DO students. Following that I think it's hard to believe that you're just curious and looking for a thoughtful conversation.

 

[group_theory]

The first two years are standardized, but not so much the 3rd and 4th years. Many DO programs do not offer the same amount of time for electives as do many MD programs. Many DO programs also require a whole lot of primary care rotations, and do not have many hospital affiliations and connections to send their students.

Some of the same reasons that are given for preference to MD residencies vs DO applies to the 3rd and 4th year of medical school. For example, most MD residency programs are located at large, university hospital settings whereas most DO residency programs are at rural clinics and private practice settings. You can't tell me you will see as wide a range of pathologies and disease states at a rural program vs a large university hospital. Why do these same reasons not apply to 3rd and 4th year clerkships? Wouldn't you want to attend a medical school where you know your 3rd and 4th year clerkships will be at a large academic hospital vs a rural clinic?

All valid points. DO schools have large variations when it comes to 3rd/4th years.

I won't be so quick to judge a school that requires a lot of primary care rotation though ... if a student is interested in primary care, and the school is geared towards producing primary care physicians, then it might not necessarily be a bad thing. Now if the student wants to be a colo-rectal surgeon or a hematopathologist, then going to a school that requires a lot of primary care rotations might not be a good idea. But again, schools varies in terms of how they approach MS3/MS4 years so don't lump all DO schools into one general assumption/statement.

In regards to large versus small hospital - from a medical student perspective (and education), it does not matter. While it is cool to admit someone with a pheochromocytoma and watch the team manage that person (as an example), as a med student, you will need to learn the basics. You need to establish a strong foundation first. What's the workup for chest pain? How do you write admit orders? How do you treat afib? A 78 year old male comes in with dyspnea - what do you need to know, what questions to ask, and how would you work it up? The basics will be seen everywhere, whether it is at a large tertiary care hospital, or a small community hospital.
While it is cool to see the rare diseases, as a medical student, your primary job is to learn the basics.

A wide arrange of experiences and pathologies are valid points that you bring up - that should be addressed when looking at residency options. There are DO residencies that will definately expose you to them. There are DO residencies that do not. The same can be said of MD residencies. That is why it is important not to make general assumptions but to look at individual residencies.

 

[MDizzy]

Since Dr. Inviz isn't here anymore, I'll have to be the one to say it's hypocritical. Also, where's the hypocrisy? New pet peeve, but I'm convinced most people who use that word don't what it means.

From looking at your post history, you seem to get off on knocking dental students, vet students and DO students. Following that I think it's hard to believe that you're just curious and looking for a thoughtful conversation.

Seems I spelled it wrong but you got the idea, despite trying to be a smart-a$$ about it.

hyp·o·crite

/ˈhɪp

ə

krɪt/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hip-uh-krit]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs. 2.a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

If you can't see the hypocrisy, you should re-read the OP.

 

[MDizzy]

All valid points. DO schools have large variations when it comes to 3rd/4th years.

I won't be so quick to judge a school that requires a lot of primary care rotation though ... if a student is interested in primary care, and the school is geared towards producing primary care physicians, then it might not necessarily be a bad thing. Now if the student wants to be a colo-rectal surgeon or a hematopathologist, then going to a school that requires a lot of primary care rotations might not be a good idea. But again, schools varies in terms of how they approach MS3/MS4 years so don't lump all DO schools into one general assumption/statement.

In regards to large versus small hospital - from a medical student perspective (and education), it does not matter. While it is cool to admit someone with a pheochromocytoma and watch the team manage that person (as an example), as a med student, you will need to learn the basics. You need to establish a strong foundation first. What's the workup for chest pain? How do you write admit orders? How do you treat afib? A 78 year old male comes in with dyspnea - what do you need to know, what questions to ask, and how would you work it up? The basics will be seen everywhere, whether it is at a large tertiary care hospital, or a small community hospital.
While it is cool to see the rare diseases, as a medical student, your primary job is to learn the basics.

A wide arrange of experiences and pathologies are valid points that you bring up - that should be addressed when looking at residency options. There are DO residencies that will definately expose you to them. There are DO residencies that do not. The same can be said of MD residencies. That is why it is important not to make general assumptions but to look at individual residencies.

Very good points, thank you for answering a serious question with a serious answer and not looking up posting histories to attempt to derail the topic at hand.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Seems I spelled it wrong but you got the idea, despite trying to be a smart-a$$ about it.

hyp·o·crite

/ˈhɪp

ə

krɪt/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hip-uh-krit]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs. 2.a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

If you can't see the hypocrisy, you should re-read the OP.

Read it and am not seeing it. I could see where you could say someone's a hypocrite for saying they love the osteopathic philosophy and then dumping all of it and pursuing a totally allopathic model for residency and practice. Saying that DO schools are as good as allopathic school and yet the residencies are not isn't in itself hypocritical. Reread the definition if you're in doubt.

 

[Buckeye4life]

Seems I spelled it wrong but you got the idea, despite trying to be a smart-a$$ about it.

hyp·o·crite

/ˈhɪp

ə

krɪt/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hip-uh-krit]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs. 2.a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

If you can't see the hypocrisy, you should re-read the OP.

I agree with Doctor Bagel. I don't see the hypocricy of attending a D.O. school and choosing to complete an allopathic residency. Could you please better explain it to me? If you are trying to say that D.O. students are hypocrites because they do not possess perceived adequate experience/knowledge by inferior clinical rotations, and then try to compensate for this by completing allopathic residencies then you are mistaken about the definition. If that's not what you are getting at then please feel free to educate me.

 

[spicedmanna]

Alright folks. Public service announcement: let's not let this thread decay. Please refrain from personal attacks, flaming, etc.

 

[Buckeye4life]

I just want to know why if someone calls me a hypocrite, how I'm being hypocritical.

 

[JayneCobb]

My question is this: Since MD residencies have a reputation for being a higher quality education than DO residencies in the same field, why does it not stand to reason that the quality of education at an MD school for years MS1-4 is superior to that of a DO education?

I'm just curious as to what year you are in. I for one would take offense to saying my education is somehow inferior to any MD schools program. Namely since I've had MD students offer nice sums of money to purchase my Pathology notes due to who my instructor was at my lowly osteopathic school.

But don't let your prejudice blind you to the fact that the Cline report way back in the 1953 acknowledge that at the very least, the pre residency training is on par with LCME standards.

The first two years are standardized, but not so much the 3rd and 4th years. Many DO programs do not offer the same amount of time for electives as do many MD programs. Many DO programs also require a whole lot of primary care rotations, and do not have many hospital affiliations and connections to send their students.

I guess it's the internist in me, but Primary care is the basis for all medicine. The worst specialists (IMHO) are the ones who do not know their basic medicine and how other conditions outside of their field affect their management of their pts. I'm not saying a cardiologist should managed PE, but he should be able to diagnosis a PE or know when to refer to GI, etc, etc.

For example, most MD residency programs are located at large, university hospital settings whereas most DO residency programs are at rural clinics and private practice settings.

I'm just curious as to what experience you have in either setting to offer any input as to the pros & cons of academic over community hospitals. And for the moment I'll ignore your last sentence which is blatantly inaccurate.

You can't tell me you will see as wide a range of pathologies and disease states at a rural program vs a large university hospital.

If you truly wish to look at the numbers, you are far more likely to run into a wider range of pathologies and diseases in rural hospitals vs university hospitals. The ratio of physician to patient is much higher in rural settings, and the rules of epidemiology do not magically cease to exist in small towns. 20% of American's live in "non-urban environments" while only 11% of physicians work there. And if you were to look at the direct Physician to patient ratios, you'll see a huge disparity.

Rare diseases are not limited to urban areas. As long as the physician is good, he'll find all of the rare diseases. I can tell you from personal experience that during my BFE rotations had far more pathology than my urban rotations.

Why do these same reasons not apply to 3rd and 4th year clerkships? Wouldn't you want to attend a medical school where you know your 3rd and 4th year clerkships will be at a large academic hospital vs a rural clinic?

My experience in an allopathic academic center was boring to me at least. I had a month where I did a single H&P as a 4th year, I was barely allowed any pt interaction and we only saw 1 rare disease.

Let me put it bluntly. Do you think you will see as many different demographics of patients, see as many rare diseases, and learn more new techniques at Mass General or Pontiac Osteopathic Hospital?

Let me put it bluntly to you. Do you think that you, as a 3rd year or 4th year student will be close enough to see these new techniques and procedures that you will actually learn something about how to perform them?

I've already addressed the idiocy of the assumption that rare diseases are limited to academic centers.

Bigger name institutions recruit and retain the best and the brightest from around the world to teach, research, and treat patients. By the same token, big name institutions attract patients with rare and difficult diseases from across the globe in hopes of finding the the best treatment and the best doctors. To say that there is not a difference in education from a 3rd and 4th year medical student's perspective from training at those two hospitals would be untrue.

And I'm curious how do seeing these big names and 'rare diseases" improve you as a physician? It won't help your intern year when you're managing bread and butter CHF, PE, HTN, etc, etc. You can not sit there with a straight face and tell me that you will in any meaningful way participate in any new and exciting procedure.

This reminds me of a running joke in the Surgery department from my home schools affiliated hospital. While I was on GS service my 3rd year, the Surgery residents left for 2 days to go to a huge endoscopy training session in Texas. They came back and were laughing their ass off because some arrogant Ivy league doc was bragging about their new virtual endoscopy training set up, and when he asked what they used to train he scoffed when they said they didn't have anything. He then asked something along the lines, so how will you become proficient in endoscopy? To which they replied, we do on average 2 a day.

 

[Founder]

This is how I see it:

I am proud to be a future DO student and DO. I am going to be a physician.

I am going to take my education and learn as much as I can as well as I can. MD and DO schools basically all teach the same thing, perhaps using different textbooks and microscopes, but they teach the same.

I don't see how one PhD teaching histology would be too much different than another PhD teaching it. The schools aren't going to hire idiots here to teach future students who will become future alumni who will be become future donors. Some professors will teach differently or there might be more resources at some schools.

Okay, let's look at it with resources. Each MD school I went to had worse facilities/technology than DO schools. The MD schools were more well-known but when I compared their facilities/technology to DO schools I had been to, the DO schools ran circles around the MD schools.

MD schools have good reputations and are better known. Plus there are just so many more.

If you go to a DO school the education will be excellent. I have never heard anything negative about the first two years of education at any DO or MD school. They're medical schools! Come on they aren't going to be lax on the textbook education.

As for residency, I'm sure you can get what you want if you have high scores on all your tests, good letters of recommendation and you have worked hard during your rotations. You could go to Harvard and not get any residency if you never worked hard.

It's up to you what you make of your education and what you make of rotations.

That is my take on it. I'm not going into my future medical education with something to prove because I'll be a DO and if I were going to be an MD I wouldn't be thinking myself superior. As either an MD or a DO the best thing to do is do you best and if you do your best and do well, score well, etc. you'll get a good position.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

I always love it when posters put the disclaimer of not trying to start a fight, but then bash the education on rumors. Also, many allopathic schools do have their students doing rotations at small rural clinics or health facilities. Just about every DO school has a large affiliated hospitals for inpatient rotations, DMU's main teaching hospital is 971 beds, acute care, adult and pediatric trauma center. Larger and gets 2x more ER visits then the U of Iowa hospital.

 

[GreenShirt]

I'm not sure how the OP is making a connection between residencies, which are governed by hospitals/clinics, and medical education run by medical schools. However, your real training as a physician will not begin until you start your residency. The fact that you saw a rare disease during clerkship A, that you will never run into when you're in specialty B, doesn't make you a better phyisician. The likelyhood that you'll be one of the 90% of physicians who don't practice in hospitals doesn't make your experience in an academic hospital more relevant to the clinical or private practice you'll eventually have than actually spending time in one of those settings during your training. In a rural setting you won't see many gunshot wounds and stabbings while in an urban hospital you won't see the truama's caused by farm equipment. Which makes you a better doctor, the gunshot experience or the farm accident experience? (Hint: answer has to do with the specialty and setting in which you'll choose to practice)

 

[Orthodoc40]

This is how I see it:
Okay, let's look at it with resources. Each MD school I went to had worse facilities/technology than DO schools. The MD schools were more well-known but when I compared their facilities/technology to DO schools I had been to, the DO schools ran circles around the MD schools.

I have to totally agree with this. DMU, UMDNJ and UNECOM all have superior facilities and technology to the MD schools I interviewed at. Small sampling, yes - but it seems like a trend.

Also, I'd hardly say that if Doctor Bagel was looking up your post history, there was intent to 'derail' the thread, other than to stop others from wasting their time responding to someone who might not be as genuine as they claimed to be when starting this topic.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I hope I won't get flamed for this because this is a serious question.

I've read many posts ad nauseum on many forums of SDN that osteopathic residencies are not as good as allopathic residency programs. Hence, many DO students prefer to match into an MD residency due to reasons such as having more options and due to quality.

My question is this: Since MD residencies have a reputation for being a higher quality education than DO residencies in the same field, why does it not stand to reason that the quality of education at an MD school for years MS1-4 is superior to that of a DO education?

Just an observation. It seems that DO students and pre-DOs are being hippocritical.

I find it funny that you can't even spell hypocritical, yet you're accusing us of being such.

How about someone ban him and get it over with?

 

[MaximusD]

Very good points, thank you for answering a serious question with a serious answer and not looking up posting histories to attempt to derail the topic at hand.

MDizzy please refrain from joining my profession.

 

[HarveyCushing]

I have to totally agree with this. DMU, UMDNJ and UNECOM all have superior facilities and technology to the MD schools I interviewed at. Small sampling, yes - but it seems like a trend.

👍 I agree and would throw KCUMB on the list.

 

[bth7]

Here's some more specifics on the OP question

Comparison of osteopathic and allopathic medicine

There's stuff in there about residency training.

Hope this helps a bit.

bh

 

[HarveyCushing]

I'm just curious as to what year you are in. I for one would take offense to saying my education is somehow inferior to any MD schools program. Namely since I've had MD students offer nice sums of money to purchase my Pathology notes due to who my instructor was at my lowly osteopathic school.

Let me guess, OSU-COM? 😀

 

[bth7]

It's like a bunch of virgins sitting around talking about sex.

Brilliant, truly brilliant. Med students love to talk about things they know nothing about. 🙂

 

[bth7]

My question is this: Since MD residencies have a reputation for being a higher quality education than DO residencies in the same field, why does it not stand to reason that the quality of education at an MD school for years MS1-4 is superior to that of a DO education?

Another suggestion to the OP for getting more information, if you are really interested.

Try joining the listserv of the American Medical Student Association (an originally allopathic organization) on Osteopathic medicine. There's some good info on the page, and some good info from joining the listserv.

Here's a link: www.amsa.org/osteo

Bryan
OMS III

 

[arsenewenger]

👍 I agree and would throw KCUMB on the list.

What facilities are you talking about.
UNECOM... do you call those old dilapidated buildings ,facilities?
UMDNJ...what's in UMDNJ? what did you see?

wake up from your slumber !

 

[HarveyCushing]

What facilities are you talking about.
UNECOM... do you call those old dilapidated buildings ,facilities?
UMDNJ...what's in UMDNJ? what did you see?

wake up from your slumber !

I was agreeing that the DO schools I interviewed at had superior facilities and technology compared to the MD schools that I interviewed at. That is it.

 

[Vizsla]

I was agreeing that the DO schools I interviewed at had superior facilities and technology compared to the MD schools that I interviewed at. That is it.

how old were the DO schools?.. perhaps they look nicer bc theyve been in existence for fewer yrs?

 

[HarveyCushing]

how old were the DO schools?.. perhaps they look nicer bc theyve been in existence for fewer yrs?

That isn't the reason since DMU is 109 yrs old and KCUMB is 93 yrs old.

 

[docbill]

I hope I won't get flamed for this because this is a serious question.

I've read many posts ad nauseum on many forums of SDN that osteopathic residencies are not as good as allopathic residency programs. Hence, many DO students prefer to match into an MD residency due to reasons such as having more options and due to quality.

My question is this: Since MD residencies have a reputation for being a higher quality education than DO residencies in the same field, why does it not stand to reason that the quality of education at an MD school for years MS1-4 is superior to that of a DO education?

Just an observation. It seems that DO students and pre-DOs are being hippocritical.

See if you left this part out you would not have upset so many DO pre- and DO students.

It is true that most DO residencies are lower in quality than ACGME residencies. They differ quite a bit from University to University.

In some fields DO training are inferior to MD ones. If you have second thoughts about going to DO school, as of now, I would recommend that you don't. Cause these feelings are pre-programmed and you are just going to look into the negatives.

 

[docbill]

I was agreeing that the DO schools I interviewed at had superior facilities and technology compared to the MD schools that I interviewed at. That is it.

its not the book cover that matters. Its the teaching inside that matters. Some Indian medical schools are much much better in teaching medicine than US schools.

DO schools have lower budget and you will notice that. Sometimes one person doubles with 2 or 3 functions.

 

[Vizsla]

That isn't the reason since DMU is 109 yrs old and KCUMB is 93 yrs old.

well most of these schools also have 200+ students paying mid 30K tuition and are not directly responsible for funding a large university hospital or large research programs. but docbill is right, its the teaching/training that matters, not how shiny the outside/inside is.

 

[Animus]

well most of these schools also have 200+ students paying mid 30K tuition and are not directly responsible for funding a large university hospital or large research programs. but docbill is right, its the teaching/training that matters, not how shiny the outside/inside is.

First you try to refute his opinion and assessment of the schools he saw, then you make a new excuse for how it is. Maybe you should stick to trying for the topic instead of caring about people opinions of schools, not all MD schools are superior even though you may try and push that bias 🙄.


As for the OP, I think Jayne Cobb has clearly refuted all you need to know and Docbill has added that clearly if you want to specialize in certain areas DO residencies are not the best form of education.

In the end you are trying to say that MD education must be better because the residencies are better...how does this make sense when the two are not at all linked, the MD ones were established much earlier and DO's still get in to very good MD programs.

 

[silas2642]

I hope I won't get flamed for this because this is a serious question.

I've read many posts ad nauseum on many forums of SDN that osteopathic residencies are not as good as allopathic residency programs. Hence, many DO students prefer to match into an MD residency due to reasons such as having more options and due to quality.

My question is this: Since MD residencies have a reputation for being a higher quality education than DO residencies in the same field, why does it not stand to reason that the quality of education at an MD school for years MS1-4 is superior to that of a DO education?

Just an observation. It seems that DO students and pre-DOs are being hippocritical.

I don't think it's that osteopathic residencies are inferior to allopathic residencies-- they aren't at all. It's simply that they're not as many of them as there are allopathic residencies. A huge consideration for most students when ranking their programs is location, and when you don't have that many programs to rank in the first place, you may be forced to turn to an alternative source.

 

[Vizsla]

First you try to refute his opinion and assessment of the schools he saw, then you make a new excuse for how it is. Maybe you should stick to trying for the topic instead of caring about people opinions of schools, not all MD schools are superior even though you may try and push that bias 🙄.

if u knew what the definition of refute was, u wouldve realized that i was providing a possible reason (not excuse) for why DO facilities are newer than those in some MD schools. I was not debating the validity of the statement bc im sure its true in some cases. as for the first post, i assumed he already knew that most allo schools are 150-200 yrs old. i dont really know how you got "MD > DO" from my post but like most posters on the DO forums, you have a permanent chip on ur shoulder. its gets kinda annoying for those that have to deal with it over and over, so u might want to think about addressing it soon.

 

[Dr JPH]

I've read many posts ad nauseum on many forums of SDN that osteopathic residencies are not as good as allopathic residency programs. Hence, many DO students prefer to match into an MD residency due to reasons such as having more options and due to quality.

The AOA has done multiple surveys on why so many DO students chose to match into allopathic residencies and the number one reason is always "location".

I would also question the information you are receiving about the quality of DO residencies...most of the people who comment on these boards are Pre-Medical and Medical students...these are the LAST people with any qualification to determine the quality of even their own education, let alone GRADUATE education.

 

[MossPoh]

The AOA has done multiple surveys on why so many DO students chose to match into allopathic residencies and the number one reason is always "location".

I would also question the information you are receiving about the quality of DO residencies...most of the people who comment on these boards are Pre-Medical and Medical students...these are the LAST people with any qualification to determine the quality of even their own education, let alone GRADUATE education.

I think it seems like a pretty obvious answer that location plays a big role. I seriously have no idea what the intention of this thread is besides to piss people off.

My dad is an MD, did his residency in NYC, fellowship in Miami. Years of practice in very busy hospitals. He is now partially retired and works in a small hospital in indiana. In a three week span in a rural-ish location he saw 4 things he had never seen before as a radiologist practicing for nearly 40 years. Location and size of the hospital means ****. His DO counterparts who did osteopathic residencies are just as well trained. In fact, the MD they had who did an allopathic residency was kind of known by others as the inferior guy. As my dad said, some guys get crappy training after medical school. In the end you are the one that does the learning and must take the initiative. Hold yourself accountable for your own learning and stop blaming some invisible resource concern.

You mentioned MGH versus a rural location. I am willing to bet that MGH probably doesn't see as much tropical stuff as the locations in south florida. Are they an inferior program since their residents don't see that as much? Every program serves its purpose. Crap programs exist in both sides. Get over it and do what you can to be the best at what you do.

 

[Animus]

if u knew what the definition of refute was, u wouldve realized that i was providing a possible reason (not excuse) for why DO facilities are newer than those in some MD schools. I was not debating the validity of the statement bc im sure its true in some cases. as for the first post, i assumed he already knew that most allo schools are 150-200 yrs old. i dont really know how you got "MD > DO" from my post but like most posters on the DO forums, you have a permanent chip on ur shoulder. its gets kinda annoying for those that have to deal with it over and over, so u might want to think about addressing it soon.

Right, look at my posting history before you assume things about me. I did look at yours, that is why I knew you like to address this kind of topic with your ideas. Oh and there was no reason to refute, because he was offering his experience, that is my point. If you do not like it offer your own point, do not try and refute his just because you disagree.

 

[Terpskins99]

The AOA has done multiple surveys on why so many DO students chose to match into allopathic residencies and the number one reason is always "location".

I would also question the information you are receiving about the quality of DO residencies...most of the people who comment on these boards are Pre-Medical and Medical students...these are the LAST people with any qualification to determine the quality of even their own education, let alone GRADUATE education.

Ok... and people match at Johns Hopkins because they want to live in Baltimore?

Nice try.

 

[Animus]

Ok... and people match at Johns Hopkins because they want to live in Baltimore?

Nice try.

Oh that is the only allo residency?

Nice try.

 

[MossPoh]

Ok... and people match at Johns Hopkins because they want to live in Baltimore?

Nice try.

Actually, they may. That entire area is very population dense. You are more likely to find someone from baltimore up through new york wanting to return to that area than midwest people applying to small community programs somewhere. In dense areas like that the best way to get a foot in the door for your practice is just to be from there. Granted a hopkins residency can open a lot of doors...depending on the speciality. In general, many people like to return where they live or closer to their family. Besides...they have good crabs.

 

[gotmeds?]

Just an observation. It seems that DO students and pre-DOs are being hippocritical.

Maybe he meant "Hippocratical." You know, like all doctorly and stuff.

 

[Dr JPH]

Ok... and people match at Johns Hopkins because they want to live in Baltimore?

Nice try.

A DO friend of mine who is at Hopkins now as a second year EMED resident chose it because of location.

 

[MaximusD]

Have I ever told you how much I love you JP?

😀

 

[Terpskins99]

A DO friend of mine who is at Hopkins now as a second year EMED resident chose it because of location.

Because Baltimore (read Baltimurder) is one of the most desirable places to live in the country.

Riiiiiiiight.

Here's a theory.... maybe your friend choose to go to Johns Hopkins because its JOHNS HOPKINS. And please, spare us your attempt at comparing Johns Hopkins to PCOM.

 

[mastamark]

The AOA has done multiple surveys on why so many DO students chose to match into allopathic residencies and the number one reason is always "location".

I would also question the information you are receiving about the quality of DO residencies...most of the people who comment on these boards are Pre-Medical and Medical students...these are the LAST people with any qualification to determine the quality of even their own education, let alone GRADUATE education.

True

 

[Shinken]

Have I ever told you how much I love you JP?

😀

Although I'm not a big fan of JP, he does embody the typical experienced and frustrated SDNer in the sense that a lot of stuff written on these pages is innacurate. I think many people read something in a forum and take it as gospel ("It's difficult for DOs to specialize", "DO education is inferior to lower tier MD schools", "All DO hospitals are small, rural hospitals").

I started my SDN "career" as most people do, during the pre-premedical years (before even becoming a serious pre-med). Now I'm a fourth-year and I have slowly come to see SDN as mainly a source of entertainment due to the silly threads and discussions here. However, many times it's very frustrating and infuriating to read some outright wrong statement about the DO profession and having many people believe it.

Even I am an example. I used to be a big, gung-ho, DOs-are-different type of med student. Now that I have finished a clinical year at a DO hospital I've become very disillusioned with the fact that OMM and the whole DO "holistic" thing are pretty much non existent. DOs and MDs are equal in just about everything. Yeah, sometimes a DO will rub someone's neck but that's about it. I read some of my old "pro-DO" posts and I laugh at myself at how naive I was just a couple of years ago. I still love being a DO, however. It's just hard to fit in OMM when you're in the hospital. I'm hoping to use it more in an outpatient basis.

Sorry for the rambling. Back to your regularly scheduled "my dad can beat up your dad" thread.

 

[Dr JPH]

Because Baltimore (read Baltimurder) is one of the most desirable places to live in the country.

Riiiiiiiight.

Here's a theory.... maybe your friend choose to go to Johns Hopkins because its JOHNS HOPKINS. And please, spare us your attempt at comparing Johns Hopkins to PCOM.

Actually I think he went down there for a girl. 😀

 

[Dr JPH]

Although I'm not a big fan of JP, he does embody the typical experienced and frustrated SDNer in the sense that a lot of stuff written on these pages is innacurate. I think many people read something in a forum and take it as gospel ("It's difficult for DOs to specialize", "DO education is inferior to lower tier MD schools", "All DO hospitals are small, rural hospitals").

I started my SDN "career" as most people do, during the pre-premedical years (before even becoming a serious pre-med). Now I'm a fourth-year and I have slowly come to see SDN as mainly a source of entertainment due to the silly threads and discussions here. However, many times it's very frustrating and infuriating to read some outright wrong statement about the DO profession and having many people believe it.

Even I am an example. I used to be a big, gung-ho, DOs-are-different type of med student. Now that I have finished a clinical year at a DO hospital I've become very disillusioned with the fact that OMM and the whole DO "holistic" thing are pretty much non existent. DOs and MDs are equal in just about everything. Yeah, sometimes a DO will rub someone's neck but that's about it. I read some of my old "pro-DO" posts and I laugh at myself at how naive I was just a couple of years ago. I still love being a DO, however. It's just hard to fit in OMM when you're in the hospital. I'm hoping to use it more in an outpatient basis.

Sorry for the rambling. Back to your regularly scheduled "my dad can beat up your dad" thread.

"My uncles friend is a radiologist and he said DOs cant do surgery or write prescriptions in the hospital."

👍

Yeah? Well my uncles friend is a cardiologist and even he knows that Yale surgery almost lost their program 4 years ago. Doh!

Whats in a name? Not a whole lot. 😉

 

[Vix206]

Actually I think he went down there for a girl. 😀

heck, i went to school down there, and i know how baltimore can be one of the most dangerous cities. but there are some nice spots - so don't watch too much of The Wire.

and in my case, if it comes down to it, my boyfriend is going to UMSOM and i'd relocate for him.

yes, people go to hopkins JUST for hopkins. but others may go to hopkins because it's baltimore. who really knows which reason prevails more. let's not try to win arguments with sweeping generalizations. point goes to: JP (he originally backed up his answer with AOA surveys)

 

[white_n_nerdy]

Hey,
Lay off Baltimore. I spent 14 years working and basically living within eyeshot of Hopkins. It is a rough neighborhood, very rough. But, it is my hometown. I would go back to Baltimore in a heartbeat.