SGU Acceptance w/ MSAP

[sirromta]

I was recently admitted to SGU as a provisional admit. The caveat (blessing in disguise actually) is it comes with completing the MSAP program. It's actually a great opportunity to test learning/study skills necessary that will be utilized during term 1. I'm an engineer and need to make a decision fairly soon as they only give you a week to make the decision (MSAP starts mid February).

I have two questions that I hope someone may provide direction:

Question 1:
My experience as a structural and chemical engineer has not exposed me to anatomy and physiology in a formal setting. How much of a disadvantage will this be for me in the MSAP program? I was planning on leaving my job 2-3 months before term 1 to try and best immerse myself in Gray's Anatomy texts/Physio etc. or any other resources I could find.

Question 2:
What are the hard numbers of coming out of SGU and not getting any residency. The data from the NRMP is publishes around 55% of US IMG graduates get residency. SGU advertises 94%. Let's say it's somewhere in the middle at 75%? I'm interested in who didn't residency (anecdotal) or hard statistics.


Also if you have any MSAP resources (lecture slides etc.) I'd greatly appreciate this to better inform me how my ability to do the program.

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[Gambino.]

1. Most med students don't have prior experience in those fields as far as formal education goes seeing as how it is not a pre-req.

2. There are no hard statistics, it does not benefit these schools to give it out but we estimate attrition for big 3 to be in the 25-30% range.
Their match rate includes prelim and international matches but most that do make it out do tend to match (albeit mostly in primary care fields).

If you look through older posts you'll see question 2 has been discussed ad nauseam in these forums.

Side note, read through the accreditation troubles/changes SGU is currently facing. I would not recommend them until it is sorted out. SGU withdrawing CAAM-HP accreditation?

 

[gyngyn]

Question 2:
What are the hard numbers of coming out of SGU and not getting any residency. The data from the NRMP is publishes around 55% of US IMG graduates get residency. SGU advertises 94%. Let's say it's somewhere in the middle at 75%? I'm interested in who didn't residency (anecdotal) or hard statistics.

SGU refuses to give accurate data. Does this not give you pause?

 

[sirromta]

SGU refuses to give accurate data. Does this not give you pause?

Yes this does. But I understand this to be a business and effective advertising.

I'm more interested in whether someone has been able to wade through the data provide statistics. Like simply the number of graduates a year would be enough to get an get a reading.

I feel there's quite a few of us out there that would like to start medical school soon rather than later and can talk ourselves into it, no matter how reluctant we are.

 

[sirromta]

1. Most med students don't have prior experience in those fields as far as formal education goes seeing as how it is not a pre-req.

2. There are no hard statistics, it does not benefit these schools to give it out but we estimate attrition for big 3 to be in the 25-30% range.
Their match rate includes prelim and international matches but most that do make it out do tend to match (albeit mostly in primary care fields).

If you look through older posts you'll see question 2 has been discussed ad nauseam in these forums.

Side note, read through the accreditation troubles/changes SGU is currently facing. I would not recommend them until it is sorted out. SGU withdrawing CAAM-HP accreditation?

Thank you Gambino. The accreditation troubles were not on my radar until reading SDN.

 

[gyngyn]

Yes this does. But I understand this to be a business and effective advertising.

False advertising always leaves me with a bitter taste. In fact, we have laws against it here in the US.

 

[FarmerToDoctor]

https://www.ecfmg.org/resources/Match2020Infographic.pdf

https://studentaid.gov/sites/default/files/st-georges-university-school-medicine.pdf

SGU - Residency Appointment Directory

postgrad.sgu.edu

Facts and Figures about SGU: A fully accredited Caribbean Medical School

See Why SGU Medical School is the largest provider into first-year US residencies for the last 8 years.* | Apply to SGU!

www.sgu.edu

On average, 61% of US IMGs obtain a US residency spot via the NRMP Match. SGU has an on-time graduation rate of 77% for US citizens. While SGU may state that they have a high match rate, nearly 30% of their students obtain residency spots outside of NRMP Match, see third link, read 1st paragraph. Keep in mind, the 61% match rate is for all off-shore medical programs. The actual match rate will vary program to program. My gut-feeling, backed up by no real data, is that SGU's match rate is above 61%.

However, let's do the math with the above published statistics from Student Aid and ECFMG and the enrollment make up published by SGU

There are 6100 students enrolled in the 4-year MD program
68% of those 6100 students are from the U.S.
6100 x 0.68 = 4,148

Let's spread that evenly over 4 classes. It is not evenly distributed but we are assuming this for the ease of this exercise
4,148 / 4 = 1,037 U.S. Students

Number of US students in any given class = 1,037
Number of US students graduating on time (77%) = ~800
Number of US students matching in NRMP (61%) = 487

I would take the on-time graduate rate for US Citizens from SGU to be true as it is published data from the US DOE. Do not take the above example to be true, it was meant to just use the available data. I made some assumptions just for ease. However, it is important to point something out. When looking at the 1st paragraph in the 3rd link, SGU specifically states that ~30% of its graduates find a residency spot through means other than the NRMP Match. Therefore one could assume that through the NRMP Match, ~70% of SGU students obtain a residency spot.

 

[deleted1085158]

DO before SGU

 

[8jsi37]

I was recently admitted to SGU as a provisional admit. The caveat (blessing in disguise actually) is it comes with completing the MSAP program. It's actually a great opportunity to test learning/study skills necessary that will be utilized during term 1. I'm an engineer and need to make a decision fairly soon as they only give you a week to make the decision (MSAP starts mid February).

I have two questions that I hope someone may provide direction:

Question 1:
My experience as a structural and chemical engineer has not exposed me to anatomy and physiology in a formal setting. How much of a disadvantage will this be for me in the MSAP program? I was planning on leaving my job 2-3 months before term 1 to try and best immerse myself in Gray's Anatomy texts/Physio etc. or any other resources I could find.

Question 2:
What are the hard numbers of coming out of SGU and not getting any residency. The data from the NRMP is publishes around 55% of US IMG graduates get residency. SGU advertises 94%. Let's say it's somewhere in the middle at 75%? I'm interested in who didn't residency (anecdotal) or hard statistics.


Also if you have any MSAP resources (lecture slides etc.) I'd greatly appreciate this to better inform me how my ability to do the program.

1. Not having anatomy/physio background won't really put you at a disadvantage but it's helpful if you have some. You can try those textbooks, but the best I found was actually learning in med school. I think you should just enjoy your time off now while you have it. Once you start, you wont have any time. I suggest you don't work full time while the MSAP too because you should treat that as like a real semester 1.

2. 55%? Your data is old. I think the most recent data has it at 61% or so. Regardless 94% is too high for sgu or any caribbean school.

Honestly, I wouldnt recommend SGU because as someone mentioned, their accreditation is a toss up right now. There is no guarantee that they'll secure adequate accreditations for their students to be able to sit for the USLME and then to apply for residency because they might not be ECFMG certified. By going here, you risk the chance of not ever being able to practice in the US. In the past, people would apply to SGU for the "name" and the "prestige" because it was hailed as the "best" in the caribbean. If you must go to the caribbeans and prior to the SGU situation, you would only attend the big 3 (SGU, Ross, AUC). However, due to the current situation, you should only attend Ross or AUC (ONLY if must go and ignore all the other advice). People argued the "name" of your med school in the caribbean is helpful and that's true. Truly, you should only attend the big 3. However, it doesn't really matter as long as you're within the big 3 because the best determining factor for IVs for most residency PDs is your Step 1 score (per the NRMP).

Someone tried to make a point how AUC doesnt have all their cores in one site and how SGU is better on that regards to the rest of the caribbean schools, but I want to say that it's prob more of a AUC thing, rather than SGU being "ahead". Ross has all their core rotations in one location as well. The high cost of SGU prob isn't justifiable imo just for the name, but each to their own.

At the same time you need to think about the opportunity cost going to SGU. You already have a well established career in the US and chemical engineering probably pays decently. Giving that up to go to SGU, taking on 350k+ in debt, and potentially not making it out as well. This ideology would not be the same if you had gotten into a US MD or DO school, but you'd still have to ask if it's worth giving up your career for 200k-300k debt at a US med school. Keep in mind, it takes a few years if not closer to 10 years to pay off that debt.

 

[sirromta]

1. Not having anatomy/physio background won't really put you at a disadvantage but it's helpful if you have some. You can try those textbooks, but the best I found was actually learning in med school. I think you should just enjoy your time off now while you have it. Once you start, you wont have any time. I suggest you don't work full time while the MSAP too because you should treat that as like a real semester 1.

2. 55%? Your data is old. I think the most recent data has it at 61% or so. Regardless 94% is too high for sgu or any caribbean school.

Honestly, I wouldnt recommend SGU because as someone mentioned, their accreditation is a toss up right now. There is no guarantee that they'll secure adequate accreditations for their students to be able to sit for the USLME and then to apply for residency because they might not be ECFMG certified. By going here, you risk the chance of not ever being able to practice in the US. In the past, people would apply to SGU for the "name" and the "prestige" because it was hailed as the "best" in the caribbean. If you must go to the caribbeans and prior to the SGU situation, you would only attend the big 3 (SGU, Ross, AUC). However, due to the current situation, you should only attend Ross or AUC (ONLY if must go and ignore all the other advice). People argued the "name" of your med school in the caribbean is helpful and that's true. Truly, you should only attend the big 3. However, it doesn't really matter as long as you're within the big 3 because the best determining factor for IVs for most residency PDs is your Step 1 score (per the NRMP).

Someone tried to make a point how AUC doesnt have all their cores in one site and how SGU is better on that regards to the rest of the caribbean schools, but I want to say that it's prob more of a AUC thing, rather than SGU being "ahead". Ross has all their core rotations in one location as well. The high cost of SGU prob isn't justifiable imo just for the name, but each to their own.

At the same time you need to think about the opportunity cost going to SGU. You already have a well established career in the US and chemical engineering probably pays decently. Giving that up to go to SGU, taking on 350k+ in debt, and potentially not making it out as well. This ideology would not be the same if you had gotten into a US MD or DO school, but you'd still have to ask if it's worth giving up your career for 200k-300k debt at a US med school. Keep in mind, it takes a few years if not closer to 10 years to pay off that debt.

Thank you 8js37! I have to say, I agree with your points. The accreditation issue is truly scary. I'm going to work on strengthening an application for a fall 2022 admission stateside. I'm just so impulsive and this is the path of least resistance right now that it's hard for me not to just say "let's roll the dice and do this."

 

[Goro]

Thank you 8js37! I have to say, I agree with your points. The accreditation issue is truly scary. I'm going to work on strengthening an application for a fall 2022 admission stateside. I'm just so impulsive and this is the path of least resistance right now that it's hard for me not to just say "let's roll the dice and do this."

That sound you heard off in the distance was SGU whining about losing a potential mark. Their business model is predatory and they prey upon the impatient.

 

[Pxoxo]

I was recently admitted to SGU as a provisional admit. The caveat (blessing in disguise actually) is it comes with completing the MSAP program. It's actually a great opportunity to test learning/study skills necessary that will be utilized during term 1. I'm an engineer and need to make a decision fairly soon as they only give you a week to make the decision (MSAP starts mid February).

I have two questions that I hope someone may provide direction:

Question 1:
My experience as a structural and chemical engineer has not exposed me to anatomy and physiology in a formal setting. How much of a disadvantage will this be for me in the MSAP program? I was planning on leaving my job 2-3 months before term 1 to try and best immerse myself in Gray's Anatomy texts/Physio etc. or any other resources I could find.

Question 2:
What are the hard numbers of coming out of SGU and not getting any residency. The data from the NRMP is publishes around 55% of US IMG graduates get residency. SGU advertises 94%. Let's say it's somewhere in the middle at 75%? I'm interested in who didn't residency (anecdotal) or hard statistics.


Also if you have any MSAP resources (lecture slides etc.) I'd greatly appreciate this to better inform me how my ability to do the program.

Hey I have a 494 mcat and 74% so a 3.0 cgpa and a 70% again 3.0 science gpa. I applied for fall term at SGU. Do you think I’ll get into MSAP Or would I have to go CFP