SGU MD vs. US MPH/reapplying to USMD

[medhearter]

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Hi All,

I've gotten into the Keith b. taylor global scholars program at St. Georges. This program will allow me to study in the UK for my first year, and then in Grenada for my second year, and then in the US for clinical rotations. And I think this option is definitely exciting for all the travelling I'll get to do.

I've also gotten into a 1-year MPH program at an american university

Keep in mind that I had two US-MD interviews this year (Saint Louis and Wayne State), but that I'm on the waitlist for both and may not come off. I have a 3.5, 34Q. So if I reapply in the states, especially with being in the MPH program and all, I think I'll have a better chance at more interviews and maybe acceptances too!

But I'm really confused because. I'm able to go wherever now because both my parents have their jobs and will be able to get a bank loan by putting the house back on mortgage. They keep telling me they might not be in the same scenario next year, if I decide to reapply. So I'm confused.

What would you do? Go ahead to the carribean school? or go with the MPH? is this a no-brainer? its not like i'm dead set on derm or rads or ophthamology or orthopedics. and what are your suggestions on financial aid in case things mess up?

Appreciating your feedback.

a Canadian.

 

[searun]

The U.S. MPH will not add much to your application to U.S. med schools. Basically, it would be a huge waste of money. Personally, I would look for other ways to strengthen my application, e.g. research, more clinical experience and take another shot at getting into a U.S. school, including D.O. schools which are very compatible with your career goals. The carribean is a last resort, no doubt.

Do you really expect your parents finances to crumble in the next 12 months?

 

[Eudjinn]

If you plan on practicing in the US, you should not be going to the caribbean with a 34Q and a 3.5 on even the worst luck....

reapply early and broadly (including DO)

 

[todds]

Im a Canadian that will be attending a US allo this year.

I dont know when you applied, but especially with your stats and a Canadian, applying early and being complete at schools (Im talking late July complete at schools) can make a big difference. Those waitlists can turn into acceptances next year around.

I doubt a MPH will help that much to be honest - and it will likely be expensive as well.

Its April now. Try to get some real good clinical experience between now and end of May. Spend a lot of time on your application and send it in the day AMCAS opens. Send in your transcripts weeks before AMCAS opens. Apply broadly (+ DO schools) and you should have a good chance next year.

Don't do the MPH if you really don't want to be involved in public health. Thats my 2 cents.

 

[Law2Doc]

If you plan on practicing in the US, you should not be going to the caribbean with a 34Q and a 3.5 on even the worst luck....
...

Agreed. If you plan on practicing in the US, your smartest move will be to attend med school in the US. You only look offshore after you fail to get in in the US after multiple attempts -- it's a fine second chance at medicine but should never be looked at as optimal, and someone with the numeric stats really ought to revamp things and try again. That being said, I agree with the prior poster who suggested that an MPH isn't a high yield move to get into med school. Adcoms aren't that impressed with the MPH as a way to bolster your academic credentials, as it's looked at as composed of "soft" sciences. You only go this route if you really want to go into public health. There are masters paths you might do to prove yourself to med schools (eg. SMPs) but this isn't one of them. So yes, it's a no brainer, but the answer is neither of the results you suggested. You need to figure out why you came up short, and try and fix that problem. Put offshore options aside -- that shouldn't enter your consideration at this point. And put the MPH aside because that very likely doesn't address where you came up short. I'm betting you need better ECs, or have weak LORs, or poor essays, and on top didn't wow folks in your interviews. You also perhaps didn't apply widely enough. Ask some of the places you didn't get in at whether they can give you tips for a subsequent cycle -- they may tip their hand as to where you went astray. But task one for you is to figure out where you went wrong, and task two is to fix it. The MPH won't do it -- people with worse stats than you got in and until you fix it, adding another stat that most schools don't go gaga over leaves you pretty much in the same place as before.

 

[drizzt3117]

I personally think the MPH is a good degree to go with if you have an interest in public health, and while it has a smaller effect on helping with your applications than say a SMP (which is completely and totally inappropriate given your profile), it can still help, especially at schools with a strong global health/public health focus. What do you think is the problem with your application? Did you apply broadly? Did you apply late?

 

[Depakote]

Agreed. If you plan on practicing in the US, your smartest move will be to attend med school in the US. You only look offshore after you fail to get in in the US after multiple attempts -- it's a fine second chance at medicine but should never be looked at as optimal, and someone with the numeric stats really ought to revamp things and try again. That being said, I agree with the prior poster who suggested that an MPH isn't a high yield move to get into med school. Adcoms aren't that impressed with the MPH as a way to bolster your academic credentials, as it's looked at as composed of "soft" sciences. You only go this route if you really want to go into public health. There are masters paths you might do to prove yourself to med schools (eg. SMPs) but this isn't one of them. So yes, it's a no brainer, but the answer is neither of the results you suggested. You need to figure out why you came up short, and try and fix that problem. Put offshore options aside -- that shouldn't enter your consideration at this point. And put the MPH aside because that very likely doesn't address where you came up short. I'm betting you need better ECs, or have weak LORs, or poor essays, and on top didn't wow folks in your interviews. You also perhaps didn't apply widely enough. Ask some of the places you didn't get in at whether they can give you tips for a subsequent cycle -- they may tip their hand as to where you went astray. But task one for you is to figure out where you went wrong, and task two is to fix it. The MPH won't do it -- people with worse stats than you got in and until you fix it, adding another stat that most schools don't go gaga over leaves you pretty much in the same place as before.

You've got decent stats. I would guess the problem lies elsewhere in your application. Either you didn't apply early enough, broadly enough or there was some thing in your essays, LORs or other part of your profile that just made the adcoms hesitate.

As mentioned above, if you're going to spend a year in school before applying again, a SMP would be much higher yield than a MPH. They're specifically geared towards medical school admissions and many programs have a linkage element that may not guarantee admissions but would get you a strong look by the hosting institution.

I would avoid going to a foreign MD school at this point for a few reasons. You've got the stats to get into a US institution. Foreign schools have some very high attrition rates in the first and second years. (most of the following is based on the assumption you'll be trying to match in the US, not sure about the Canadian match) The match is getting very competitive for graduates of foreign medical schools. As the number of US Allo grads goes up the number of residency spots is staying relatively static. This year 93% of US grads matched into their desired fields, 70% of DO grads matched into US Allo spots and 50% of Foreign MD grads matched into US Allo spots.

Something to consider is that when the market becomes saturated with US Allo grads, US DO students will still have a residency system they will be able to match into. 4-5 years from now, I expect the match to be very difficult for foreign medical grads.

 

[drizzt3117]

You've got decent stats. I would guess the problem lies elsewhere in your application. Either you didn't apply early enough, broadly enough or there was some thing in your essays, LORs or other part of your profile that just made the adcoms hesitate.

As mentioned above, if you're going to spend a year in school before applying again, a SMP would be much higher yield than a MPH. They're specifically geared towards medical school admissions and many programs have a linkage element that may not guarantee admissions but would get you a strong look by the hosting institution.

I would avoid going to a foreign MD school at this point for a few reasons. You've got the stats to get into a US institution. Foreign schools have some very high attrition rates in the first and second years. (most of the following is based on the assumption you'll be trying to match in the US, not sure about the Canadian match) The match is getting very competitive for graduates of foreign medical schools. As the number of US Allo grads goes up the number of residency spots is staying relatively static. This year 93% of US grads matched into their desired fields, 70% of DO grads matched into US Allo spots and 50% of Foreign MD grads matched into US Allo spots.

Something to consider is that when the market becomes saturated with US Allo grads, US DO students will still have a residency system they will be able to match into. 4-5 years from now, I expect the match to be very difficult for foreign medical grads.

I agree with the fact that the OP shouldn't attend SGU but I don't think a SMP would be a good idea for him. With that stat profile, a MPH would be a better choice, because anything less than top 25% performance in a SMP can hurt you, and being in the top 25% of your class when compared to med students is certainly nowhere near guaranteed.

 

[Law2Doc]

I agree with the fact that the OP shouldn't attend SGU but I don't think a SMP would be a good idea for him. With that stat profile, a MPH would be a better choice, because anything less than top 25% performance in a SMP can hurt you, and being in the top 25% of your class when compared to med students is certainly nowhere near guaranteed.

Still disagree - an MPH isn't a good stepping stone to get into med school, although it can help for certain paths along with a medical degree. You only do this if you want to go into public health, epidemiology or other paths. But it is an often abused path of folks seeking admission because it is perceived as an easy, one year degree. And adcoms see it as such unless you have the genuine public health interest to go along with it. The OP needs to fix whatever it was that caused them not to get into med school. The problem wasn't that they didn't have some "soft" science graduate degree like an MPH. Acing an MPH isn't going to wow a program into taking that person -- they haven't fixed where they came up short, they are just adding another EC. that might be icing on an already good cake, but in OPs case, it's just adding icing on top of something nobody wanted to eat in the first place. Acing an SMP absolutely would make a difference here -- they will have proved they can handle med school; it puts many concerns to rest. Of course if OP came off badly in his/her essays and/or interviews, this doesn't do the job either. So finding out where the issue lies is job number 1.

You are very correct that an SMP is a double edged sword -- you can get yourself in, or cut yourself badly. Doing poorly would be cutting your own legs off. But I would suggest that you needn't be in the top 25%, you just have to do well -- it's not about rank. You are proving you can handle yourself while taking med school caliber courses. If you can't do this, you probably weren't ready for med school anyhow. But sure, it's a gamble. Guess what -- it's all a gamble and you are going to be expected to prove yourself every step of the way from here on out.

 

[drizzt3117]

Still disagree - an MPH isn't a good stepping stone to get into med school, although it can help for certain paths along with a medical degree. You only do this if you want to go into public health, epidemiology or other paths. But it is an often abused path of folks seeking admission because it is perceived as an easy, one year degree. And adcoms see it as such unless you have the genuine public health interest to go along with it. The OP needs to fix whatever it was that caused them not to get into med school. The problem wasn't that they didn't have some "soft" science graduate degree like an MPH. Acing an MPH isn't going to wow a program into taking that person -- they haven't fixed where they came up short, they are just adding another EC. that might be icing on an already good cake, but in OPs case, it's just adding icing on top of something nobody wanted to eat in the first place. Acing an SMP absolutely would make a difference here -- they will have proved they can handle med school; it puts many concerns to rest. Of course if OP came off badly in his/her essays and/or interviews, this doesn't do the job either. So finding out where the issue lies is job number 1.

You are very correct that an SMP is a double edged sword -- you can get yourself in, or cut yourself badly. Doing poorly would be cutting your own legs off. But I would suggest that you needn't be in the top 25%, you just have to do well -- it's not about rank. You are proving you can handle yourself while taking med school caliber courses. If you can't do this, you probably weren't ready for med school anyhow. But sure, it's a gamble. Guess what -- it's all a gamble and you are going to be expected to prove yourself every step of the way from here on out.

There are some schools that strongly value MPH. I attend one of them. Fully 10-15% of my class has MPHs and another 10-15 people are getting the dual degree. Our adcom has made it clear that they value the degree (as a incoming student member I've seen the criteria they use and they award points for MPH degrees, substantial amount too) and I doubt we're the only school that is the same way (although we are the only med school with public health in the name IIRC)

 

[Depakote]

If the OP wants a conservative approach, a health related job (clinical research or something similar) might be the best approach. It would help fund the application process, he (or she) might get a publication out of it which would help strengthen his profile and he could spend some off time getting some more clinical exposure.

SMPs are definitely a double edged sword, but MPHs are a spoon.

 

[Law2Doc]

There are some schools that strongly value MPH. I attend one of them. Fully 10-15% of my class has MPHs and another 10-15 people are getting the dual degree. Our adcom has made it clear that they value the degree (as a incoming student member I've seen the criteria they use and they award points for MPH degrees, substantial amount too) and I doubt we're the only school that is the same way (although we are the only med school with public health in the name IIRC)

Sounds like your school isn't in step with many others here. A dual degree is different -- that suggests a genuine interest, not an admissions tactic. I would suggest that of the 10-15% who have the degree, a large number would have gotten in without it, because it just isnt regarded as that valuable at most places. There have been adcoms who have gone on record and said something to that effect--That it's regarded as a nice EC, but nothing that would make a non-appealing applicant suddenly appealing. At any rate we can agree to disagree on this one. It's not really important to the point at hand.

The OP needs to find out where s/he came up short and fix THAT area. Meaning the OP came up short on something necessary for admissions, not something you can add on that wasn't admissions necessary. See the icing on the cake analogy above. OP shouldn't grasp at an MPH as an admissions ploy (because OP seems to be doing it to make him/herself a stronger applicant, not out of any interest in public health) and hope that's better regarded than a lot of us believe it is. An SMP goes a long way in making a compelling case that the OP can handle med school, if that was an issue. I don't know if it is the major issue here, but it at least addresses admissions shortcomings. Not having an MPH is not an admissions shortcoming -- the vast majority of people who get into med school don't have that degree. Being perceived as not ready to handle med school, however is a common admissions misgiving, and so an SMP would go a long way to address this kind of concern. Again, we don't know for sure why OP didn't get in, but we do know that if asked, the adcom won't say -- it's because s/he didn't have an MPH. You fix what's broke. Not try to get them to overlook what's broke with something else.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
SMPs are definitely a double edged sword, but MPHs are a spoon.

Agreed. And if you go into battle with a spoon, you're forked.

 

[medhearter]

Ok so I'll try and give a little more information about myself here.

I was told at one of the schools where I interviewed "you know, your references have said some really good things about you". and i said "is that right" and she said "yea, you better believe it, i have to say it was an impressive set of references"

so i thought "oh thank god" lol

at my next interview, my interviewer told me "you know it appears that you've been very involved throughout your undergraduate years.. that really comes out in your PS and essays"

and i thought "oh thank god" lol

and yet.... and yet.....

I'm not doing an MPH just to up my stats for med school. I actually do have a genuine interest in public health because I feel that even when I become a doctor, I'm going to want to take some leadership roles into developing new ideas for better delivery of care in the community. This is something that excites me, much more so than an MSc. in physiology. Somehow I feel doing an MSc. would be like doing something for the sake of proving myself, and not for the passion of learning new things. I'm surprised MPH degrees aren't respected as much as I thought they would be... And at the same time, I'm surprised I'm hearing this much praise about SMPs.

But keep the comments coming, the Georgetown SMP program is still taking students.

 

[dw2158]

SMPs are definitely a double edged sword, but MPHs are a spoon.

Agreed. And if you go into battle with a spoon, you're forked.

so, so much win for both of you 👍

 

[drizzt3117]

I think if you have a strong interest in public health, a MPH will help you and that will come through in your applications. I don't think you should do a SMP for the reasons I mentioned, but I'm still interested in hearing:

1) When you applied
2) How many and what schools you applied to
3) Do you feel like there were any specific weaknesses in your app?

I agree with Perrotfish, and also feel the fact that a MPH will help you in residency while a SMP is useless once you're admitted needs to be emphasized more strongly.

 

[medhearter]

Am I the only one that thinks an MPH is a good idea here? The OPs stats are already well within acceptance range for US MD (and well over it for US DO), and an MPH would be something to improve his application. MPHs are great for making decent applications shine. It wouldn't do anything to help a terrible 3.0ish GPA, but then again that's no this guy's problem. And then the MPH will be of significant value further down the line. It will help with residency apps, it will help with fellowships, and it will help with landing a leadership position in the hospital.

An SMP would be almost as bad as the Caribbean for this guy. It would in all probablility hurt more than help, would definitely cost a fortune, wouldn't be useful until applications for the class of 2015, and then once/if he got in would be completely useless. SMPs are generally for people with high MCATs, and a GPA in the range of 2.8-3.3. If that's you're situation, they're fanastic. That's not the OP's situation.

My plan for this guy:

1) First, easy CC courses during the summer to bring that 3.5 up to a 3.6

2) An early, broad application to low tier MD schools and high tier DO schools (PCOM, etc) for this cycle, while doing a 1 year MPH

3) Med school class of 2014, with an MPH that will help you years down the road.

Thank you. This actually sounds really good to me.
I'm a girl though. You all just automatically assume I'm a guy haha.
Yea an MPH is definitely a part of something I want to do with my career in medicine.

I donno about community college courses.... I could take some post-bacc summer courses.. but that would take away from my 1st vacation in 4 years haha... hmmm.. perhaps i could take postbacc courses at the university where i'll do my MPH? take some upper year pathology courses? that could be fun.... any other ideas?

 

[Perrotfish]

I could take some post-bacc summer courses.. but that would take away from my 1st vacation in 4 years haha... hmmm.. perhaps i could take postbacc courses at the university where i'll do my MPH?

The goal here is to get your GPA up to a 3.6 before starting the next application cycle, so it needs to be this summer to be in time. Concurrent with your MPH is too late. If you want more of a vacation, try studying abroad or doing something just plain interesting. examples:

http://www.semesteratsea.org/

www.sea.edu

www.ecela.com

Just make sure the school gives actual grades that you can report. For example I did the ecela thing, and unless you arrange with a 4 year US university to give you a letter grade for the courses you pass in the program, all you get is P/F. That doesn't help.

I'm a girl though. You all just automatically assume I'm a guy haha.

Also, all people claiming to be women on the internet are dudes. I'm not falling for that again.

 

[medhearter]

I think if you have a strong interest in public health, a MPH will help you and that will come through in your applications. I don't think you should do a SMP for the reasons I mentioned, but I'm still interested in hearing:

1) When you applied
2) How many and what schools you applied to
3) Do you feel like there were any specific weaknesses in your app?

1) My AMCAS was verified mid-September or so.
I didn't receive secondaries from Vanderbilt, East Tennessee, NC Chapel Hill, Indiana Uni

I sent my secondary to Albany, and Loma Linda right away.. rejected 6 months later. I sent my secondary to SUNY upstate late Sept, rejected the next week. I sent my secondary to Saint Louis in Oct, interviewed in Feb, (intw was with the dean.. and ... as hard as i tried.. its was though he liked cutting me off consistently and changing the topic) waitlisted. I sent my secondary to Wayne in Nov, interviewed in Jan (thought it went extremely swell, my interviewer even told me she hoped to see me in the next class), waitlisted. Sent my secondary to EVMS, Case, UMaryland, Mich State in Dec, rejected from all of those.

2) Those are all the schools I applied to. Oh and i sent my primary to UKY, and RFU, but had no time to do their secondaries, withdrew.

3) specific weakness: 3.15 second year GPA. otherwise.... no, not really. I feel pretty versatile and good about the application..... oh my 10 in PS, it was a sad story of staying relaxed, and not realizing there was a seventh passage until the last 5 minutes.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Thank you. This actually sounds really good to me.
I'm a girl though. You all just automatically assume I'm a guy haha.
Yea an MPH is definitely a part of something I want to do with my career in medicine.

I donno about community college courses.... I could take some post-bacc summer courses.. but that would take away from my 1st vacation in 4 years haha... hmmm.. perhaps i could take postbacc courses at the university where i'll do my MPH? take some upper year pathology courses? that could be fun.... any other ideas?

The MPH will not help you boost your GPA, but your GPA is not really that bad, so I think as an EC it could really be useful. There are definitely some adcom members who will look favorably on it from an EC perspective. And I agree with others that an expensive and useless (from a professional standpoint) SMP doesn't sound like a great idea. I think your idea about taking postbac courses at your MPH school to boost your GPA is a good one. I'd just have to say make sure those postbac courses will count as undergraduate, NOT graduate courses so that US med schools will count them in your GPA.

Also, were you planning on applying this summer? Because optimally all these improvements should be made before you submit your AMCAS, and you will want to submit your AMCAS as early as possible--definitely do NOT want to send that in in fall, for example...

 

[drizzt3117]

You only applied to 12 schools? I would have applied to at least 25-30 with your stats... that's probably the biggest reason you didn't get in.

 

[scarletgirl777]

1) My AMCAS was verified mid-September or so.
I didn't receive secondaries from Vanderbilt, East Tennessee, NC Chapel Hill, Indiana Uni

I sent my secondary to Albany and Loma Linda right away.. rejected 6 months later. I sent my secondary to Saint Louis in Oct, interviewed in Feb, (intw was with the dean.. and ... as hard as i tried.. its was though he liked cutting me off consistently and changing the topic) waitlisted. I sent my secondary to Wayne in Nov, interviewed in Jan (thought it went extremely swell, my interviewer even told me she hoped to see me in the next class), waitlisted. Sent my secondary to EVMS, Case, UMaryland, Mich State in Dec, rejected from all of those.

December is way too late to be sending in a secondary. Try to get all the unscreened ones in by September. Also, try applying to about 20 schools.

 

[Depakote]

Reapply in June to a greater number of schools. Get a rapid turn around on all your secondaries and I think you'll have a much better application season next year.

 

[amakhosidlo]

How much would summer CC fluff classes honestly benefit a person who's already (I'm assuming) taken upper div. science courses at a 4-year school? One would imagine that the OP's app did in fact get a look (Got interviews = Didn't get tossed on the bases of their GPA...). Maybe their case just wasn't strong enough?

If the OP is already doing the research/volunteer thing, sticking with their activities and showing commitment would seem more desirable than just adding different stuff with > 12 month commitment under basically the same bill...
...maybe that's just me...

I don't know if there's anyone here who can answer this question, but in defense of the MPH idea, would it not confer a noticeable benefit when applying for residencies down the road? Or in Med school for the purposes of research? (again, to pad the eventual residency apps)

 

[drizzt3117]

How much would summer CC fluff classes honestly benefit a person who's already (I'm assuming) taken upper div. science courses at a 4-year school? One would imagine that the OP's app did in fact get a look (Got interviews = Didn't get tossed on the bases of their GPA...). Maybe their case just wasn't strong enough?

If the OP is already doing the research/volunteer thing, sticking with their activities and showing commitment would seem more desirable than just adding different stuff with > 12 month commitment under basically the same bill...
...maybe that's just me...

I don't know if there's anyone here who can answer this question, but in defense of the MPH idea, would it not confer a noticeable benefit when applying for residencies down the road? Or in Med school for the purposes of research? (again, to pad the eventual residency apps)

Yeah it can definitely help, especially for ID or the like.

 

[medhearter]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

I just realized that including my 4th year 1st semester, and my 2nd semester at how its looking now, my cumulative GPA will likely be 3.56. Wow. I really better not screw up my finals! If after this I take a full-course load during the summer and aim 4.0 in all courses, only then will I make it to a 3.6. Only problem with this is that I wont be done in time for the MPH which starts in July.

One question though - about this "apply early" thing. A lot of the schools that I applied to said that it wouldn't have mattered if I applied earlier than I did.. i still wouldve received later consideration based on being an intl/OOS with a not-so-hot GPA....

And even for the places I intwed, the thing with both Wayne State and Saint Louis is that they tend to rank applicants and put them on a waitlist, to accept them later when their turn comes up... so again.. it looks like if i was to apply early/intw early to these schools, and if i rank not so high AGAIN i might end up at a bad location in the waitlist again.....

so far I can think of Case and UKY that might actually look at my app and say "hey... lets consider this one" haha, cuz they tend to not want to rank. or am i wrong about this?

 

[drizzt3117]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

I just realized that including my 4th year 1st semester, and my 2nd semester at how its looking now, my cumulative GPA will likely be 3.56. Wow. I really better not screw up my finals! If after this I take a full-course load during the summer and aim 4.0 in all courses, only then will I make it to a 3.6. Only problem with this is that I wont be done in time for the MPH which starts in July.

One question though - about this "apply early" thing. A lot of the schools that I applied to said that it wouldn't have mattered if I applied earlier than I did.. i still wouldve received later consideration based on being an intl/OOS with a not-so-hot GPA....

so which is that school... that would consider me.. early anyway?

A lot of schools would give you more consideration, and never mind the fact that a lot of the spots will be taken if you apply that late.

 

[medhearter]

The goal here is to get your GPA up to a 3.6 before starting the next application cycle, so it needs to be this summer to be in time. Concurrent with your MPH is too late. If you want more of a vacation, try studying abroad or doing something just plain interesting. examples:

http://www.semesteratsea.org/

www.sea.edu

www.ecela.com

Just make sure the school gives actual grades that you can report. For example I did the ecela thing, and unless you arrange with a 4 year US university to give you a letter grade for the courses you pass in the program, all you get is P/F. That doesn't help.



Also, all people claiming to be women on the internet are dudes. I'm not falling for that again.

haha, i just noticed the add on there. well... i am a girl... but it doesn't really matter i guess anyway. it just makes it easier to read responses when people aren't saying "the OP, he should.." gets me confused haha

no i really wanted to visit india over the summer. so unless... i take courses... in.. an indian university?... no... i still wouldn't take 5 whole courses. really i dont think the 3.6 can be managed at this point. i've really been looking forward to the vacation/volunteering in india trip.

but thank you! for the links and the feedback. and for pointing out that courses taken in the 2009-2010 schoolyear wont go towards consideration.. kicking SMP out of the "good option" pile.

 

[Perrotfish]

no i really wanted to visit india over the summer. so unless... i take courses... in.. an indian university?... no... i still wouldn't take 5 whole courses. really i dont think the 3.6 can be managed at this point. i've really been looking forward to the vacation/volunteering in india trip.

If you had very definite plans don't worry too much about it. The difference between a 3.55 and a 3.6 won't kill your app. Just make sure your trip doesn't interfere with getting your primary out (to 20-25 schools) as soon as AMCAS makes it available

 

[medhearter]

Yeah it can definitely help, especially for ID or the like.

hey.. what's this 'ID'?

 

[Law2Doc]

hey.. what's this 'ID'?

Infectious disease. I think it helps most for epi (epidemiology) though. And that's after you are in med school, not as an applicant.

 

[medhearter]

Infectious disease. I think it helps most for epi (epidemiology) though. And that's after you are in med school, not as an applicant.

This is completely fine. I usually find better success at things that are not merely a means to an immediate end, but rather a means to expansion in perspective and options for an extended period of time. Helps me stay motivated 😀

One question though - I can honestly not think of 20-25 schools to apply to. Here is my list for the 2010 cycle:

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=16782

Any other suggestions?

 

[Law2Doc]

This is completely fine. I usually find better success at things that are not merely a means to an immediate end, but rather a means to expansion in perspective and options for an extended period of time. Helps me stay motivated 😀

One question though - I can honestly not think of 20-25 schools to apply to. Here is my list for the 2010 cycle:

http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=16782

Any other suggestions?

There are more med schools in most of the cities you have chosen. Add in places like Temple, Drexel if you are applying to Jeff in Philly, etc, and so on.

 

[Moonspun]

There are more med schools in most of the cities you have chosen. Add in places like Temple, Drexel if you are applying to Jeff in Philly, etc, and so on.

Agreed, this isn't so hard.

Temple, Drexel, Emory, Albert Einstein, Rosalind Franklin, Rush, Brown, UVA, Albany, Mt. Sinai, Northwestern, UChicago Pritzker, Georgetown, GW...

I'd say your list could include a few more reaches, especially the ones that are interested in Public Health (like Emory and Brown, from my experience). You should check out your LizzyM score and the school selector to get a better idea.

Granted, I don't know the stats on how these schools treat international applicants, but that is easily researched.

 

[ar2388]

you may want to consider adding schools, like maybe AECOM, Temple, Drexel..

Dude! I just saw that you submitted secondaries in November... that is probably a major reason for the lack of success this app cycle.. get your apps in during the summer this time and hopefully that shoudl do it 🙂

 

[medhearter]

Hey,

Temple - no intls, Drexel-no intls, Emory-no intls, Albert Einstein-aren't they a bit of a reach?, Rosalind Franklin-on it, Rush-no intls, Brown-no intls, UVA-im guessing no intls, Albany-take 2 intls, Mt. Sinai-what a reach, Northwestern-reach, UChicago Pritzker-exTREME reach, Georgetown-no intls, GW-2intls...

My LizzyM score gets biased by my MCAT (34) and tells me "Go for it" for more schools than it should!

yea I'm def adding Jefferson. They dont take many intls but the MPH with them should help.

edit: Emory and Brown do take intl's...

 

[medhearter]

you may want to consider adding schools, like maybe AECOM, Temple, Drexel..

Dude! I just saw that you submitted secondaries in November... that is probably a major reason for the lack of success this app cycle.. get your apps in during the summer this time and hopefully that shoudl do it 🙂

when you say AECOM you mean Albert Einstein right? Did you know they interview over 100 internationals and accept about a tenth of that? Never really got that....

 

[Moonspun]

Hey,

Temple - no intls, Drexel-no intls, Emory-no intls, Albert Einstein-aren't they a bit of a reach?, Rosalind Franklin-on it, Rush-no intls, Brown-no intls, UVA-im guessing no intls, Albany-take 2 intls, Mt. Sinai-what a reach, Northwestern-reach, UChicago Pritzker-exTREME reach, Georgetown-no intls, GW-2intls...

My LizzyM score gets biased by my MCAT (34) and tells me "Go for it" for more schools than it should!

yea I'm def adding Jefferson. They dont take many intls but the MPH with them should help.

Okay, again, I think it's fine to include a few reaches! Your stats are not that bad, and I agree with others who have said that some schools really do value MPH. That being said, I'm not sure your intl vs. no intl stats are accurate. I am 100% sure that Emory accepts intls, and they are also pretty heavy on MPH (Rollins SPH, CDC). I also don't think you should write off the schools that take few intls as not worth it. That is the point of applying broadly. Maybe your ECs, LORs, or personal statement will have something they like that will put you above some other applicants.

Anyway, the point is to apply broadly and wisely. That doesn't mean not including reach schools (sometimes more interested in high MCAT, lower GPA). Sometimes schools that you are overqualified for won't interview you because they don't think you are going to attend their school. So I don't think it's crazy to include a few more mid-tier and reach schools, like at least consider it rather than dismissing the idea.

 

[Moonspun]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6930357&postcount=3

See above link.

 

[medhearter]

Okay, again, I think it's fine to include a few reaches! Your stats are not that bad, and I agree with others who have said that some schools really do value MPH. That being said, I'm not sure your intl vs. no intl stats are accurate. I am 100% sure that Emory accepts intls, and they are also pretty heavy on MPH (Rollins SPH, CDC). I also don't think you should write off the schools that take few intls as not worth it. That is the point of applying broadly. Maybe your ECs, LORs, or personal statement will have something they like that will put you above some other applicants.

Anyway, the point is to apply broadly and wisely. That doesn't mean not including reach schools (sometimes more interested in high MCAT, lower GPA). Sometimes schools that you are overqualified for won't interview you because they don't think you are going to attend their school. So I don't think it's crazy to include a few more mid-tier and reach schools, like at least consider it rather than dismissing the idea.

yea u were right. I dont remember why I wrote off Emory when I was doing my MSAR analysis last year lol. I think I got my list up to 20-25. Vandy, Dartmouth, and AECOM will be my reaches.... 😀

You're right, considering that SLU told me my PS was impressive says it might actually have been ok. lol. they decided to intw me despite my gpa below the tenth percentile that they normally accept.....

So thanks all for the motivation! but still its useful to know WHICH schools are the reach schools. In Canada, there are tons of pre-meds applying to med schools cuz they "make the cutoffs".McMaster university has a cutoff of 3.0, and receives 4000 applications, and yet, their median accepted GPA is a 3.9.... Canada is crazy. lol. But still, I'm not going to be applying to Harvard, JHU, Yale, Chicago....

 

[medhearter]

especially the ones that are interested in Public Health (like Emory and Brown, from my experience).

Anyone else here think of any other schools that would have a special public health focus? I'm thinking Jefferson for sure. And as someone here said Tulane.

 

[scarletgirl777]

Hey,

Temple - no intls, Drexel-no intls, Emory-no intls, Albert Einstein-aren't they a bit of a reach?, Rosalind Franklin-on it, Rush-no intls, Brown-no intls, UVA-im guessing no intls, Albany-take 2 intls, Mt. Sinai-what a reach, Northwestern-reach, UChicago Pritzker-exTREME reach, Georgetown-no intls, GW-2intls...

My LizzyM score gets biased by my MCAT (34) and tells me "Go for it" for more schools than it should!

yea I'm def adding Jefferson. They dont take many intls but the MPH with them should help.

edit: Emory and Brown do take intl's...

You should add schools even if you think you are a "reach." Sometimes there is a lot of luck in these things. Also, sometimes a lot of the reach schools are very favorable to internationals.

 

[ar2388]

You should add schools even if you think you are a "reach." Sometimes there is a lot of luck in these things. Also, sometimes a lot of the reach schools are very favorable to internationals.

for some reason I think Cornell may be a good pick.. they seem to like a focus on global/public health

 

[medhearter]

for some reason I think Cornell may be a good pick.. they seem to like a focus on global/public health

Yea except, why would Cornell look past my average stats?

On another note, is it possible to get into Meharry/Howard as a non-URM?

 

[BTC]

I don't think it is your stats. Given the time and money involved, it may be a good idea to hire an admissions consultant. If you find a good one with a lot of experience, they should be able to provide better and more personalized feedback than a bunch of fellow pre-meds on an internet forum.

But here is my uneducated advice:

I don't think the MPH is a bad idea, if and only if, it serves as the BEST WAY to further focus and advance your career aspirations. If that is not the case, do something that will. You're still in school so working for a year or two may really help. I would recommend that to any 'traditional' applicant.

You mentioned that your were 'active' in extracurriculars. Do you exhibit a commitment to any one interest beyond one experience? ie did one experience prompt you to go a another step and get involved further or are your experiences all over the place?

When you do apply, apply to 30 schools and have your primary app in before the end of June. Completely rework your PS. Schools don't want to read the same thing twice (another reason to hire a consultant).

 

[drizzt3117]

I don't think it is your stats. Given the time and money involved, it may be a good idea to hire an admissions consultant. If you find a good one with a lot of experience, they should be able to provide better and more personalized feedback than a bunch of fellow pre-meds on an internet forum.

But here is my uneducated advice:

I don't think the MPH is a bad idea, if and only if, it serves as the BEST WAY to further focus and advance your career aspirations. If that is not the case, do something that will. You're still in school so working for a year or two may really help. I would recommend that to any 'traditional' applicant.

You mentioned that your were 'active' in extracurriculars. Do you exhibit a commitment to any one interest beyond one experience? ie did one experience prompt you to go a another step and get involved further or are your experiences all over the place?

When you do apply, apply to 30 schools and have your primary app in before the end of June. Completely rework your PS. Schools don't want to read the same thing twice (another reason to hire a consultant).

The OP applied to few schools late. That's obviously why they didn't get in.

 

[Law2Doc]

The OP applied to few schools late. That's obviously why they didn't get in.

Not obviously. That's but one possibility. There are dozens of places to go wrong in this process. It's a bad mistake to assume you know the one reason you didn't get in, because it keeps you from fixing other things. Things like the PS and essays, the interview, LORs, typos on the application etc all could send schools running for the hills. Weak ECs could do it. etc. At any rate, as a reapplicant you are required to show substantial improvement over your last application. Which means fixing the too few schools issue won't be enough. There has to be more improvement between now and the next set of interviews or schools are going to just say -- "this isn't any better than last time and we rejected this person last time." They aren't going to try and figure out if it was a timing issue. They are going to assume they had a reason the last time (or if it's a new set of schools, they may assume the prior set had a reason and look for new stuff) and have nothing new to make them overlook it this time. Which is why a lot of reapplicants actually would benefit from skipping a cycle because it's hard to show the beginnings of substantial improvement in April in time to submit in June.

 

[ar2388]

Yea except, why would Cornell look past my average stats?

On another note, is it possible to get into Meharry/Howard as a non-URM?

I think Cornell actually looks at the whole picture.. at least i seem to recall a few people getting in whose stats werent stellar but had fantastic EC's and whatnot. Although my memory could be crap..
oh, i think mount sinai also really likes an emphasis on community involvement..

 

[Perrotfish]

Not obviously. That's but one possibility. There are dozens of places to go wrong in this process. It's a bad mistake to assume you know the one reason you didn't get in, because it keeps you from fixing other things. Things like the PS and essays, the interview, LORs, typos on the application etc all could send schools running for the hills. Weak ECs could do it. etc. At any rate, as a reapplicant you are required to show substantial improvement over your last application. Which means fixing the too few schools issue won't be enough. There has to be more improvement between now and the next set of interviews or schools are going to just say -- "this isn't any better than last time and we rejected this person last time." They aren't going to try and figure out if it was a timing issue. They are going to assume they had a reason the last time (or if it's a new set of schools, they may assume the prior set had a reason and look for new stuff) and have nothing new to make them overlook it this time. Which is why a lot of reapplicants actually would benefit from skipping a cycle because it's hard to show the beginnings of substantial improvement in April in time to submit in June.

Once again, I think your advice and analysis is needlessly pessimistic. I think we have a pretty clear indication of the strength of the OP's origional application: the only two schools she applied to even close to on time interviewed her. When her application was submitted on time, it basically has a 100% accept rate. That implies there weren't many other problems with her app.

Implying that the OP should take a full cycle off with a 3.55 and a 34, which way above the average matriculant stats for most allo schools, is the most pointless kind of pessimism. As long as she applies broadly and on time, and assuming she can demonstrate she did something with her year off other than drink herself to death, she should be just fine.

 

[witness23]

i think what he was saying is to not take anything for granted and make sure all parts of the OPs app has improved and is well-presented. While it might not be too optimistic, I think this mentality can lead to a good proactive approach if the person doesn't panic and stress out too much.

I'd apply again this summer but if she wants an extra year to decorate an application and not be stressed out again, I don't think thats the worst thing that could happen.

Aren't some MPH degrees 2 yrs and cost a crapload?