SGU MD vs. US MPH/reapplying to USMD

[medhearter]

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[ar2388]

yea the one I've got the option for is a 1yr degree at 40K.

I do recognize that if I apply for an MPH after my MD, I could do it for much less money (esp if I apply in a Canadian MPH programl).

So... I'm actually trying to think clearly now.. because I know I can get a 300K CDN bank loan.. and this might just be enough for 4 years of MD. So is it really wise for me to go into my MPH first? I'll really have to figure it out.

The other thing my racing mind has been thinking of is getting a job with an NGO, like admin assistant to doctors without borders, for a year, but their online application seems like a massive blackhole... and I dont know if applications through there actually receive any sifting!

The other thing I'm looking into is getting a clinical research or assistant job for the year.. but I really dont know where to begin with that! I have an appointment with a career counsellor though, on Wednesday.



Oh life would become so much easier if WSU or SLU would just accept me, haha. But then again, I dont think I wouldve had the chance to really think about all the other things I would love to be able to do.

I think a job may be a better idea than an mph... and who knows maybe youll get off one of the waitlists 🙂

 

[Law2Doc]

Once again, I think your advice and analysis is needlessly pessimistic. I think we have a pretty clear indication of the strength of the OP's origional application: the only two schools she applied to even close to on time interviewed her. When her application was submitted on time, it basically has a 100% accept rate. That implies there weren't many other problems with her app.

Implying that the OP should take a full cycle off with a 3.55 and a 34, which way above the average matriculant stats for most allo schools, is the most pointless kind of pessimism. As long as she applies broadly and on time, and assuming she can demonstrate she did something with her year off other than drink herself to death, she should be just fine.

I don't think I'm being pessimistic at all, just realistic. We don't really know why OP didn't get in. Applying late and to too few places are good possibilities, but there are other potential reasons that ought to be explored. It could be nothing, it could be more. But my main concern here is, even if you are correct as to the snag OP hit, as a reapplicant she is now in a different pile. As a reapplicant, you no longer can rely on your 3.55/34. You suddenly are in a position that you have to show "substantial improvement" from the last cycle or the same places won't look at you. You need to think twice before you toss up the same app and hope it sticks better a second time. They don't necessarily remember why they didn't take you, but will see that they didn't. So the focus when considering a reapplicant will be on what did OP do to improve since then. And that doesn't give you a lot of time to work on things. Taking the approach that everything was fine and it just needed to be earlier and to more places might have worked for a non-reapplicant, but it's a harder sell as a reapplicant.

So I'm saying the OP needs a concerted plan to make herself a better applicant before she gets another bite at the same apples. And this coming cycle is coming very soon -- might not be enough time. I get criticized every year for suggesting that reapplicants are held to a different standard, or need to take more time to get all their ducks in a row, and yet I get a lot of IMs from those same folks a few months later when as reapplicants they unfortunately experience what I'm suggesting first hand.

 

[medhearter]

Hi all,
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[medhearter]

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[Depakote]

- I would bet that most of the people that do fail out of a carib school went in thinking they were going to do fine.

-You might not have your heart set on a competitive specialty now, but once you get some exposure you could find yourself changing your mind. It's always a bad idea to limit your options early.

-The match is getting more and more competitive. Options will always be available for USMD and USDO students, Carib students will likely be seeing a noticeable crunch in the next 4-5 years.


That said. You're an adult, it's your call. If you want to go to SGU, go to SGU, you've been apprised of the risks. Best of luck.


Also, please keep your discussions of one topic to a single thread, merging back into the existing discussion.

 

[witness23]

ok i obviously you want to do a MPH to increase your chances, but if you decide not to, and look for a job, you want to apply ASAP.

People really underestimate how hard it is to find a job, esp one that could help an application, pay decently, and keep you happy and human. It is certainly very difficult to get one of those by June. However, I think the question of what you are doing for the following year is pretty important. Don't leave that blank. Don't just say volunteering or the same things you have been doing at undergrad.

You know that you will have more free time after you graduate. It's a good opportunity to add something you enjoy to your app to show a certain side of your personality. be proactive with it! its a tough time for jobs.

good luck

 

[medhearter]

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[Perrotfish]

1) I'm a Canadian, so its not like it'll be cheaper for me to study in the states.

I think you'll find the interest rates you'll be paying on the 100% private loans to the Carib are going to be worse than you'd end up paying for a US med chool

2) I have 0 interest in Surgery, dermatology, and no pressing interests towards rads or optho.

You have no idea what you want to do until you've done rotations

3) I'm also not too excited about DO options as they wont let me practice in Canada..

DOs now have practice rights in the majority of Canada (though their are still exceptions). Ask on the DO forum for more information

4) I think I'll be primarily interested in Family Medicine/Peds/Psych/EM/IM(Neuro, Cardio)......

You have no idea what you want to do until you've done rotations

5) I consider myself a good testwriter, and possibly intelligent/hardworking... (not likely to fail out of SGU, or screw over the USMLEs)

The first problem here is that anyone, however good a test taker, can fail a class. You could have a bad couple of weeks, have a relative pass on, boyfriend trouble, whatever. A lot of med students do it, and get second chances or even conditional passes. In the carib, they just fail you out. Also, less than 50% of foreign grads matched this year. This is something that is beyond networking. Also keep in mind that foreign schools are highly linked to practice rights in the US. Are you 100% sure that an island grad is welcome to practice in Canada?

The other thing my racing mind has been thinking of is getting a job with an NGO, like admin assistant to doctors without borders,

You either need to be a student, or in a job like research assistant with uber-flexible hours. You're going to be interviewing. Regular 9-5 jobs don't take kindly to you up and leaving every few weeks.

They don't necessarily remember why they didn't take you, but will see that they didn't. So the focus when considering a reapplicant will be on what did OP do to improve since then. And that doesn't give you a lot of time to work on things. Taking the approach that everything was fine and it just needed to be earlier and to more places might have worked for a non-reapplicant, but it's a harder sell as a reapplicant.

You keep saying this, but I've not only never seen any statistical evidence for it, I haven't even heard any real anecdotal evidence for it. Basically what you're saying is that if you don't get in, whatever your stats were, that is now below the minimum for medical school admissions. All I can say is that

1) That would be insane

and

2) This is not the experience my reapplicant friends have had.

So agree to disagree, I guess.

 

[free09]

Go to SGU
September 2009-December 2012 (3.5 yrs)
July 2013-May 2016 Residency

Reapply to US MD/Wait
April 2009-June 2009 Improve app if possible (or just apply more broadly)
Summer 2009 Visit India
September-December 2009 Find a daytime activity...in your spare time, you can go on interviews.
February 2010-acceptances/rejections. most likely you would be accepted somewhere. In case you aren't, you can apply Caribbean again.
September 2010-May 2014 Med School
July 2014-May 2017 Residency

You're going to have LOTS of spare time between April 2009 and September 2010. I would start thinking what to do with all that ime.

If you want to go back to Canada, it would be very hard- even if you complete a US residency, they will still discriminate against your foreign degree. If you want to settle in America, then I would save a year and just go to SGU. They have all the electives in the US, and loads of successful students.

 

[birkenbeiner]

There are some schools that strongly value MPH. I attend one of them. Fully 10-15% of my class has MPHs and another 10-15 people are getting the dual degree. Our adcom has made it clear that they value the degree (as a incoming student member I've seen the criteria they use and they award points for MPH degrees, substantial amount too) and I doubt we're the only school that is the same way (although we are the only med school with public health in the name IIRC)

Interesting, do they give points after you have already completed the degree or if you're applying to school while in the program? Either way, this is just 1 school. And there are a lot of applicants who have MPH degrees, some of whom have better stats or are in-state or have additional EC's to go hand-in-hand with the MPH.

 

[Law2Doc]

...If you want to settle in America, then I would save a year and just go to SGU. They have all the electives in the US, and loads of successful students.

But they also have what no US school has -- loads of attrition. Measuring success by the fraction that make it rather than the whole of matriculants is the game carribean schools play to make their numbers and match list look good. But it's no solace to the hundreds of people who go offshore each year, spend tens of thousands of dollars, and wash out. On US paths, a negligible percentage of folks don't make it through, eventually. So it's always worth it to take an extra year or two to avoid having to go offshore. That should be your last option to be a doctor, never your first just to "save a year".

 

[Law2Doc]

...
You keep saying this, but I've not only never seen any statistical evidence for it, I haven't even heard any real anecdotal evidence for it. Basically what you're saying is that if you don't get in, whatever your stats were, that is now below the minimum for medical school admissions. All I can say is that

1) That would be insane

and

2) This is not the experience my reapplicant friends have had.

So agree to disagree, I guess.

I don't know what statistical evidence you think exists on this. Schools don't single out reapplicants to give data on. All I can say is that when I was applying a former adcom gave me an earful as to why it's important not to end up a reapplicant given the different scrutiny they got (at least at his program), and also after EVERY cycle I get an IM or two from folks saying from unfortunate personal experience that I am (he is) still right on this. So yes, I'm saying by virtue of being a reapplicant the bar is now higher -- you now have to show substantial improvement. There are no "do overs". With as many as 10,000 applications, med schools don't dwell on things, and if they see they rejected someone before, they are going to need to see some improvement before they waste their time looking further. They won't have kept copious notes saying -- if this person was a month earlier last time we would have interviewed them. They will just see -- we didn't think much of this app last time so what's new that will change our opinion? That's the whole point of those questions asking in an applicant has submitted AMCAS before or applied to this med school before -- they are making separate piles for appropriate consideration.

 

[drizzt3117]

I don't know what statistical evidence you think exists on this. Schools don't single out reapplicants to give data on. All I can say is that when I was applying a former adcom gave me an earful as to why it's important not to end up a reapplicant given the different scrutiny they got (at least at his program), and also after EVERY cycle I get an IM or two from folks saying from unfortunate personal experience that I am (he is) still right on this. So yes, I'm saying by virtue of being a reapplicant the bar is now higher -- you now have to show substantial improvement. There are no "do overs". With as many as 10,000 applications, med schools don't dwell on things, and if they see they rejected someone before, they are going to need to see some improvement before they waste their time looking further. They won't have kept copious notes saying -- if this person was a month earlier last time we would have interviewed them. They will just see -- we didn't think much of this app last time so what's new that will change our opinion? That's the whole point of those questions asking in an applicant has submitted AMCAS before or applied to this med school before -- they are making separate piles for appropriate consideration.

There were a ton of people during my cycle that were reapps that marginally improved their app (senior grades) and received far more interviews and acceptances then they did the previous year, even at schools they interviewed and were rejected at the previous year. The OP's case will be even a bit different because they didn't apply to that many schools in any case, so if they applied broadly they'd be a new applicant at most of the schools they applied to.

 

[medhearter]

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[BTC]

I'm with Law2Doc on this one.

First, you are just finishing undergrad. Go talk to ANY resident and I'd be willing to bet they wished they took a year or two off doing something outside healthcare before starting med school.

Second, you already applied once. Though it was not an ideal application cycle, you already did it. How many application cycles do you think you have in you? I'm guessing one, so make it count.

Third, with your stats you should absolutely not be going to a Caribbean school. You should do your damndest to get into a school where you will be challenged by your classmates. I have not heard great things about St. Georges. Its a 'for profit' school for pete's sake.

Go do something else for a year or two that will improve your application. At the same time, try to address any parts of your application that you feel might be a weakness (again a good admissions consult will help a ton here) and then reapply early and broadly.

You have too much potential to give it away by risking Caribbean and you have too much at risk to reapply unless you know you have all your bases covered.

 

[medhearter]

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[login]

ok, so i created an account just to reply to this thread...

let me just say first off that i am canadian and know the restrictions you face re: citizenship and schools that accept internationals, the difficulty in getting in in canada and the difficulty in matching.

given that, and the fact that i am in term 1 at sgu right now, i think i am qualified to say, forget about sgu.

if you were a us citizen, sgu would be fine and likely get you where you want to go. being a cdn img trying to match in the us is like having two strikes against you and getting harder and harder. a large number didn't match from sgu this year, plus there are those that have sat out a year or two before matching due to the visa issues.

apply again in the us if you have to, but way earlier than you did. like the first week and/or go DO before sgu.

don't look to the few exceptions that got ortho at u of t and bank on that happening. there are people in the 99th percentile on mccee that didn't match in canada.

 

[medhearter]

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[medhearter]

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[chiz2kul]

There were a ton of people during my cycle that were reapps that marginally improved their app (senior grades) and received far more interviews and acceptances then they did the previous year, even at schools they interviewed and were rejected at the previous year. The OP's case will be even a bit different because they didn't apply to that many schools in any case, so if they applied broadly they'd be a new applicant at most of the schools they applied to.

Have to second this. I will be one of those 😀, and marginally is an understatement hehe

 

[medhearter]

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