SGU or PostBacc??

[omar]

Hey,
is it possible to apply to US schools as a 1st year (NOT TRANSFER) after going to foreign school for a year? I got into SGU and it looks damn more appealing than post-bacc. programs.

It seems to me that it is totally possible to be successful from a respectable foreign medschool, but it looks like you have to work hella harder than U.S. students to get into residency spots that they dont want. That part of the deal seems whack to me. Like you can totally work your ass off and then "be lucky" if you get into something other than internal medicine. Also, are there even going to be residency spots open to foreign grads 4 years from now?? Check this out:
"Another consideration is that the U.S now legislatively restricts the number of residencies available to graduates of foreign medical schools and has stopped reimbursing hospitals for services rendered by foreign-trianed residents." Whats up with that??
omar

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[DrP]

The federal government is closing the doors on foreignt medical graduates; that is a known fact. I rotated with Guadalajara medical students as a student and, unfortunately, although they were pleasant enough and learned spanish ( a definate plus), they were weaker than Maerican medical students.

Guadalajara has a Fifth pathway program that puts you a bit (though not much) ahead of the other foreign graduates. However, you will still get the last of the pick.

Guadalajara is an answer, but you will, undoubtedly have to work harder to get a residency in the United States.

 

[Stephen Ewen]

The federal government is closing the doors on foreign medical graduates; that is a known fact.

That is quite a bit of overstatement. More accurate, would be to say, "That has been the rumor for many years."

Furthermore, assuming the rumor, it would be up in the air as to whether it would be non-US IMGs, US IMGs, or both who would get the cut.

Also, 5th Pathway by its very design evaluates where students weaknesses are and brings them up to speed with their US co-workers.

And 5th PW typically can receive some quite excellent US residency spots.

I am not advocationg for anything with this post; simply trying to bring a more accurate analysis to the situation, and stating fact w/ re to the 5 PW.

 

[stephew]

Once again I have to correct misinformation. That was 1996. Please see 1999 NY times info on REexpansion of residencies...as slimming them down failed.

Its fine for IMGs now. It could always change. But it hasnt so far. And guess what? there is more need than can be filled.

 

[LoserAlert]

Read this article before you consider it. These were people that graduated from their native country, and not caribbean. I think the hurdles are harder for caribbean grads.
http://freepress.com/news/health/docs24_20000724.htm

 

[stephew]

Dear Loser et. al.

haveing been there, done that, and currently in residency at Johns Hopkins in rad onc, a very competitive field, I can discuss this topic personally and authoritatively.

US medical school is the optimal way to go. Barring that, SGU is a viable option.

And the cut back on residencies failed for the sheer reason that..amazingly, people kept getting sick.

No one in their right mind will argue you should opt for the carib if you can go to the us. but this is , as Ive stated before a very viable option. check out reisdency placements for particular schools.
And you are incorrect. that article was not on foreign born doctors, but on expansion of residencies (which include placement and often-for better or worse, preference for) for US citizens going abroad.
All the best,
steph

 

[LoserAlert]

Steph,

congrads on your success. But I believe, as time goes on, you will be the exception rather than the norm. With the passage of the balance budget act some time back, there was speculation that the number of residencies would decrease and foreign graduates' futures would be uncertain. Now, I don't have quantitive research on this matter stating that X number of foreign graduates didn't get residencies, but this article is a qualitative and based on experience. I would agree that if you truely want to become a doctor, and don't get into MD/DO schools, go there...but at a serious risk of not coming back to America to practice. Obviously, there are some successful stories, if there weren't, nobody would go to the caribbean for school.

If you truely believe that you are qualified to become a doctor, and didn't get into any US MD/DO school because of a fluke, then go there, work very hard, and try and come back. But, if you know that deep down inside (whether you will admit it or not), you were not accepted to MD/DO school because of your GPA/MCAT, then go to post bach and raise your credentials. I believe that the standards that US schools have are set for a reason. If your credentials were not good enough for US schools, I beleive your chances of being successful at SGU/ROSS/ETC and then coming back to the US are slim. Because as a SGU/Ross student, you need to do better than most of the US grads on the USMLE to come back to the US. And yes, people do make it back to the US, but by telling every student that I did it, my friend did it, and you can do it too, especially with government making it harder to get residencies, I beleive is irresponsible. Again, I didn't tell people to not go to the caribbean. As you can reread my post, I said read this before you decide to go.

From what I read of the article, it was about foreign doctors not getting residencies. So you are right, technically, it was about smaller residencies. But who does this effect, US grads? NO, it effects foreign grads so it is pertinent to caribbean students. So I find it odd that you got so defensive and said it was about residencies, not foreign grads.

and again, congrats on your success making it back, but how many people in your class during first semester didn't make it back?

Just to add: If a person is truely qualified, encourage them to do it. But don't encourage people who are not qualified and dedicated to overcoming the hurdles. Giving them false hopes only do drop out or not find a US residency, on top of that having 150,000 debt is the worse thing a person can do.

[This message has been edited by LoserAlert (edited 12-22-2000).]

 

[stephew]

Dear LA;

To be honest, and not knowing your personal circumstance, I am a little unsure what you are suggesting for premeds considering going abroad. If you'll allow me: Post bac premed tends to be for those who did not do med in college (myself included). If you did but inadeqately, generally speaking (with exceptions) you dont post bac premed. A repeat performance cant help much -doing well 2nd time around means nothing; it can only hurt if you dont get all a's. You do a masters/grad level course to improve.

Johns Hopkins IS the exception to the rule for IMG placement, but not so much as I think you'd guess. Please check out placements. For SGU, UC Dublin, Royal College of Surgeons, and others. More specificially are the facts; from sgu 99.8% get residencies who are US citizens. the pass rate equals the US mean now (94% first time takers) and 90% of the incoming class make it to the usmle WITH their class (an imporant distinction lesser instutions would have you ignore). Mean/medial score on the USMLE is above the USMLE mean/median butprobably not in a statistically significant.

You mention the need to do better on the USMLE to "come back to the US". I'll only speak to SGU here; you certainly need to do your damnedest in order to get hmore competitive residencies (Er, optho--rad onc even) in more competitive programs. But if you do the basic stuff-IM/FP/Surgery/Obs gyne/ Peds and even rad, you will get a spot most likely even if its not harvard (or the equivilent.) In short, all SGU US citizens bar that 0.2% "come back" to the US. You do have to be reasonable in your expectations, but you do come back.
And practice.

I am very actively involved in trying to help out all Imgs as best I can get where they're going. I can do best for SGU bound US citzens as that's me too. I know the trends quite well.

You found it interesting I sounded defensive; If my post read as defensive, perhaps its because I do deal with misinformation all the time. Particularly the bullyboy who feels good making others feel bad. Perhaps its your screenname which may in fact have nothing to do with your interests here.

So you ask how many of my class made it backto the US? I believe about 20% of my class didnt for the following reasons: 7-10% transfered out to a US school. 10% either "decelled" that is take a slower course and graduated later, failed the step one/two first time around and graduated later, or failed or dropped out.

SGU does pride itself on considering the "whole" applicant but within the boundries of an academic/"by the numbers" profile of someone who can pass the boards.


Anyway I will read that article you've provided. I agree all applicants should go carib only if informed,a nd indeed, if they have the ability to do well. I also think people should only advice others if they have the facts as best at hand as they can.

no one in good conscious should ever suggest a foreign school over a US one if a US is viable. But there are many candidates who will do extremely well on the boards and will have a multitude of opportunity if a US school isn't reasonable.

In several places previously Ive mentioned the key questions for people considering foreign schools to ask. Its up to you to know to ask them. Armed with this I think you can do quite well. I agree if you find you are getting no-where from places that have a strong criteria for admission (that is criteria that helps them belive you will pass the boards) you may consider that medical school is not an option for you; you may not reasonably be expected to pass and so why waste time and money.

But get the facts from honest people who know the system. and be honest with your own abilities.
All the best,
Steph

 

[stephew]

JUst a follow up having read that article.

Coming to the US from licensing in another country is a whole other ball game. Absoltely. Many attendings redo residency.

but: You wrote "I think the hurdles are harder for caribbean grads"

Let me make this clear: I am talking about US citizens who go to US schools. the above is not true at all for this group if one goes to one of the established and respected schools.

If I misunderstood you, sorry; but it read to me like you meant anyone who went to a caribbean school. Which is not at all the case. Your followup post and questions regarding "how many came back" (goodness it isn't quite like war) didn't dissuade me to anything else. Again, sorry if I was wrong.

That is all.