Shadowing a DO????

[ocwaveoc]

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Hey everyone. Good luck with your interviews and the rest of your application process.

Here's my issue. I have an MD to get a recommendation letter from. But, some DO schools will only accept a rec letter from a DO (ie PCOM).
1) How much shadowing is usually done? Obviously I don't have a whole lot of months before the summer. Is 2 hours a week for 2 months good? Or do you suggest more than 2 hours a week and more than 2 months?
2) I live in Hawaii and I found a rehabilitation medicine DO on another island near by where I'd have to fly over to shadow (rehabilitation medicine is my interest since I'm a physical therapist). I was thinking of visiting her if she was willing (for one visit only of course). Would someone who has not worked with me but had contact with me one day be able to give me a rec letter which the shools which only accepts letters from DO schools would actually accept?
Thanks.

 

[AustinFinklea]

Hey everyone. Good luck with your interviews and the rest of your application process.But, some DO schools will only accept a rec letter from a DO (ie PCOM). How much shadowing is usually done? Obviously I don't have a whole lot of months before the summer. Is 2 hours a week for 2 months good? Or do you suggest more than 2 hours a week and more than 2 months?
Thanks.

I would try and devote one whole day per week with a physician. 2 hours a week isnt much. If you didnt know the physician before, 2 hours per week for only 2 months doesnt give him/her enough time to get to know you and write a great LOR.

 

[Marthea007]

The DO i'm shadowing now actually graduated from pcom and worked for the adcoms as a student. PCOM doesn't require a DO LOR but it is highly recommended. She wouldn't even consider writing me one til I'd followed her for 20 hrs. That's a typical amount to time to spend before they'll even consider writing you one. According to her anyways, and I think she's a pretty good source.

 

[SchreiberAL1]

I know LECOM-Erie also requires a DO letter of recommendation. When I visited the school during my Jr. year of college, someone I was touring with asked about this requirement. The admissions lady said that it is used to show them that you have talked to a DO and ask questions concerning the profession. She said it was fine not to spend extended periods of time shadowing the DO as long as you have other clinical experience. Maybe PCOM is the same way?

 

[supersash]

Hey everyone. Good luck with your interviews and the rest of your application process.

Here's my issue. I have an MD to get a recommendation letter from. But, some DO schools will only accept a rec letter from a DO (ie PCOM).
1) How much shadowing is usually done? Obviously I don't have a whole lot of months before the summer. Is 2 hours a week for 2 months good? Or do you suggest more than 2 hours a week and more than 2 months?
2) I live in Hawaii and I found a rehabilitation medicine DO on another island near by where I'd have to fly over to shadow (rehabilitation medicine is my interest since I'm a physical therapist). I was thinking of visiting her if she was willing (for one visit only of course). Would someone who has not worked with me but had contact with me one day be able to give me a rec letter which the shools which only accepts letters from DO schools would actually accept?
Thanks.

1) i agree with what austin said, 1 day a week is a better route if it works for you. 2 hours is nothing. if you're able to be there for a whole shift, you'll really see the work that goes on in a day, the emergencies, the crazy things that happen, etc, etc.
2) speak to the DO before you schedule your visit. tell her/him that you'd love the opportunity to visit, even if just once, and let him/her know your goal is a letter. if you are up front about, hopefully they will be too (and will let you know if its possible after one meeting). i know many people on this board got a DO letter from someone they barely shadowed, or just chatted with. the more experience the better, but you've gotta take what you can get!

lots of luck!!!

 

[Dr. Josh]

1) i agree with what austin said, 1 day a week is a better route if it works for you. 2 hours is nothing. if you're able to be there for a whole shift, you'll really see the work that goes on in a day, the emergencies, the crazy things that happen, etc, etc.
2) speak to the DO before you schedule your visit. tell her/him that you'd love the opportunity to visit, even if just once, and let him/her know your goal is a letter. if you are up front about, hopefully they will be too (and will let you know if its possible after one meeting). i know many people on this board got a DO letter from someone they barely shadowed, or just chatted with. the more experience the better, but you've gotta take what you can get!

lots of luck!!!

wait, you think you can get a letter from a DO that you shadowed for one whole day? Med schools will consider they knew you well enough to write a LOR? Don't they usually want to know how well you knew the applicant?

I was planning on asking a DO, whom I did research for sporadically full days over a period of 6+ months (school breaks). I plan on shadowing him for about a week when I'm on some sort of school break. Is this enough to ask for a LOR? He already wrote me a very good LOR (it was basically a form he had to check things off and then a very short comment) for a volunteer position over the summer.

 

[supersash]

people on this board have said they got a letter from a DO whom they did not shadow, and simply spent a bit of time with. i don't know what their letters looked like. i am sure many physicians (both MD and DO), understand the frustration of these types of letters, and write their letter based upon a meeting, and glancing over a CV or resume.

personally, my DO letter was written by a physician that i spent nearly three years with (not weekly shadowing though, alot was done during school breaks, and here and there). i'd like to think that an admissions committee could see the difference between my letter and someone who's was written by a doc they knew for 10 minutes, but who the hell knows! 😱

but back to your point dr josh, i think you should ask for the letter!

 

[laurenem]

I shadowed a DO for 3 days (in one week), and he was fine with writing me a letter. I think osteopathic schools just want to see that you've had contact with DO's and know what it's about. Osteopathic schools realize that not everyone can have unlimited access to a DO. it doesn't have to be an outstanding letter about your character, as long as you have other solid letters that do reference that. it should emphasize that you showed interest in osteopathic medicine and discussed differences/similarities between DO/MD, I think that's fine. It worked for me.. (disclaimer, I didn't see any of my recommendations... so this is all based on hunches about what they wrote about me)

 

[LINYKid]

im planning on applying nexy yrs cycle and im still trying to find a do to shadow in ny [other than my family doc]. but im debating if i should shadow multiple do's or just one constantly.

anyone w/ shadowing do experience in ny have any ideas?

 

[sharencare]

Well here is my story.
I was thinking about the same thing last year when i had begun applying to DO schools. So as i was browsing this forum i found a link for finding DO mentors in your area and i filled out the form on that site and they emailed DO's in your area. Luckily for me a couple of them replied back. And i met one of them and we talked at length about the profession, what all it entails, what my strengths and weaknesses are, how to approach the application, interviews, everything and at the end of that meeting he said he would love to write a letter for me. I continued talking to him and he helped me a lot with the application, he worked on my PS with me, interviewing tips, etc. etc and gave me an awsome letter as well.

During that entire process i wanted to shadow a DO, to experience if their life was any different than an MD's (i had a fair amount of clinical experience and getting more clinical experience from the shadowing was not my aim) and so shadowed a vascular surgeon for a day in the OR. But i did not get a letter from him, even though he was willing to write it. (because i felt he did know me well enough)

So the summary of my story is you need to know why u are shadowing a DO?
-If your aim is to get a letter only, then there may be other ways of doing it as well and just one meeting with somebody may be enough for it too.
- If you are doing it to understand more about the profession then you may or may not need to shadow the DO for a long period of time.

Hope this helps.

 

[LINYKid]

i would say little of both.
do you have a link to that form for DO mentors?

 

[sharencare]

Here it is- it is a AOA Mentor exchange program. Try it out and see if you can find a good DO mentor.
Good Luck
http://www.osteopathic.org/YOM/Mentor_exchange.htm

 

[ocwaveoc]

I just requested for one of the mentors on that list. Thanks for the info!!

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Personally, I don't see why a DO letter is that big of a deal seeing as most DO's practice just like MD's (no OMM, etc). Since I don't plan on shadowing- I would feel stupid standing around just observing given my extensive clinical background- I really hope to have a DO working in the ED with me when it comes time to apply, otherwise I may be up **** creek without a paddle regarding this when it comes to DO programs (as I'm considering moving to South Carolina and they aren't exactly crawling with DO's).

But then again, you have to love all of those hoops we have to jump through (DO letters, the hated "Why osteopathy?" question, etc) who continue to advocate for the separation of the medical profession for no practical reason but rather for antiquated and outmoded historical differences (although I imagine the fact that they (meaning the AOA 'leadership') would suffer bruised egos if allopathic and osteopathic medicine combined has some role to play in the resistance).

 

[noshie]

Personally, I don't see why a DO letter is that big of a deal seeing as most DO's practice just like MD's (no OMM, etc). Since I don't plan on shadowing- I would feel stupid standing around just observing given my extensive clinical background- I really hope to have a DO working in the ED with me when it comes time to apply, otherwise I may be up **** creek without a paddle regarding this when it comes to DO programs (as I'm considering moving to South Carolina and they aren't exactly crawling with DO's).

Honestly I work with DO's that don't use OMM, but I can still tell a difference in the way they treat their patients, the types of things that they order for the patient, etc. It is not a big difference, but noticable. I know how you feel about shadowing when you have an extensive medical background, but it really is not about seeing patients, I think it is really about seeing the doctor. To see how they think, what kinds of things they see in the ton of information a patient gives them during the exam tells alot about how they sift through the information and get to the bottom line. My work is to shadow doctors, but I still would not mind going and shadowing for free just to get more experience. I have probably done over 1600 hours of shadowing MD's and DO's and getting paid for it, but I would still shadow, not just for a letter, but to learn about the different types of specialties. I know now for sure that I want to be an EM doc but I want to show that I am open minded by going and seeing others, so I will probably still shadow. Learning should never stop, so you shouldn't just stop shadowing because you think you have seen it all. Chances are you will probably see at least something interesting.

 

[noshie]

Oh I forgot to answer the OP's question. Well, I got a letter after shadowing 5 days a week for 3 weeks. The letter was not personable at all I thought. It was just like "blah blah she would make a caring doctor, she is eager to learn, she is capable to going through the rigors of med school, etc." So I think that you should do an interview type thing like everyone else is saying, along with maybe one full day a week of shadowing for a few months. I think my letter would have been much better if I had shadowed him longer or he had gotten to know me more personally after an interview.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

....but it really is not about seeing patients, I think it is really about seeing the doctor. To see how they think, what kinds of things they see in the ton of information a patient gives them during the exam tells alot about how they sift through the information and get to the bottom line.

While I see your point, you also have to remember that I work side by side with docs on a much more intimate level than most premeds, even the ones who work "with" docs. I know how they think, what they order, how they sift through information, etc. I don't need to give up my free time to learn these things- I do them every day.

....but I want to show that I am open minded

Bingo. It has nothing to do with actual interest, but simply about keeping up appearances. At least you're more honest than most on this site. For that, I give you credit. *tips hat*

Learning should never stop, so you shouldn't just stop shadowing because you think you have seen it all. Chances are you will probably see at least something interesting.

Just because I'm not shadowing, doesn't mean I'm not learning. I imagine I see a lot more working in the ICU, the ED and the floors as an RT- actually doing things rather than just depleting the oxygen level in a room- than I ever would just standing around. I find tagging along with a FP doc as he tries to balance out someone's Tenormin, Lasix, and 6 other medications they are on them long term neither intellectually stimulating (for me it ranks right up there with going to a conference about the wonders of pond scum 👍 ) nor worthwhile.

 

[noshie]

Who said it has to be an FP doc. I did not mean that. You could shadow a pulmonologist (probably would be boring for you since your an RT), cardiologist, surgeon, etc. When you said you did not want to shadow I was thinking you meant anyone. There are plenty of DO's that are in specialties that see patients in their office. Obviously you are like me, a fast paced person. I cant stand staying in the room with a patient that has a cough for more then 10 min. Next time I shadow I am going to do something specialized. 🙂

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Eh....I've worked around surgeons, cardiologists (I'm also an echocardiographer), anesthesiologists, and most other specialties outside of dermatology, urology, OB/GYN, and a couple of other......if I were to shadow, it would have to be an extremely interesting opportunity (transplant surgeon, neurosurgeon, neonatologist, etc) for me to bother with.

 

[CTrainSJU]

Personally, I don't see why a DO letter is that big of a deal seeing as most DO's practice just like MD's (no OMM, etc). Since I don't plan on shadowing- I would feel stupid standing around just observing given my extensive clinical background- I really hope to have a DO working in the ED with me when it comes time to apply, otherwise I may be up **** creek without a paddle regarding this when it comes to DO programs (as I'm considering moving to South Carolina and they aren't exactly crawling with DO's).

But then again, you have to love all of those hoops we have to jump through (DO letters, the hated "Why osteopathy?" question, etc) who continue to advocate for the separation of the medical profession for no practical reason but rather for antiquated and outmoded historical differences (although I imagine the fact that they (meaning the AOA 'leadership') would suffer bruised egos if allopathic and osteopathic medicine combined has some role to play in the resistance).

I didn't include a DO LOR for my apps and this doesn't appear to have been a problem for me. I was never asked about it but if I had been my answer would have gone like this: I feel like I want to provide myself with the best LORs possible and not get a DO's rec. b/c it is recommended. The MD that I had write me a letter knows me better as a person than any DO I shadowed due to the amount of time that I spent with the MD. He is the head of the intensive care unit in St. Cloud MN and I shadowed him probably 6-7 times with a good amount sitting around with him just talking. He actually spent the time to get to know me. I COULD have had a DO write me a letter but felt that the MD would be able to give a more rounded, honest response.

Also, I never got asked the "why osteopathy" question in my interviews; which confused me since this is clearly the question I spent the most time formulating the answer to.

 

[ocwaveoc]

I know my MD better since I've worked with him professionally (I'm a physical therapist) and I know he'll write me an excellent letter. But, I do want to send in a letter from a DO as well. They will now know me professionally, of course and only as a shadower. Can I send in both letters?

 

[Taty]

I know my MD better since I've worked with him professionally (I'm a physical therapist) and I know he'll write me an excellent letter. But, I do want to send in a letter from a DO as well. They will now know me professionally, of course and only as a shadower. Can I send in both letters?

Of course.. 🙂