Shadowing abroad??

[ginger.snaps]

Hello everyone,
I'm a junior applying for this upcoming cycle. I shadowed (who is a doctor) back in my country, when I was in high school, before I moved to the U.S., but when I moved here, Covid pandemic hit and I couldn't get any in-person shadowing experiences (however, I do have some virtual shadowing hours). Do medical schools accept abroad shadowing hours??

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[LizzyM]

Shadowing in another country does not tell you anything about what it is like to work as a physician in the US. If you plan to attend medical school in th US and you plan to practice in the US, you should have a look at medical practice in the US before you get in too deep.
It might be disappointing to have to put your plans on hold but you absolutely must have some in-person shadowing (or paid employment working in the US at a physician's elbow) to have a decent shot at admission in the coming cycle.

 

[Goro]

Agree 1000% with my learned colleague. At my school, you'd get rejected for not having domestic shadowing.

 

[YCAGA]

Agree 1000% with my learned colleague. At my school, you'd get rejected for not having domestic shadowing.

How dare you expect me to have a few half-days of exposure to the profession I am trying to join for the next 20-40 years? Haven't you heard there is a dOcTOr SHoRtAGe?!

 

[YCAGA]

LOL I believe I have enough exposure to doctors as I shadowed my father abroad, just didn't shadow doctors in the U.S. and I don't understand why it is necessary to shadow doctors in the U.S. again. The system doesn't make sense but okay

Big oof. You’ve had two experienced adcoms give you some of the least controversial advice there is, and they even explained why.

I would love to hear about this country that has Medicare/Medicaid, ACA, mid-levels, American residency trained doctors and American trained staff, American level of technology, American style billing and documentation, the cultural makeup of the US, etc etc.

 

[ginger.snaps]

Big oof. You’ve had two experienced adcoms give you some of the least controversial advice there is, and they even explained why.

I would love to hear about this country that has Medicare/Medicaid, ACA, mid-levels, American residency trained doctors and American trained staff, American level of technology, American style billing and documentation, the cultural makeup of the US, etc etc.

I see what you are saying, but TBH I literally couldn't care less about the insurance system, etc. My goal is to specialize in medicine, not insurance. Thanks for informing me tho.
(And I appreciate the adcoms caring enough to reply tho)

 

[YCAGA]

I see what you are saying, but TBH I literally couldn't care less about the insurance system, etc. My goal is to specialize in medicine, not insurance.

 

[candbgirl]

This is the perfect reply for that post.

 

[LizzyM]

I literally couldn't care less about the insurance system, etc. My goal is to specialize in medicine, not insurance.

Be sure to write this in your personal statement when you apply with only shadowing from abroad. The adcoms need a good laugh. Due to your lack of US shadowing, you will not get the joke.

 

[GoSpursGo]

when I was in high school

There is a lot wrong with thinking that you know what you're getting yourself into based on shadowing your dad in a foreign country, as highlighted extensively above. But I just wanted to point out that this statement is also key. You're not going to get credit for any shadowing you did before college, because ya know, you were a child.

Not a value judgement on you as a person or a future doctor, it's just how the game is played, and no matter how you may have contempt for the game, you still need to play it. You are not judged in a vacuum, you're judged against other highly qualified applicants, all of whom managed to either get clinical experience despite COVID or did it before the pandemic (but still in college and not with their dad).

I would be shocked if you were accepted with essentially no relevant clinical experience. But if you must waste your money and find out the hard way, so be it.

 

[ginger.snaps]

Be sure to write this in your personal statement when you apply with only shadowing from abroad. The adcoms need a good laugh. Due to your lack of US shadowing, you will not get the joke.

I just had a medical student message me telling me they got in with only having shadowing hours abroad. I honestly am just confused. It's not about me not wanting to get clinical experience, it's about Covid-19 taking away those opportunities away, and yes I'm aware other students have the same disadvantage, but the expectations haven't changed which is unexpected, and it's not helpful at all, since the whole process of applying is not easy under normal circumstances anyways.

 

[Goro]

Well, from my understanding

LOL I believe I have enough exposure to doctors as I shadowed my father abroad, just didn't shadow doctors in the U.S. (cause of Covid, I called many places and no one takes any students) and I don't understand why it is necessary to shadow doctors in the U.S. again. The system doesn't make sense but okay

Did you come here looking for what you wanted to hear, or what you needed to hear?


I just had a medical student message me telling me they got in with only having shadowing hours abroad.
An n=1 is always a great indicator of success in medical school applications.



It's not about me not wanting to get clinical experience, it's about Covid-19 taking away those opportunities away, and yes I'm aware other students have the same disadvantage, but the expectations haven't changed which is unexpected, and it's not helpful at all, since the whole process of applying is not easy under normal circumstances anyways.

Here's a harsh truth: your safety, as well as that of your family and society, is more important than your med school plans.

In the mean time, you can work on your nonclinical volunteering. Venues include scribing, food banks, COVID screening or contact tracing, Meals on Wheels, election poll working (normally done by seniors) and whatever your local houses of worship can suggest.

 

[ginger.snaps]

There is a lot wrong with thinking that you know what you're getting yourself into based on shadowing your dad in a foreign country, as highlighted extensively above. But I just wanted to point out that this statement is also key. You're not going to get credit for any shadowing you did before college, because ya know, you were a child.

Not a value judgement on you as a person or a future doctor, it's just how the game is played, and no matter how you may have contempt for the game, you still need to play it. You are not judged in a vacuum, you're judged against other highly qualified applicants, all of whom managed to either get clinical experience despite COVID or did it before the pandemic (but still in college and not with their dad).

I would be shocked if you were accepted with essentially no relevant clinical experience. But if you must waste your money and find out the hard way, so be it.

I actually have some clinical experience in the US (about 50 hours of volunteering in the ER) before Covid hit.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I actually have some clinical experience in the US (about 50 hours of volunteering in the ER) before Covid hit.

OK. Again, my main point was that even if you think you should get credit for shadowing abroad, anything you did in high school will not count. I generally agree with the goal number of hours you have previously been given.

Sorry if you do not like the advice that you are receiving. If you disagree, you are welcome to apply anyways.

 

[candbgirl]

This is a great thread. Thanks.

 

[YCAGA]

I just had a medical student message me telling me they got in with only having shadowing hours abroad. I honestly am just confused. It's not about me not wanting to get clinical experience, it's about Covid-19 taking away those opportunities away, and yes I'm aware other students have the same disadvantage, but the expectations haven't changed which is unexpected, and it's not helpful at all, since the whole process of applying is not easy under normal circumstances anyways.

I mean did they shadow in Canada? Lol

Canada =/= US but the Canadian and American match systems, medical licensing boards, and medical school and residency accreditation organizations pretty much all recognize credentials issued in the other country. Not saying a Canadian wouldn’t need to shadow here, I just always am amazed by our cooperation with the Canadians when it comes to medical education and it makes me happy.

But other than that interesting aside, what country did you shadow in? I am also confused how you went through freshman-junior year with no shadowing in the US?

 

[ginger.snaps]

Did you come here looking for what you wanted to hear, or what you needed to h

I mean did they shadow in Canada? Lol

Canada =/= US but the Canadian and American match systems, medical licensing boards, and medical school and residency accreditation organizations pretty much all recognize credentials issued in the other country. Not saying a Canadian wouldn’t need to shadow here, I just always am amazed by our cooperation with the Canadians when it comes to medical education and it makes me happy.

But other than that interesting aside, what country did you shadow in? I am also confused how you went through freshman-junior year with no shadowing in the US?

Idk about them, but I shadowed in my home country (middle east, prefer not to say exactly where) before I moved to the US three years ago. I was at first undecided on whether I wanted to pursue medicine or dentistry, so I shadowed a dentist for a while. I also had to figure everything out on my own (including learning English) in the US, and I had no relatives or friends or advisors to inform me about the pre-med journey. I also thought since I shadowed my dad in my country, that would qualify as clinical experience, but apparently it doesn't count (or it seems that way from this thread). I was also working during college, so I think given everything I didn't have all the advantages that most pre-meds do to do everything in my first two years of undergrad.

 

[ginger.snaps]

This is a great thread. Thanks.

Is it???

 

[YCAGA]

Idk about them, but I shadowed in my home country (middle east, prefer not to say exactly where) before I moved to the US three years ago. I was at first undecided on whether I wanted to pursue medicine or dentistry, so I shadowed a dentist for a while. I also had to figure everything out on my own (including learning English) in the US, and I had no relatives or friends or advisors to inform me about the pre-med journey. I also thought since I shadowed my dad in my country, that would qualify as clinical experience, but apparently it doesn't count (or it seems that way from this thread).

All very reasonable and there is no harm in squeezing in some shadowing in the next few weeks before you submit your AMCAS, or delaying your cycle by a year.

I was also working during college, so I think given everything I didn't have all the advantages that most pre-meds do to do everything in my first two years of undergrad.

This attitude will get you nowhere fast, even if it is true. Applying to medical school is not a level playing field, but that is not an excuse to not check basic boxes or to refuse to play the game entirely.