Shadowing and HIPPA

[eatmj2]

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Ive been trying to find doctors to shadow and I keep getting the same answer, which is "We can no longer allow that due to new HIPPA regulations." Is this true or are they just trying to politely tell me no?

 

[shahalam]

i'm shadowing doctor's and it has never come up. maybe you should contact someone from the ol' hippo

 

[doc05]

first off, it's HIPAA. You probably can shadow, but there would be various caveats and much paperwork you'd need to get through.

 

[Flopotomist]

Well, first, it is one P, two As (HIPAA) so if it comes up on a secondary, at least you can spell it right next time 😉

Instead of shadowing, try volunteering.

 

[smsansoucie]

Ive been trying to find doctors to shadow and I keep getting the same answer, which is "We can no longer allow that due to new HIPPA regulations." Is this true or are they just trying to politely tell me no?

I found this on the US Department of Health and Human Service website:

"Do the HIPAA Privacy Rule's minimum necessary requirements prohibit medical residents, medical students, nursing students, and other medical trainees from accessing patient medical information in the course of their training?

No. The definition of “health care operations” in the Privacy Rule provides for “conducting training programs in which students, trainees, or practitioners in areas of health care learn under supervision to practice or improve their skills as health care providers.” Covered entities can shape their policies and procedures for minimum necessary uses and disclosures to permit medical trainees access to patients’ medical information, including entire medical records."

I would think "other trainees" would include premeds shadowing physicians. That said, most physicians won't take any chances with HIPAA. The penalities for a HIPAA violation would be severe enough to put most physicians out of business. When in doubt, oftentimes they will err on the side of caution. The flip side is that if they do not wish to have a "shadow", HIPAA has provided a fine excuse. I have run into this as well, and it is very frustrating as a premed trying to get exposure to the field.

Stephanie

 

[byeh2004]

usually you can get pass the HIPPA stuff as long as you sign some weird hippa agreement

 

[Flopotomist]

usually you can get pass the HIPPA stuff as long as you sign some weird hippa agreement

Grrr... pet peeve of mine, but if you are going to use acronyms, you should know what they stand for, and use them correctly. It is HIPAA (ONE P, TWO A's)

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

Say it with me now ONE P TWO A's

 

[tennisnr]

Ive been trying to find doctors to shadow and I keep getting the same answer, which is "We can no longer allow that due to new HIPPA regulations." Is this true or are they just trying to politely tell me no?

I'm shadowing a neurologist and I just had to go through some lame powerpoint about HIPAA and that was all I needed.

 

[americanangel]

The five docs I've shadowed just made me sign a paper acknowledging HIPAA and other privacy acts.

 

[byeh2004]

Grrr... pet peeve of mine, but if you are going to use acronyms, you should know what they stand for, and use them correctly. It is HIPAA (ONE P, TWO A's)

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

Say it with me now ONE P TWO A's

lol sorry i have a trigger happy finger

 

[zero2hero]

When I volunteered at a local hospital by my school I was forced to watch a three hour video about HIPAA. Suffice to say I want those three hours of my life back. At my internship at another hospital I was not forced to sign some sort of agreement. It might be because I volunteered at a hospital and interned at a private practice that was more relaxed?

 

[abraxas]

I would think "other trainees" would include premeds shadowing physicians.

No other trainees would not include premeds shadowing being that they are not in any course which has gone over the HIPAA regulations. The liability is some times something doctors don't want to deal with, i know that a local hospital was fined $500,000 for a single HIPAA violation.

 

[mshheaddoc]

At one hospital I had HIPAA traing other just a mention. And I'm in the down and dirty.

They use it as an excuse. Offer to sign the HIPAA forms of an employee, BE Persistent because obviously they don't know their guidelines. Some hospitals may not want the liabilities.

 

[LizzyM]

Be persistent?? 😱 No one owes you a shadowing experience. Shadowing a physician does not make you a trainee unless the shadowing experience is part of some kind of course you are taking in school.

The fines for violations of the HIPAA regulations are stiff so you can be sure that many risk adverse docs are going to err on the side of caution. They also have a very limited time to do what they need to do and if a shadow is going to slow them down, they may want to avoid that. Be respectful.

Volunteer. Volunteering gives you a foot in the door. When you cross paths with docs, ask them about their medical careers during a break time. Everyone loves to talk about themselves and you can find out where they went to undergrad & med school, why they chose their specialty, etc. Next thing you know, they will be letting you watch a procedure or showing you how to read a chest x-ray (not that you need to learn that before med school but it is fun).

 

[dajimmers]

Volunteering is fine and dandy, but shadowing is so much better.

Either AMA or AAMC had some publication in favor of student shadowing, but against drug reps shadowing doctors. Something about not being for the good of the patient orthe medical profession. Either way, it seemed to be in favor of premed shadowing.

I have very little shadowing experience, but hope to get more. HIPAA shouldn't get in your way, its purpose is not to prevent better medical education (which shadowing is). Be persistent.

 

[SpeedRacer]

dude, HIPAA sucks. we had to start doing it at this EMS company i worked at...it was like, you're bleeding to death? could you sign this first? with your non-bleeding arm? thanks.

 

[criminallyinane]

I would think "other trainees" would include premeds shadowing physicians.

I highly disagree with this statement. There is a huge difference between a medical student and a pre-med student. A pre-med student is not "training" to become a physician the way a med student is, and as such, is merely following a doc around to learn more about the profession. There is no formalized training involved and pre-meds should not think of themselves as trainees; they are observers, there to learn more about what the profession entails, as opposed to how to treat patients (which is what medical students learn.) Medical students are important members of the healthcare team (even if only because by doing so much scut, they free the physicians up to do the real stuff! But I digress.) Meds are essentially on-staff at the hospital. Pre-meds are guests in the hospital/doctor's office and should never forget this important fact.

 

[albinomidget]

I was assigned a mentor through one of the interest groups at my medical school. When I went to shadow her (she was an intern at the time, I was a MS1), the attending looked at me briefly and said, "You're not going to write down everything you see and put in on the internet are you?!" At first I asked if he was kidding, and then jokingly asked if he wanted me to do just that. But, apparently they had some undergrad shadow the week before, and kept notes on everything that happened. He then posted his whole experience on the net including the patients names, what they came in for, and what happened. Needless to say, anyone with half a brain wouldn't do that, but as long as there are people with less than half a brain, docs will err on the side of caution.

If you really can't find anyone to shadow, then you can volunteer at an Emergency Dept. When you're there, just tell the nurses and docs that you're interested in medicine, and if there is anything interesting going on you'd appreciate it if they would grab you. If you can volunteer at a teaching hospital, then the docs will be more likely to remember that you're around. Otherwise, you'll just be changing sheets and transporting patients as a volunteer. Good luck.

 

[gujuDoc]

Be persistent?? 😱 No one owes you a shadowing experience. Shadowing a physician does not make you a trainee unless the shadowing experience is part of some kind of course you are taking in school.

The fines for violations of the HIPAA regulations are stiff so you can be sure that many risk adverse docs are going to err on the side of caution. They also have a very limited time to do what they need to do and if a shadow is going to slow them down, they may want to avoid that. Be respectful.

Volunteer. Volunteering gives you a foot in the door. When you cross paths with docs, ask them about their medical careers during a break time. Everyone loves to talk about themselves and you can find out where they went to undergrad & med school, why they chose their specialty, etc. Next thing you know, they will be letting you watch a procedure or showing you how to read a chest x-ray (not that you need to learn that before med school but it is fun).

What she said. As far as shadowing an HIPAA goes, I shadowed through a hospital's volunteering program here at USF. Since USF has a med school affiliated with it, there are several several doctors that are professors at the med school and hence love students. As a result, they were really receptive to requests from the former volunteer director, who helped me get my foot in the door. To get HIPAA certified, there was some stuff that I had to read over and then sign too. So you can get around HIPAA by getting HIPAA certified through hospital volunteering programs, etc. and then asking around if doctor's will be willing to let you shadow provided that you can give the certification needed.

 

[gujuDoc]

I was assigned a mentor through one of the interest groups at my medical school. When I went to shadow her (she was an intern at the time, I was a MS1), the attending looked at me briefly and said, "You're not going to write down everything you see and put in on the internet are you?!" At first I asked if he was kidding, and then jokingly asked if he wanted me to do just that. But, apparently they had some undergrad shadow the week before, and kept notes on everything that happened. He then posted his whole experience on the net including the patients names, what they came in for, and what happened. Needless to say, anyone with half a brain wouldn't do that, but as long as there are people with less than half a brain, docs will err on the side of caution.

If you really can't find anyone to shadow, then you can volunteer at an Emergency Dept. When you're there, just tell the nurses and docs that you're interested in medicine, and if there is anything interesting going on you'd appreciate it if they would grab you. If you can volunteer at a teaching hospital, then the docs will be more likely to remember that you're around. Otherwise, you'll just be changing sheets and transporting patients as a volunteer. Good luck.

Wow some people can be so stupid. I have shadowed a lot, but would never ever even think about giving a patient's name and symptoms. The only things I would discuss is the general nature of the kinds of things I observed. In other words, without giving patient info. Meaning that I would describe that the daily routine included out patient visits and that I got a clear understanding of how docs read and take patient histories, analyze previous symptoms and current symptoms to make a correct diagnosis, etc. things of this general nature are better to discuss with shadowing.

 

[gujuDoc]

I highly disagree with this statement. There is a huge difference between a medical student and a pre-med student. A pre-med student is not "training" to become a physician the way a med student is, and as such, is merely following a doc around to learn more about the profession. There is no formalized training involved and pre-meds should not think of themselves as trainees; they are observers, there to learn more about what the profession entails, as opposed to how to treat patients (which is what medical students learn.) Medical students are important members of the healthcare team (even if only because by doing so much scut, they free the physicians up to do the real stuff! But I digress.) Meds are essentially on-staff at the hospital. Pre-meds are guests in the hospital/doctor's office and should never forget this important fact.

Agreed with you. A med student is now an official proffessional student, once accepted to med school. A premed is someone who may not even end up being a doctor. So premeds don't get the same privledges. That said, as a premed, I had much luck with shadowing by talking to people affiliated with teaching hospitals. I also have a few personal family friends that would have helped me out if I asked them too. So try teaching hospitals and doing what LizzyM said.

 

[Medic-to-MD]

I found this on the US Department of Health and Human Service website:

"Do the HIPAA Privacy Rule's minimum necessary requirements prohibit medical residents, medical students, nursing students, and other medical trainees from accessing patient medical information in the course of their training?

No. The definition of “health care operations” in the Privacy Rule provides for “conducting training programs in which students, trainees, or practitioners in areas of health care learn under supervision to practice or improve their skills as health care providers.” Covered entities can shape their policies and procedures for minimum necessary uses and disclosures to permit medical trainees access to patients’ medical information, including entire medical records."

I would think "other trainees" would include premeds shadowing physicians. That said, most physicians won't take any chances with HIPAA. The penalities for a HIPAA violation would be severe enough to put most physicians out of business. When in doubt, oftentimes they will err on the side of caution. The flip side is that if they do not wish to have a "shadow", HIPAA has provided a fine excuse. I have run into this as well, and it is very frustrating as a premed trying to get exposure to the field.

Stephanie

Actually, people shadowing would probably not be included in many administrations' interpretation of HIPAA. Trainees are usually people involved directly in medical education programs such as medical, nursing, PA, paramedic, EMT, etc. I work as a paramedic and after HIPAA was rolled out, we were only able to take EMT and paramedic students along on ride-alongs. However, there are still people who "sneak" ride-alongs. I think it really boils down to who interprets the policy for the given hospital or system, and how closely the practitioners follow the policy.

Try asking a doctor at another hospital or group of hospitals, maybe they have different internal regualtions.