Shadowing for MD PhD

[decidedonmdphd]

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Hey I am planning to apply for an MD PhD program and i was wondering how important shadowing is in one's application. Right now i just ended my second year, but I haven't done any type of shadowing yet. Also, what kind of shadowing would be the most appropriate (by that, i mean in what areas would it be best to shadow, surgery... with a pediatrician ...??)
I need your opinion please.
Thanks!

 

[tremulousNeedle]

Observing physicians practice is pretty much a necessity. An applicant has to be able to demonstrate to adcoms their motivation for medicine and that they know what they are getting into. There are ways to do this without shadowing, but shadowing is by far the most common way to do this

Shadow whatever type of physician interests you.

There are many other threads on SDN that recommend the amount of time you should spend shadowing; search for them.

 

[decidedonmdphd]

you said that shadowing is not the only way to show the admission officers that you know what you are getting into; can you give me some examples? thanks for the prompt reply and the assistance.

 

[unhappytnt]

you said that shadowing is not the only way to show the admission officers that you know what you are getting into; can you give me some examples?

Volunteering at a hospital would be one.

 

[LizzyM]

You need to have worked or volunteered in a patient care area (e.g. the emergency department) or directly with patients in non-patient care areas (e.g. pediatric waiting room or playroom in a hosital or clinic). Otherwise, how would you know you like the environment where you will spend a large portion of your career. (can you imagine going into a PhD in the sciences without ever having stepped foot in a research lab?).

Likewise, you should have some first hand experience of what a physician's day/week/month is like. This could be through shadowing or through the experience of sharing a household with a physician (parent, spouse, etc). You need to have a grasp on the length of the work-day, the sites of the work, the types of work (proportion of patient contact, proportion paperwork and other administrative tasks) and so forth.

 

[NickNaylor]

You need to have some clinical experience, but my understanding of MD/Ph.D admissions is that research experience/achievements are MUCH more important than in normal MD admissions. Get some clinical experience, but I would focus more on trying to get a quality research gig lined up. I will admit, however, that the only thing I know about MD/Ph.D admissions comes from being in a UTSW research program that was essentially a month-long sales pitch.

 

[brooklynblunder]

have some, but they won't ask about it during your 7 MSTP interviews. most of the programs are looking for people who are committed to the lab sciences

 

[URHere]

Although clinical experience is not as important for MD/PhD applicants as it is for their MD-only peers, that doesn't mean that you can apply without it.

Find some sort of volunteering spot - whether it be at a hospital, a small clinic, etc and put in some time there. It doesn't have to be any extravagant amount of time (50-100 hours is probably sufficient), just long enough to give you some idea of medical life outside of lab.

If you are feeling ambitious, I would also suggest finding a practicing MD/PhD to shadow or at least talk to about the path. Go to clinic with them when they go, and ask to sit in on lectures they teach or journal clubs they supervise. MD/PhD attendings who successfully span research, clinic, and academia are very busy people and it would do any applicant some good to watch them in action. This will also help you when you are asked the "Why MD/PhD?" question for the 80th consecutive time.

As for standard MD-shadowing? You can get away without it if you have other clinical experience (i.e. volunteering).

 

[tremulousNeedle]

You need to have worked or volunteered in a patient care area (e.g. the emergency department) or directly with patients in non-patient care areas (e.g. pediatric waiting room or playroom in a hosital or clinic). Otherwise, how would you know you like the environment where you will spend a large portion of your career. (can you imagine going into a PhD in the sciences without ever having stepped foot in a research lab?).

Likewise, you should have some first hand experience of what a physician's day/week/month is like. This could be through shadowing or through the experience of sharing a household with a physician (parent, spouse, etc). You need to have a grasp on the length of the work-day, the sites of the work, the types of work (proportion of patient contact, proportion paperwork and other administrative tasks) and so forth.

Exactly what she said; there are numerous ways to experience the life of physician and to understand what they do on a daily basis. If you can find an activity or activities that accomplish this then go with it.

As a personal example, I worked as an ED tech for ~2 years before applying to medical school. I did NOT need to do any additional shadowing because every day at work I was working side-by-side with doctors and patients.




Regarding the whole MD/PhD thing:


MSTP candidates do experience an emphasis on research during application review and interviews, but typically they must still fulfill the traditional pre-med expectations.

For example, at the med school I attended, the MD/PhD applicants basically went through two application and interview processes; first, they went through the med school adcom, then they went through the grad school selection process. Granted, the final decision for each school was not made in a vacuum, but the applicant usually has to be suitable for both components of the dual degree before they are accepted.

 

[VSU]

Would the adcoms care if the service was volunteer, or payed?
I've been an EMT-B for three years, but I have received pay for every minute of it.
Would they wonder why I didn't volunteer, instead of doing it as a job?

 

[LizzyM]

Would the adcoms care if the service was volunteer, or payed?
I've been an EMT-B for three years, but I have received pay for every minute of it.
Would they wonder why I didn't volunteer, instead of doing it as a job?

It doesn't matter if it is paid or volunteer... but you need some exposure.

You may not be asked about it during MSTP interviews but someone in the med adcom will be looking for it and can derail your application if they find you "unworthy" of medical school admission. ("Why does he want to be a doctor? All of his activities are in the lab; we need to see some exposure to patients.) MSTP candidates need to meet all the criteria written & unwritten for med school admission as well as the criteria for admission to a PhD program.