Shelf Exams

[carrigallen]

I've heard it is good to do Medicine before you do Peds, FP, and Surg. This is because having a background in inpatient medicine is important for the shelf exams of Peds, FP, and Surg. It is too bad that most of us don't get our ideal schedules though.

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[imtiaz]

I've heard it is good to do Medicine before you do Peds, FP, and Surg. This is because having a background in inpatient medicine is important for the shelf exams of Peds, FP, and Surg. It is too bad that most of us don't get our ideal schedules though.

i'm so glad i scheduled rotations the way i did. it will really help out alot. you're totally right about this from what i've been hearing from others. my order is like med, surg, ob, psych, peds. one down 5 to go. fp is yearlong for us, so i don't have to worry about that at all.

 

[Espion]

Having just taken this stupid exam, I can reply in the affirmative...yes, it is a LOT of medicine. I'm trying to think of what, if anything, I could have read or done to prepare for this exam, other than having my surgery rotation last instead of first.

This exam is very tough if it is your first one. I read through NMS, ditched First Aid because I thought it was useless, read Recall to survive the rotation itself, read quite a bit of Current Surgical Diagnosis and a little bit of Lawrence. I did as many practice questions as I possibly could.

Its hard, but try to focus a bit on perioperative care, especially cardio-pulmonary symptoms. Just knowing that the patient can get a pulmonary embolism is not enough. Know why it can occur, how it occurs, how the patient will present, what their blood gases will look like, associated electrolytes and enzymes, what tests you'd order (if any) and management. In fact, if you could know all that for everything you study, you'd do quite well. Perioperative care is not the entire test, but a sizeable enough chunk if you haven't reviewed it at all. (It always seems like it takes up "HALF THE TEST" when you don't know, right? heh)

I also got a couple "what cardiac test would you suggest for preoperative workup" type questions (w/ extensive history of patient included for your confusing convenience). Don't just know, "echo" or "EKG"...because so rarely are the answers that simple. The answers are more like "24h ambulatory EKG" "dobutamine stress echo" "resting echo". Superficial knowledge (like you would get in First Aid) is not enough for this exam. And I think that's exactly why people get into trouble...they approach it like an exam from first or second year.

Personally, I think the best possible thing to do is ask "why?" a lot during your rotation. The hard part is 1. having the luxury and 2. knowing when to ask why (sometimes its hard when you don't even know the question to ask, right?) And just read, read, read and do practice questions.

All in all, I feel really bad about this exam, but I did study for it. (I mean, what business does multiple myeloma have on a surgery exam?) If I'm not too ashamed, I'll let you know how I did on the exam three weeks from now. Maybe I could give better advice in retrospect.

 

[monchi]

All in all, I feel really bad about this exam, but I did study for it. (I mean, what business does multiple myeloma have on a surgery exam?) If I'm not too ashamed, I'll let you know how I did on the exam three weeks from now. Maybe I could give better advice in retrospect.

Thanks for the advice/insight. I'd be interested in your retrospective, if you're up for it - I'll keep an eye out.

MM question, on a gen surg shelf?!?! I was really way off on what a gen surg exam would ask about!

 

[premedmijo]

I'm a little confused, are shelf exams the same across the nation for each specialty?

 

[MDrugger]

Just took the peds shelf today. I thought it was ALOT easier than the medicine one. Though that could be partially cause I actually finished it...

There were alot of "classic" presentations that seemed pretty much right out of blueprints. In reality if I see a kid with high fever and conjunctivitis I probably wouldn't think Kawasakis. But throw in some oral mucosal lesions, lymphadenopathy and a macular rash on the trunk.... and I know what answer the test wants!

I used blueprints, blueprints case studies and pretest and that seemed to be enough, of course I won't know for sure till I get my score back...

 

[tool]

Haven't taken medicine yet but Peds shelf yesterday suck major @$$. I ran out of time and had to guess on the last 15 questions. Nothing "easy" about any shelf me thinks.

 

[mpp]

I'm a little confused, are shelf exams the same across the nation for each specialty?

Yes, shelf exams are the same for everybody across the nation. They are prepared by the National Board of Medical Examiners.

I thought the shelf exam was a lot more like Step 1 than anything else. It has pharmacology, microbiology, anatomy, pathology, pathophysiology, etc. Studying as you would for Step 1 might be best. NMS Surgery is not entirely sufficient (but is very helpful in some respects and overkill in others).

 

[snowinter]

HI!
I bought kaplan Q-bank with their 9 month deal thinking i would use it for step II in JULY .... and in between for NBME's .. but the question's for IM aren't that good. DOESN'T ANYONE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS? have i just not given them enough time?

IS KAPLAN INTERNAL MEDICINE Q-BANK ANY GOOD FOR SHELF NBME?

thanks

 

[InDistress]

Hi Everyone...
I need some advice from you... I have my internal medicine shelf exam on Dec. 16, and I need to figure out what the MOST EFFICIENT way would be to study. I only need to score in the 10th percentile... What do you guys think? I only have the First Aid for the Medicine Clerkship and step 2 kaplan books/... Which would be better to use? What source should I use for practice questions?? Since I need to score only in the 10th percentile, I want to figure out what the best source would be since I only have 1 month left!!!

PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you in advance!!!

 

[Stinger86]

You only need to score in the 10th percentile? You could probably fill in the bubble sheet randomly without even looking at the questions and reach that landmark.

There's no secret to passing the IM shelf. Just pick your favorite book (like First Aid) and study it. If you really must work questions, borrow a Pretest Medicine book from the library and skim through that.

If your goal is so low, why study more than one book, or even for more than one day for that matter?

 

[InDistress]

Thanks for the reply... But is it really that easy to score in the 10th percentile? I haven't taken a single shelf exam yet, and I don't know what to expect yet. There have been some people that I know of who have not been able to pass with the 10th percentile being the cut off at our school. Any suggestions??
Thank you!!!

 

[realruby2000]

Thanks for the reply... But is it really that easy to score in the 10th percentile? I haven't taken a single shelf exam yet, and I don't know what to expect yet. There have been some people that I know of who have not been able to pass with the 10th percentile being the cut off at our school. Any suggestions??
Thank you!!!

i would suggest trying to score higher than 10%-tile...IM is the meat of all of medicine...you should do your best to get a good grasp on it

 

[12R34Y]

MKSAP has been almost unanimously, overwhelmingly recommended if you look back through other threads on this. It is the single best study question source in the history of the universe.

It is the ONLY thing I studied and i got over 90%. most people at my school do nothing but mksap and do quite well. it's been recommended by upper classmen for years.

later

 

[snowinter]

H i does anyone have any ideas/ suggestions re my last post?? thanks!

HI!
I bought kaplan Q-bank with their 9 month deal thinking i would use it for step II in JULY .... and in between for NBME's .. but the question's for IM aren't that good. DOESN'T ANYONE HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS? have i just not given them enough time?

IS KAPLAN INTERNAL MEDICINE Q-BANK ANY GOOD FOR SHELF NBME?

thanks

 

[ginger_flower]

speaking of scoring, how does that work? I have guidelines that a 75 score is needed to bump up a high pass to honors....but what percentile does this correlate to? a 80% or what? I'm confused.....

And, how soon did you get your score after you took it?

 

[MD'05]

InDistress:

Try to memorize as many of the lists that you can out of First Aid.

Do all of the MKSAP 2 for students questions.

If you have time, do Medicine Pretest.

If you have more time, read Blueprints quickly for a review.

Start now.

Leave sdn alone for the month.

Get a good night's rest the night before the test.

You should pass just fine.

 

[dr. neek]

Hey everyone,

I too have the dilemma of not knowing what books to read for the Surgery shelf/rotation. I have First Aid for Surgery and Surgery Recall, but I am unsure about which one to use and when. So far, I am not that impressed with either of them.

Any help would me much appreciated!

Thanks.

 

[phoenixsupra]

***Bump***

Can anyone recomend a good book to use for peds. I can't use blueprints. They just don't work for me. I need something that filets the essential material out a bit more. With BP I just get distracted by all the non science fluff. (was english major). I like the BRS series. Are they detailed enough for the shelf? What else is good?

 

[JKP]

Is there a BRS for peds?
I too like BRS.
BP for OB/Gyn was good but I like outline format much better.
Anyone use NMS?

 

[Hawk22]

Has anyone had any experience with First Aid for Peds? I just like their outline formats a little better...

 

[PACtoDOC]

I just took it yesterday, and it was rather tough and LONG. Like the Peds shelf, it took me the entire time, and I am never one to take long on most exams. I usually finish in half the given time or so.

I used First Aid for Psych, and then followed it with Platinum Vignettes. I think the vignettes are essential for understanding psych, and so you don't get caught up counting symptoms like DSM IV says. One thing was for certain though. There was a ton of internal medicine on the SHELF, and taking Psych after medicine will be of help. There were some questions that had no psych correlate for the most part and where none of the answers was a psych diagnosis.

I'll post my score once I get it, but I think I was as prepared as I could habe been.

Got the grade last week. I got a 99. I now know that my study approach paid off and I cannot underscore enough the importance of doing actual Psychiatry questions before the SHELF. Use Platinum Vignettes or something similar.

 

[dr. neek]

Spank you very much BigFrank...uh, I guess I'll start with Recall and PreTest, however, I heard the A&L Q's are very dissimilar to the actual shelf exam...is that true?

 

[merlin]

what is MKSAP? I've never heard of it...

 

[12R34Y]

Medical Knowledge self-assesment plan (program) or something like that (MKSAP).. you can find it on amazon or where it is made at the website for american college of physicians.
later

 

[Bobblehead]

http://www.acponline.org/catalog/books/mksap_students2.htm

 

[phoenixsupra]

Has anyone had any experience with First Aid for Peds? I just like their outline formats a little better...

No but I was checking it out in the bookstore and it looks useful. So does peds recall. Everything in nice short factoid nuggets. Easy to snack on and digest.

 

[manning18]

I recently took the Neurology shelf exam. I thought it was extremely difficult. Blueprints in Neurology was my main text, though I also did some Pre-Test questions. Unfortunately, I have a feeling I'll have to take the test again. Does anyone have any good suggestions for studying for the Neuro shelf? Thanks!

 

[ThinkFast007]

Any last minute suggestions? Any HY things? I did read the previous posts that were on SDN via the search, but was wondering if anyone encountered anything 'new'.

Also how many ?s and how much time do we get?

Thanks !!

 

[Espion]

Any last minute suggestions? Any HY things? I did read the previous posts that were on SDN via the search, but was wondering if anyone encountered anything 'new'.

Also how many ?s and how much time do we get?

Thanks !!

I'll be taking it in a couple weeks. I was wondering about congenital syndromes/anomalies. (Speaking of...helpful website: http://info.med.yale.edu/pediat/pedres/syndrome/syndrome.html)

I think our shelf exams are usually 100 (or so) questions, 2 hours.

 

[ThinkFast007]

hey guys...

quickly....i swear this feels like i'm taking step 1 over again...this peds shelf is essentially EVERYTHING we've ever learned in med school.

but on that note, do we need to know how to read echos for this exam?

 

[dr. neek]

Hi all,

I just got back my shelf grade, but they didnt release the percentiles yet. I scored an 84 on the medicine shelf, which based on my past shelf experiences, is in the 90s %ile. Does anyone who took the medicine shelf test know what my score translates into? My dean says that if we score higher, more weight is put on our shelf, and since I am on the border with honoring, I am highly curious...

By the way, MKSAP is the way to go for the Med Shelf. Also, pretest is very good review if you have time. First Aid for Med is also a great book if you use it the right way!

Good luck and thanks for your replies guys, I truly appreciate all the help!

 

[djipopo]

First Aid for Med is also a great book if you use it the right way!

just curious -- what is the right way??

 

[ThinkFast007]

just curious -- what is the right way??

ditto that..

 

[bigfrank]

Hey there, our school calculates "honors" based on the shelf exam percentile. I recall that the average for our batch that took the medicine shelf with me a few months ago was an 84, which correlated to the 90th percentile (90%).

Great job, it appears you got the 90% !!

Best,

 

[Gfunk6]

At our school the cumulative three-year average raw score on the Medicine Shelf is a 73/100. This usually curves up 11 points to an 84 which is right about the average score.

Since UAB meets or exceeds Step I average scores annually, I would suspect that a 73 raw score is within the 50th percentile.

 

[dr. neek]

At our school the cumulative three-year average raw score on the Medicine Shelf is a 73/100. This usually curves up 11 points to an 84 which is right about the average score.

Since UAB meets or exceeds Step I average scores annually, I would suspect that a 73 raw score is within the 50th percentile.

sorry dude, you lost me at hello...what did you mean...please explain.

thanks.

 

[Gfunk6]

sorry dude, you lost me at hello...what did you mean...please explain.

thanks.

Sorry, let me try to be a little bit clearer.

The score for the medical shelf is actually two fold:

1. A raw score which is simply the percentage of questions you got correct out of 100. The 3-year average at UAB is 73. This, I assume, is equivalent to about 50th percentile (aka. the top of the bell curve).

2. Some schools do not give you the raw score, but instead the final curved number. At our school they give you both numbers, the raw score and your curved score. The curve at UAB is about 11, making the 3-year average an 84.

You said that your raw score (I assume) was 84. This puts you about 11 points higher than the UAB average which would probably be in the 90th percentile. If you were a student at UAB, your curved score would be a 95, putting you safely in the Honors range.

 

[dr. neek]

just curious -- what is the right way??

ok, so here is what i did...i read thru blueprints once, and correlated it with the subjects in FA Med. Then in the weeks before the test, i did mksap twice, which i recommend if you have the time, and i re-read FAM along with the pre-test questions. in the week before the exam I did some kaplan q-book tests, which are decent, and allow you to test yourself with time. many ppl i know, and ppl on this site have said that time is an issue...i made it out with plenty of time to spare, but i always do on all my shelf exams, so dont listen to me, and definitely train yourself to be timed under pressure. to add the chocolate syrup on top, i read this book called "case files" which was excellent. its long (>500 pgs) but well worth it if you start it like 6 wks before the exam.

Good luck to all!

Gfunk, i think it was my raw score, although I am not sure. I know it was one of the higher scores in my class, so I doubt that it is the 50 %ile, but who knows...we'll see. Thanks for the responses so far!

 

[djipopo]

thanks for your advice and congrats on your score

wish me luck

 

[cubs3canes]

Does it matter MKSAP 1 or 2?

1 is a lot cheaper. Anyone use NMS? So far the NMS series has not been for me, but I want to see if it will work for medicine.

Thanks

 

[Fah-Q]

This was a few years ago but I used First-Aid, Blueprints, and Pre-Test. I scored a 99 on the medicine shelf.

Individual results may vary.

 

[dr. neek]

Does it matter MKSAP 1 or 2?

1 is a lot cheaper. Anyone use NMS? So far the NMS series has not been for me, but I want to see if it will work for medicine.

Thanks

Go with 2!!! I cannot stress it enough how 2 is better than 1. Its worth the extra money. I started 1 after doing 2 and opted to drop 1 and do 2 a second time. Sorry that was confusing...I did MKSAP 2 twice rather than doing MKSAP 1 and 2 once each, and it worked.

 

[14022]

for me, 87 raw score correlated with 96th percentile. I took the test at the end of September.

 

[tega]

88 96 percentile here

second the MKSAP 2 advice...it was golden

 

[E'02]

Hi,

I did the exact same thing as you and ordered Q-bank with the intent to use it for the shelf. I haven't taken Medicine but I've heard from everyone at my school that MKSAP is the book to buy. Good luck!

 

[Mage]

My test is in a few days, but having only been on general for 8 weeks, I haven't really studied any subspecialities besides vascular and cardiothoracic...would Recall be enough for ENT, ortho, urology, and neurosurgery?

 

[Espion]

Also, is there really a lot of hemodynamic monitoring and vent management?

I didn't use Blueprints, so unfortunately, I can't comment there.

As for the other question:

They never asked me..."What should the PEEP settings be?" (Or other similar type management question.)

If someone was in the ICU, they would give you the blood gases, lytes, possibly a CXR and ask...is this pulmonary embolism? ARDS? etc.

When studying, always think...what would I do next?

 

[Espion]

There is a surprising paucity of search results for threads about the Peds shelf.

Anyone have any input?



(Obbbbligatory, Bueller?)

 

[mountaindew2006]

There is a surprising paucity of search results for threads about the Peds shelf.

Anyone have any input?



(Obbbbligatory, Bueller?)

cant say much yet cuz my grade isnt back yet and i dont want to lead ppl astray if i did bad.....
but...basically, it's a medicine exam..cept for lil ppl. It really wasnt that tough, buttttttttttttttttttt believe me its sooo hard to finish the darn thing!