shelf exams

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rhiannon777

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I've noticed that my class's average on shelf exams is in the 70-80th percentile. It's just your standard State U. Med school, so I don't think our class has smarter people or some superior program or anything like that. I've also noticed that I can not study at all, come out of the shelf feeling like I made total guesses on all but about five questions, and still do quite well.

Any idea what's driving the scores up? A classmate suggested that students in other programs like nursing might also be taking them for practice. Just curious.

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I've noticed that my class's average on shelf exams is in the 70-80th percentile. It's just your standard State U. Med school, so I don't think our class has smarter people or some superior program or anything like that. I've also noticed that I can not study at all, come out of the shelf feeling like I made total guesses on all but about five questions, and still do quite well.

Any idea what's driving the scores up? A classmate suggested that students in other programs like nursing might also be taking them for practice. Just curious.

That seems quite high.

My state school scores around the national average (~70) on all shelf exams, but very often our class bumps the score up by 10 points and keeps 90% an A. Are you sure that there's no curve put on them before you see them?

I know that nurses don't take them, so I'm not really sure...
 
I don't think nursing students would be allowed to take the exams, nor would they go towards your school's test score averages.

Plus nursing school prepares you for a different type of exam - more clinical, less basic science.
 
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That seems quite high.

My state school scores around the national average (~70) on all shelf exams, but very often our class bumps the score up by 10 points and keeps 90% an A. Are you sure that there's no curve put on them before you see them?

That's our actual, national percentile rankings. They do a different transformation to make the scores into something that gets averaged into our course grades. Most of our shelf scores have been about the 70th percentile in the nation. Anatomy was the one we really rocked and got about the 80th percentile on.

Do you mean that the national average is the 70th percentile? If that's the case then either someone in NBME really didn't pay attention in statistics or foreign students take the exams as preparation (which indeed might explain how the scores get to be so high).
 
That's our actual, national percentile rankings. They do a different transformation to make the scores into something that gets averaged into our course grades. Most of our shelf scores have been about the 70th percentile in the nation. Anatomy was the one we really rocked and got about the 80th percentile on.

Do you mean that the national average is the 70th percentile? If that's the case then either someone in NBME really didn't pay attention in statistics or foreign students take the exams as preparation (which indeed might explain how the scores get to be so high).

Ohhhhhh, I get what you're thinking now. Sorry, an NBME score of 70 does not mean the 70th percentile. Good god, if they gave you your percentile score as your actual score, then 69% of people would fail the exam. The NBME normalizes all subject exams so that 70 is the average and with a standard deviation of 6-8. So 80 is about the 90th percentile.

The NBME now provides a table to schools to convert the standard score they compute to a percent-correct score, at least for the Years 1/2 basic science exams (source: http://www.nbme.org/PDF/2007subexaminfoguide.pdf).
 
are these shelf exams for the basic sicence courses? if so, most of the upper tier programs don't take shelf exams m1/m2 years. that can explain why its skewed. I've only really heard of the lower tier schools having shelf exams their first two years.
 
are these shelf exams for the basic sicence courses? if so, most of the upper tier programs don't take shelf exams m1/m2 years. that can explain why its skewed. I've only really heard of the lower tier schools having shelf exams their first two years.

It's not skewed. The OP just misunderstood how the grading works.

I'm curious why only lower tier schools take the m1/m2 shelf exams. I've never heard of that before, but certainly can't dispute it.

Anyway, the shelf questions are retired board exam questions and I believe they use the original statistics (i.e. what % of people got this right when taking Step 1) when calculating your score, so all schools are represented.
 
Thanks for the response! I looked at the document you linked above. Based on that document (and maybe I'm still confused), it seems like you're talking about the clinical science tests while I'm talking about the basic science tests. For example, on the most recent one we took, my school told me that my "raw score" was 640, while my "percentile" was 94th (with the class average being at the 80th percentile). If I'm understanding that document correctly, the mean is 500 with a standard deviation of 100, so we actually are doing really well compared to other schools taking the test (or whatever pool they use to standardize the scores). Is there something in there I'm still not getting? Thanks again!

Maybe it has to do with the fact that I'm taking, say, the anatomy shelf when I've JUST had a semester of anatomy, whereas if they standardize from the boards, the people taking it had anatomy a year or two ago and obviously won't remember as many details...
 
Shelf exams are purchased by medical schools and graded by those individual medical schools. How those grades are normalized is up to the school that purchased the particular exam. The raw scores are reported back to the NBME but not any percentiles or normalized scores.

You have no way of knowing whether exactly how your score is normalized unless the faculty at your school is willing to share that information with you. Again, one course may normalize a "shelf" to one mean while another may use another score as a mean. Many schools, mine included, do not even administer these subject-based pre-clinical science exams because they are not very useful. Since most curricula are integrated, subject-based basic science shelf exams are obsolete.

Depending on where your school/department sets the mean, those "percentiles" can end up across a spectrum of grades that are only meaningful to your particular class (and definitely not a means of comparison).

Shelf exams for clinical sciences can be used in a similar manner but in general, a raw percentage of 50% is the mean across the U.S. Our school would normalize that percentage to a mean of 45% and would grade us from there. This meant that we had to score above the national mean in order to pass the shelf. We also had in-house exams for every clinical subject that we took at the end of rotations.

Nursing students and physician assistant students do not take NBME shelf subject exams.
 
It's not skewed. The OP just misunderstood how the grading works.

I'm curious why only lower tier schools take the m1/m2 shelf exams. I've never heard of that before, but certainly can't dispute it.

Anyway, the shelf questions are retired board exam questions and I believe they use the original statistics (i.e. what % of people got this right when taking Step 1) when calculating your score, so all schools are represented.

I have no idea why the ms1/ms2 shelf exams are a lower-tier school thing (maybe because most of the upper tier schools are pass/fail and have integrated curriculums). All I know is that I saw my friends at my state school working a crapload harder than I was during m1 and m2. It's a shame too because that didn't translate to higher board scores, just more work.
 
Bear with me while I try to make sense of this.

Shelf exams are purchased by medical schools and graded by those individual medical schools. How those grades are normalized is up to the school that purchased the particular exam. The raw scores are reported back to the NBME but not any percentiles or normalized scores.

This is definately not true. I've seen the professors take our exams and ship them directly back to the NBME in a well-sealed box. Then the NBME sends the score report back to the school a few days or weeks later. No grading of the exams are done at the school that purchased the exams. I KNOW this to be the case.

You have no way of knowing whether exactly how your score is normalized unless the faculty at your school is willing to share that information with you. Again, one course may normalize a "shelf" to one mean while another may use another score as a mean. Many schools, mine included, do not even administer these subject-based pre-clinical science exams because they are not very useful. Since most curricula are integrated, subject-based basic science shelf exams are obsolete.

It's normalized against the national mean that the NBME has on file because they are the ones that grade it.

I definately don't think the exams are obsolete for a couple of reasons. First off, they are retired board questions and the boards has plenty of subject-based questions on it. Sure there are plenty of interdisciplinary questions on the boards, but those questions end up on multiple subject-based exams. For instance, if a question is a mix of microbiology and pathology, it's fair game for the microbiology shelf and the pathology shelf. This can be aggravating if you haven't had that material yet, but you're in the same boat with the rest of your class, so it all works out.

Depending on where your school/department sets the mean, those "percentiles" can end up across a spectrum of grades that are only meaningful to your particular class (and definitely not a means of comparison).

Shelf exams for clinical sciences can be used in a similar manner but in general, a raw percentage of 50% is the mean across the U.S. Our school would normalize that percentage to a mean of 45% and would grade us from there. This meant that we had to score above the national mean in order to pass the shelf. We also had in-house exams for every clinical subject that we took at the end of rotations.

No, they are standardized by the NBME and sent to your school, which is discussed in the link that I gave above. It was only recently that med schools were even allowed to know what the scores the NBME sent them were equal to in terms of percent. Your second paragraph argues against everything else you've said. How would your school know what the national mean was if they graded your shelf exams in-house?

I don't believe for a second that students at your school had to score above the national mean in order to pass the shelf unless you had an unbelievably large failure rate. You make it sound as if your school's worst student is average at an average school. "Premier schools" would like use to believe that line of thinking, but it's crap. There's a lot more overlap between test scores at the #1 medical school in the country vs. the "worst" med school in the country than is given credit for.
 
The reason you see them at "lower tier" schools is that such schools use the shelf exams to compensate for the less competitive students that end up in their schools. People that get into Harvard Yale whatever are obviously talented and capable of mastering the board material without the frequent practice of shelf exams. People that end up at the lower tier schools probably have lower mcats and might just be terrible exam takers or whatever, but adapting to the style of the board questions and learning how to successfully study for such exams might help some schools students perform at the level of students accepted for more competitive programs. Not to brag or anything, but at my school NYMC we dont have the highest mcats and gpas for admitted students, but on step 1 the class's average score has been several points higher than the step 1 average (~226 versus average of like ~220) that extra practice with board type questions definitely doesnt hurt, and probably helps us understand the ways the board exams are structured. Im sure many of you disagree with the utility of them but whatever, practice makes perfect (by perfect I mean slightly better than average)
 
Should I use Qbank or USMLE world to prepare for my NMBEs at the end of the year?

I am a first year at a state med school.
 
I've been taking NBME exams as finals for my classes, but I was wondering If I could retake any of the NBME exams I have done before at home? Like an online NBME for physiology? Is this possible or should I go to the dean and reshedule to take the exam again?
 
At our school we take system-based NBME generated on-line exam at the end of each system as one of our finals during M1. Our prof's pick the question subject matter resulting in a unique test (which means our score is just averaged to our class by NBME). I guess that doesn't help us figure out how we do nationally, but I think it's helpful just to see the question types. Generally, the questions are a lot more broad than the ones we have on our school written exams.
 

why does that document keep saying "she" whenever it refers to a student? either tulane is an all-girl med school, or some feminist had an axe to grind. i mean that's fine if you don't want to use "he", but it's just as sexist (and more awkward, because it's obvious you're doing it on purpose) to replace it with "she" instead of a gender neutral pronoun.
 
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