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BobLoblaw78 said:
I didn't follow your logic. Usually I disagree with your logic, but this time I just can't even make sense of what you mean. That made you less village sounding.

Bonus content:
The fact that you had the back and forth argument makes you sound more like villageAM.
The fact that zenge was NK'd and I am almost 100% certain you wouldn't do that twice in a row make you very village.
The fact that you may adjust your style puts a little worry in the back of my mind.
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What logic didn't you follow? And what made Cray rank higher than me given I was "almost 100% certain village"?
 
WildZoo said:
I still don't understand why Bob's reads were structured on one end as if Zenge was telling the truth and on the other as if he was lying.
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I'm not sure about your exact question but I will try to explain.

Zenge could be village but wrong about his reads. I was skeptical of zenge, until his flip, about his claim. Just bc zenge flipped village doesn't make his reads correct.
I changed my mind about WZ bc her claim seemed authentic. And maybe just a bit bc I don't want to double down on my poor zenge/WZ wolfpack theory
 
WildZoo said:
What AM said. Plus the reason he gave for voting me was because he thought I was in a pack with Zenge.
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Zenge was not cleared by me when he claimed. But I didn't want to misyeet someone that couldn't easily be NK'd. If WZ had flipped wolf, you can believe I would've been pushing zenge like crazy.

You are right. So a big reason for voting WZ was to determine if zenge/wz was a pack. When zenge flipped village, I lost a big reason for voting WZ. So naturally I moved her up.
 
BobLoblaw78 said:
What about paws sounds wolfy?
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In addition to my earlier points, I didn't like how she was pushing Zenge yesterday, like she knew his claim was fake somehow, or she was hoping to leave the window open for a misyeet there if she thought he was telling the truth
 
BobLoblaw78 said:
I changed my mind about WZ bc her claim seemed authentic. And maybe just a bit bc I don't want to double down on my poor zenge/WZ wolfpack theory
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What claim? She just said she had a PR, she never said what it was or did anything to confirm it. I'm reading Dubz village but that's not a reason
 
WildZoo said:
In addition to my earlier points, I didn't like how she was pushing Zenge yesterday, like she knew his claim was fake somehow, or she was hoping to leave the window open for a misyeet there if she thought he was telling the truth
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So who are you seeing as potential partners for paws?
 
Aprilthearab said:
What claim? She just said she had a PR, she never said what it was or did anything to confirm it. I'm reading Dubz village but that's not a reason
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Yeah. She claimed PR. I don't care what it is as much as I care whether I believe it. If I believe her claim, I don't care to know what it is or feel the need to push for it. Any further info regarding what type of PR only helps wolves.
 
BobLoblaw78 said:
Which reads conflict? I am analyzing everyone separately at this point. The only ones that I considered compatibility was zenge and WZ
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I'm curious about AM moving down despite (by your own reasoning) Zenge's flip giving her village points, Cray conveniently moving up for no readily apparent reason to top village (which seems too high for someone who's been pretty inactive, especially last night) right before she was NKed, Paws being your top wolf read but yeeting Genny instead, and before Zenge's flip, being suspicious of him but still giving AM credit for the Zenge's attempted NK claim. I also thought you said Mel seemed villagey but he was right in the middle of one of your older reads lists and is now a little lower. You moved Dubz from top wolf to higher than Mel - and yes, I know you were thinking a Zenge/WZ pack, but it seems like a very drastic shift. Were you basing Dubz's read entirely off of a possible pack with Zenge, or did you have more reasoning?
 
BobLoblaw78 said:
@Aprilthearab what is your read list now? What are your thoughts on paws?
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Mostly neutral on Paws, there are a few points in both directions. I'm trying to figure out how I feel about last night's vote swing off of her. Last second vote swings off of someone always sketch me out, but Dubz was self prezzing and Zenge flipped village, so it might not mean anything. I have a hard time reading relatively inactive people I haven't played with much before. I somehow missed where she decided not to wolf read Mel anymore so I would like to go back and find it because it might change my read of her, but I'm too weighed down by classes and assignments today

From village to wolf:
AM
Dubz
Paws
Genny
Mel
Bob
 
Aprilthearab said:
I'm curious about AM moving down despite (by your own reasoning) Zenge's flip giving her village points, Cray conveniently moving up for no readily apparent reason to top village (which seems too high for someone who's been pretty inactive, especially last night) right before she was NKed, Paws being your top wolf read but yeeting Genny instead, and before Zenge's flip, being suspicious of him but still giving AM credit for the Zenge's attempted NK claim. I also thought you said Mel seemed villagey but he was right in the middle of one of your older reads lists and is now a little lower. You moved Dubz from top wolf to higher than Mel - and yes, I know you were thinking a Zenge/WZ pack, but it seems like a very drastic shift. Were you basing Dubz's read entirely off of a possible pack with Zenge, or did you have more reasoning?
Click to expand...
I explained AM and Cray.

Paws worked down due to the fact she was least villagey. Zenge got removed. WZ moved up for reasons explained. And yes there were little other reasons (seemed to buddy up with zenge and flipping her would give info on zenge). I don't know Paws meta at all and an iso didn't wasn't revealing to me.

I am okay with yeeting Paws in place of genny but that is about the only one.

AM's tone is way different than last game. Maybe it was the benefit of knowing she was wolf, but I was essentially begging her to play different bc she seemed so wolfy last game. So zenge being NK attempt was one of many reasons.

Mel does seem very village. But I really don't want to be pocketed. And with him reading me village, it makes me even more paranoid! I don't mind having bad reads but I really want to avoid being pocketed by a wolf.

Iso of genny left me feeling like she was low posting and not actively hunting. Seemed to be pushing less. After her iso, I felt like she was most wolf type play. But I still feel like paws is least village (kind of a blurry line).
 
Animal Midwife said:
Do you have reads on everyone?
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I’m working on it. I had anxiety about a procedure for today, and my brain decided the best way to cope with that was to withdraw from life. So I really need to reread. I’m off tomorrow, so I might be able to put in some sustained effort at that time.
 
BobLoblaw78 said:
Lol. I remember a game or two when you were wolfing and you checked out for periods of time. It feels the similar. And you seem slightly more cautious.

I hope your procedure went/goes well.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I do that as a wolf. I also do it as a villager. I just happened to do it most recently as a wolf, so I understand where the read is coming from. But that doesn’t make it any less wrong.
 
WildZoo said:
Mel we've been over this. I don't approach the game the same way you do. I can't take my feels reads and package them into the kind of analysis you like, that's not how my brain works.
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Do you see how this is problematic on multiple levels?

I can’t evaluate your feels to see if you’re actually wolf hunting and therefore can’t evaluate you, and furthermore I can’t use your reads as data to help me evaluate other people. After yesterday I don’t think you’re a wolf anymore, but It’s been 2 days can you give me SOMETHING more substantial to start working with you?




I don’t think wolves would have let that tie stand if WZ was a wolf. Wagon analysis has me concerned about genny mostly.
 
BobLoblaw78 said:
I explained AM and Cray.

Paws worked down due to the fact she was least villagey. Zenge got removed. WZ moved up for reasons explained. And yes there were little other reasons (seemed to buddy up with zenge and flipping her would give info on zenge). I don't know Paws meta at all and an iso didn't wasn't revealing to me.

I am okay with yeeting Paws in place of genny but that is about the only one.

AM's tone is way different than last game. Maybe it was the benefit of knowing she was wolf, but I was essentially begging her to play different bc she seemed so wolfy last game. So zenge being NK attempt was one of many reasons.

Mel does seem very village. But I really don't want to be pocketed. And with him reading me village, it makes me even more paranoid! I don't mind having bad reads but I really want to avoid being pocketed by a wolf.

Iso of genny left me feeling like she was low posting and not actively hunting. Seemed to be pushing less. After her iso, I felt like she was most wolf type play. But I still feel like paws is least village (kind of a blurry line).
Click to expand...
That makes a little more sense. I don't necessarily agree with all of the reasoning, but I appreciate seeing the thoughts

Did you ever answer this? Because I was wondering the same thing when I was re-reading your earlier justifications, especially since the non-logic-following is the only reason you bumped AM down when you made a whole bunch of other points to read AM village and only said Cray sounds more villagey because of meta
Animal Midwife said:
What logic didn't you follow? And what made Cray rank higher than me given I was "almost 100% certain village"?
Click to expand...
 
Melchizedek said:
Do you see how this is problematic on multiple levels?

I can’t evaluate your feels to see if you’re actually wolf hunting and therefore can’t evaluate you, and furthermore I can’t use your reads as data to help me evaluate other people. After yesterday I don’t think you’re a wolf anymore, but It’s been 2 days can you give me SOMETHING more substantial to start working with you?




I don’t think wolves would have let that tie stand if WZ was a wolf. Wagon analysis has me concerned about genny mostly.
Click to expand...
I have given more detailed thoughts where I have them. Is there something in particular you want me to expand on? Unfortunately this part of the game is not my analytical strong suit. I usually have more than feels and meta reads once one wolf flips and I can look at VCA and interactions. I've never been good at finding the first wolf.
 
WildZoo said:
I have given more detailed thoughts where I have them. Is there something in particular you want me to expand on? Unfortunately this part of the game is not my analytical strong suit. I usually have more than feels and meta reads once one wolf flips and I can look at VCA and interactions. I've never been good at finding the first wolf.
Click to expand...
You mentioned you thought you saw The genny Way™ I had been thinking so too.
I’m going through my notes and the April interactions still seem off but now I’m wondering if genny is the wolf in those. Genny’s POE from earlier that cycle was April, Paws, cray, and zenge so at least two confirmed villagers. How does all this data make you read genny?

@genny what made you choose to vote me, when I wasn’t in your POE on Sunday?
 
Melchizedek said:
You mentioned you thought you saw The genny Way™ I had been thinking so too.
I’m going through my notes and the April interactions still seem off but now I’m wondering if genny is the wolf in those. Genny’s POE from earlier that cycle was April, Paws, cray, and zenge so at least two confirmed villagers. How does all this data make you read genny?

@genny what made you choose to vote me, when I wasn’t in your POE on Sunday?
Click to expand...
I noted that she voted for you rather than Paws, who had been in her POE before. Like I mentioned yesterday, she was the first possibility that popped into my head as a paws partner when I was asking Zenge who he thought it was if it wasn't you. I just have a hard time voting there when my gut read says no.
 
JustPaws said:
Haha he is though and I was actually thinking about whether I should flip him towards village for it. Hilarious. I do know he knows though and he has used it against me in the past.
Click to expand...
Can you point it out? I’m slightly worried you only flipped your read on me because you weren’t actually paying attention and wanted to pocket me once I pointed out that you were potentially not picking up on it.
 
WildZoo said:
I noted that she voted for you rather than Paws, who had been in her POE before. Like I mentioned yesterday, she was the first possibility that popped into my head as a paws partner when I was asking Zenge who he thought it was if it wasn't you. I just have a hard time voting there when my gut read says no.
Click to expand...
My thing is, her tone is the only thing I really had village points for and everything else was a whole lot of null. Its D3, tone isn’t good enough for me anymore and the voting outside of her supposed POE combined with no real evidence of wolf-hunting, I’d vote there.
 
Aprilthearab said:
That makes a little more sense. I don't necessarily agree with all of the reasoning, but I appreciate seeing the thoughts

Did you ever answer this? Because I was wondering the same thing when I was re-reading your earlier justifications, especially since the non-logic-following is the only reason you bumped AM down when you made a whole bunch of other points to read AM village and only said Cray sounds more villagey because of meta
Click to expand...
Below is most of the areas that made me second guess AM read.
Animal Midwife said:
I'm not fully certain what I'm doing with my meta currently.
Click to expand...
First, she is changing her meta. So is she intentionally doing the opposite of what she normally does? That would be bad bc most of her posts I am reading as villageAM
Animal Midwife said:
No, but that means I have to look for a third option which will take some time.

I'm aware I'm going be borderline be the only off-wagon voter so it's more me stating this for vanity reasons.
Click to expand...
Weird that she is going for third option. And I don't like her logic on intentionally going off-wagon.
Animal Midwife said:
No one else was claiming to be your mason. So I wasn't up against any fakeclaims.

If someone says something like "I had a kill attempt", it hurts nothing for someone else to say "I know for a fact I/someone had a kill attempt."

Why do you think Zenge rescinded his claim?
Click to expand...
I was lost on this whole thing
Animal Midwife said:
It's in regards to this line.
Click to expand...
This whole series was confusing so I just checked out on what they were talking about.
Animal Midwife said:
Not Zenge, but why would Zenge assume that his attack notification was a red herring? Chaos isn't playing this time.
Click to expand...
Chaos reference didn't make sense until someone later said not doing NK was his famous tactic. I still don't see why she didn't get that zenge could be fabricating the attack notification, hence he wouldn't think it was a red herring since he knew it was made up by him. (obv I was wrong about zenge making up the NK attempt).

Disclaimer: this was in response to April asking for the reason I had AM moved down from most village and placed Cray as most village. As I said earlier, AM was sounding less village, but not wolfy. Cray's actions struck me as very village and not in any way that I would see wolfCray behaving. Finally, AM has always read wolfish to me so having her as most village is a new experience. But as soon as I feel like I can read AM she starts messing with her meta 🙁
 
BobLoblaw78 said:
First, she is changing her meta. So is she intentionally doing the opposite of what she normally does? That would be bad bc most of her posts I am reading as villageAM
Click to expand...
I mean you had access to this information before the game even started. We were in the same wolfchat. Your village read on me came after every quoted post but the last one. So why did things change mere hours ago after everything that went down?
BobLoblaw78 said:
that she is going for third option. And I don't like her logic on intentionally going off-wagon.

I was lost on this whole thing

This whole series was confusing so I just checked out on what they were talking about.

Chaos reference didn't make sense until someone later said not doing NK was his famous tactic. I still don't see why she didn't get that zenge could be fabricating the attack notification, hence he wouldn't think it was a red herring since he knew it was made up by him. (obv I was wrong about zenge making up the NK attempt).
Click to expand...
Where did you get your numbers on abstaining if you weren't referring to Chaos? He's the only player you've seen do that.
BobLoblaw78 said:
Disclaimer: this was in response to April asking for the reason I had AM moved down from most village and placed Cray as most village. As I said earlier, AM was sounding less village, but not wolfy. Cray's actions struck me as very village and not in any way that I would see wolfCray behaving. Finally, AM has always read wolfish to me so having her as most village is a new experience. But as soon as I feel like I can read AM she starts messing with her meta 🙁
Click to expand...
I don't feel like you've ever said you can read me before this game. Have you ever seen wolf!Cray before?
 
BobLoblaw78 said:
First, she is changing her meta. So is she intentionally doing the opposite of what she normally does? That would be bad bc most of her posts I am reading as villageAM
Click to expand...
I thought it was a little weird too, but I don't know what happened in the previous game(s) to trigger the change and it feels like something village!AM is capable of saying mid-game when no wolves have flipped and she's not sure what move to make next. Didn't change my read on her.
BobLoblaw78 said:
Weird that she is going for third option. And I don't like her logic on intentionally going off-wagon.
Click to expand...
What I thought was weird was when she felt like she HAD to choose between the two leading wagons. I'd rather someone vote for their wolfiest read regardless of what the thread thinks, unless there is reason to believe that the person was intentionally avoiding being on a vote that flips or there is a dire reason that the two leading wagons need to be chosen from. Neither were the situation here - I don't think AM was intentionally avoiding the leading wagons. Seems like her vote choice was genuine.
BobLoblaw78 said:
I was lost on this whole thing
Click to expand...
The first line was a reference to a previous game. The second line makes sense, at least to me, regarding when someone would be more inclined to bring up info vs not. The third line still confuses me too, admittedly
BobLoblaw78 said:
Chaos reference didn't make sense until someone later said not doing NK was his famous tactic. I still don't see why she didn't get that zenge could be fabricating the attack notification, hence he wouldn't think it was a red herring since he knew it was made up by him. (obv I was wrong about zenge making up the NK attempt).
Click to expand...
AM is historically partial to Zenge and will sometimes reflect this in what she expects of him. I picked up on it too when she didn't think his D1 vote timing could be wolfy. I'm not sure why, but regardless, it's not specifically a wolf!AM thing. You could make an argument that she was white knighting, but I don't find it convincing when she acts like this regardless of affiliation and she otherwise is reading village


I'd be the first to yeet AM when she starts getting pingy. I get worried when AM is seemingly intentionally irrational in order to really push another player or defend herself. The little things here make me raise an eyebrow but they're not the kind of irritatingly nonsensical things that ping me for wolf!AM
 
Aprilthearab said:
I'd be the first to yeet AM when she starts getting pingy. I get worried when AM is seemingly intentionally irrational in order to really push another player or defend herself. The little things here make me raise an eyebrow but they're not the kind of irritatingly nonsensical things that ping me for wolf!AM
Click to expand...
Can you show me exactly what the little things that make you raise your eyebrows are? What do you think of Paws claiming AM has been misinterpreting things she (Paws) has been saying?
 
Melchizedek said:
Can you show me exactly what the little things that make you raise your eyebrows are? What do you think of Paws claiming AM has been misinterpreting things she (Paws) has been saying?
Click to expand...
Mostly the little things that Bob quoted. Some examples:
Animal Midwife said:
I'm not fully certain what I'm doing with my meta currently.
Click to expand...
Animal Midwife said:
I struggle with voting either you or Mel.
Click to expand...
As if she was being forced to choose between the two
Animal Midwife said:
Why do you think Zenge rescinded his claim?
Click to expand...
When Zenge hadn't rescinded his claim

I remember seeing Paws saying something about AM misinterpreting her but I honestly glossed over that argument because I wasn't in the right mind space to follow it. I think I understood some of the points both of them were trying to make but I'd need to go back and see if AM's statements were directly related to Paws's or if she was twisting
 
Animal Midwife said:
I mean you had access to this information before the game even started. We were in the same wolfchat. Your village read on me came after every quoted post but the last one. So why did things change mere hours ago after everything that went down?
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Why are you saying my village read changed on you bc I thought cray was slightly more village? You are upset that I think you are only 99% village??
Animal Midwife said:
Where did you get your numbers on abstaining if you weren't referring to Chaos? He's the only player you've seen do that.
Click to expand...
I have been on multiple Wolfpacks. And I’m pretty sure we have passed on more than just the one with chaos. I just don’t have the time to go through and look them all up. Why do you assume you know what has happened on all of my wolf games?
Animal Midwife said:
I don't feel like you've ever said you can read me before this game. Have you ever seen wolf!Cray before?
Click to expand...
Yes. When you and Genny wolfed I felt like you were different. Then the same on last game. This game I am doing the opposite of wolf reading you. I don’t get where you are even coming from
 
Aprilthearab said:
I thought it was a little weird too, but I don't know what happened in the previous game(s) to trigger the change and it feels like something village!AM is capable of saying mid-game when no wolves have flipped and she's not sure what move to make next. Didn't change my read on her.

What I thought was weird was when she felt like she HAD to choose between the two leading wagons. I'd rather someone vote for their wolfiest read regardless of what the thread thinks, unless there is reason to believe that the person was intentionally avoiding being on a vote that flips or there is a dire reason that the two leading wagons need to be chosen from. Neither were the situation here - I don't think AM was intentionally avoiding the leading wagons. Seems like her vote choice was genuine.

The first line was a reference to a previous game. The second line makes sense, at least to me, regarding when someone would be more inclined to bring up info vs not. The third line still confuses me too, admittedly

AM is historically partial to Zenge and will sometimes reflect this in what she expects of him. I picked up on it too when she didn't think his D1 vote timing could be wolfy. I'm not sure why, but regardless, it's not specifically a wolf!AM thing. You could make an argument that she was white knighting, but I don't find it convincing when she acts like this regardless of affiliation and she otherwise is reading village


I'd be the first to yeet AM when she starts getting pingy. I get worried when AM is seemingly intentionally irrational in order to really push another player or defend herself. The little things here make me raise an eyebrow but they're not the kind of irritatingly nonsensical things that ping me for wolf!AM
Click to expand...
I appreciate the agreement on some points. But I don’t want to make a case for AM wolf bc I am 99% certain she isn’t. And I don’t want to lose so no way am I voting there.

I just don’t know why the dramatics about not being read as 100% village
 
BobLoblaw78 said:
I appreciate the agreement on some points. But I don’t want to make a case for AM wolf bc I am 99% certain she isn’t. And I don’t want to lose so no way am I voting there.

I just don’t know why the dramatics about not being read as 100% village
Click to expand...
It's not that you lowered your village read on her, it's that you put Cray above her for reasons that (I personally think) aren't as strong, is all. I see where you're coming from but I disagree on the conclusion
 
BobLoblaw78 said:
Why are you saying my village read changed on you bc I thought cray was slightly more village? You are upset that I think you are only 99% village??
Click to expand...
No, I'm confused how Cray could be 100% village when you had just come off saying someone who is the only claim for a N1 no kill night could be lying. If you don't even trust that, I fail to see what Cray could have ever done to get to 100% especially after she just voted someone you claim to believe is a village PR.
BobLoblaw78 said:
I have been on multiple Wolfpacks. And I’m pretty sure we have passed on more than just the one with chaos. I just don’t have the time to go through and look them all up. Why do you assume you know what has happened on all of my wolf games?
Click to expand...
Nope. This never happened. I assume because I was physically present for every one of your wolf games. So I ask again where you got the percentage idea that an intentional kill skip had happened in a non-Chaos context.
 
Last edited:
Melchizedek said:
My thing is, her tone is the only thing I really had village points for and everything else was a whole lot of null. Its D3, tone isn’t good enough for me anymore and the voting outside of her supposed POE combined with no real evidence of wolf-hunting, I’d vote there.
Click to expand...
I don't have a problem with other people voting there. I'm just not there yet. And at the moment I'd rather vote with AM than with Bob.
 
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