Should a D-School with 15.8 AA, 2.85 sGPA average be allowed to continue this?

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Should ADA do something to Meharry's current admission standard/criteria?

  • Yes, the ADA should get involved here

    Votes: 142 48.0%

  • No, Meharry should keep their current admission standard/criteria

    Votes: 154 52.0%
  • Total voters
    296
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LaLaLander said:
I remember commenting on a thread when user SHC 1984 was trying to rip apart Hispanics and Blacks, like she usually does. Her comments are actually horrible, being that she seems to lack the ability to form different perspectives without being in those situations, herself. At least she lacks that ability for this topic. She, unfortionately, has a belief that the Asian race is innately academically superior than any other race because they tend to have higher gpa and standardized test scores than any other racial groups. Her reasons for Asians performing higher in GPA and on standardized tests is simply because they are more motivated and they actually pick up a book, and study. She is the same person who believes that students from ivy league schools are far superior to almost any student anywhere else.

If she's not superficial and extremely ignorant, then I don't know who is. I have an interesting perspective that could enlighten you, if you're willing to learn, of course. OH, and she'll be attending Columbia next school year; for all of you people who have the lovely opportunity of being her classmate.😀😎🙄

It's nice to see that a lot of you have demonstrated a superb ability to learn science, and apply it. I just hope you all will apply that same ability to learn complex concepts in all aspects of life.
Click to expand...

She's not ignorant. She appears to be quite smart and has made valid points, and there's support for her claims. However, she is definately an extremist. Many people'll have problems accepting any extreme idea.

A person may be brilliant. And it's okay for a person to claim that another is brilliant, but it's less acceptable for that person to claim that he himself is brilliant. Regardless of whether it's true, an Asian would not be wise in claiming that Asians as a race are the smartest. It's also frowned upon to claim another group of people as lesser in any way.
 
I am an honest person. It's that simple. I am not even giving my "opinion" here about affirmative action. I am basically stating what affirmative action is doing. I am stating a FACT. And if what I am saying is completely false as you believe then there would not be anyone on this thread agreeing with me...and there would not be 47% votes on my side...

Oh and since you think are the smartest, you can start by educating me by telling me what unfortionately means...:laugh:







LaLaLander said:
I remember commenting on a thread when user SHC 1984 was trying to rip apart Hispanics and Blacks, like she usually does. Her comments are actually horrible, being that she seems to lack the ability to form different perspectives without being in those situations, herself. At least she lacks that ability for this topic. She, unfortionately, has a belief that the Asian race is innately academically superior than any other race because they tend to have higher gpa and standardized test scores than any other racial groups. Her reasons for Asians performing higher in GPA and on standardized tests is simply because they are more motivated and they actually pick up a book, and study. She is the same person who believes that students from ivy league schools are far superior to almost any student anywhere else.

If she's not superficial and extremely ignorant, then I don't know who is. I have an interesting perspective that could enlighten you, if you're willing to learn, of course. OH, and she'll be attending Columbia next school year; for all of you people who have the lovely opportunity of being her classmate.😀😎🙄

It's nice to see that a lot of you have demonstrated a superb ability to learn science, and apply it. I just hope you all will apply that same ability to learn complex concepts in all aspects of life.
Click to expand...
 
UCSF2012 said:
She's not ignorant. She appears to be quite smart and has made valid points, and there's support for her claims. However, she is definately an extremist. Many people'll have problems accepting any extreme idea.

A person may be brilliant. And it's okay for a person to claim that another is brilliant, but it's less acceptable for that person to claim that he himself is brilliant. Regardless of whether it's true, an Asian would not be wise in claiming that Asians as a race are the smartest. It's also frowned upon to claim another group of people as lesser in any way.
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Thanks, again I am a very honest person, just stating FACTS, not opinions here...if someone is offended by "facts" then I guess I am sorry 😕


Why aren't your stats on predent.com?
 
i think i agree with Lalalander. SHC1984 viewpoints are very hardlined even fascist.
 
UCSF2012 said:
Have you looked under.....UCSF?
Click to expand...

Nice! I see it now! 2/2/2! Congrats.:laugh:

Looks like you are tied with Whit and Shunwei! 👍

Didn't even bother applying to your state school I see....must have been hard choosing btw UCSF, Harvard and Columbia. 😉
 
SHC1984 said:
Nice! I see it now! 2/2/2! Congrats.:laugh:

Looks like you are tied with Whit and Shunwei! 👍

Didn't even bother applying to your state school I see....must have been hard choosing btw UCSF, Harvard and Columbia. 😉
Click to expand...

Not really. My brother'll be doing his medical residency at UCSF.
 
UCSF2012 said:
She's not ignorant. She appears to be quite smart and has made valid points, and there's support for her claims. However, she is definately an extremist. Many people'll have problems accepting any extreme idea.

A person may be brilliant. And it's okay for a person to claim that another is brilliant, but it's less acceptable for that person to claim that he himself is brilliant. Regardless of whether it's true, an Asian would not be wise in claiming that Asians as a race are the smartest. It's also frowned upon to claim another group of people as lesser in any way.
Click to expand...


I mean that SHC 1984 is ignorant with respect to this topic, and I have recognized that she has already demonstrated a decent ability to learn science, implying that she's "smart". But we're all at least somewhat smart here; she's just a statistic. "Smart" people are wrong too... Being an extremist doesn't automatically make you wrong, but it doesn't make you right either. Extremists can be wrong too... In other words, that argument doesn't mean much to me. I'm not very biased against atypical views in our society, but I want the truth, and I'm actually VERY open minded. I stand alone, with no basic racial groupie identity whatsoever, so the group argument also doesn't apply to me, true or not true...but I understand your point. In other words, if Asians were innately academically superior to non Asians, then it would be fine with me, but it's a little hard to believe that argument, considering that much of the Asian culture revolves around academics, especially when comparing it to other cultures in the USA. It's like the Asian culture is taking advantage of the bad education system that our country has. Well, good for the Asian culture, but a lot of us know just how easy it is to do well in school and score high on the DAT when you have solid support. Well, I'm willing to listen here; so what were her claims that have decent support? I wasn't able to see any of them. Sorry if I don't come across very diplomatic on this issue, but I don't think SHC 1984 has been diplomatic either.
 
This thread is quickly heading to our own version of the Obama vs Hillary mudslinging. :corny:
 
LaLaLander said:
I mean that SHC 1984 is ignorant with respect to this topic, and I have recognized that she has already demonstrated a decent ability to learn science, implying that she's "smart". But we're all at least somewhat smart here; she's just a statistic. "Smart" people are wrong too... Being an extremist doesn't automatically make you wrong, but it doesn't make you right either. Extremists can be wrong too... In other words, that argument doesn't mean much to me. I'm not very biased against atypical views in our society, but I want the truth, and I'm actually VERY open minded. I stand alone, with no basic racial groupie identity whatsoever, so the group argument also doesn't apply to me, true or not true...but I understand your point. In other words, if Asians were innately academically superior to non Asians, then it would be fine with me, but it's a little hard to believe that argument, considering that much of the Asian culture revolves around academics, especially when comparing it to other cultures in the USA. It's like the Asian culture is taking advantage of the bad education system that our country has. Well, good for the Asian culture, but a lot of us know just how easy it is to do well in school and score high on the DAT when you have solid support. Well, I'm willing to listen here; so what were her claims that have decent support? I wasn't able to see any of them. Sorry if I don't come across very diplomatic on this issue, but I don't think SHC 1984 has been diplomatic either.
Click to expand...

The word 'ignorant' gets thrown around often, but unfortunately it's used improperly. Many times, people'll bash an argument they don't like and call it ignorant, completely unaware of what that term really means. Her claims are not ignorant. They are possibly unpopular and racist. But they are very well-informed.
 
This is a Battle of... Those who live by excuses V.S. REALITY.
 
LaLaLander said:
I mean that SHC 1984 is ignorant with respect to this topic, and I have recognized that she has already demonstrated a decent ability to learn science, implying that she's "smart". But we're all at least somewhat smart here; she's just a statistic. "Smart" people are wrong too... Being an extremist doesn't automatically make you wrong, but it doesn't make you right either. Extremists can be wrong too... In other words, that argument doesn't mean much to me. I'm not very biased against atypical views in our society, but I want the truth, and I'm actually VERY open minded. I stand alone, with no basic racial groupie identity whatsoever, so the group argument also doesn't apply to me, true or not true...but I understand your point. In other words, if Asians were innately academically superior to non Asians, then it would be fine with me, but it's a little hard to believe that argument, considering that much of the Asian culture revolves around academics, especially when comparing it to other cultures in the USA. It's like the Asian culture is taking advantage of the bad education system that our country has. Well, good for the Asian culture, but a lot of us know just how easy it is to do well in school and score high on the DAT when you have solid support. Well, I'm willing to listen here; so what were her claims that have decent support? I wasn't able to see any of them. Sorry if I don't come across very diplomatic on this issue, but I don't think SHC 1984 has been diplomatic either.
Click to expand...

Despite not receiving as much special consideration, many Asians do go on to achieve higher education, despite being a minority. Whether it's innate or a heavily reinforced part of family values is irrelevant. It all starts with home values, regardless of innate talent. To suggest Asians are taking advantage of a bad school system is equivalent to saying that African Americans are not taking advantage of a bad school system, and need a prop to help them. Is either true ? Probably on some level, and it all starts at home.

I don't think of a black adolescent with unrealized potential as any more of a tragedy than a white adolescent with unrealized potential. Both are equivalent, regrettable instances. That's why I don't support Affirmative Action. It's there and I accept it is, but I will never support it.
 
Montserrat said:
Despite not receiving as much special consideration, many Asians do go on to achieve higher education, despite being a minority. Whether it's innate or a heavily reinforced part of family values is irrelevant. It all starts with home values, regardless of innate talent. To suggest Asians are taking advantage of a bad school system is equivalent to saying that African Americans are not taking advantage of a bad school system, and need a prop to help them. Is either true ? Probably on some level, and it all starts at home.

I don't think of a black adolescent with unrealized potential as any more of a tragedy than a white adolescent with unrealized potential. Both are equivalent, regrettable instances. That's why I don't support Affirmative Action. It's there and I accept it is, but I will never support it.
Click to expand...

I actually like how you think; not bad. But keep in mind that the black community was torn apart from the start, and the healing of their community didn't start until recently. I think It's going to take them a while to recover, still, but hopefully not much longer. There were many black families that would be much better off if the system didn't actually deny them in the first place; and this wasn't too long ago. My problem with affirmative action is the same as yours, it's that it's still racist (because it involves a decision based on race), but I still support it, especially since many black Americans were denied equal opportunity for several, several generations, until recently. This country still has low expectations for blacks, but just like we've seen happen in other careers, those low expectations aren't indelible. I restated some of SHC 1984's ideas simply because she was implying a strict sense of race superiority. I thought she completely missed the concept. And I am a realist...
 
anybody know what the stats were for the ethnic backgrounds of people that got in for 07? 06?
 
Meharry accepts lower than average academic scores...
 
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ssik said:
1 + 1 = 2

Meharry accepts lower than average academic scores + Meharry accepts mostly African Americans = African Americans have lower than average academic scores...

If the United States is a country of fairness and equality... How come some African Americans don't have to try as hard in school and on the DAT? Or ARE they trying but are just not capable of performing any better?
Click to expand...

How about this for an equation:

[Underserved, minority-dominated neighborhoods need dentists] - [Non-minority dentists too busy raking in cash in middle to upper class neighborhoods to care] = Many people without affordable dental care

It saddens me to see that so many here are so myopic and self-absorbed that you forget why the profession of dentistry exists: To provide a valuable service to the community.

Does the average black student get worse grades than the average white/asian student? Yes. Is a black applicant more likely to be accpeted to Meharry than a white or asian applicant? Yes. Is that any reason for you to isult Meharry as a school? Hell f'n NO. Meharry simply understands that in order to meet the demand for affordable and adequate dental care present in so many minority-dominated neighborhoods, they have to train minority dentists that will be willing to serve there. Meharry denies whites because upon getting a DDS a white dentist is not likely to go on to serve a minority community. They will likely serve an equally white area probably already saturated with other DDS's.

Meanwhile, in poor neighborhoods, John Q Minority is off to get his root canal done by an unlicensed, foreign dentist in an illegally operated and unsterile clinic. Good luck, man!

As someone said earlier... "don't hate the player, hate the game" And as someone else said earlier... The school must adhere to the same ADA qualifications as other schools in order to be accredited. Similarly, the dental students from Meharry have to take the same exact boards as you other fancy pants people do. If they don't pass, then they don't practice and the school loses money. It is therefore in the best interest of the school to accept only those it deems to be capable, despite their academic record.
 
I just figured some of the posters in this thread would appreciate a link to another forum where they can argue their points of view in an environment considerably more friendly to their criticisms of Meharry and Howard 😉.
this is a joke don't freak out

http://www.stormfront.org
 
AndyK said:
How about this for an equation:

[Underserved, minority-dominated neighborhoods need dentists] - [Non-minority dentists too busy raking in cash in middle to upper class neighborhoods to care] = Many people without affordable dental care

It saddens me to see that so many here are so myopic and self-absorbed that you forget why the profession of dentistry exists: To provide a valuable service to the community.

Does the average black student get worse grades than the average white/asian student? Yes. Is a black applicant more likely to be accpeted to Meharry than a white or asian applicant? Yes. Is that any reason for you to isult Meharry as a school? Hell f'n NO. Meharry simply understands that in order to meet the demand for affordable and adequate dental care present in so many minority-dominated neighborhoods, they have to train minority dentists that will be willing to serve there. Meharry denies whites because upon getting a DDS a white dentist is not likely to go on to serve a minority community. They will likely serve an equally white area probably already saturated with other DDS's.

Meanwhile, in poor neighborhoods, John Q Minority is off to get his root canal done by an unlicensed, foreign dentist in an illegally operated and unsterile clinic. Good luck, man!

As someone said earlier... "don't hate the player, hate the game" And as someone else said earlier... The school must adhere to the same ADA qualifications as other schools in order to be accredited. Similarly, the dental students from Meharry have to take the same exact boards as you other fancy pants people do. If they don't pass, then they don't practice and the school loses money. It is therefore in the best interest of the school to accept only those it deems to be capable, despite their academic record.
Click to expand...

I just read this whole thread. You're right on the money.
 
armorshell said:
I just figured some of the posters in this thread would appreciate a link to another forum where they can argue their points of view in an environment considerably more friendly to their criticisms of Meharry and Howard 😉.
this is a joke don't freak out

http://www.stormfront.org
Click to expand...


You are freaking hilarious!!!!!

Here's my opinion...who gives a **** what color you skin is?

This is what matters:

Patient: "Are you a licensed dentist?"
Dentist: "Yes I am."

End of story..................
 
I know this is old but I absolutely love it. Meharry is my top choice.
 
Just barely over 200 responses over 7 months should give you a clue.
 
Whoever started this thread is very ignorant. I would suggest that person make a search for the average GPA and DAT of students admitted to D-schools in the 1980s. If the averages are 3.0 and 16, are these practicing dentists now are less qualified than the newly graduates? Get over yourself!!! You are setting yourself for failure if you think high GPA and high DAT alone will be what make someone a good dentist.
 
The world is being taken over by Indians and Asians, so all of this is irrelevant. 🙂
 
I feel that it is improper to reward one group of people for their failures and punish another for their successes. Being Indian, I understand the American struggle. The ghettos of America are no comparison to the average middle class in India. We moved from india to ****ty Bronx, NY...and thought WOW. We get picked on in the school and workplace for our accents. Get strip searched at airports. but because of our strong work ethic...we succeed. I find it hilarious that in a period of 20-30 yrs Indians have taken over the healthcare industry...but yet we get none of the rights other minorities get. we've lived in the same ghettos. and after 9/11, the racism we see is far worse than ur average minority (well except for Arabs)...nonetheless we are successful...I find schools like Meharry to be ridiculous. It should truly be equal opportunity. But they choose only to accept black people....isn't that racism in a way????? ur rewarding those who underachieved.....
 
Popat Lal said:
I feel that it is improper to reward one group of people for their failures and punish another for their successes. Being Indian, I understand the American struggle. The ghettos of America are no comparison to the average middle class in India. We moved from india to ****ty Bronx, NY...and thought WOW. We get picked on in the school and workplace for our accents. Get strip searched at airports. but because of our strong work ethic...we succeed. I find it hilarious that in a period of 20-30 yrs Indians have taken over the healthcare industry...but yet we get none of the rights other minorities get. we've lived in the same ghettos. and after 9/11, the racism we see is far worse than ur average minority (well except for Arabs)...nonetheless we are successful...I find schools like Meharry to be ridiculous. It should truly be equal opportunity. But they choose only to accept black people....isn't that racism in a way????? ur rewarding those who underachieved.....
Click to expand...

I understand where you're going, but Meharry is a private institution and you can't call it out for racism. You could easily apply the same logic at LLU which prefers SDA students. Its really not discrimination, even though it may or may not be fair. They (along with other HBCU's) have a mission of advancing, educating and fostering African Americans have been following it for decades. Its a total of 3 dental schools that prefer a certain "type" of applicant, but there are numerous other ones (medical, undergraduate, etc) that function the same way. No one ever said life is fair.

Indians aren't considered URM either, for the reasons that you mention. Although they are minorities, they are not at the gerneral academic disadvantages compared to hispanics or African Americans. Just look at the numbers (percentage wise) of South East Asians and Asian DS applicants compared to URMs compared to other races. You'll see the huge disparity, the entire point of AA is to remove the disparity between the races.
 
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Popat Lal said:
I feel that it is improper to reward one group of people for their failures and punish another for their successes. Being Indian, I understand the American struggle. The ghettos of America are no comparison to the average middle class in India. We moved from india to ****ty Bronx, NY...and thought WOW. We get picked on in the school and workplace for our accents. Get strip searched at airports. but because of our strong work ethic...we succeed. I find it hilarious that in a period of 20-30 yrs Indians have taken over the healthcare industry...but yet we get none of the rights other minorities get. we've lived in the same ghettos. and after 9/11, the racism we see is far worse than ur average minority (well except for Arabs)...nonetheless we are successful...I find schools like Meharry to be ridiculous. It should truly be equal opportunity. But they choose only to accept black people....isn't that racism in a way????? ur rewarding those who underachieved.....
Click to expand...

Technically we aren't really being punished (me being Indian as well). Its all about under representation, like you said Indians have "taken over" the health care industry, so Indians are not really underrepresented. If anything we are overrepresented percentage wise. And hey if you don't like their practices no one ever said you had to go to their school.
 
Rather than voting to close Meharry, why don't Asians and White americans start our own schools 😀
 
SHC1984 said:
Nice! I see it now! 2/2/2! Congrats.:laugh:

Looks like you are tied with Whit and Shunwei! 👍

Didn't even bother applying to your state school I see....must have been hard choosing btw UCSF, Harvard and Columbia. 😉
Click to expand...

In an attempt to bring humor to this long-dead thread, I think it's worth mentioning that SHC has since dropped out of her "IVY LEAGUE" dental school and is now in pharmacy. Maybe, despite her Asian heritage, she wasn't quite cut out for the academic rigors of dentistry.
 
small said:
Maybe what the OP is really getting as is the idea of affirmative action in dental school given that Meharry is a predominately minority institution. He or she might be thinking "what about all the people with higher scores (than the Meharry average) who don't get into dental school because they are white?" It's a fair question, and addressing it and similar concerns about affirmative action in a logical and convincing manner is essential to improving minority education in America.

Meharry provides an opportunity for many intelligent minority students to pursue a career that might otherwise be closed to them due to the inequities and prejudices of the past and present. Pointing to the few African-American men and women who have managed to rise to the "top" under these circumstances as proof that "all you need is a little hard work" to get ahead does not dismiss the reality that many black men and women are at an extreme disadvantage.

Prominent figures in the black community (I'm thinking of Bill Cosby) have focused on the need for change from within, while others focus on bringing about change on the outside. I believe both are correct and necessary, and the 110 historically black colleges and universities in America can help lead the way.

Besides, Meharry is a private institution and should be allowed to set admission criteria however they please. The only thing ADA can do is make sure that accreditation standards are being met, which they obviously are. I am disappointed that nearly half of the poll respondees feel the ADA should somehow force Meharry to change its admission criteria.
Click to expand...

what disadvantage are black students at? As a white male, I'm tired of the assumed racism in this country. Black students can get into undergraduate universities just as easily and same for graduate school. What disadvantage are this schools black students at? Stop assuming our white country is filled with a bunch of racist bigots. If you want to claim the need for this kind of thing in undergraduate admissions to overcome the natural segregation and poor black school thats fine. But that logic doesnt generally extend to college level, meaning the black students at undergraduate received the same educational opportunities as everyone else.

ps - dont call that schools students 'hard working', their stats clearly say they arent.
 
Popat Lal said:
I feel that it is improper to reward one group of people for their failures and punish another for their successes. Being Indian, I understand the American struggle. The ghettos of America are no comparison to the average middle class in India. We moved from india to ****ty Bronx, NY...and thought WOW. We get picked on in the school and workplace for our accents. Get strip searched at airports. but because of our strong work ethic...we succeed. I find it hilarious that in a period of 20-30 yrs Indians have taken over the healthcare industry...but yet we get none of the rights other minorities get. we've lived in the same ghettos. and after 9/11, the racism we see is far worse than ur average minority (well except for Arabs)...nonetheless we are successful...I find schools like Meharry to be ridiculous. It should truly be equal opportunity. But they choose only to accept black people....isn't that racism in a way????? ur rewarding those who underachieved.....
Click to expand...

Exactly...

On another note I fail to see how having black folk go to different schools than other races promotes diversity. Segregating people due to race should be a thing of the past.
These schools are supposed to train dentists that go back to serve the poor communities they came from. That sounds great but I fail to see how this promotes the integration of blacks into non-black communities.
Multiculturalism is about everyone living together and not separated.
 
demayette said:
Whoever started this thread is very ignorant. I would suggest that person make a search for the average GPA and DAT of students admitted to D-schools in the 1980s. If the averages are 3.0 and 16, are these practicing dentists now are less qualified than the newly graduates? Get over yourself!!! You are setting yourself for failure if you think high GPA and high DAT alone will be what make someone a good dentist.
Click to expand...

If these schools are supposedly looking beyond mere grades and DAT scores why do they only look at minority students? I'm sure there are many White or Asian students with subpar GPAs who would make great dentists.
 
armorshell said:
I just figured some of the posters in this thread would appreciate a link to another forum where they can argue their points of view in an environment considerably more friendly to their criticisms of Meharry and Howard 😉.
this is a joke don't freak out

http://www.stormfront.org
Click to expand...

That's great. People disagreeing with you on a somewhat racially charged topic must be nazis.
Why discuss and use arguments when you can just call people nazis? :idea:
 
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