Should a PharmD be addressed as "Dr."?

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ChicagoPillBox

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This is just a random question I had, which is actually what originally brought me to this forum. I've noticed that some PharmD's get addressed as "Dr" although, until recently I never really gave much thought as to how I would be addressed by my colleagues once I finish school.

I personally think the "Dr" title is appropriate in a clinical or academic setting, however I think it would be ridiculous for a PharmD to go out in public and introduce him/herself as "Dr. So-and-So", since the general public associates "Dr" with MDs only.

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ChicagoPillBox said:
This is just a random question I had, which is actually what originally brought me to this forum. I've noticed that some PharmD's get addressed as "Dr" although, until recently I never really gave much thought as to how I would be addressed by my colleagues once I finish school.

I personally think the "Dr" title is appropriate in a clinical or academic setting, however I think it would be ridiculous for a PharmD to go out in public and introduce him/herself as "Dr. So-and-So", since the general public associates "Dr" with MDs only.


You should look in the main pharmacy forum, as this subject has been beaten to death.

"Dr. alwaystired" :laugh:
 
ChicagoPillBox said:
I personally think the "Dr" title is appropriate in a clinical or academic setting, however I think it would be ridiculous for a PharmD to go out in public and introduce him/herself as "Dr. So-and-So", since the general public associates "Dr" with MDs only.

Why would an MD introduce themself as a Dr. in any place other than academic or clinical setting?
 
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yeah do a search

we have sufficiently killed this topic more than once
 
insipid1979 said:
Why would an MD introduce themself as a Dr. in any place other than academic or clinical setting?

I was thinking the same thing when I read the post. Professional titles should only be used while working anyway.

To the OP: If you end up doing a residency and work in a clinical/research setting as a PharmD you may very well be called Dr. ChicagoPillBox (and I think you should). I will agree with you that I think it's unlikely that people will refer to you as Dr. so-and-so if you're working in a community pharmacy setting though.
 
ChicagoPillBox said:
This is just a random question I had, which is actually what originally brought me to this forum. I've noticed that some PharmD's get addressed as "Dr" although, until recently I never really gave much thought as to how I would be addressed by my colleagues once I finish school.

I personally think the "Dr" title is appropriate in a clinical or academic setting, however I think it would be ridiculous for a PharmD to go out in public and introduce him/herself as "Dr. So-and-So", since the general public associates "Dr" with MDs only.

Hey, you're just as much of a doctor as me (an MD) and you're definitely just as much of a doctor as any DDS, DPM, DVM, EdD, or even worse...optometrist or chiropractor. You can bet your life that most, if not all, ODs and DCs, insist on being called "doctor". My girlfriend is a PharmD and she gets addressed at "doctor" by various people at her hospital, but prefers being called Nicole. I think it's a personal preference and depends on the situation. If you're working in retail, I don't think it would be easy to do, but in a clinical or academic setting, sure, why not?

You deserve recognition! 🙂
 
insipid1979 said:
Why would an MD introduce themself as a Dr. in any place other than academic or clinical setting?

I sure don't, but many (often older males) think the title is grafted onto their psyche. Realistically, outside of work settings, no one should really use it; it's...unseemly and pompous, IMO.
 
ProZackMI said:
Hey, you're just as much of a doctor as me (an MD) and you're definitely just as much of a doctor as any DDS, DPM, DVM, EdD, or even worse...optometrist or chiropractor. You can bet your life that most, if not all, ODs and DCs, insist on being called "doctor". My girlfriend is a PharmD and she gets addressed at "doctor" by various people at her hospital, but prefers being called Nicole. I think it's a personal preference and depends on the situation. If you're working in retail, I don't think it would be easy to do, but in a clinical or academic setting, sure, why not?

You deserve recognition! 🙂

Why do you say that? Are they looked down on, if so why? They have to go to medical school right? I worked with a MD who said podiatrist aren't "real" doctors. I'm not sure why, b/c they have to go to medical school, too. 😕
 
highlyfavored said:
Why do you say that? Are they looked down on, if so why? They have to go to medical school right? I worked with a MD who said podiatrist aren't "real" doctors. I'm not sure why, b/c they have to go to medical school, too. 😕

I assume he said that because chiropractors scam people out of money. It isn't a legitamate practice. Subluxations do not exist. It is a shame that so many people fall for it, and for some it has been deadly.
http://www.canoe.ca/ChiroYork/lana_lewis.html

Why he said that about optometrists I have no idea.
 
insipid1979 said:
Why would an MD introduce themself as a Dr. in any place other than academic or clinical setting?

I have a friend, who has a PhD in Chemistry, who had gone to a neighbor’s house for some sort of neighborhood party. He had never met this neighbor before and the neighbor introduced himself as Dr. "So-and-So”. My friend asked him what kind of doctor he was and he said he had a doctorate in music. The rest of the night my friend was calling him by his first name.
 
ChicagoPillBox said:
This is just a random question I had, which is actually what originally brought me to this forum. I've noticed that some PharmD's get addressed as "Dr" although, until recently I never really gave much thought as to how I would be addressed by my colleagues once I finish school.

I personally think the "Dr" title is appropriate in a clinical or academic setting, however I think it would be ridiculous for a PharmD to go out in public and introduce him/herself as "Dr. So-and-So", since the general public associates "Dr" with MDs only.

Put it this way, as a pharmacist with Pharm D, I find that in hospital you don't refer to other Pharm D's as doctor, just by their first name. In retail, defiently not called doctor. The only time Pharm D's refer to themselves as doctors, is in front of students in an academic setting (like in a pharmacy school), but that's more or less it. For any other purpose like presentations and so forth it's Joe Blow Pharm D. Technically though you are a doctor like a PhD is a doctor, that is kind of a definition of getting a doctorate. However in public's eye really the medical doctor is traditionally a "true" doctor. Therefore, I would only call myself doctor if you have students you are teaching, and if other Pharm D's are doing the same otherwise no.
 
TheChemist said:
I have a friend, who has a PhD in Chemistry, who had gone to a neighbor’s house for some sort of neighborhood party. He had never met this neighbor before and the neighbor introduced himself as Dr. "So-and-So”. My friend asked him what kind of doctor he was and he said he had a doctorate in music. The rest of the night my friend was calling him by his first name.

That is hilarious.

I don't think I would address anyone as a doctor in a social setting like that, unless there was a reason to (like introducing someone to your colleague...when that information might be relevant......or of course if it was my doctor I was speaking to :laugh: ).
 
highlyfavored said:
Why do you say that? Are they looked down on, if so why? They have to go to medical school right? I worked with a MD who said podiatrist aren't "real" doctors. I'm not sure why, b/c they have to go to medical school, too. 😕

No, no, no , no.

Medical school is either allopathic (awards the MD degree) or osteopathic (DO degree). A physician is either an MD or DO. While osteopathic med school admission requirements are generally lower than MD admission standards, the education is about the same.

Optometrists are NOT physicians. They earn an OD degree after completing optometry school (not medical school). Podiatrists earn the DPM degree after completing podiatry schools.

A REAL doctor is anyone who has EARNED a doctorate degree, which could be MD, DO, PharmD, PhD, EdD, JD (yes, lawyers are doctors), ScD, DPH, DVM, etc.

Doctor has become synonymous with physician. So, that MD you worked with actually meant that podiatrists are not real physicians. In the technical sense, he's right, but the state legislature determines who or what is considered a physician. In many states, physician includes any professional who treats and diagnoses any disease or condition in a human patient. Thus, a dentist, optometrist, podiatrist, psychologist, chiropractor, and NP could be considered physicians. Most states reserve the title physician for MDs and DOs, however.
 
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Out of formality....I would call anyone with a doctorate degree a doctor.....unless the person tells you to address them by another name.

I kept calling my clinical pharmacist Dr. So and so because I didn't know him...but others told me that he doesn't like being called that. Others address him by his first name.

My english teacher who has a pHD wants to be called Dr. so and so since he wanted to make use of his doctorate.
 
ProZackMI said:
No, no, no , no.

Medical school is either allopathic (awards the MD degree) or osteopathic (DO degree). A physician is either an MD or DO. While osteopathic med school admission requirements are generally lower than MD admission standards, the education is about the same.

Optometrists are NOT physicians. They earn an OD degree after completing optometry school (not medical school). Podiatrists earn the DPM degree after completing podiatry schools.

A REAL doctor is anyone who has EARNED a doctorate degree, which could be MD, DO, PharmD, PhD, EdD, JD (yes, lawyers are doctors), ScD, DPH, DVM, etc.

Doctor has become synonymous with physician. So, that MD you worked with actually meant that podiatrists are not real physicians. In the technical sense, he's right, but the state legislature determines who or what is considered a physician. In many states, physician includes any professional who treats and diagnoses any disease or condition in a human patient. Thus, a dentist, optometrist, podiatrist, psychologist, chiropractor, and NP could be considered physicians. Most states reserve the title physician for MDs and DOs, however.


OD is Doctor of Optometry degree. So why wouldn't you include them in the "real doctor" list. My sister works at an optometry ( wanting to be an optometrist) and many of them at Shiley eye center are OD and are referred to as Dr. so and so. They diagnoise patients with ocular disease and treat them. So why wouldn't they be considered in the real doctor list?
 
ashin said:
OD is Doctor of Optometry degree. So why wouldn't you include them in the "real doctor" list. My sister works at an optometry ( wanting to be an optometrist) and many of them at Shiley eye center are OD and are referred to as Dr. so and so. They diagnoise patients with ocular disease and treat them. So why wouldn't they be considered in the real doctor list?


I think prozackmi meant to include ODs as well (he did add the "etc." at the end of the list).
 
ChicagoPillBox said:
This is just a random question I had, which is actually what originally brought me to this forum. I've noticed that some PharmD's get addressed as "Dr" although, until recently I never really gave much thought as to how I would be addressed by my colleagues once I finish school.

I personally think the "Dr" title is appropriate in a clinical or academic setting, however I think it would be ridiculous for a PharmD to go out in public and introduce him/herself as "Dr. So-and-So", since the general public associates "Dr" with MDs only.

In an appropriate (e.g. academic) environment, sure. Currently, many (if not most) practicing pharmacists are not PharmDs and thus the title is not usually applied to pharmacists. This may change in the future since eventually, all pharmacists will have PharmDs.

BUT, there is one profession that receives a doctoral degree for which I have NEVER heard any of the graduates referred to as "doctor" and that is lawyers, who, after all, receive the degree of "Juris Doctor" and, at least at UT, are entitled to wear doctoral regalia at graduation.

But who cares, anyway. It's the profession that counts.
 
ashin said:
OD is Doctor of Optometry degree. So why wouldn't you include them in the "real doctor" list. My sister works at an optometry ( wanting to be an optometrist) and many of them at Shiley eye center are OD and are referred to as Dr. so and so. They diagnoise patients with ocular disease and treat them. So why wouldn't they be considered in the real doctor list?

They are. I just consider them to be technicians, however. Personal bias. IMO, they try too hard to be medicalized when it's not necessary. I believe they should be restricted to prescribing corrective/refractive lenses only, not medication. I also don't think they should be diagnosing anything other very general ocular conditions. However, they can do much more now and my opinions means jack squat.
 
CatSpam said:
In an appropriate (e.g. academic) environment, sure. Currently, many (if not most) practicing pharmacists are not PharmDs and thus the title is not usually applied to pharmacists. This may change in the future since eventually, all pharmacists will have PharmDs.

BUT, there is one profession that receives a doctoral degree for which I have NEVER heard any of the graduates referred to as "doctor" and that is lawyers, who, after all, receive the degree of "Juris Doctor" and, at least at UT, are entitled to wear doctoral regalia at graduation.

But who cares, anyway. It's the profession that counts.

Check out my post in this forum about the Juris Doctor degree. JDs wear doctoral regalia at all law school graduations. the JD = Doctor of Jurisprudence is a professional doctoral degree.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=251469&page=5
 
Hey guys, Thanks for the replies. I actually DID do a search, and the thread that came up was one that had been closed......and it was from 3 years ago. I thought some of the opinions were perhaps a little outdated so I started this thread to get some fresh input. Sorry if this topic has been asked a zillion times over! lol
 
insipid1979 said:
I assume he said that because chiropractors scam people out of money. It isn't a legitamate practice. Subluxations do not exist. It is a shame that so many people fall for it, and for some it has been deadly.
http://www.canoe.ca/ChiroYork/lana_lewis.html

Why he said that about optometrists I have no idea.


Im sorry you feel that way about chiropractors. Yes, I think some of them are scams but I went to one after a car accident, suffering from a back that hurt so bad I couldnt stand for long, random numbness in my right arm and a portion of my back and severe whiplash. To make a long story short my chiro fixed me. Pain pills would have just masked the problem. I have seen the before and after X-rays and felt the effects to know its not just a scam.
 
Everybody is entitled to their opinion and if you don't want it, then don't read it. How is what Prozack saying misleading? If you have a doctorate degree, then you should be addressed as a doctor. Even if a retail pharmacist (pharm D) wants to be addressed that way, that is in their right to do so because they do have a pharm D. All those that he stated are doctorate degrees so if they want to be addressed as doctor that is their choice. Honestly, I agree with him, including the other post.
 
Sigh
As mama always said, "your beating on a dead horse"
 
Perhaps in the next decade or two, once most of the bachelors of pharmacies are phased out -- retail chains will find it appropriate for their pharmacists to be addressed as Dr. It may provide a higher sense of professionalism and give customers/patients more confidence in pharmacists in general. The majority of people out there aren't even aware that most pharmacists have doctorates. Maybe having "Dr. joeshmoe" on a nametag and being addressed as Dr. will help diminish the fastfood-like depiction that many people have towards pharmacy.
 
ProZackMI said:
No, no, no , no.

Medical school is either allopathic (awards the MD degree) or osteopathic (DO degree). A physician is either an MD or DO. While osteopathic med school admission requirements are generally lower than MD admission standards, the education is about the same.

Optometrists are NOT physicians. They earn an OD degree after completing optometry school (not medical school). Podiatrists earn the DPM degree after completing podiatry schools.

A REAL doctor is anyone who has EARNED a doctorate degree, which could be MD, DO, PharmD, PhD, EdD, JD (yes, lawyers are doctors), ScD, DPH, DVM, etc.

Doctor has become synonymous with physician. So, that MD you worked with actually meant that podiatrists are not real physicians. In the technical sense, he's right, but the state legislature determines who or what is considered a physician. In many states, physician includes any professional who treats and diagnoses any disease or condition in a human patient. Thus, a dentist, optometrist, podiatrist, psychologist, chiropractor, and NP could be considered physicians. Most states reserve the title physician for MDs and DOs, however.

Thanks for clearing this up for me. 😳 I never really thought about it before. I do call my optometrist "Dr. Sanders", and so does all of the office staff. I've never called a pharmacist Dr. So and So. I think they should be call that, but I've never seen it done. 😕
 
ethyl said:
Perhaps in the next decade or two, once most of the bachelors of pharmacies are phased out -- retail chains will find it appropriate for their pharmacists to be addressed as Dr. It may provide a higher sense of professionalism and give customers/patients more confidence in pharmacists in general. The majority of people out ther Maybe having "Dr. joeshmoe" on a nametag and being addressed as Dr. will help diminish the fastfood-like depiction that many people have towards pharmacy.



That sounds like a good idea. I went to walgreens and a PharmD checked me out. On the receipt it said "I'm Dr. Jones. Thank you for allowing me to serve you today." One of the techs checked me out before and the receipt printed her first name in the sentence above. Of course I noticed this b/c I'm interested in pharmacy, but I bet most ppl don't give it a second thought if they even read that part of the receipt at all. 🙄
 
Doctor is too passé. I'm going to get a MPH and make everyone call me Master Frazier. That sounds way cooler. Actually, now that I think about it, my rambling brings me to another question. You know in those old kung fu flicks where the leader of some clan is called Master such-and-such? Can you get a master's degree in ass kicking or is that just a Hollywood fabrication?
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Doctor is too passé. I'm going to get a MPH and make everyone call me Master Frazier. That sounds way cooler. Actually, now that I think about it, my rambling brings me to another question. You know in those old kung fu flicks where the leader of some clan is called Master such-and-such? Can you get a master's degree in ass kicking or is that just a Hollywood fabrication?

I'm sure you can get a master's degree in something like that...maybe "conflict and dispute resolution"? 😳

Back in the day, the way it worked was...a young male, who was unmarried, attended University to study in a discipline; he was a bachelor (hence our term for unmarried males) working toward his baccalaureate degree. If he wanted to master a body of knowledge, he could stay an additional year or so and earn a master's degree (Magister). Once you attained the academic rank of Master, you could teach in your discipline (Doctor = teacher). A Doctor was a teacher. You also could profess your knowledge to others, which of course, would make you a "professor" of knowledge -- one who professes.

The body of knowledge taught by a "doctor" was his doctrine. The only true doctors in Western history were academics and clergy. Most doctorate degrees were in Civil or Canon Law (JCD), Theology (ThD), Philosophy (PhD), or Divinity (DD). Physicians were uneducated self-taught barber-surgeons. Pharmacists, however, were usually educated at the universites and were known as Apothecaries or Chemists. An Apothecary was usually schooled in the sciences as well as the arts. I don't believe they were called "doctor", however, because they never taught. Only those who taught others were called "Master", "Doctor", or "Professor". Master-Doctor-Professor had essentially the same meaning.

Deans (also known as "Dons") were higher-ranking professors in a university or college faculty. Don and Dean share the same root word (from the Latin "decanus", which was a leader or chief of ten people in a tribe or group). Don was a Latin-based title of respect or power (Don Quixote/Don Juan, mafia "dons", and I believe they exist in France and Portugal as well). Donna was the feminine version. Dean was the English version of Don, but somehow became integrated into academic nomenclature. However, at Oxford University, in the UK, Deans are still referred to as Dons.

I'm not sure when, but at some point, physicians appropriated the title doctor from the academics and clergy. In the UK, US, and France, "doctor" is synonymous with physician. Interestingly enough, in the UK and Commonwealth countries, physicians, dentists, and others of that ilk only possess a bachelor's degree (MBBS = bachelor of med/surgery, BDS = bachelor of dental surgery, etc.), yet have a "courtesy" title of doctor. Surgeons, however, are called "Mr/Ms" due to tradition. So, here in the US, a lawyer holds a true professional doctorate, but is not called "doctor", and in the UK and Commonwealth countries, a physician holds a bachelor's degree, but is called "doctor". Weird, eh?

However, in most other countries, especially the Germanic (Germany, Austria, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, and Holland) and Slavic (Russia, Croatia, Slovakia, Poland, etc.), and some Romance (Italy, Spain, Portugal, Romania, and some Latin American countries) countries, doctor usually denotes one who has a PhD, law degree, or clerical degree (DD, ThD, etc.)

In fact, in some countries, like in Austria and Switzerland, if you have a master's degree, your title is Mag. So-and-so. They differentiate the doctoral title in Europe too. In many places, your title qualifies your degree: (Dr Med, Dr Jur, Dr Eng, Dr Pharm, Dr Vet). So, instead of Dr. Smith, a physician is John Smith, Dr Med or Dr. Med Smith. A lawyer is Dr. Jur. Smith. You get your title with a little extra information that explains what kind of "doctor" you are.

Just some useless trivia! 🙂
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Doctor is too passé. I'm going to get a MPH and make everyone call me Master Frazier. That sounds way cooler. Actually, now that I think about it, my rambling brings me to another question. You know in those old kung fu flicks where the leader of some clan is called Master such-and-such? Can you get a master's degree in ass kicking or is that just a Hollywood fabrication?

I went to grad school with a guy whose last name was Bates. He got his masters my first year. Not even the dean could avoid that joke...
 
bananaface said:
If we contextualize this with the prior comments that this topic is being beaten to death, it gets even punnier.

Why is it I'm suddenly hungry for Go Chicken Go?? Hmmm, I can't quiet place it, maybe it has somethin to do with their "we choke our own chicken" comment. 😕
 
ProZackMI said:
I'm sure you can get a master's degree in something like that...maybe "conflict and dispute resolution"? 😳

Back in the day, the way it worked was...a young male, who was unmarried, attended University to study in a discipline; he was a bachelor (hence our term for unmarried males) working toward his baccalaureate degree. If he wanted to master a body of knowledge, he could stay an additional year or so and earn a master's degree (Magister). Once you attained the academic rank of Master, you could teach in your discipline (Doctor = teacher). A Doctor was a teacher. You also could profess your knowledge to others, which of course, would make you a "professor" of knowledge -- one who professes.

The body of knowledge taught by a "doctor" was his doctrine. The only true doctors in Western history were academics and clergy. Most doctorate degrees were in Civil or Canon Law (JCD), Theology (ThD), Philosophy (PhD), or Divinity (DD). Physicians were uneducated self-taught barber-surgeons. Pharmacists, however, were usually educated at the universites and were known as Apothecaries or Chemists. An Apothecary was usually schooled in the sciences as well as the arts. I don't believe they were called "doctor", however, because they never taught. Only those who taught others were called "Master", "Doctor", or "Professor". Master-Doctor-Professor had essentially the same meaning.

Deans (also known as "Dons") were higher-ranking professors in a university or college faculty. Don and Dean share the same root word (from the Latin "decanus", which was a leader or chief of ten people in a tribe or group). Don was a Latin-based title of respect or power (Don Quixote/Don Juan, mafia "dons", and I believe they exist in France and Portugal as well). Donna was the feminine version. Dean was the English version of Don, but somehow became integrated into academic nomenclature. However, at Oxford University, in the UK, Deans are still referred to as Dons.

I'm not sure when, but at some point, physicians appropriated the title doctor from the academics and clergy. In the UK, US, and France, "doctor" is synonymous with physician. Interestingly enough, in the UK and Commonwealth countries, physicians, dentists, and others of that ilk only possess a bachelor's degree (MBBS = bachelor of med/surgery, BDS = bachelor of dental surgery, etc.), yet have a "courtesy" title of doctor. Surgeons, however, are called "Mr/Ms" due to tradition. So, here in the US, a lawyer holds a true professional doctorate, but is not called "doctor", and in the UK and Commonwealth countries, a physician holds a bachelor's degree, but is called "doctor". Weird, eh?

However, in most other countries, especially the Germanic (Germany, Austria, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, and Holland) and Slavic (Russia, Croatia, Slovakia, Poland, etc.), and some Romance (Italy, Spain, Portugal, Romania, and some Latin American countries) countries, doctor usually denotes one who has a PhD, law degree, or clerical degree (DD, ThD, etc.)

In fact, in some countries, like in Austria and Switzerland, if you have a master's degree, your title is Mag. So-and-so. They differentiate the doctoral title in Europe too. In many places, your title qualifies your degree: (Dr Med, Dr Jur, Dr Eng, Dr Pharm, Dr Vet). So, instead of Dr. Smith, a physician is John Smith, Dr Med or Dr. Med Smith. A lawyer is Dr. Jur. Smith. You get your title with a little extra information that explains what kind of "doctor" you are.

Just some useless trivia! 🙂


Thanks for all the info, but I wanted to point out that pharmacists did not have any formal education in the beginning of pharmacy (they began through apprenticeships and were called "druggists"). At the turn of the 20th century is when Pharmacists needed to go to pharmacy school to be a practicing pharmacist.
 
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