I fail to see why you cannot see any merit in their arguments. The ACPE needs to step up their game and raise the bar as far as matriculating students are concerned. If you skim the PharmCAS school statistics page some of the schools recruit students with a sub 3.0 GPA and a less than 50th percentile PCAT composite. If the standards aren't raised by many of the schools the stratification of schools that happened in law are going to happen in pharmacy. Many of the newer schools will begin to be labeled, correctly, as tier 2 schools. These are the schools that will have tougher times getting rotations for their students, and they will not have the prestige to bring internships to their students. Whether or not we do something now or later will mitigate some of the damage that will be done to students who enter these programs and rack up debt expecting a job in four years because if we don't market forces WILL act on the students who will not be able to distinguish themselves by getting a residency (which will be dependent on the prestige and connections of your school) and that will hurt a lot of incoming students.
This idea that you can walk into a pharmacy school, earn your degree and get a NAPLEX certification as a ticket to wild riches needs to end because soon it won't be true, and it's going to hurt a lot of people.
Again, prob you did not read my arguments in my many posts here as of why we should not require a bachelor degree for pharmacy school admission. You can go back to read. But I could give you some points to reflect on.
First off, not all doctorate degrees are created equal. Oftentimes, many like to compare PharmD or MD degrees to a PhD. In the academic world, doctor of medicine, doctor of dentistry/doctor of dental medicine, doctor of pharmacy, etc are classified as PROFESSIONAL doctor degrees. In general, there is no thesis to defend, no research to do for the thesis for those professional doctor degrees. To obtain the professional degrees here (MD, DDS/DMD, PharmD, etc.), a student has to attend classes, take and pass regular exams and rotations/internships. Just like in undergraduate.
A
doctorate is an
academic degree or
professional degree that, in most countries, qualifies the holder to teach at the university level in the specific field of his or her degree, or to work in a specific profession. While the structure of U.S. doctoral programs is more formal and complex than in some other systems, the research doctorate is not awarded for the preliminary advanced study that leads to doctoral candidacy, but rather for successfully completing and defending the independent research presented in the form of the doctoral dissertation (thesis). Several first-professional degrees use the term “doctor” in their title, such as the Juris Doctor and the US version of the Doctor of Medicine, but these degrees do not universally contain an independent research component or always require a dissertation (thesis) and should not be confused with
Ph.D./D.Phil. degrees or other research doctorates.
[1] In fact, many universities offer Ph.D./D.Phil. followed by a professional doctorate degree or joint Ph.D./D.Phil. with the professional degree (most often Ph.D. work comes sequential to the professional degree): e.g. Ph.D./D.Phil. in law after J.D. or equivalent
[2][3][4][5] in physical therapy after DPT,
[6][7] in pharmacy after DPharm.
[8][9] Often such professional degrees are referred to as entry level doctorate program
[10][11][12] and Ph.D. as post-professional doctorate.
[7]
In some countries, the highest degree in a given field is called a
terminal degree, although this is by no means universal (the term is not in general use in the UK, for example), and practice varies from country to country.
The term
doctorate comes from the
Latin docere, meaning "to teach."
The "licentiate" degree shortened from the full Latin title
licentia docendi, means "teaching licence".
[13]
*Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctorate
This is in contrast to RESEARCH doctor degrees, where the opposite holds true: you have to come up with an original research thesis to research for independently and work under the guidance/advice of a thesis adviser/professor, when done, you then have to defend your thesis in front of a thesis committee with no cutoff point or limit to the questions they can ask you; you will not walk out there and have your (research) doctor degree until they feel you know enough in your field and successfully defend your doctorate thesis. The thesis committee could be comprised of other research doctorates from other schools and disciplines. To compare the admission requirements for PROFESSIONAL doctor programs to those for research doctorate programs is silly, as they are not equivalent.
Many also like to compare the admission requirements for pharmacy schools to those of other professional, esp. medical schools. Let's talk about the requirements for medical school admission. There are many countries in the world, and we can look at just the Western world if we will (England, France, Germany, etc not just the Carribeans like Pharmerjohn thought of when he heard the world "Western world"
), which would consider students for medical school admission right after high school with the only requirement is an entrance exam. For examples,
Admissions
In the United Kingdom students generally begin medical school after secondary education. This contrasts with the US and Canadian (outside
Quebec) systems, where a
bachelor's degree is required for entry to medical school.
Entry to British medical schools is very competitive. Courses last five or six years: two years of pre-clinical training in an academic environment and three years clinical training at a
teaching hospital. Medical schools and teaching hospitals are closely integrated. The course of study is extended to six years if an intercalated degree is taken in a related subject.
*Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_school_in_the_United_Kingdom
France
Main article:
Medical school in France
Medical studies in France are organized as follow:
Right after graduating from High School with a Baccalaureat, any student can register at a university of medicine (there are about 30 of them throughout the country). At the end of first year, an internal ranking examination takes place in each of these universities in order to implement the
numerus clausus. First year consists mainly of theoretical classes such as
biophysics and
biochemistry,
anatomy,
ethics or
histology.
Passing first year is commonly considered as challenging and requires hard and continuous work. Each student can only try twice. For example, the
Université René Descartes welcomes about 2000 students in first year and
only 300 after numerus clausus.
Germany
See also:
List of medical schools in Germany
The
University of Freiburg Faculty of Medicine
In
Germany, admission to medical schools is currently administered jointly by the
Stiftung für Hochschulzulassung (SfH), a centralized federal organization, and the universities themselves.
The most important criterion for admission is the Numerus clausus, the final GPA scored by the applicant on the Abitur (highest secondary school diploma). However, in light of the recent gain in influence of medical schools in regards to applicant selection, additional criteria are being used to select students for admission. These criteria vary among medical faculties and
the final Abitur GPA is always a core indicator and strongly influences admission. Admission remains highly competitive. A very small number of slots per semester are reserved for selected applicants which already hold a university degree (Zweitstudium) and for medical officer candidates (Sanitätsoffizieranwärter).
*Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_school#Germany (there are more countries if you click on that link to view the admission requirements for medical schools in those countries.)
You can see there in England, France, and Germany, gaining entry to or obtaining a seat in their medical schools is extremely competitive even though they do not require a bachelor degree (they only require a high school diploma and an entrance exam, a very difficult one
). They do not seem to have any problem to produce "quality" doctors without a bachelor degree! Because, there is no REAL need of a bachelor degree for the study of medicine or pharmacy or dentistry! Do not tell me now that their medical doctors are not as "rounded" as ours or lack of "life experience" or not as "qualified" as our doctors or do not care for patients or less " humane" as ours! LOL
The bachelor degree requirement, here in this light, is only a barrier to admission for the sake of barrier as it is not needed or relevant to medical, pharmacy, dentistry or other health profession education around the world! In fact, even in the US, many medical schools only require 90 credits from an accredited college or university and a MCAT score for a student's application to be considered for admission. (I know people will say that rarely a person without a bachelor degree can get in medical schools, in reality there are many students without a bachelor degree got accepted to medical schools, e.g. my cousin, but anyhow that is not even the point as a bachelor degree is not OFFICIALLY required for admission by many US medical schools).
Thus I do not see why a bachelor degree would enhance anything in pharmacy admission or relevant to one's pharmacy education. For God's sake, I think we should find a way to standardize the whole admission process to ensure a consistent, just, and fair admission process and standards for all. And we are no where near that now. There is no way to standardize or compare the quality of a bachelor from one discipline to the next, let alone to compare bachelors from different schools which all differs in academic standards. Adding a bachelor degree to the requirement for pharmacy schools only to add more incomparable variables to the equation, and further to make the admission and selection standards and process more complex and difficult. The PCAT and GPA will do the job just fine and even better than a bachelor requirement here! As Dwight already said in his post, adding a bachelor degree requirement for pharmacy school admission is not the solution to solving the saturation problem !! (kudos to him for saying it so well
)
As for the argument that a bachelor degree could add "roundness" or "academic experience", those are such vague and subjective terms with no accurate way to quantify and compare those "roundness"/"academic experience" of one applicants to those of other applicants for admission. The admission decision based on this will be solely the opinions of one school/persons and might differ from the admission decision/opinions from another school/persons. Thus no way it is fair or just.
Not officially requiring a bachelor degree for admission would give the schools and the students many advantages. The schools have more opportunities and flexibility to identify students with great potentials, who will not need the help of a bachelor degree to be "more mature", "more rounded", or "gaining more college experience" to accelerate their professional study and maximize their service lifetime. Time is a limited resource and the professional knowledge and training are already enormous for a person to absorb in their limited lifetime. This also helps students to cut short the time and money spent in schools. Everyone wins here !! Again, as you have already seen, this is the practice of many medical schools around the world, even in the US.
The problem you have pointed out, "stratification", or "saturation" in the words of Pharmerjohn is really one of the consequences of
too many pharmacy schools instead. The accreditation body, ACPE, has allowed and approved too many pharmacy schools. More schools = more seats. And those schools want to fill those seats. That is the culprit that lowers the admission standards for pharmacy schools!
Requiring a bachelor degree will NOT help to improve the quality of pharmacy school admission. Let's say we have a bachelor degree requirement in place as absolute mandatory condition for pharmacy school admission, thus all the pharmacy school applicants now have a bachelor degree. With those many pharmacy schools being already open and MORE schools opening up in the future, sub-par pharmacy school applicants still got accepted with sub-par GPA (e.g. < or = 3.0) and sub-par PCAT score (e.g. < or = 50 percentile) because those schools will have to fill ALL those seats!
I would probably support the requirement of a bachelor degree for pharmacy admission only in the case that the Doctor of Pharmacy Degree now is only awarded upon successfully defending a (independently original research?) thesis judged by a doctorate panel/thesis committee. From my personal knowledge, my father was a medical doctor educated by the French system. (He has retired now). He entered 1st year of medical school WITHOUT a bachelor degree and had to pass an exam administered after the 1st year of medical school to progress on, which was designed to select the best qualified students and squeeze out as many students as possible (vs the entrance exam given before you enter with the British medical school system). Others who failed this exam twice would be kicked out of the medical school.
He even had to come up with a THESIS and work under the guidance and advice of a thesis advisor/professor and successfully defended it in front of a doctorate thesis committee for his MD degree, just like in the case for a research doctorate degree (e.g. PhD). He was as competent and successful in his professional career as a MD as any other US-trained physicians.
I heard that this was the case for the PharmD degree in the past at many pharmacy schools in the US, which awarded the PharmD degree before the degree became the mandatory and standard degree that ALL pharmacy schools offer upon graduation and to practice as pharmacist after 2001 (?). A candidate for the PharmD degree then had to come up with a (original research ?) thesis independently and successfully defend it before a thesis committee in order to receive the degree. The PharmDs, then, would mostly work and function as clinical pharmacists(?) and/or academia. The Bachelor degree of Pharmacy were considered sufficient for one to practice as a pharmacist or even as clinical pharmacist.
The professional doctor degrees of medicine, pharmacy, dentistry, etc. in this light, are more of an extension of a bachelor degree or master degree. Yes the tests are harder, and there are more things to study for. But there is, in general, still no thesis required to research and/or defend for a PharmD or MD or DDS/DMD degree vs the case of research doctorate degree, e.g. PhD degree.
This is like opening up another case of worms here. My mother is a RPh, still practicing now. She graduated pharmacy school with only a bachelor degree in pharmacy. That did not prevent her from being respected by her colleagues, medical doctors, or nurses. That did not prevent her from making mid $100K per annum.
Again I say, the problem you are all worrying about less qualified (subpar GPA and PCAT) candidates got in pharmacy schools then earn (or fail to) pharmacy degree then subsequently pass (or not pass) the NAPLEx, potential troubles about rotation placement and residency, saturation of pharmacist job market, etc. are actually caused by more and more pharmacy schools opening up, thus would cause admission standards for pharmacy schools to drop lower to let in more people to fill the available seats.
The solution is, in my humble opinion, is to petition to pharmacy organization and bodies, which are responsible for pharmacy education such ACPE and AACP, to stop the flood of new schools and tighten the standards for pharmacy school accreditation. That would stop the increasing supply of available seats in pharmacy schools, thus raise the quality of admission and admitted students as the competition is getting tougher.
As of now, I think that the NAPLEX is sufficient to squeeze out weak pharmacy graduates, i.e. once you pass the NAPLEX, you are qualified to practice pharmacy as a pharmacist. But then again, we can raise the bar on the board exam, the NAPLEX, if we need to squeeze out more people. That would be the fairest way to distinguish yourself as the test is standardized and required for every pharmacy graduate who wants to practice as a pharmacist (as opposed to the quality of one's pharmacy education varying from one school to the next. The same could be said about the quality of pharmacy residency).
The bachelor degree requirement is not a solution to those problems or needed or relevant to one's pharmacy education. In addition, schools will admit subpar students anyway if they still have seats to fill even a bachelor degree is required. This requirement is only encouraging those subpar students to sit longer in college and apply and eventually get admitted.
The problems you are all worrying about will not go away with a bachelor degree as requirement for admission unless you are addressing the root of the problems, which is the great and increasing supply of seats for pharmacy school admission, i.e. the problem of more and more school opening up.
Again, I recommend everyone to do more research before forming their arguments for or against this bachelor requirement for pharmacy school admission. As of right now, I am truly and firmly convinced of my position AGAINST the bachelor degree requirement for pharmacy school admission.
*Ask yourself these:
-is a bachelor degree (right now can be in any discipline) relevant to a person's pharmacy education?
-is a bachelor degree's quality uniformed across different disciplines or in comparison of different bachelor degrees (of all kinds) from different schools? How would the quality of a bachelor degree be measured (e.g. against what standards ??) for use in such comparisons?
-how would a bachelor degree be used to compare pharmacy school applicants in a fair and transparent way for everyone?
-what is/are the problem(s) with pharmacy school admission now? what cause(s) problem(s)? what is/are your proposed solution(s) and why?
-what is/are the problem(s) with the pharmacy job market in the future? what cause(s) the problems(s)? what is/are your proposed solution(s) and why?
----
*Note: I found many good ideas and arguments from both sides from this thread below,
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/should-a-bachelors-degree-be-required-in-order-to-apply-to-pharmacy-schools.636914/
