Should I apply to top tier programs?

[cara susanna]

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Hi everyone, you may remember me as the person with extreme post-GRE anxiety due to low scores. I'm hoping to apply to Clinical PhD programs this upcoming fall for entry in 2009.

Well, recently my unofficial advisor (as I call this particular professor) told me that I just don't have the requirements for top tier clinical PhD programs, in terms of GPA, GRE, and research/clinical experience. My GPA is 3.7 general, 3.8 psych. My general GRE is 1000 or so, and I haven't taken the subject yet. If you count my experimental psych class, I have about a year and a half of research experience. I did my own study for my experimental class, am involved in the research lab of one of our dept's clinical psychologists, and am hopefully going to do a study of my own this fall or so. My experimental class study is getting published in our school's academic journal, nothing big, but I am first author. I'm also presenting a poster at a conference this spring, and may be third author on a poster at another this fall. I volunteer at a local center for sexual assault victims, where I co-facilitate a support group for the pre-elementary age group.

I'm not really sure what to do now. At first I decided to shoot more for lower tier because I'm more interested in clinical than research so I don't need a top research schoo, but I looked and most of my dream "perfect fit" schools are top tier. I am wondering if I should apply to maybe two or so just to see what happens, or if I should just shoot for second or lower tier. I am not sure if the GRE is my biggest (only?) true setback or not; I'm planning on retaking it, but I'm not sure if I'll do any better. And I would definitely be fine with being an RA for a few years, but I'm not sure if, a few years down the line, even having a ton of research experience would make up for the bad GRE at a top tier program where the average applicant has 1200-1300.

So, (yet again) any advice would be appreciated. I guess what I'm wondering is, should I just try for a few top-tier programs and see what happens, or not?

 

[wannabePHD]

Hi Cara,

I have a similar GPA (3.8 total, 4.0 psych) and I have 1250 GREs and I still feel like my GRE is a bit low for many programs. I've only had one right out acceptance to a school that is bottom tier and I'm at the top of the waitlist for a few in the middle tier programs. I know this must be heartbreaking to hear, but I would definitely boost your GRE. Unfortunately, despite all your experience, they might just toss out your application before getting to the rest of your credentials. Best of luck!

 

[Ollie123]

I also had a 1250 GRE and it is definitely low for top tier programs. I actually spoke with several of my POIs to ask how to improve my app and they all said my GRE was the main thing holding me back.

That being said, that doesn't mean it will happen to you! Many of these schools have fuzzy lines, where if you have other REALLY strong qualifications, they will pull you back into the interview pool if there is just 1 credential keeping you out. It may be what happened here (since I am now at one of those kinds of programs).

My opinion is that as long as you can afford the application fee, there's no harm in applying. Nothing bad happens if they don't let you in, save for a slightly bruised ego and maybe they'll really like your personal statement or LOR or something and give you an interview anyways. You never know.

Actually, my bigger concern for you applying to these schools would be the fact that your primary interests are clinical. It varies by school obviously, but saying "I want to be a clinician" is the kiss of death at most of the top-tier schools. I imagine a school like Wisconsin would probably reject someone with a 1600 GRE if their application made it look like they wanted to be a clinician😉

 

[cara susanna]

Thanks! I do love research though, so I was really hoping for middle of the road. Or even research-oriented, but would still give me good clinical training. They are rare in the top tier programs, but they do exist. 😀

 

[Ollie123]

That they certainly can (I actually just said that exact thing in another thread) - I'm just saying be careful in how you approach it since it can get your application tossed even before they see the GRE score😉

Anyhow, my vote is go for it. Take time off and maybe give the GREs another go in a year or two if it doesn't pan out, but I don't think you're anywhere near the stage where you should be thinking about "settling" for programs that aren't as good for you.

You have a long ways to go before desperation should set in...a LONG ways to go.

 

[cara susanna]

Thanks, that really makes me feel a lot better! I figure the worst that will happen is an outright rejection.

 

[psychanon]

Your class probably won't count for much (sorry, but everyone takes research classes, and a pub in a school's journal isn't going to have a huge impact, unfortunately). You really need more research experience. Your GPA is fine, but you should really work on raising your GREs (but you know this). You don't have to have a 1500, but 1000 really isn't going to cut it at top programs. If you can get it a little higher--up to 1200 at least, AND get a lot of really good research experience, you may be competitive for some decent programs.

 

[cara susanna]

I know that it won't count for much, but I do have a year of other experience, so hopefully that helps.

Yeah, I'm trying to raise my GRE. Easier said than done, but we'll see. :/

And, yes, I'm not worried about research experience because I can always get an RA job for a few years... but GRE probably won't improve once I reach a certain point. Or maybe I've already reached it. Siiigh.

 

[irish80122]

I am not sure how you will take this, but I wouldn't worry about applying to top-tier programs. Instead, apply to the best matches you can. I had the stats that I was competitive at top-tier programs but I didn't apply to many because they simply didn't have researchers who matched. I am now at what probably would be considered a mid-tier program, but my research match is as good as I could have hoped. In the long-run, I think that will be better than having gone to a big name simply because who I worked with will carry more weight in my field than having gone to a big name school and working under on research that I won't do in the future.

Go to the program which fits you best, don't worry about rankings or tiers. You will be much happier that way and it will help you get established in the research field where you hope to be in the future!

 

[cara susanna]

Like I said, I wouldn't care either, but my best fit programs are top tier and I'm afraid I don't have the requirements for them.

 

[deleted106747]

Research topics are typically (at least in my experience) spread out among all of the tiers of schools. Are you certain that there aren't potential POIs at other schools?

 

[psy86]

To provide a direct answer to your question: I think that it is unlikely that you would be admitted to top-tier programs with a 1000 GRE.

It's theoretically possible that you could be admitted, and given that, it may still be worth it to you to apply. But if money and time are an object (as they generally are), it may be better to concentrate your efforts on either improving your GRE's or searching for non-top-tier programs that are also a good fit.

 

[amy203]

I think it depends a lot on what your long term goals are. I spent two years after undergrad improving my application. I worked as an RA, took some advanced stats courses, published, and studies for the GRE (I raised my score from a 900 on my first practice test to a 1400 on the actual test - it took two years, but it can be done). I agree with Ollie that you should apply to 1 or 2 "top" programs either way, but if you really have your heart set on a place, you might want to take some time off.

On the other hand, my ultimate goal is to work in academia, so it was extremely important for me to attend a "top tier" school (and, more importantly, work with a top tier advisor). If your ultimate goal is to become a clinician, it may not be worth the sacrifice.

BTW - I think you're going to need to retake your GRE either way, if you want to attend a funded program.

 

[cara susanna]

I'm going to try my hardest to retake it and score better, so we'll see. Thanks for being honest, guys. 😀