Should I bother at all?

[CL21]

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So posted this under another category, but this isn't as much what my chances are, than it is "should I apply at all". I'm beyond worried and stressed. Thanks.

Hey all. I've been a lurker for a while, but I figured I might as well post. My overall GPA is a 3.6 and my sgpa is 3.27. Basically I got really sick, failed a final, and then retook the class again, though the F still counted against me. My MCAT is a 31. Should I even apply MD? I know my sgpa looks terrible. Grade replacement my sgpa is like 3.4, so I know it looks better for DO. But most DO schools have a higher sgpa requirement as well. Advice? Thanks.

 

[mistafab]

Here is a little lesson in life:

If you truly want something, you will find a way to make it happen.

Even addicts with no money find ways to get their vice on a daily, or even hourly basis. Do you want to get to a school? How bad do you want to? You gotta ask yourself if you actually want this. If you do, then yes, you can get in to a school somewhere and yes you should apply. Whether MD or DO doesn't matter at this point. What matters is that you decide for yourself if you should apply at all.

 

[futuremdforme]

Just redo the course. One bad mark doesn't ruin your entire future since it's isolated and you can explain what happened. Even for MD, they will look at the replacement and see that that the F is an isolated incident.

 

[dougy]

Just redo the course. One bad mark doesn't ruin your entire future since it's isolated and you can explain what happened. Even for MD, they will look at the replacement and see that that the F is an isolated incident.

Seems op already retook, thus their grade replacement comment.

OP, what was grade on retake?

 

[LizzyM]

The F may be an isolated incident but the fact remains that you have taken 9 courses and even with grade replacement your average in those classes and other science classes you may have takein is 3.4. You might be ok for a DO program, @Goro would be a better judge of that. You might also be a good candidate for a SMP but you need to understand that you need to do exceptionally well to prove that you can handle medical school or it is game over. Are you wiling to bet the cost of attendance and a year of your life that you can earn grades at the top half of a med school class (half of the people admitted to med school don't accomplish that).

Can you see yourself doing anything else and being satisfied with your life? What draws you to medicine? What alternate careers are there for people with those interests/motivations?

 

[CL21]

Seems op already retook, thus their grade replacement comment.

OP, what was grade on retake?

I received an A on retake.

 

[CL21]

The F may be an isolated incident but the fact remains that you have taken 9 courses and even with grade replacement your average in those classes and other science classes you may have takein is 3.4. You might be ok for a DO program, @Goro would be a better judge of that. You might also be a good candidate for a SMP but you need to understand that you need to do exceptionally well to prove that you can handle medical school or it is game over. Are you wiling to bet the cost of attendance and a year of your life that you can earn grades at the top half of a med school class (half of the people admitted to med school don't accomplish that).

Can you see yourself doing anything else and being satisfied with your life? What draws you to medicine? What alternate careers are there for people with those interests/motivations?

I'm really confused. I had a few people tell me apply to state schools and also gave me a list of other schools to apply to, both MD and DO. But you're saying I may be okay for a DO. Also, i'm willing to do a SMP, but does the 31 MCAT really not count for anything? I mean I know it's not stellar, but you said it's game over unless I do well on the SMP.

 

[CL21]

Here is a little lesson in life:

If you truly want something, you will find a way to make it happen.

Even addicts with no money find ways to get their vice on a daily, or even hourly basis. Do you want to get to a school? How bad do you want to? You gotta ask yourself if you actually want this. If you do, then yes, you can get in to a school somewhere and yes you should apply. Whether MD or DO doesn't matter at this point. What matters is that you decide for yourself if you should apply at all.

That's what i'm trying to do haha. I wanted some advice before I decided for myself.

 

[Goro]

Your best bet will be with DO schools, and your state MD school.

So posted this under another category, but this isn't as much what my chances are, than it is "should I apply at all". I'm beyond worried and stressed. Thanks.

Hey all. I've been a lurker for a while, but I figured I might as well post. My overall GPA is a 3.6 and my sgpa is 3.27. Basically I got really sick, failed a final, and then retook the class again, though the F still counted against me. My MCAT is a 31. Should I even apply MD? I know my sgpa looks terrible. Grade replacement my sgpa is like 3.4, so I know it looks better for DO. But most DO schools have a higher sgpa requirement as well. Advice? Thanks.

 

[LizzyM]

You might have a 50-50 chance if you apply to MD schools now. That's better than average but not great odds and that is not taking into account that your science GPA is significantly poorer than your overall GPA. Basically, you are a B+ science student completing with students who have A- and better science GPAs.

If you do a SMP, you must succeed or any future application will be a very hard sell as you have proven yourself unable to keep up in medical school classes. If you go to medical school, don't do well, and choose --or are asked-- to leave, then the outcome is similar; no other med school is likely to touch you. You don't have to do a SMP but if you choose to do one to demonstrate your ability to do well in science courses, then you must do very well in order to d get into medical school by that route.

There will be the cheerleaders here who will say you can do anything you put your mind to. There will be those who will say they got in on the third or fourth try. But if you spend thousands between now and next year trying to get a slot and end up with nothing, or with a couple of waitlists that will drag out the inevitable, what will your Plan B be? You have done well on a test that required a few months effort and one day of intensity. What has not been demonstrated by your record is the ability to do excellent work on a daily basis for several years and to some adcom members that is very important.

 

[GrapesofRath]

I'll give a couple thoughts here regarding a potential SMP

1) People in general on SDN oversell the "risk" associated with an SMP and the idea "you must do extremely well or no medicine for you".
2) You can take a look at one example of a good SMP program and how many of the 32 people who start out each year get into MD programs. At this program, I believe the average undergrad GPA is about 3.3 and 75% of people who start out at the program end up at US MD schools. Keep in mind these were on average relatively flawed candidates going into the program.
https://med.uc.edu/msinphysiology/alumni/meet-the-class-of-2015
3) Majority who dont get into MD schools from SMPs like this get into DO programs: you really have to tank the program for a DO program(a number of which have average MCAT's in the 25-27 type range) to not touch you. Nobody in position to do an SMP can ask for better than 75% type odds as well. Many competitive candidates wont have 75% based off statistical norms.
4) Your stats are fine for DO programs as is.
5) Now what you have to consider if you are thinking about an SMP:

SMP's are hard, the risks are real, the cost is hefty and there are no guarantees. You're looking at least one more gap year and in a number of cases two. A track record of having at least a semester or two of recent high quality academic work would be something you would want to show yourself more than anybody else you have what it takes to succeed in an SMP. If after giving your best in undergrad you still dont have a great record, well that's a good sign right there an SMP probably is not best for you.

Youll be working relentlessly all year in an SMP for an entire year. The stress will be real. After you do an SMP at an MD school with MD students, youll really be attached to the idea of going MD. You probably wont want to have to hear about DO after a year of working endlessly with MD students at an MD school. But there are no guarantees. As long as you can live with all this though(and you have to think about) an SMP would be a very powerful potential avenue to pursue for you, particularly with the MD vs DO differences being what they are and factors such as the upcoming merger to be considered. Youd be a good SMP candidate. If you get into an established SMP and give it all you have, historical norms suggest you have a good chance of ending up at an MD school.

 

[CL21]

I'll give a couple thoughts here regarding a potential SMP

1) People in general on SDN oversell the "risk" associated with an SMP and the idea "you must do extremely well or no medicine for you".
2) You can take a look at one example of a good SMP program and how many of the 32 people who start out each year get into MD programs. At this program, I believe the average undergrad GPA is about 3.3 and 75% of people who start out at the program end up at US MD schools. Keep in mind these were on average relatively flawed candidates going into the program.
https://med.uc.edu/msinphysiology/alumni/meet-the-class-of-2015
3) Majority who dont get into MD schools from SMPs like this get into DO programs: you really have to tank the program for a DO program(a number of which have average MCAT's in the 25-27 type range) to not touch you. Nobody in position to do an SMP can ask for better than 75% type odds as well. Many competitive candidates wont have 75% based off statistical norms.
4) Your stats are fine for DO programs as is.
5) Now what you have to consider if you are thinking about an SMP:

SMP's are hard, the risks are real, the cost is hefty and there are no guarantees. You're looking at least one more gap year and in a number of cases two. A track record of having at least a semester or two of recent high quality academic work would be something you would want to show yourself more than anybody else you have what it takes to succeed in an SMP. If after giving your best in undergrad you still dont have a great record, well that's a good sign right there an SMP probably is not best for you.

Youll be working relentlessly all year in an SMP for an entire year. The stress will be real. After you do an SMP at an MD school with MD students, youll really be attached to the idea of going MD. You probably wont want to have to hear about DO after a year of working endlessly with MD students at an MD school. But there are no guarantees. As long as you can live with all this though(and you have to think about) an SMP would be a very powerful potential avenue to pursue for you, particularly with the MD vs DO differences being what they are and factors such as the upcoming merger to be considered. Youd be a good SMP candidate. If you get into an established SMP and give it all you have, historical norms suggest you have a good chance of ending up at an MD school.

Thanks for that info. The reason for a years worth of bad grades was a serious illness. I know that I could be competitive for DO right now. Do you think there is any chance I could be comp. for MD right now? I'm in TX so i'm applying to all those state schools probably.

 

[CL21]

Also, i'm planning on finishing my last 8 credits of my science degree this summer. Would a 3.35-3.4 boost my chances even slightly?

 

[CHoge25]

Also, i'm planning on finishing my last 8 credits of my science degree this summer. Would a 3.35-3.4 boost my chances even slightly?

I think there is a difference between a 3.27 and a 3.4 sGPA. One is barely grasping for air while the other, although struggling for air, has it's head somewhat above water (with an upward trend I may add).. but the timing of your application may be thrown off which is important to take into consideration

 

[CL21]

I think there is a difference between a 3.27 and a 3.4 sGPA. One is barely grasping for air while the other, although struggling for air, has it's head somewhat above water (with an upward trend I may add).. but the timing of your application may be thrown off which is important to take into consideration

I would still apply right now, just send in an updated transcript in August

 

[CHoge25]

I would still apply right now, just send in an updated transcript in August

That would not have much on an affect, they will use the AMCAS GPA that is on your primary. Schools will not take updates usually until after an interview (I am not familiar with TX but sure it is similar)

 

[CL21]

That would not have much on an affect, they will use the AMCAS GPA that is on your primary. Schools will not take updates usually until after an interview (I am not familiar with TX but sure it is similar)

I get that...but because I have a decent MCAT, decent cgpa, i'm hoping schools would look at that and take A's in higher level science classes as a plus. I'm applying in Texas so I know I have it a tiny bit easier.

 

[CHoge25]

I get that...but because I have a decent MCAT, decent cgpa, i'm hoping schools would look at that and take A's in higher level science classes as a plus. I'm applying in Texas so I know I have it a tiny bit easier.

Yeah again I am not familiar with TX so I would reach out to the adcoms on here. You also have to take into consideration that you want to apply with strongest app possible, and waiting a year (as long as MCAT doesn't expire) will do that for you.

I am applying this upcoming cycle so take my advice with a grain of salt of course, but I have learned a lot from reading about other people's situation and my own journey. I graduated last year with a 3.35 sGPA and 3.6 cGPA. My MCAT is about a 30, so I knew this is a bad combination with my 3.35 sGPA (although I have a very strong upward trend). I decided to do a post-bacc (I did it through a program, I would probably recommend a DIY for your situation), and it has made me a tremendously more competitive candidate. With a post-bacc around 3.8, my sGPA is now about a 3.5. If you take my last 3 years classes (about 95 credits), my GPA is a 3.8/3.7. I also have gained a lot more research and clinical exp that I did not have. Take it all into consideration and remember it is a marathon, not a sprint! If you have any inclinations or worry it may be better to make sure you are fully prepared.

 

[CL21]

Yeah again I am not familiar with TX so I would reach out to the adcoms on here. You also have to take into consideration that you want to apply with strongest app possible, and waiting a year (as long as MCAT doesn't expire) will do that for you.

I am applying this upcoming cycle so take my advice with a grain of salt of course, but I have learned a lot from reading about other people's situation and my own journey. I graduated last year with a 3.35 sGPA and 3.6 cGPA. My MCAT is about a 30, so I knew this is a bad combination with my 3.35 sGPA (although I have a very strong upward trend). I decided to do a post-bacc (I did it through a program, I would probably recommend a DIY for your situation), and it has made me a tremendously more competitive candidate. With a post-bacc around 3.8, my sGPA is now about a 3.5. If you take my last 3 years classes (about 95 credits), my GPA is a 3.8/3.7. I also have gained a lot more research and clinical exp that I did not have. Take it all into consideration and remember it is a marathon, not a sprint! If you have any inclinations or worry it may be better to make sure you are fully prepared.

That's awesome! Congrats to you. And I am going to apply to a SMP in Texas. I figure I might as well take my chances, apply all throughout TX, and if they don't want me, they don't want me.