Should I & Can I?

[regorius]

I am a 20 year old CS major who graduates with his BS this month from UF.

My first year was on-campus/traditional - this second/last year I was online.

I am a damn good Software Engineer (I don't mean that to sound cocky) but, I had a remote job that paid very well since I was 16. I have quit it to work on a startup of mine. I also do enjoy Software Engineering, but I do have problems with it (just as we all have things we dislike about things), these include:

1. The lack of fulfillment I feel in my work (that what I do doesn't directly help people) - I want to see my impact on people and help them - I do feel that desire in me and is what is driving me here in the first place.
   
2. The sitting in front of a computer for the rest of my life and not seeing anything/one beyond a chair/desk.
3. The sometimes tedious nature of implementing/tracking low level bugs (think parsers/conceptual stuff/back-end projects/low-level code, though I do enjoy challenges -> the above being why I currently prefer work as a Front-end Engineer, but then come back to #1)
4. The income/job security disparity. Ageism is real in CS, We are in a bubble, and Income is definitely higher in medicine.

Note: I could work at Google/FB/Microsoft but will probably start a few startups first before I did so to try and fulfill that part of me that thinks I do have a solid shot of success before I tried to apply to said companies.

The problems I have with Medicine:

1. Dealing with patients who won't listen to what you say & drug seeking behaviour
2. Big-Insurance/Reimbursement chasing
3. I am empathetic but rather direct & talk a lot.
4. The field seems to me (as an outsider) become less fulfilling because of the beuracracy/less time w/ patients, etc.
5. Medicine being far more formulaic/execution of protocol than expected and as a result boring due to the complete lack of critical thinking.
6. Universal Health Care potentially wrecking salaries (Not sure if this will happen?)
7. A fear that I am over idealizing the profession due to status & desiring a critical analysis similar to shows like House MD (which I know isn't reality, but humans do unintentioanlly make irrational associations)

My GPA when I graduate is 2.9 cGPA. This is because I just found out I had ADHD and have never went to/studied for a class nor have I ever much listened to a lecture - I simply read the slides 30 minutes before an exam and what I retained is what I used OR relied on my extensive past knowledge of Software (been programming since 12) due to not being able to focus on jack.

I feel like now that I am finally medicated I might be able to possibly go through the hell of Medical school & memorize things for the first time since I might be able to sit & attempt to memorize for the first time : )

So, here are my questions:

1. Is it possible/what are the realistic chances of me getting into med school (MD or DO) if I do a DIY Post-Bacc at my local state college (Would raise my GPA to 3.05-3.1) and ace the MCAT?
2. Same as above, but instead doing the FAU Post-Bacc? (Would raise my GPA to 3.2) - I would try to do both of the above options slowly/carefully to ensure good grades while I try my hand on my current company, however would take longer. I can do scribing as experience for both of the above, can't see much else to do beyond that for Med School application if I go that route.
3. I am having trouble trying to make this decision and need some assistance making it, as it is starting to get legitimtaly depressing trying to make such a difficult decision at this point in my career. How should I approach this/how can I be more certain in this kind of a decision?
4. Are my concerns unfounded/unrealistic? Am I approaching this wrong
5. How can I be more certain in my decision even after shadowing? I feel that I CAN be HAPPY & SUCCESSFUL in BOTH. I just don't know what makes more sense/is the correct path for me.

Note to above with Post-Bacc:
Since I am working and no longer in college, my only EC would be scribing for a semester-a year + shadowing. I wouldn't have too much more than that since my town isn't galore with oppurtunities and I am busy with my business while I do this.

Opinions?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[jarednogeek]

It seems that you have the pros and cons you need to search within yourself and see what field you really want. Of course it’s possible for you to get into medical school if you do a post bacc Get a good GPA and then do well on the MCAT. I would say that you also need to volunteer with the underserved thoughA couple hours a week isn’t going to kill you. If you do a post back I would recommend focusing on science classes and getting above a 3.8

 

[Goro]

1. Is it possible/what are the realistic chances of me getting into med school (MD or DO) if I do a DIY Post-Bacc at my local state college (Would raise my GPA to 3.05-3.1) and ace the MCAT?

Yes. There are schools that reward reinvention

1. Same as above, but instead doing the FAU Post-Bacc? (Would raise my GPA to 3.2) - I would try to do both of the above options slowly/carefully to ensure good grades while I try my hand on my current company, however would take longer. I can do scribing as experience for both of the above, can't see much else to do beyond that for Med School application if I go that route.

Reinvention part-time, while understandable, makes Adcoms wonder if you can handle med school, which will be far more intensive than your part time school work. I suggest that you get in patient contact experience AND shadowing AND non-clinical volunteering now, so you can really decide if this path is for you.

1. I am having trouble trying to make this decision and need some assistance making it, as it is starting to get legitimtaly depressing trying to make such a difficult decision at this point in my career. How should I approach this/how can I be more certain in this kind of a decision?

Volunteer with patients. NOT scribing...that's too passive. Medicine is a calling.

1. Are my concerns unfounded/unrealistic? Am I approaching this wrong

Yes. Everything you've written above shows that you're merely running away FROM your current career and not TO Medicine. In addition, most of your objections to this career are reasons why you should not pursue it. Your #5 is completely wrong. #6 hasn't happened yet. #7 is definitely influencing you. Doctor shows on TV are works of fiction.

1. How can I be more certain in my decision even after shadowing? I feel that I CAN be HAPPY & SUCCESSFUL in BOTH. I just don't know what makes more sense/is the correct path for me.

See above.


Note to above with Post-Bacc:
Since I am working and no longer in college, my only EC would be scribing for a semester-a year + shadowing. I wouldn't have too much more than that since my town isn't galore with oppurtunities and I am busy with my business while I do this.

You're in a marathon now, not a sprint. Med schools aren't going anywhere.
Read this:

• Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[DoctorSwagger]

Maybe try to shadow a physician and get first hand and experience. Also taking to the doctor about your concerns would probably help.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[regorius]

1. I am having trouble trying to make this decision and need some assistance making it, as it is starting to get legitimtaly depressing trying to make such a difficult decision at this point in my career. How should I approach this/how can I be more certain in this kind of a decision?

Volunteer with patients. NOT scribing...that's too passive. Medicine is a calling.

1. Are my concerns unfounded/unrealistic? Am I approaching this wrong

Yes. Everything you've written above shows that you're merely running away FROM your current career and not TO Medicine. In addition, most of your objections to this career are reasons why you should not pursue it. Your #5 is completely wrong. #6 hasn't happened yet. #7 is definitely influencing you. Doctor shows on TV are works of fiction.

1. How can I be more certain in my decision even after shadowing? I feel that I CAN be HAPPY & SUCCESSFUL in BOTH. I just don't know what makes more sense/is the correct path for me.

See above.

Thank you for the guide.

I will take this as a marathon for sure. I plan to run my business while I take night classes & do weekend volunteering.

As to the volunteering, what is the best/what are some examples? My community/town is rather small and I don't see too many oppurtunities available. Should I save scribing then until the end? Should I not do it?

I also understand that you feel I am running FROM -> Medicine. I would say that I am happy with what I do, I just want more interaction, more people and to fill an emotional hole. However, I am trying to make sure I am not taking a scary leap without careful & VERY deliberate thought. I have always thought of being a doctor, it was the second career I always thought of since I was young after engineering, so not something that whimsically came into head after a TV show, but rather a reminding slap to the gut.

My greatest fear of medicine was alwasy the memorization & #5, but if it's not true then that is a big difference.

 

[Goro]

Thank you for the guide.

I will take this as a marathon for sure. I plan to run my business while I take night classes & do weekend volunteering.

As to the volunteering, what is the best/what are some examples? My community/town is rather small and I don't see too many oppurtunities available. Should I save scribing then until the end? Should I not do it?

I also understand that you feel I am running FROM -> Medicine. I would say that I am happy with what I do, I just want more interaction, more people and to fill an emotional hole. However, I am trying to make sure I am not taking a scary leap without careful & VERY deliberate thought. I have always thought of being a doctor, it was the second career I always thought of since I was young after engineering, so not something that whimsically came into head after a TV show, but rather a reminding slap to the gut.

My greatest fear of medicine was alwasy the memorization & #5, but if it's not true then that is a big difference.

I just want more interaction, more people and to fill an emotional hole.
This is a lousy reason to want to be a doctor, especially the latter.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.


Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities. The key thing is service to others less fortunate than you. And get off campus and out of your comfort zone!

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Meals on Wheels.

 

[regorius]

I just want more interaction, more people and to fill an emotional hole.
This is a lousy reason to want to be a doctor, especially the latter.

When quoted in that manner it sounds quite bad. Perhaps I stated out of context & misspoke. I don't mean talking to more people, that would be bad. I mean seeing my work help people in a more hands-on & immediate impact, being able to see that I helped someone today and they are doing well - not just having built an impassionate device whose benefits are non-concrete. Is that still a bad reason if so, I think I have even more reflection to do : )

Also, in regards to above - is there a systematic way or a framework with which I can guide the decision better?

I now have concrete examples of Non-Clinical Volunteering & I understand what shadowing is. What would be a good "Patient-Contact Experience" - do you mean scribing or is there a better kind?

 

[Goro]

When quoted in that manner it sounds quite bad. Perhaps I stated out of context & misspoke. I don't mean talking to more people, that would be bad. I mean seeing my work help people in a more hands-on & immediate impact, being able to see that I helped someone today and they are doing well - not just having built an impassionate device whose benefits are non-concrete. Is that still a bad reason if so, I think I have even more reflection to do : )

Also, in regards to above - is there a systematic way or a framework with which I can guide the decision better?

I now have concrete examples of Non-Clinical Volunteering & I understand what shadowing is. What would be a good "Patient-Contact Experience" - do you mean scribing or is there a better kind?

Actually doing something for, and interacting with patients. Again, scribing is a passive activity. It's glorified shadowing.

 

[regorius]

Actually doing something for, and interacting with patients. Again, scribing is a passive activity. It's glorified shadowing.

Fair, but what gets me is while Boys & Girls club et all are all clearly "Non-Clinical" - it sounds like you are asking for something clinical with "Patient-Contact" emphasis on Patient. Where could I find/what would be examples of things that interact with Patients as a non-medical school student in a medical setting? That is what I am having trouble with. I feel like most places wouldn't allow any one to volunteer since they are not qualified?

An additional question is what about research? Is that required or can I get away without it?

 

[doc05]

When quoted in that manner it sounds quite bad. Perhaps I stated out of context & misspoke. I don't mean talking to more people, that would be bad. I mean seeing my work help people in a more hands-on & immediate impact, being able to see that I helped someone today and they are doing well - not just having built an impassionate device whose benefits are non-concrete. Is that still a bad reason if so, I think I have even more reflection to do : )

Also, in regards to above - is there a systematic way or a framework with which I can guide the decision better?

I now have concrete examples of Non-Clinical Volunteering & I understand what shadowing is. What would be a good "Patient-Contact Experience" - do you mean scribing or is there a better kind?

It doesn't sound like you really want to go into medicine, but rather are dissatisfied with software engineering. There is little in medicine that allows for a "hands on" or "immediate" impact, and you will likely be dissatisfied with this aspect of things.

I can understand how you don't want to spend your career siting at a desk coding, and if you need more interpersonal interaction, consider that this could set you apart from other software engineers and help you segue into a management role.

 

[regorius]

It doesn't sound like you really want to go into medicine, but rather are dissatisfied with software engineering. There is little in medicine that allows for a "hands on" or "immediate" impact, and you will likely be dissatisfied with this aspect of things.

I can understand how you don't want to spend your career siting at a desk coding, and if you need more interpersonal interaction, consider that this could set you apart from other software engineers and help you segue into a management role.

I assume the only way I could be sure of whether I could truly enjoy it is if I do as Goro said and do all the volunteering & shadowing? If I enjoy that then this is the way to go, if I don't then just segue within my sector?

 

[doc05]

I assume the only way I could be sure of whether I could truly enjoy it is if I do as Goro said and do all the volunteering & shadowing? If I enjoy that then this is the way to go, if I don't then just segue within my sector?

Looking at your original post, your problems with medicine, #1-5 are very real. If the field doesn't match your personality, you will be miserable.

This is not a decision to rush. Your GPA is very low and getting into med school will be a very uphill battle. Sit down with a career counselor. Where are your natural strengths?

 

[regorius]

This is not a decision to rush. Medicine will be a very uphill battle. Sit down with a career counselor. Where are your natural strengths?

I hope you asked literally, sometimes these forums can be a little difficlut to read someone through. However, as far as my specific strengths:

• I can empathize and understand how people think very well - in other words it's very easy to put myself in someone else's shoes.
• I can easily reason with the abstract - Physics & Math were my best subjects.
  
• I can solve big picture problems easily/very well, analyze facts, recognize patterns and can decompose said large problems into smaller parts if it is too large to handle rather than getting overwhelmed.
• Continuing the last point, I am however absolutely horrible at focusing on the minutiae/long term execution of a specific plan once it has been formed. I also don't do very well with repetitive routines that involve little analysis.
  
• I can explain complex topics rather easily and communicate fairly well.
• I don't get emotional about things, but I also can recognize if something is touchy (back to the first point).
• I am extremely pragmatic, raised by a family of business people who constantly dissuaded me from anything not... business (Quite a break in the mold for most people here I presume)

However, what I was trying to ask about in the last post - which I will be more clear here - is whether the experiences I listed in the last post would be the best/most definitive way to decide if this is truly the route for me, or is there a better way to make the decision that you suggest?

 

[Drakozord X]

I hope you asked literally, sometimes these forums can be a little difficlut to read someone through. However, as far as my specific strengths:

• I can empathize and understand how people think very well - in other words it's very easy to put myself in someone else's shoes.
• I can easily reason with the abstract - Physics & Math were my best subjects.
  
• I can solve big picture problems easily/very well, analyze facts, recognize patterns and can decompose said large problems into smaller parts if it is too large to handle rather than getting overwhelmed.
• Continuing the last point, I am however absolutely horrible at focusing on the minutiae/long term execution of a specific plan once it has been formed. I also don't do very well with repetitive routines that involve little analysis.
  
• I can explain complex topics rather easily and communicate fairly well.
• I don't get emotional about things, but I also can recognize if something is touchy (back to the first point).
• I am extremely pragmatic, raised by a family of business people who constantly dissuaded me from anything not... business (Quite a break in the mold for most people here I presume)

However, what I was trying to ask about in the last post - which I will be more clear here - is whether the experiences I listed in the last post would be the best/most definitive way to decide if this is truly the route for me, or is there a better way to make the decision that you suggest?

Volunteer at a hospital is your best bet to making that decision of to be or not to be. While you're volunteering, talk to nurses, physicians, etc to ask about how they're day is like and what it means to be who they are. Try to see if their responses inspire/motivate/ or even make you "tingle" a little on the inside. I'd say to try emergency medicine department for volunteering.

Yes, I said "tingle" because I can't describe the feeling I felt while shadowing a physician and seeing a patient I've helped, smile at me. I mean don't get me wrong, I've done research, teaching, business related jobs, but none of which compared to what I "felt" when I was there in the hospital. After those experiences, I knew

 

[regorius]

Volunteer at a hospital is your best bet to making that decision of to be or not to be. While you're volunteering, talk to nurses, physicians, etc to ask about how they're day is like and what it means to be who they are. Try to see if their responses inspire/motivate/ or even make you "tingle" a little on the inside. I'd say to try emergency medicine department for volunteering.

Yes, I said "tingle" because I can't describe the feeling I felt while shadowing a physician and seeing a patient I've helped, smile at me. I mean don't get me wrong, I've done research, teaching, business related jobs, but none of which compared to what I "felt" when I was there in the hospital. After those experiences, I knew

Thank you, I will have to see if the local hospital will of course let me volunteer in ER, but I will try. Again, Thank you all for the help. It's been good advice.

 

[Goro]

Fair, but what gets me is while Boys & Girls club et all are all clearly "Non-Clinical" - it sounds like you are asking for something clinical with "Patient-Contact" emphasis on Patient. Where could I find/what would be examples of things that interact with Patients as a non-medical school student in a medical setting? That is what I am having trouble with. I feel like most places wouldn't allow any one to volunteer since they are not qualified?

An additional question is what about research? Is that required or can I get away without it?

I gave you examples of both clinical AND non-clinical volunteering. You're going to need both.

 

[HuskyMD Emeritus]

"Continuing the last point, I am however absolutely horrible at focusing on the minutiae/long term execution of a specific plan once it has been formed. I also don't do very well with repetitive routines that involve little analysis."

Regarding this statement: You have to realize focusing on the minutiae and long term execution of treatment plans are vital aspects of being a doctor. Attention to detail helps you not overlook a problem and miss a diagnosis. This is true not just for the pathologists and radiologists.
Long term execution of a plan is key to successful treatment and maintenance of the health of your patients. Think of the treatment of a cancer patient or treatment of chronic diseases such as diabetes, lupus, COPD, inflammatory bowel disease, Parkinsons disease.....the list is too large.
Seeing multiple patients with the same problem is repetitive especially if you are in a subspecialty, but each patient will require analysis of all details even if minor.

 

[Isoval]

I can pretty much guarantee you that #5 is false.

If, for example, all you do is memorize “lung edema = cardiac failure”, you’re going to get somebody with pneumonia killed. Medicine, some specialties more than others, is a big logic game with a long, long series of “if...then...” loops before you eventually arrive at a probable diagnosis, with exceptions the whole way around that it takes a trained eye to spot.

It requires a lot of memorized knowledge...but medicine is the application of that knowledge, not the regurgitation of it. Regurgitate that information if you want to kill people, not help them.

 

[plshelpvanxious]

Have you considered assistive technology and other tech/engineering related field that allow you work to with people one on one? I'm not telling you you shouldn't be a doctor, but sometimes people forget similar types of interactions exist outside of medicine.

 

[doc05]

I hope you asked literally, sometimes these forums can be a little difficlut to read someone through. However, as far as my specific strengths:

• I can empathize and understand how people think very well - in other words it's very easy to put myself in someone else's shoes.
• I can easily reason with the abstract - Physics & Math were my best subjects.
  
• I can solve big picture problems easily/very well, analyze facts, recognize patterns and can decompose said large problems into smaller parts if it is too large to handle rather than getting overwhelmed.
• Continuing the last point, I am however absolutely horrible at focusing on the minutiae/long term execution of a specific plan once it has been formed. I also don't do very well with repetitive routines that involve little analysis.
  
• I can explain complex topics rather easily and communicate fairly well.
• I don't get emotional about things, but I also can recognize if something is touchy (back to the first point).
• I am extremely pragmatic, raised by a family of business people who constantly dissuaded me from anything not... business (Quite a break in the mold for most people here I presume)

However, what I was trying to ask about in the last post - which I will be more clear here - is whether the experiences I listed in the last post would be the best/most definitive way to decide if this is truly the route for me, or is there a better way to make the decision that you suggest?

You sound more like an engineer than a doctor. Do some volunteering and see what you think.

 

[doc05]

I can pretty much guarantee you that #5 is false.

If, for example, all you do is memorize “lung edema = cardiac failure”, you’re going to get somebody with pneumonia killed. Medicine, some specialties more than others, is a big logic game with a long, long series of “if...then...” loops before you eventually arrive at a probable diagnosis, with exceptions the whole way around that it takes a trained eye to spot.

It requires a lot of memorized knowledge...but medicine is the application of that knowledge, not the regurgitation of it. Regurgitate that information if you want to kill people, not help them.

A med student's input is always valuable, if only to a point. Actually, there's very little "critical thinking" in everyday practice. Common problems are common. That's true of my specialty and also the more "cerebral" ones like neurology and nephrology.