Should I consider myself disadvantaged?

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LizzyM said:
Where did you get that figure? It is complete baloney. http://chicagoist.com/2013/06/19/crains_chicago_business_and_how_to.php
Spending is $11,931/pupil in CPS. Of course, much of that goes to administration, not instruction.

That said, I know of CPS grads who have graduated from top undergrad, grad schools and professional schools. The selective enrollment high schools are some of the best in the nation.

If someone feels that there K-12 experience put them at a disadvantage when they arrived in college, they can call themselves "disadvantaged" and explain although, as has been said, if your parents are high SES, then your claim of disadvantage may be discounted.
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What would you say if my family was middle SES like everyone around me, but I put disadvantaged because my school had only one level for classes and my advisers only had me take the SAT?
 
munsil said:
EVIDENTLY you have not read all my posts. What is wrong with you?
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You misunderstand. I read them, there's just nothing in them valid enough to occupy even my small mind. Resorting to calling me stupid pretty clearly signifies the relative validities of our respective arguments thus far
 
efle said:
You misunderstand. I read them, there's just nothing in them valid enough to occupy even my small mind. Resorting to calling me stupid pretty clearly signifies the relative validities of our respective arguments thus far
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Dude, you are getting way too worked up over this.
 
Just to clarify isn't the disadvantaged section only for people with SES? If that is the case isn't this whole argument wasted breath?
 
Master3930 said:
Just to clarify isn't the disadvantaged section only for people with SES? If that is the case isn't this whole argument wasted breath?
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Haha dear God let's not start this again...
 
munsil said:
Haha dear God let's not start this again...
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I am trying to end it, theres a lot of arguing in here for nothing. If you think you should put disadvantaged put it down, if adcoms have an issue with it they will be sure to bring it up in an interview. No point arguing in here and getting people upset
 
LizzyM said:
Where did you get that figure? It is complete baloney. http://chicagoist.com/2013/06/19/crains_chicago_business_and_how_to.php
Spending is $11,931/pupil in CPS. Of course, much of that goes to administration, not instruction.

That said, I know of CPS grads who have graduated from top undergrad, grad schools and professional schools. The selective enrollment high schools are some of the best in the nation.

If someone feels that there K-12 experience put them at a disadvantage when they arrived in college, they can call themselves "disadvantaged" and explain although, as has been said, if your parents are high SES, then your claim of disadvantage may be discounted.
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Outdated, perhaps. The last time I worked with CPS was before 2008 and the primary school that I worked with was a new charter for students displaced from their public school. The charter hardly scraped together 6k per student. Admittedly, the system has improved since then, but most applicants this cycle from CPS will have gone through the system before these improvements were made.

Also, knowing a few CPS grads that went through professional school does not qualify it as the norm. You work in a professional world, so of course your sample is biased. The selective enrollment schools are selective, they are not the norm. The norm in inner-city schools is poor graduation prospects, lack of funding and underqualified instruction.

Regardless, I'm not sure how anyone could argue that inner-city public schools aren't disadvantaged.
 
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Master3930 said:
Just to clarify isn't the disadvantaged section only for people with SES? If that is the case isn't this whole argument wasted breath?
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Also people who feel that they were medically underserved. That could include people who have resources (like owning a big farm or ranch) but who couldn't access a neurosurgeon when one was urgently needed because the nearest specialist of that kind was really far away, even by chopper. That sort of "disadvantage" counts because people who know those areas and are willing to "go back" with the MD are the best hope for alleviating shortage areas.
 
LizzyM said:
Also people who feel that they were medically underserved. That could include people who have resources (like owning a big farm or ranch) but who couldn't access a neurosurgeon when one was urgently needed because the nearest specialist of that kind was really far away, even by chopper. That sort of "disadvantage" counts because people who know those areas and are willing to "go back" with the MD are the best hope for alleviating shortage areas.
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On AMCAS my county is considered medically underserved in my region... My father is a doctor. I live 5 minutes from a hospital. I have no idea where they get their stats, but then again there are a lot of areas in my county that are not as fortunate. Could I have claimed that I felt my county was medically underserved? Sure. Would that be appropriate given my situation, probably not..
 
munsil said:
@efle
The fact that I have to clarify this to you means that NO, YOU DON'T GET IT. I am not exclusively talking about myself at this point, but I'm speaking for rural students in general. Fancy tutors and extra help DID NOT exist where I lived. In my personal experience, my SAT score and my MCAT score are ridiculously disparate, and I can tell you it is because of where I grew up. I can also guarantee you I was not the only person in this situation. And I come from a good family background. I can only imagine what it's like to even have what's considered an average upbringing in that area. You need to get it out of your seemingly small mind that I'm just talking about going to Ivy leagues. Roots in those areas run deep, and even the thought of leaving the immediate towns to go to a public school is a big deal.

Anyway, I have very limited experience on this forum, but I would have to say I'm mildly disturbed that some of you are either planning to join the medical field or are already a part of it. I may be wrong, but I think good social skills and empathy are part of the profession, and I'm getting some seriously bad vibes here.

But I appreciate the genuine advice. Bye.
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munsil said:
Dude, you are getting way too worked up over this.
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Hahaaaah types up a wall of text full of UNNECESSARY CAPS and makes personal attacks, followed by "you're too worked up over this"

absolutely awesome dude. hilarious
 
efle said:
Hahaaaah types up a wall of text full of UNNECESSARY CAPS and makes personal attacks, followed by "you're too worked up over this"

absolutely awesome dude. hilarious
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From the start, your tone has been been pretty rude. I'm not going to respond to this with rainbows and sunshine. I didn't start this thread to to elicit useless and belittling responses. I wanted some actual advice, and I got some (albeit very little). But the fact that you're aggressively seeking and perpetuating confrontation is really weird to me... which is why I think you are getting way too far into this. You really shouldn't care this much about what I do with my life, tbh.
 
To give this thread some purpose, besides $$ and access to medicine, what is considered disadvantaged from an adcom perspective?

If it were only based on those two factors, then AMCAS could just stick with asking household income for years 0-18 (which it does) and maybe residence from years 0-18. This would identify those that lived in areas that were underserved and those that were economically disadvantaged. So what are the other factors that qualify as disadvantaged? Possible examples: poor attendance in school due to X circumstance, a high school with a poor graduation rate? I'm curious (and also trying to move this thread in a more productive direction). @LizzyM
 
R
Tired said:
It's always disappointing when people don't tell you what you want to hear, but that doesn't make it "actual advice". I'd say the one adcom posting on here gave you a pretty thorough answer; you just wish she had something different.
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really? Tell me what my response to her was. What did I conclude from this discussion (specifically whether or not I will claim disadvantaged status)? I mention it, so please reiterate it to me. I think it clearly shows that I got something out of what she said.

I think you're hoping for a particular response from me.
 
My final comment is this, if you have to rely on that one single section on your primary application to get into medical school you have more to worry about than whether or not to put it down. I highly doubt that filling out that one section will be a deciding factor. They look at the whole picture not just whether or not you are disadvantaged. I have ADHD (not terrible, but I do have it) does that mean I'm disadvantaged? absolutely not.
 
rachiie01 said:
To give this thread some purpose, besides $$ and access to medicine, what is considered disadvantaged from an adcom perspective?

If it were only based on those two factors, then AMCAS could just stick with asking household income for years 0-18 (which it does) and maybe residence from years 0-18. This would identify those that lived in areas that were underserved and those that were economically disadvantaged. So what are the other factors that qualify as disadvantaged? Possible examples: poor attendance in school due to X circumstance, a high school with a poor graduation rate? I'm curious (and also trying to move this thread in a more productive direction). @LizzyM
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The graduation rate doesn't matter if you graduated. If you and everyone you know had access to "your dad, the doctor" then you can't really claim that you believe you were in a medically underserved area. But, if you had government benefits but couldn't use them because it was 18 miles to the nearest store that accepted SNAP (food stamps) and 80 miles to the nearest doctor that accepted your family's Medicaid card, then you could say you were disadvantaged.

Bottom line, people: When we talk about URM, everyone bitches about how low SES, not race, should be what gives some people a bump up. Here's the opportunity to self-identify as needing that bump. If you think you need it, check the box and justify it. Just like some people who are judged for how they self-identify racially (http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/09/u...uestions-on-misuse-of-affirmative-action.html) you will be judged if you check the box. If you think you can stand up to that scrutiny, go for it. You've earned it.
 
LizzyM said:
The graduation rate doesn't matter if you graduated. If you and everyone you know had access to "your dad, the doctor" then you can't really claim that you believe you were in a medically underserved area. But, if you had government benefits but couldn't use them because it was 18 miles to the nearest store that accepted SNAP (food stamps) and 80 miles to the nearest doctor that accepted your family's Medicaid card, then you could say you were disadvantaged.

Bottom line, people: When we talk about URM, everyone bitches about how low SES, not race, should be what gives some people a bump up. Here's the opportunity to self-identify as needing that bump. If you think you need it, check the box and justify it. Just like some people who are judged for how they self-identify racially (http://www.nytimes.com/1988/10/09/u...uestions-on-misuse-of-affirmative-action.html) you will be judged if you check the box. If you think you can stand up to that scrutiny, go for it. You've earned it.
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I agree with everything you've stated except the first line. Schools that have low graduation rates typically lack the resources to adequately deliver a proper education. Even if these students make it to college, look at their prospects for graduation! There's a huge gap between the preparation they were given versus their peers. These students do have to work harder to overcome a disadvantage, similar to how a student from a low SES has to. How does that not qualify as disadvantaged?
 
efle said:
Are you? How does a better understanding of probability change or invalidate anything he said? Those are all true statements.

God I love watching people condescend while they actually put forth no coherent argument whatsoever
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Didn't say his statements weren't true. Saying that there's no need to think in terms of black and white. You like to think in terms of arbitrary cutoffs - i.e. people who meet these requirements are disadvantaged, people who don't are not. Being disadvantaged is not an absolute - it's a spectrum. That's why there is no arbitrary point where someone is disadvantaged. If your school scores below the 10th percentile, for example, you are not necessarily disadvantaged if your parents spend money to rectify it by hiring a tutor. But it makes you more likely to be disadvantaged because most parents who live in such districts don't have the money to hire tutors.

Btw, I'm not being condescending. If I were being condescending, I'd say, "STFU, you dumb, ignorant ****." But I didn't say that. Or did I?
 
Tired said:
Given your multiple poor interactions with other posters in this thread, it's pretty clear that you equate disagreement with rudeness, so that doesn't bother me a whole lot.
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Nailed it on the head. Disagreeing with him makes me rude, and somehow justifies calling me stupid.

munsil said:
Whatever floats your boat man. Maybe you should get back to your own life and not concern yourself with mine.
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Says the guy who said "bye" yet remained to give petty insults
 
chemist16 said:
Didn't say his statements weren't true. Saying that there's no need to think in terms of black and white. You like to think in terms of arbitrary cutoffs - i.e. people who meet these requirements are disadvantaged, people who don't are not. Being disadvantaged is not an absolute - it's a spectrum. That's why there is no arbitrary point where someone is disadvantaged. If your school scores below the 10th percentile, for example, you are not necessarily disadvantaged if your parents spend money to rectify it by hiring a tutor. But it makes you more likely to be disadvantaged because most parents who live in such districts don't have the money to hire tutors.

Btw, I'm not being condescending. If I were being condescending, I'd say, "STFU, you dumb, ignorant ****." But I didn't say that. Or did I?
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You really don't think your message came across as "you're wrong and don't understand probability?" If it seemed anything else to you, you should work on controlling the tone of your writing

Again, gotta love it when people like you throw that 'tude. Keep going I'm not put in my place yet, tell me how much smarter you are
 
Oh, and @efle, before you get yourself all worked up about it, I don't actually think you're a dumb, ignorant ****. I think you're a hardworking, intelligent, sexy young man/woman.
 
Ah, looks like my post arrived a couple seconds too late. You're smarter, more hard-working, and sexier than I. That is beyond a doubt.
 
chemist16 said:
Ah, looks like my post arrived a couple seconds too late. You're smarter, more hard-working, and sexier than I. That is beyond a doubt.
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Anyone can check the box but that doesn't mean that everyone is encouraged to do so. Similarly, I believe she said you could check the box and attempt to justify it, but tread carefully. That's not exactly advocating that you do so. Also, given that she just made the point that trashed inner-city schools hardly qualify as disadvantaged, I doubt she thinks your rural education qualifies you if your household income was fine.
 
rachiie01 said:
Anyone can check the box but that doesn't mean that everyone is encouraged to do so. Similarly, I believe she said you could check the box and attempt to justify it, but tread carefully. That's not exactly advocating that you do so. Also, given that she just made the point that trashed inner-city schools hardly qualify as disadvantaged, I doubt she thinks your rural education qualifies you if your household income was fine.
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Okay... I apologize, she said I could, which is not explicitly advocating. But it doesn't matter anyway guys, I already said I'm not..... I feel like this is all very circular.
 
The fact that some kids drop out doesn't mean that a kid who wants to can't get a good education in a poor school district
http://www.localschooldirectory.com/top-schools/school-districts/high/CT/2#r_116
http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Ansonia-s-valedictorian-from-Ecuador-to-Ivy-6317627.php

On the other hand, I recall an applicant who was raised by a rather wild teen mom & uneducated but hard working grandparents and didn't feel ready for college & so joined the military as an enlisted service member, later enrolled in a service academy and served as an officer. That's the sort of rags to riches story that makes adcoms sit up & take notice.

I said someone could check the box. I emphasized could because it is a choice and like all choices, it has positives and negatives.
 
It isn't just "some kids" that are dropping out, it's near half of the students that are dropping out or failing out.

Of course there are individual success stories, but just because a small percentage made it doesn't meant that they didn't have to overcome a disadvantage to get there. Yes, Pablo Suarez was number 1 in his graduating high school class, but I would be interested to see how he performs against his peers at his ivy league school.

We'll have to agree to disagree.
 
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