Should I even try to be a doctor at this point?

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

Context + Important Grades + Academics

I’ve always thought that I wanted to be a physician or work in some subset of healthcare (i.e. nursing, pharmacy). In fact, I never even bothered to explore other careers in high school and my first 1.5 years of college because I was so attached to the medical/healthcare fields.

However, as time went on, my goals shifted as I looked at my poor GPA, especially after organic chemistry, and after deciding that I wanted to be entirely financially independent after college (no, living off loans doesn’t count) because my parents are toxic and controlling.

Ultimately, I ended up graduating last December from UC Berkeley with a 3.73 GPA in economics. I gave up on premed classes and spent the last 2 years of college focused on landing a career in a business field, which I’m currently working in.

My cGPA is 3.79. It’s different from the 3.73 I listed above as my college GPA, as it includes some classes I took in community college during my gap semester and in HS. My sGPA is anywhere between 3.5 to 3.65 depending on if the 3 courses below with asterisks count.

I’m sure y’all can clearly see that I suck at all things STEM because of the huge delta between my cGPA and sGPA. I've literally NEVER earned a B in anything humanities related, and the worst grade I've gotten in an economics class was an A-, so...yeah.

Here are my science grades in greater detail (I added asterisks if I wasn’t sure they were BCPM classes or not):

• General Chemistry - A
• General Chemistry Lab - A
• Calculus I - B+
• Calculus II - B+
• Statistics - B+
• Organic Chemistry 1 - B-
• Organic Chemistry 1 Lab - A
• Physiology - A
• Organic Chemistry II - P (Would have been a B or B+ if not for P/NP in Spring 2020)
• Introduction to Data Science (Listed under stat department at my school) - A*
• Introduction to Research Methods in Psychology - A+*
• Biological Anthropology - A*

Other Red Flags Besides Sucking at Science

Other red flags on my application would be that I P/NP-ed most of my economics classes between Spring 2020 and Fall 2021 and that I withdrew from school in Fall 2018. That being said, I took CC classes during Spring 2019 and did well in all of them (straight A’s). I also never got anything below a B+ after returning to my college in Summer 2019 if I took the classes letter graded. I've never had problems with the law or gotten punished for academic dishonesty.

Extracurriculars

As for EC’s, I shadowed a GI doctor for about 15 hours and did some hospice volunteering for about 20 hours. I was a health worker in college dormitories for about 6 weeks (~15 hours), and was a general chemistry lab assistant and TA for one semester each. I was part of a premed club my freshman year of college, but didn’t contribute much beyond being an active member. I’ve also been an unpaid intern at 3 healthcare startups, if those even count, and currently work in the business side of healthcare for my full-time job.

Why Am I Even Thinking About Healthcare Again if I Suck at Science So Much?

So the reason that I’m thinking of doing a career in healthcare again, whether it’s medicine or nursing, is because…while I like the creative/analytical/people side of business, a career in healthcare feels more meaningful to me and because I’ve wanted to work in healthcare since I was a kid. I'd like feeling like I'm making a direct impact in people's lives.

However, I’m not entirely sure if it’d be worth it since I’d have a lot more pre-reqs to take and because I’m not good at science. I have a very weak background in biology and physics. AND, even if I were to get accepted into med school, I honestly don’t know if I’d be able to graduate and pass STEP exams because I’m so bad at science and have test anxiety. Not to mention all the financial pressure of not being able to graduate from medical school...

I’m also not really willing to do a formal, full-time postbacc unless it’s somehow free for me (won't happen LOL) and while CC classes are free in my city, they’re during working hours. I’m also not sure if I’m willing to give up a cushy job in business for the years of stress that come with being a medical student and resident and whatnot. Additionally, I am supporting myself in a VHCOL city (but am very frugal and spend only 750/month or so).

At this point, I feel like being an RN or NP is more doable for me and would make more sense vs. going the MD/DO route.

Any thoughts on my grades, overall academic capability, or whether I should even try to be doctor would be appreciated.

I'm also 23, female, and ORM if it matters. Also a California resident.

What Have Others Said About My Chances?

My parents, who are really blunt, didn't think I'd get into medical school on that trajectory. They thought that I should focus on things I'm actually good at. Neither of them are doctors, though.

A biology student advisor said that she thought I still had a chance, and the premed advisor at my school just said some **** about how grades aren't everything because she saw B/C students get II's when straight A students didn't.

My Expectations

If I were to become a doctor, I literally don't expect anything at all and am not one of those gunners who's only aiming for Harvard Medical School or some ****. Despite my username, I know that I'll likely never become a dermatologist given how competitive it is and I don't expect to get into any MD schools at all.

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[Goro]

On what planet do your science grades = "you suck at science"?

Here on planet Earth, you're a competitive student. You don't need a 4.0- GPA to get into medical school.

And stop listening to your parents. They love you, but out of ignorance, they're doing they're best to destroy your medical career.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

On what planet do your science grades = "you suck at science"?

Here on planet Earth, you're a competitive student. You don't need a 4.0- GPA to get into medical school.

And stop listening to your parents. They love you, but out of ignorance, they're doing they're best to destroy your medical career.

It's hard to explain, but science is a lot harder for me than humanities/economics and even math. Also, peep that B-minus in organic chemistry LOL

Science doesn't feel intuitive to me, and as I said, I have a very weak background in biology and physics.

And yeah, my parents don't want me to go into medicine or nursing LOL. They think it's better to just choose a field where you can make a moderate/high amount of money after undergrad.

 

[GoSpursGo]

It's hard to explain, but science is a lot harder for me than humanities/economics and even math. Also, peep that B-minus in organic chemistry LOL

Science doesn't feel intuitive to me, and as I said, I have a very weak background in biology and physics.

And yeah, my parents don't want me to go into medicine or nursing LOL. They think it's better to just choose a field where you can make a moderate/high amount of money after undergrad.

Yep, science courses are hard. Getting A's and B's shows that you can handle the rigor. Stop being so self-deprecating. If you want to be a nurse/NP because you don't want to slog through an additional 7-11 years of training after entering med school, then fair enough, but don't try to play this off as you don't have a choice because you're so bad at science. That's just not the case.

The biggest hurdles will honestly be your lack of clinical experience (how do you know you want to be a doctor with seemingly little first-hand medical experience?) and your state of residence. But if you gain clinical experience and apply broadly with a reasonable MCAT score you will almost certainly get in somewhere.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

Yep, science courses are hard. Getting A's and B's shows that you can handle the rigor. Stop being so self-deprecating. If you want to be a nurse/NP because you don't want to slog through an additional 7-11 years of training after entering med school, then fair enough, but don't try to play this off as you don't have a choice because you're so bad at science. That's just not the case.

The biggest hurdles will honestly be your lack of clinical experience (how do you know you want to be a doctor with seemingly little first-hand medical experience?) and your state of residence. But if you gain clinical experience and apply broadly with a reasonable MCAT score you will almost certainly get in somewhere.

Thanks for the compliment re: my science abilities, but I know a lot of people at my school with much higher GPA's in biology and pre-reqs. I'll definitely consider what you said, though, that it's more of a choice and lack of experience/shadowing.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Thanks for the compliment re: my science abilities, but I know a lot of people at my school with much higher GPA's in biology and pre-reqs. I'll definitely consider what you said, though, that it's more of a choice and lack of experience/shadowing.

And there are a lot of people at your school with lower GPAs. The math is the math. Just because someone out there has a higher GPA than you does not preclude you from getting in. Invest in an MSAR, you'll see your GPAs are all well in line with getting accepted to medical schools if that is the path you want to pursue.

I do not know you. However, I will comment that I see a lot of people who exhibit the defense mechanism of "I clearly can't do this, so I shouldn't even try." It makes it much easier to justify not trying when it seems like you really don't have a choice. The truth is that you DO have a choice. The path of going to med school is certainly harder. But whatever you choose, you should own that choice.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

@Goro and @GoSpursGo What's a cGPA/sGPA that you'd say would definitively keep someone out of medical school?

 

[Goro]

@Goro and @GoSpursGo What's a cGPA/sGPA that you'd say would definitively keep someone out of medical school?

Below 3.0. And these are all school specific so the answer to your question also depends upon the school

 

[Goro]

Invest in MSAR online and you can see what are the median gpas of people who are accepted to MD schools

 

[wholeheartedly]

I agree you don’t suck at science. I also agree that you should make a choice and own it.
it’s ok to do NP/PA.

I think the bigger issue is getting a lot more clinical exposure. Both shadowing and some consistent prolonged direct patient experience. You seem a tad idealistic about working in healthcare at this point. Then decide.

Also, there are a ton more careers in healthcare where you’re helping people besides doctor or nurse. So check those out too.

Here’s a page that lists a lot but not all. Most pay fine.

Programs A-Z - Health Sciences Education - Mayo Clinic College of Medicine & Science

Alphabetical list of health sciences training programs offered by Mayo Clinic School of Health Sciences in Arizona, Florida, and Minnesota.

college.mayo.edu

 

[Isoval]

You are fine.

This is not even remotely close to a track record that would be an absolute contraindication to medical school.

 

[inwantstobeadoctor]

Seem like you're having a lot of self doubt that doesn't really align with your GPA; seems kind of unfounded from an outsider's POV. Just remember comparison kills joy, so don't focus on how your peers may be performing (to the extent that it negatively affects your own performance and self esteem regarding your academic capabilities). Focus on being the best version of yourself in all aspects of the different components med schools look for in potential medical students and you'll be fine!

 

[wholeheartedly]

sorry that list had gotten a lot longer and more convoluted since i last checked it…lol

 

[LunaOri]

Why don't you do some more shadowing (including shadowing PAs or nurses)? Also get some more clinical exposure by volunteering in a clinical setting. If you do choose medicine, it will probably take you a couple of years to bulk up your clinical exposure and volunteering, as well as study for and take the MCAT. You are very young, so there is no rush! Take your time and investigate all the options.

Your grades will not hold you back from being accepted. And as far as STEM courses being tough, yes they are--for everyone! One of the factors that turns many away from careers in science and engineering is that we have an unrealistic belief that we should have a natural and intuitive understanding of the subjects. Having to work hard at a subject does not mean you are not good at it!

 

[GoSpursGo]

@Goro and @GoSpursGo What's a cGPA/sGPA that you'd say would definitively keep someone out of medical school?

agree with @Goro . You are not close to a GPA that would preclude med school admissions. Honestly you’re not even borderline

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Okay, a pep talk. Wow, we have had a lot of "Should I even bother" articles archived...

1) UC Berkeley: large public state school that probably has prehealth advising, but there are tons of students so academic resources are probably not available or convenient. If you hung around a lot of friends who are gunner-level motivated and think anything lower than 3.8 means you are a failure, you were hanging around a very mentally unhealthy crowd for this particular purpose.

2) You have a very low tolerance for failure and thus it seems to make you afraid of learning from failure. That's going to be what life is all about, especially if you decide to go into the healthcare field. When you don't have all of the answers or the words, you will feel very incompetent very quickly. That's where you decide on whether you should reflect and learn from the challenges or failures to move forward or figure out that the pain is too great and go another path.

The problem is that you have no huge delta in your GPA, and you are still well above a strong GPA for a health professional program in general, not just medical school... which is where you seem to be thinking.

3) Are STEM courses supposed to be challenging? Yes, they are. It takes effort to think in abstract terms. But you aren't successful by being a natural in science. You are successful when you can observe and problem-solve, when you are persistent over years of consistent pain-staking detailed measurements, and when you are able to see the connections and patterns. You need it to be fluent in the basics of a more complicated language that health care will throw at you. You did well enough to stay above a 3.0 (heck, above a 3.5), and if you have strong study habits and a grinding mentality, you'll make it through medical school or any other career.

By the way, if you believe your Asian ethnicity should endow you to be a natural at STEM, stop playing into the stereotypes. You have to get to the point where you are comfortable being you or what you want to become. You do not need a superpower; you can be Mirabelle (reference to Encanto). By the way, the Encanto reference also holds when it comes to how well-meaning your family is, but sometimes to your detriment.

4) So what health professions have you shadowed? What community service experiences kept you energized while in college/currently to serve others, especially any activities that have nothing to do with science or healthcare?

5) Honestly, your excuses only matter to you and they are what you are allowing to hold you back. Only you can decide whether you will be a slave of these doubts or not, but to break out of it, you have to understand you have potential. What you need is a purpose, and once you understand what that is for you, you will be able to be more receptive to any plan that can be presented to you to move forward towards that vision. If you are unable to do that, it won't matter if you had a 4.0 GPA when it comes to becoming a healthcare provider.

Never Tell Me the Odds - The Empire Strikes Back (Episode V)

Following their escape from Hoth, Han, Leia, Chewbacca and C-3PO find themselves pursued by Imperial TIE fighters. Han bets the odds that he can lose the enemy fighters within an asteroid field.

www.starwars.com

 

[deleted1142566]

Hey! Fellow Cal alumni here!

I studied engineering at Cal and am now applying to med school. I have a GPA between 3.0 and 3.5, but it still hasn’t deterred me even though I’m below average for most med schools!

 

[GoSpursGo]

3) Are STEM courses supposed to be challenging? Yes, they are. It takes effort to think in abstract terms. But you aren't successful by being a natural in science. You are successful when you can observe and problem-solve, when you are persistent over years of consistent pain-staking detailed measurements, and when you are able to see the connections and patterns. You need it to be fluent in the basics of a more complicated language that health care will throw at you. You did well enough to stay above a 3.0 (heck, above a 3.5), and if you have strong study habits and a grinding mentality, you'll make it through medical school or any other career.

By the way, if you believe your Asian ethnicity should endow you to be a natural at STEM, stop playing into the stereotypes. You have to get to the point where you are comfortable being you or what you want to become. You do not need a superpower; you can be Mirabelle (reference to Encanto). By the way, the Encanto reference also holds when it comes to how well-meaning your family is, but sometimes to your detriment.

Everything @Mr.Smile12 said is spot on, but I particularly want to highlight this. STEM courses did not come naturally to me, and I did not succeed because I was gifted in them. I worked my ass off and tried harder than my peers every step along the way. Sure, sometimes it bothered me that there are always a few shining stars out there that somehow manage to study much less than me and got higher scores on the tests. But ultimately the only person that I need to measure myself against is me.

The same is true for you. Stop worrying about what others around you are doing, and instead focus on what you can do and what you want out of life. If you want to go to med school, you can make that happen. If you don't want to go to med school, that is totally fine too. But don't let anyone but yourself dictate your path.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

Okay, a pep talk. Wow, we have had a lot of "Should I even bother" articles archived...

1) UC Berkeley: large public state school that probably has prehealth advising, but there are tons of students so academic resources are probably not available or convenient. If you hung around a lot of friends who are gunner-level motivated and think anything lower than 3.8 means you are a failure, you were hanging around a very mentally unhealthy crowd for this particular purpose.

2) You have a very low tolerance for failure and thus it seems to make you afraid of learning from failure. That's going to be what life is all about, especially if you decide to go into the healthcare field. When you don't have all of the answers or the words, you will feel very incompetent very quickly. That's where you decide on whether you should reflect and learn from the challenges or failures to move forward or figure out that the pain is too great and go another path.

The problem is that you have no huge delta in your GPA, and you are still well above a strong GPA for a health professional program in general, not just medical school... which is where you seem to be thinking.

3) Are STEM courses supposed to be challenging? Yes, they are. It takes effort to think in abstract terms. But you aren't successful by being a natural in science. You are successful when you can observe and problem-solve, when you are persistent over years of consistent pain-staking detailed measurements, and when you are able to see the connections and patterns. You need it to be fluent in the basics of a more complicated language that health care will throw at you. You did well enough to stay above a 3.0 (heck, above a 3.5), and if you have strong study habits and a grinding mentality, you'll make it through medical school or any other career.

By the way, if you believe your Asian ethnicity should endow you to be a natural at STEM, stop playing into the stereotypes. You have to get to the point where you are comfortable being you or what you want to become. You do not need a superpower; you can be Mirabelle (reference to Encanto). By the way, the Encanto reference also holds when it comes to how well-meaning your family is, but sometimes to your detriment.

4) So what health professions have you shadowed? What community service experiences kept you energized while in college/currently to serve others, especially any activities that have nothing to do with science or healthcare?

5) Honestly, your excuses only matter to you and they are what you are allowing to hold you back. Only you can decide whether you will be a slave of these doubts or not, but to break out of it, you have to understand you have potential. What you need is a purpose, and once you understand what that is for you, you will be able to be more receptive to any plan that can be presented to you to move forward towards that vision. If you are unable to do that, it won't matter if you had a 4.0 GPA when it comes to becoming a healthcare provider.

Never Tell Me the Odds - The Empire Strikes Back (Episode V)

Following their escape from Hoth, Han, Leia, Chewbacca and C-3PO find themselves pursued by Imperial TIE fighters. Han bets the odds that he can lose the enemy fighters within an asteroid field.

www.starwars.com

• Most of my friends were not even premed, but I felt that many successful premeds at Cal (i.e. got into medical school) had much higher cGPA/sGPA. I don't think my GPA(s) were awful, but I thought it was better to quit while I was ahead.
• What do you mean by "the problem is that you have no huge delta in your GPA?"
• I've never thought I was entitled to A's because of my ethnicity.
• I've shadowed an MD only, no other professions. I've only really done volunteering in healthcare settings.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

Why don't you do some more shadowing (including shadowing PAs or nurses)? Also get some more clinical exposure by volunteering in a clinical setting. If you do choose medicine, it will probably take you a couple of years to bulk up your clinical exposure and volunteering, as well as study for and take the MCAT. You are very young, so there is no rush! Take your time and investigate all the options.

Your grades will not hold you back from being accepted. And as far as STEM courses being tough, yes they are--for everyone! One of the factors that turns many away from careers in science and engineering is that we have an unrealistic belief that we should have a natural and intuitive understanding of the subjects. Having to work hard at a subject does not mean you are not good at it!

Yes, I think shadowing PA's and nurses would be helpful as well.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

• Most of my friends were not even premed, but I felt that many successful premeds at Cal (i.e. got into medical school) had much higher cGPA/sGPA.
• What do you mean by "the problem is that you have no huge delta in your GPA?" (ACK! my mistake)
• I've never thought I was entitled to A's because of my ethnicity.
• I've shadowed an MD only, no other professions. I've only really done volunteering in healthcare settings.

The first point: fine, there are many successful premeds who had higher GPA's, and they got into medical school and probably any other graduate program they wanted. But it's not a ticket or iron-clad guarantee. AAMC Table A-23 shows that those with AMCAS undergraduate overall GPA's 3.60 to 3.79 from 2019-2022 had a 43.4% chance of getting an offer. Those who got 3.80+ had a 61.9% chance. Again, it's not a sure thing, even if you had much higher GPA's, so there's really not a reason to be so pessimistic.

But how many did you also hang around who had relatively lower GPA's? There are many success stories here and in our forum archive.

The second point, I should have gone back to edit: you don't have a huge delta in your GPA. Even though you are an economics major, your science GPA is still above 3.5, and that puts you in a good position for just about any graduate or professional program.

To the fourth point, it's always a question of "why medicine", but it also implies "why healthcare" as a system. MD's aren't the only doctors in hospitals, so you need to know who else plays in the neighborhood (DO's, NP's, PA's, PharmD's, and other professions like dentists, PT's, and psychologists). The more you understand how you fit within the context of these other colleagues, the more realistic you will be about your specific role as a physician.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

The first point: fine, there are many successful premeds who had higher GPA's, and they got into medical school and probably any other graduate program they wanted. But how many did you also hang around who had relatively lower GPA's? Advisors and recruiters can show you that GPA/MCAT alone won't get you in, but your admissions chances are decent, even if you go to around 3.60. AAMC Table A-23 shows that those with AMCAS undergraduate overall GPA's 3.60 to 3.79 from 2019-2022 had a 43.4% chance of getting an offer. Those who got 3.80+ had a 61.9% chance. Again, it's not a sure thing, even if you had much higher GPA's, so there's really not a reason to be so pessimistic.

The second point, I should have gone back to edit: you don't have a huge delta in your GPA. Even though you are an economics major, your science GPA is still above 3.5, and that puts you in a good position for just about any graduate or professional program.

To the fourth point, it's always a question of "why medicine", but it also implies "why healthcare" as a system. MD's aren't the only doctors in hospitals, so you need to know who else plays in the neighborhood (DO's, NP's, PA's, PharmD's, and other professions like dentists, PT's, and psychologists). The more you understand how you fit within the context of these other colleagues, the more realistic you will be about your specific role as a physician.

43.4% is kind of a low number...and ty for the other advice. I've seen peers with similar GPA's and lower get in to vet school and med school, I suppose.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

43.4% is kind of a low number...and ty for the other advice.

Sure but the overall national average of that dataset is 40.8% acceptance, so you still beat the "average".

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

Sure but the overall national average of that dataset is 40.8% acceptance, so you still beat the "average".

Lol I guess if I do intend on being a doctor someday, I need to study hard for my other science pre-req classes, eh? Also, would it make sense to take OChem I and II again? Not necessarily to boost my GPA, but rather to get a better understanding of both subjects.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Adding, AACOMAS table for a similar applicant time period (2018-2021) puts applicants at 3.60-3.79 at 48.8% acceptance. The acceptance for 3.80+ is 46.3% noting that many people who got accepted to AMCAS don't tend to apply to AACOMAS. I'll also note AACOMAS 3.40-3.59 GPA has a 45.5% acceptance.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

Adding, AACOMAS table for a similar applicant time period (2018-2021) puts applicants at 3.60-3.79 at 48.8% acceptance. The acceptance for 3.80+ is 46.3% noting that many people who got accepted to AMCAS don't tend to apply to AACOMAS. I'll also note AACOMAS 3.40-3.59 GPA has a 45.5% acceptance.

Is AACOMAS for DO schools? My cousin with a 3.7 sGPA and 3.8 cGPA who went to UF only got into DO schools. He's male and ORM.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Lol I guess if I do intend on being a doctor someday, I need to study hard for my other science pre-req classes, eh? Also, would it make sense to take OChem I and II again? Not necessarily to boost my GPA, but rather to get a better understanding of both subjects.

You didn't get C's in any of those classes, and I wouldn't risk going off the Pass for OC2. The only reason why you may want to refresh your memory is to prep for the MCAT, and for that you should go to MCAT prep materials, using your original OC study materials sparsely for more details.

Connect with current students who go to medical schools near you. Go to recruitment events (UC Davis or similar fairs) and connect with admissions representatives. You may need a couple of other upper-level biomedical science classes (I don't know, but you don't need to share your transcript in the public forum on this, PM me if you want), but you can get there with your metrics. You just need the experiences and the purpose.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Is AACOMAS for DO schools? My cousin with a 3.7 sGPA and 3.8 cGPA who went to UF only got into DO schools. He's male and ORM.

Yes. Would you be willing to accept that result (getting accepted to DO programs) to be a physician?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Adding, AACOMAS table for a similar applicant time period (2018-2021) puts applicants at 3.60-3.79 at 48.8% acceptance. The acceptance for 3.80+ is 46.3% noting that many people who got accepted to AMCAS don't tend to apply to AACOMAS. I'll also note AACOMAS 3.40-3.59 GPA has a 45.5% acceptance.

Just a small point of clarification--the AACOMAS charts give a matriculation rate, not an acceptance rate. So if someone matriculates to an MD school, they will not get included in the "percentage" on the AACOMAS spreadsheet even if they got multiple DO acceptances. While it is not an exact science, you could probably add the two percentages and get a decent idea of what an applicant's odds are if they apply to both MD and DO schools. In this case it's probably in the 70-80s%, and once you get over a ~505 MCAT with a reasonable number of volunteer hours acceptance becomes near certain.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

Yes. Would you be willing to accept that result (getting accepted to DO programs) to be a physician?

I'd ideally get into an MD school, but yeah, DO would be fine with me because like I said, I don't have high expectations at all knowing that I'm not great at science

 

[LunaOri]

Lol I guess if I do intend on being a doctor someday, I need to study hard for my other science pre-req classes, eh? Also, would it make sense to take OChem I and II again? Not necessarily to boost my GPA, but rather to get a better understanding of both subjects.

Oh, heck no! Organic chemistry has nothing to do with medical school.

 

[Dral]

I get it. I always got good grades in math courses, but I'm not good at it. I never do it the way other people do and have to work much harder at it. I've figured out that it's likely due to the fact that I'm such a visual person. I feel this is the case since while I generally suck at math I LOVED geometry and rocked it all over the place...I think I ended up with a 108% in the course thanks to all the extra credit and such. I couldn't get enough of it. I ended up in Derm, so I guess being a visual person, that makes sense.

I think if you can swing it somehow, see how you do with a full course load of science courses. If you can swing it and it doesn't wreck you too hard, then you should likely be able to handle the first two years of medical school. After that, hard science becomes less of a direct day to day part of what you do and you might fare better.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

I get it. I always got good grades in math courses, but I'm not good at it. I never do it the way other people do and have to work much harder at it. I've figured out that it's likely due to the fact that I'm such a visual person. I ended up in Derm, so I guess that makes sense.

I think if you can swing it somehow, see how you do with a full course load of science courses. If you can swing it and it doesn't wreck you too hard, then you should likely be able to handle the first two years of medical school. After that, hard science becomes less of a direct day to day part of what you do and you might fare better.

LOL, I wanted to be a dermatologist when I was 17-18 (had moderate acne that made me really self-conscious) but I'm not visual at all so welp. Do DO's have a shot at being dermatologists at all?

 

[Dral]

They do, though it's more of an uphill climb. We've had a few come through our program. One in particular I remember was/is spectacular. She now does derm and cosmetics in a big city market.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

They do, though it's more of an uphill climb. We've had a few come through our program. One in particular I remember was/is spectacular. She now does derm and cosmetics in a big city market.

when you said that you were "visual" does that mean that you did really well in stuff like ochem and anatomy?

also, why specifically is it more of an uphill climb? is it because DO candidates aren't seen as competitive as MD candidates for more competitive residencies like derm?

 

[Dral]

Yes, I did very well in Ochem. Our course recommended we buy ochem ball and stick model kits to use. I didn't understand what the purpose was and thought it was a waste of my money because I could do it all in my head through visualization. Anatomy was one of my best courses first year of med school as well. I also have an aptitude for molecular stuff and genetics because I can turn what is going on into little pictures in my head either by inventing it or based on diagrams of it I have seen before.

The answer to your second question is 'yes'. Most Derm programs are MD run programs. Thus, there is a general preference for MD candidates. However, there are many parts at work here. Many MD schools have ample research opportunities and at home derm departments while many DO programs do not have these things. Also, MD candidates are generally higher caliber. So it's not just one thing, but multiple forces at work that give MD candidates an advantage.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

Yes, I did very well in Ochem. Our course recommended we buy ochem ball and stick model kits to use. I didn't understand what the purpose was and thought it was a waste of my money because I could do it all in my head through visualization. Anatomy was one of my best courses first year of med school as well. I also have an aptitude for molecular stuff and genetics because I can turn what is going on into little pictures in my head either by inventing it or based on diagrams of it I have seen before.

The answer to your second question is 'yes'. Most Derm programs are MD run programs. Thus, there is a general preference for MD candidates. However, there are many parts at work here. Many MD schools have ample research opportunities and at home derm departments while many DO programs do not have these things. Also, MD candidates are generally higher caliber. So it's not just one thing, but multiple forces at work that give MD candidates an advantage.

We're like the opposite - I suck at visualization and ochem so perhaps derm isn't right for me lol. Ty for the context about DO vs. MD for derm

 

[Sn00pygrrl]

@Mr.Smile12 --can we go back 20 years and you give me the same pep talk? This is exactly what I needed to hear back then. LOL.

OP--Just to reiterate what others are saying here--you're not terrible at science and you have a chance of doing whatever you want to do if you want it bad enough and are wiling to work hard.

I grew up with parents who actively discouraged me from science and math because as they said, "you're not good at those subjects." It took me about 20 years (and a great mentor who believed in me) to realize that you just need a baseline intelligence for these subjects and the rest is hard work and repetition until you get it. Are some people innately talented at math and science? Sure! But I don't count myself among them and I was still able to achieve a 4.0 in my science and math prerequisites (while working full-time at a demanding clinical job). I worked super duper hard and wanted it badly enough.

Also, can we set the record straight that if you hate math and science, please don't go into nursing / NP! The last thing we need is more nurses who don't understand anything about their patient or why they are delivering the medications / interventions that are ordered. You actually do need to know some math/science stuff to be an RN / NP. Take it from an RN (5 yrs)--> current NP (8 yrs) --> med school applicant.

Feel free to DM me if needed--I'm happy to chat about my journey to medicine given where I started (literature major).

 

[Dral]

We're like the opposite - I suck at visualization and ochem so perhaps derm isn't right for me lol. Ty for the context about DO vs. MD for derm

I was also an Art major in college. I don't think someone necessarily has to be a visual person to do Dermatology. However, I think it does tend to attract people with those sorts of brains.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

@Mr.Smile12 --can we go back 20 years and you give me the same pep talk? This is exactly what I needed to hear back then. LOL.

OP--Just to reiterate what others are saying here--you're not terrible at science and you have a chance of doing whatever you want to do if you want it bad enough and are wiling to work hard.

I grew up with parents who actively discouraged me from science and math because as they said, "you're not good at those subjects." It took me about 20 years (and a great mentor who believed in me) to realize that you just need a baseline intelligence for these subjects and the rest is hard work and repetition until you get it. Are some people innately talented at math and science? Sure! But I don't count myself among them and I was still able to achieve a 4.0 in my science and math prerequisites (while working full-time at a demanding clinical job). I worked super duper hard and wanted it badly enough.

Also, can we set the record straight that if you hate math and science, please don't go into nursing / NP! The last thing we need is more nurses who don't understand anything about their patient or why they are delivering the medications / interventions that are ordered. You actually do need to know some math/science stuff to be an RN / NP. Take it from an RN (5 yrs)--> current NP (8 yrs) --> med school applicant.

Feel free to DM me if needed--I'm happy to chat about my journey to medicine given where I started (literature major).

Happy to PM you, but curious to know why you're going from nursing to medicine?

 

[Sn00pygrrl]

Happy to PM you, but curious to know why you're going from nursing to medicine?

Sure--in my case it's rather straightforward--I want to take on additional patient care responsibilities and accountability for patient outcomes.

 

[candbgirl]

@Goro and @GoSpursGo What's a cGPA/sGPA that you'd say would definitively keep someone out of medical school?

This is a strange question. Do you really want to go to med school? It seems you are very intent on convincing yourself that you aren’t qualified and will never be qualified. Perhaps you need to start doing some heavy duty volunteering on weekends at a hospital. See what actually happens with nurses and docs and the jobs they do. Set up some shadowing with a primary care doc(take a couple of personal days to do this activity). You might decide yes this is what I was meant to do with my life or you might decide hell no. This isn’t for me. Then you will know or at least have a better idea if you want to fight for a seat at a medical school.

Oh and FYI, a B- in Orgo is a good grade. Lots of med students would have loved to earn that in college. So just stop with the “I’m bad at science” stuff. Why do you think that? Because you have to work hard to be successful?

 

[Sn00pygrrl]

I'd ideally get into an MD school, but yeah, DO would be fine with me because like I said, I don't have high expectations at all knowing that I'm not great at science

Also--look up "negative self-talk" and how destructive/toxic to your self-esteem and self-efficacy that it is. Literally you are the only thing standing in your own way. There are many evidence-based tools (e.g. cognitive behavioral therapy) that can help you challenge these thoughts and replace them with more productive / constructive ones that can help you get to your goal, whatever that may be.

For example, you can reframe: instead of saying "I'm not great at science," say, "I need to work hard to get better grades at science."

 

[cander67]

43.4% is kind of a low number...and ty for the other advice. I've seen peers with similar GPA's and lower get in to vet school and med school, I suppose.

That number goes much higher if you have a high mcat. That’s just all people with that GPA. BTW I got into an MD program with an average GPA of 3.8 while mine was only 3.6 with an sGPA of 3.45 as an ORM. My MCAT was above the 90th percentile but what I’m trying to say is you totally have a decent chance if you have a good story and reason to pursue medicine

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

This is a strange question. Do you really want to go to med school? It seems you are very intent on convincing yourself that you aren’t qualified and will never be qualified. Perhaps you need to start doing some heavy duty volunteering on weekends at a hospital. See what actually happens with nurses and docs and the jobs they do. Set up some shadowing with a primary care doc(take a couple of personal days to do this activity). You might decide yes this is what I was meant to do with my life or you might decide hell no. This isn’t for me. Then you will know or at least have a better idea if you want to fight for a seat at a medical school.

Oh and FYI, a B- in Orgo is a good grade. Lots of med students would have loved to earn that in college. So just stop with the “I’m bad at science” stuff. Why do you think that? Because you have to work hard to be successful?

Ty for the suggestion about shadowing / volunteering - also, are you absolutely serious about a B- being an enviable grade in organic chemistry?

I think I'm bad at science because it's not as intuitive for me as math, economics, or the humanities. Even for the classes I got A's in, such as gen chem and physiology, they didn't come without studying and hard work. I actually even confused blood pressure and blood volume in physiology LOL

 

[candbgirl]

Ty for the suggestion about shadowing / volunteering - also, are you absolutely serious about a B- being an enviable grade in organic chemistry?

I think I'm bad at science because it's not as intuitive for me as math, economics, or the humanities. Even for the classes I got A's in, such as gen chem and physiology, they didn't come without studying and hard work. I actually even confused blood pressure and blood volume in physiology LOL

Well med school is hard for almost everyone. But if that’s where a path takes a person they just figure it out. At this point you really have yourself firmly convinced your grades aren’t good enough. I suggest you spend some time exploring SDN. ( You joined yesterday so you have much to learn.) start with the LOW GPA HIGH MCAT thread a few threads down. Then spend time going through the WAMC threads and see what others are doing/have done to build their applications. You might also want to look at the Non-Traditional Forum. If you spend time reading you’ll see you are in good shape grades wise.

And yes I meant that a B- in Orgo I was a good grade.

 

[Goro]

It's not jut about the GPA

Is AACOMAS for DO schools? My cousin with a 3.7 sGPA and 3.8 cGPA who went to UF only got into DO schools. He's male and ORM.

It's not only about the GPA. What was his MCAT score?

Do DO's have a shot at being dermatologists at all?
It's an uphill battle, but yes.

I don't have high expectations at all knowing that I'm not great at science
Have a chat with Student Services about your self-esteem issues as well.

re you absolutely serious about a B- being an enviable grade in organic chemistry?
Orgo is the medical career graveyard of tens of thousands of pre-meds! It's the reason why many applicant will have a U-shaped GPA trend, and why sGPA is usually a 0.2 basis point lower than cGPA for med school acceptees.

 

[chilly_md]

I agree with candbgirl that you have to decide whether you actually want to go to medical school. Your GPA is fine and grades are fine, don't try to use them as a reason that you shouldn't. Between shadowing and hospice, you have 35 hours in a healthcare setting. That's not nearly enough time to see if medicine is the field for you.

I bolded the below part of your post:

So the reason that I’m thinking of doing a career in healthcare again, whether it’s medicine or nursing, is because…while I like the creative/analytical/people side of business, a career in healthcare feels more meaningful to me and because I’ve wanted to work in healthcare since I was a kid. I'd like feeling like I'm making a direct impact in people's lives.

It seems you enjoy what you do but feel that working in medicine (either as a physician or RN) would be more meaningful based on childhood aspirations. You can still make an impact in your current career, you just have to look at different industries, the non-profit sector, or even just supplementing you time with volunteering.

Test anxiety is something you will have to work on because there will be exams for all the healthcare professions you listed.

 

[AcneRosaceaDermatitis]

It's not jut about the GPA

It's not only about the GPA. What was his MCAT score?

I think it was 511 or 515. Something that wasn't amazingly great but not awfully horrendous either.

 

[Goro]

Test anxiety is something you will have to work on because there will be exams for all the healthcare professions you lislisted

And test anxiety is fixable. Go gave a chat with the folks in Student Services