Should I give up on becoming a physician???

[DexterMorganSK]

Do you think OP should try Pod school? To my knowlage, the Pod privileges are independant of STEP.

I think the bigger question which program (DO, DPM, etc) will take OP back, after reviewing his/her app.
Which why I suggested above to contact OPs program of interest first.
Maybe an Adcom here can advise about OPs chances.

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[GypsyHummus]

One of the low tier pod schools might. Word on the street is apps are down this year to DPM.

I think the bigger question which program (DO, DPM, etc) will take OP back, after reviewing his/her app.
Which why I suggested above to contact OPs program of interest first.
Maybe an Adcom here can advise about OPs chances.

 

[Goro]

Why would a DO school take someone that has failed STEP 1 3 times?
If COMLEX is similar in difficulty to the STEP 1 then how would OPs app convenience an Adcom that he/she will be successful in a DO program?

I think the bigger question which program (DO, DPM, etc) will take OP back, after reviewing his/her app.
Which why I suggested above to contact OPs program of interest first.
Maybe an Adcom here can advise about OPs chances.

OP would be DOA at my school and tons of others. Maybe some of the newest schools might take him/her if they're desperate for warm bodies.

Isn't there a limit to how many times you can take USMLE anyway?

 

[DexterMorganSK]

OP would be DOA at my school and tons of others. Maybe some of the newest schools might take him/her if they're desperate for warm bodies.

Isn't there a limit to how many times you can take USMLE anyway?

"You are ineligible to take a Step or Step Component if you have made six or more prior attempts to pass that Step or Step Component, including incomplete attempts"

United States Medical Licensing Examination | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)

 

[Giovanotto]

I'm really sorry to hear what's happening to you OP. If it were me, I'd consider PA school or Nursing school, whichever accepts you. It's not the same, but you'll still be working in healthcare, and with a salary that will help you keep your head above water. Best of luck.

 

[68PGunner]

So long story short, I am a US md student that has failed Step 1 3 times, the last time by one point, my score was 191 and passing was 192. I go back and forth between giving up completely and asking my school to let me retake it a 4th time. I've only ever wanted FM ,maybe community IM, or Psych. Honestly if I didn't miss this damn test by 1 point I would shamelessly withdraw, but I know IMGS who have taken the test up to 5 times and they are here practicing in the US. Given the amount of debt I have, and the fact that I am a US MD, I think my school should allow me to stay enrolled until I retake, what do they have to lose???

There will be podiatry schools out there that will take you and let you skip the first year.

I know of at least one podiatry school that will do the above based from my sources. PM for the name of the school if you’re interested in this pathway.

Otherwise, I would go the PA/NP route. I’m sorry that this is happening to you. Nothing here will make you feel better. I hope that you find success in your decision and able to carve out a niche that will lead to a nice career and some financial independence.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Yeah I highly doubt I will apply to any type of medical school or podiatry school, the time investment is too great and I’m getting to old and too in debt to keep doing this to myself. The only medical thing I’ve been thinking about is Anesthesia Assistant school, which is like PA for Anesthesia, it pays relatively well and only takes 2 years. I will say this, I will never see the medical field the same again, the process is made excessively difficult, excessively long, and ridiculously expensive for no other reason than to make the MD degree as exclusionary as possible. And its about exclusion not quality control, it’s pretty much a medieval guild system that still exist in the 21st century. And of course I get the high suicide rate, no free time to develop as a person coupled with ridiculous expectations make med students and residents jump off of buildings. If medicine doesn’t kill me now it would have killed me later, I’ll try to find something to do in the meantime to keep myself from starving.

 

[jhamaican]

I am more curious as to how you managed to get into medical school yet can't pass step 1. Clearly the system failed in this instance.

We aren't talking a 270 here... Not that hard to pass.

Are u dealing with depression or extraneous circumstances?

 

[GypsyHummus]

Dentistry. Should have done Dentistry. They actually get to have a life outside of the medicine they practice.

Yeah I highly doubt I will apply to any type of medical school or podiatry school, the time investment is too great and I’m getting to old and too in debt to keep doing this to myself. The only medical thing I’ve been thinking about is Anesthesia Assistant school, which is like PA for Anesthesia, it pays relatively well and only takes 2 years. I will say this, I will never see the medical field the same again, the process is made excessively difficult, excessively long, and ridiculously expensive for no other reason than to make the MD degree as exclusionary as possible. And its about exclusion not quality control, it’s pretty much a medieval guild system that still exist in the 21st century. And of course I get the high suicide rate, no free time to develop as a person coupled with ridiculous expectations make med students and residents jump off of buildings. If medicine doesn’t kill me now it would have killed me later, I’ll try to find something to do in the meantime to keep myself from starving.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I will say this, I will never see the medical field the same again, the process is made excessively difficult, excessively long, and ridiculously expensive for no other reason than to make the MD degree as exclusionary as possible. And its about exclusion not quality control, it’s pretty much a medieval guild system that still exist in the 21st century.

Step 1 IS quality control. It’s to determine if you can make it through the clinical years and in residency. Step 1 scores correlate with board pass rates in multiple studies. Just because you failed to pass doesn’t mean the system is exclusionary. In fact, it’s been overly kind to you. If you were in the military and failed your physical, they wouldn’t give you three chances to pass.


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[W19]

Step 1 IS quality control. It’s to determine if you can make it through the clinical years and in residency. Step 1 scores correlate with board pass rates in multiple studies. Just because you failed to pass doesn’t mean the system is exclusionary. In fact, it’s been overly kind to you. If you were in the military and failed your physical, they wouldn’t give you three chances to pass.


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I don't think a 198 step1 doc would be any better than a 188 step1 in 2014 when 188 was the minimum passing score...

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Step 1 IS quality control. It’s to determine if you can make it through the clinical years and in residency. Step 1 scores correlate with board pass rates in multiple studies. Just because you failed to pass doesn’t mean the system is exclusionary. In fact, it’s been overly kind to you. If you were in the military and failed your physical, they wouldn’t give you three chances to pass.


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NPs pretty much do the same thing FM docs do, they raise the passing score every couple of years for no other reason than to make things harder. When I started med school the passing score was 188.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

I don't think a 198 step1 doc would be any better than a 188 step1 in 2014 when 188 was the minimum passing score...

The quality of applicants is rising with time. It makes sense that the bar for passing is also higher.


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[psychMDhopefully]

The quality of applicants is rising with time. It makes sense that the bar for passing is also higher.


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Or, they could keep the bar the same for a few years and allow slightly more people to become doctors. Its not about quality its all about money, if teachers were the ones making 200k plus a year, the standardized test to get a license in that would be ridiculous instead of 5th grade math and reading.

 

[Giovanotto]

The quality of applicants is rising with time. It makes sense that the bar for passing is also higher.


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I sooooo doubt this assertion. How so? Which quality are we referring to? Do you mean the hours spent years after undergrad doing monkey business to appear more qualified. It's all just a game. You could still make the point that we are more qualified than ever as applicants under some circumstances or metrics, but that in no way makes us more apt physicians in the future. All it means is that we spent more time spinning our wheels; wasted energy.

ps. my semicolons are always a shot in the dark.

 

[W19]

People would swear that it would be impossible to have a 3-yr curriculum for med school when the evidence shows it can be easily done. A lot of schools have 1.5 year basic science curriculum now. Are people really saying 1.5 year would not be enough for clerkships when we spend the majority of our time during clerkship doing nothing? Every single rotation should be no more than 4 weeks. IM/FM/Psych/Gen surgery/Peds/Neurology should be done in 7 month and people can use the other 11 months for aways, steps and residency interviews.

Please save me of the BS that you did a lot in 3rd year at your school because I have done 3 aways now and I see the students at these programs are doing the same thing I was doing when i was in 3rd year.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Quality is most certainly rising every year.

It used to be ten years ago, anyone with a 3.3 gpa and a 23 mcat could get into a DO school. Now, you have ICOM, a school that opened up in the middle of the application cycle rejecting people with 3.5 GPA and 500 mcat scores (25 on the old scale).

I sooooo doubt this assertion. How so? Which quality are we referring to? Do you mean the hours spent years after undergrad doing monkey business to appear more qualified. It's all just a game. You could still make the point that we are more qualified than ever as applicants under some circumstances or metrics, but that in no way makes us more apt physicians in the future. All it means is that we spent more time spinning our wheels; wasted energy.

ps. my semicolons are always a shot in the dark.

 

[prettylittlebird]

Quality is most certainly rising every year.

It used to be ten years ago, anyone with a 3.3 gpa and a 23 mcat could get into a DO school. Now, you have ICOM, a school that opened up in the middle of the application cycle rejecting people with 3.5 GPA and 500 mcat scores (25 on the old scale).

MCAT & GPA scores do not always = quality. In fact, I'd argue that for a lot of people raising expectations on these two factors for admission simply means premeds spend more time and money to achieve good grades and a high MCAT score which can away from developing in the world as an actual person. It's difficult to develop a work ethic if you've never had a job because you had to study and/or take a prep class to prepare you for the high standards it takes to get into med school nowadays. Clearly anecdotal evidence but I can't tell you how many of my classmates excelled during preclinicals and are literally dragging themselves to the finish line of 3rd year because they have no idea how to interact with people or work with a team. Obviously this is my two cents and opinions will differ but I really don't think that doctors from 10 years ago are worse than doctors who are graduating today. It's definitely a different environment in healthcare than it was 10 years ago but using these arbitrary measures to say what is quality is just that - arbitrary. On the other hand I agree that there has to be a way to separate people out and right now MCAT and GPA is the best we've really got (although I admire the schools that opt for a more holistic admission policy and they haven't had any extra trouble with students being below par. They're still using the objective measures but also expanding criteria to include more than just numbers)

 

[W19]

Quality is most certainly rising every year.

It used to be ten years ago, anyone with a 3.3 gpa and a 23 mcat could get into a DO school. Now, you have ICOM, a school that opened up in the middle of the application cycle rejecting people with 3.5 GPA and 500 mcat scores (25 on the old scale).

The cohort of med students/applicants is probably smarter, which might be different than the quality of education med students is getting. Step1 questions in the 80s and even early 90s were extremely easy. Most of them were two-to-three sentences questions. Now some of these questions fit the whole computer screen; you have to scroll down to read the answer choice.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

The cohort of med students/applicants is probably smarter, which might be different than the quality of education med students is getting. Step1 questions in the 80s and even early 90s were extremely easy. Most of them were two-to-three sentences questions. Now some of these questions fit the whole computer screen; you have to scroll down to read the answer choice.

That’s what I mean by quality of applicants. I’ve watched med students and residents pass through and they definitely know more, learn faster than in the past. I often joke with my colleagues about if we could get in now if we applied because everyone applying is so ridiculously smart. So it makes sense to me that the exam questions would also get harder to meet that quality.



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[psychMDhopefully]

Quick question, would any of you in my position really try DO school? There is a newish DO school in my state and one of my mentors set it up so that they would take me, I wouldn't even really have to apply. All I can think about is all the debt I would accrue and having to start all over again.

 

[W19]

Quick question, would any of you in my position really try DO school? There is a newish DO school in my state and one of my mentors set it up so that they would take me, I wouldn't even really have to apply. All I can think about is all the debt I would accrue and having to start all over again.

I would without question, but you have to understand that only FM, pathology and possibly IM is in the card for you...

 

[intubesteak]

Do you have a clear plan of how you would approach things differently? Do you think your plan would make you into a student that will pass board exams from here on out? What do you think went wrong the first time? Some of your posts in step1 forums made it sound like you don't think that you have the ability to memorize enough to pass step. People have said that comlex is easier, but do you want to count on that? Best of luck with all of this; it sounds like you may have found a solution with the DO thing. It would be a very inspirational story if you can pull it off!

 

[W19]

I know someone who was dismissed at NOVA, went to ROSS, and is a practicing internist now...

 

[libertyyne]

I know someone who was dismissed at NOVA, went to ROSS, and is a practicing internist now...

still got to pass that USMLE tho.

 

[W19]

still got to pass that USMLE tho.

He does not have to take the USMLE. COMLEX is easier based on what I saw in COMBANK. I might be wrong about COMLEX, however.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

How much debt do you currently have? I'm a DO student so clearly I would vote yes. The first two years will be a breeze for you comparatively and you can really zone in on your boards issue in order to fix it. You would just have to put up with omm, but if it's the difference between being a doc or not, it's really not even a a second though, imo.

The DO school is an option, at this point in my life I’m not sure if it’s the best option. I have low 200k debt and I’m not getting any younger. I would be late 30s if/when I finished residency, and Id have to deal with the rigors of residency. Plus this entire experience has left me with a really negative impression of medicine, part of me is pissed because I got dismissed part of me is relieved I don’t have to put up with the abuse and hazing of medicine anymore. My other option was Anesthesia Assistant (AA) which is like a PA that does exclusively anesthesia. The Pay is the same as CRNA so I could potentially make 200k with overtime, call etc. and it only take 2 years. I don’t think I’m the type of person who absolutely has to be the guy in charge. Being a physician was my dream, but I am willing to let it go to save my mental and physical health. As far as passing the boards go, it would make sense that the COMLEX is slightly easier since DO students get in with slightly lower stats and board exam difficulty is probably adjusted for whatever cohort is taking the exam. I failed Step 1 by one point last time so I don’t think I would have much of a problem passing COMLEX, but you never know. Honestly I’m tired and AA seems like a more forgiving path, but right now I’m just trying to figure out what to do.

 

[libertyyne]

The DO school is an option, at this point in my life I’m not sure if it’s the best option. I have low 200k debt and I’m not getting any younger. I would be late 30s if/when I finished residency, and Id have to deal with the rigors of residency. Plus this entire experience has left me with a really negative impression of medicine, part of me is pissed because I got dismissed part of me is relieved I don’t have to put up with the abuse and hazing of medicine anymore. My other option was Anesthesia Assistant (AA) which is like a PA that does exclusively anesthesia. The Pay is the same as CRNA so I could potentially make 200k with overtime, call etc. and it only take 2 years. I don’t think I’m the type of person who absolutely has to be the guy in charge. Being a physician was my dream, but I am willing to let it go to save my mental and physical health. As far as passing the boards go, it would make sense that the COMLEX is slightly easier since DO students get in with slightly lower stats and board exam difficulty is probably adjusted for whatever cohort is taking the exam. I failed Step 1 by one point last time so I don’t think I would have much of a problem passing COMLEX, but you never know. Honestly I’m tired and AA seems like a more forgiving path, but right now I’m just trying to figure out what to do.

This seems like a reasonable course of action. If you still want to work with psych populations you could always do NP ->psych NP.

 

[ortnakas]

He does not have to take the USMLE. COMLEX is easier based on what I saw in COMBANK. I might be wrong about COMLEX, however.

Most of us do think COMLEX is easier than USMLE, but the DO pass rate for COMLEX isn't that much lower than the pass rate for USMLE (I don't have the numbers in front of me). If OP didn't pass USMLE after one attempt, that'd be one thing, but after four attempts, I don't like his/her odds on COMLEX, either.

OP, keep your chin up. I think your idea of AA (or another allied field, like respiratory therapy, occupational therapy, etc) is a good one.

 

[psychMDhopefully]

Most of us do think COMLEX is easier than USMLE, but the DO pass rate for COMLEX isn't that much lower than the pass rate for USMLE (I don't have the numbers in front of me). If OP didn't pass USMLE after one attempt, that'd be one thing, but after four attempts, I don't like his/her odds on COMLEX, either.

OP, keep your chin up. I think your idea of AA (or another allied field, like respiratory therapy, occupational therapy, etc) is a good one.

Small detail but I took step 1 3 times

 

[W19]

Most of us do think COMLEX is easier than USMLE, but the DO pass rate for COMLEX isn't that much lower than the pass rate for USMLE (I don't have the numbers in front of me). If OP didn't pass USMLE after one attempt, that'd be one thing, but after four attempts, I don't like his/her odds on COMLEX, either.

OP, keep your chin up. I think your idea of AA (or another allied field, like respiratory therapy, occupational therapy, etc) is a good one.

I don't think it a good option when AA can only practice in about 20 states... MRI technology can be a good option because one can make 6-figure salary easily, but it takes 3 years. However, you can do it almost for free because a lot community colleges have that program.

 

[libertyyne]

I don't think it a good one when AA can only practice in about 20 states... MRI technology can be a good option because one can make 6-figure salary easily, but that takes 3 years. But you can do it almost for free because a lot community colleges have that program.

****, I didnt know that MRI technologists made that much.

 

[W19]

****, I didnt know that MRI technologists made that much.

Obviously with some overtime here and there. My friend is getting $37+/hr in south FL and made 111k last year. Wish I can show you the text message.

 

[libertyyne]

Obviously with some overtime here and there. My friend is getting $37+/hr in south FL and made 111k last year. Wish I can show you the text message.

I believe you, I just never realized that it was possible. The ability to get the credentials at a CC only make this an even better deal.

 

[deleted407021]

I don't know what to say OP aside from this really, really sucks, and I'm sorry. I wish you the best of luck finding a good fit in the near future.

 

[W19]

I believe you, I just never realized that it was possible. The ability to get the credentials at a CC only make this an even better deal.

Beside that, the job is stress free according to him...

 

[Hopefulfuturedoc17]

Hi OP, I wanted to chime in here because I have a similar background. I was dismissed from a medical program before I matriculated to the medical school portion. It was awful. I spent a long time convincing myself I was never interested in medicine to make myself feel better, and long story short, it took me about 5 years to get back to a (low-end) competitive point to get back in to a program.

I can totally understand why at your age, trying to chase a MD/DO path again would feel like time and money wasted. I will say that I would look into cardiac perfusion in your case. That’s the route I would have went after my masters to pay off debt. It’s got a one of the highest income to debt ratios and you are very respected in your field. It’s also kind of a hidden gem—most students that were in my post bac program had never heard of it as an option (I didnt broadcast it though because this happened to be in the same city as a program that only took a few a year).

Please keep your head up. It took me a really long time to recover mentally and emotionally, and I still look at myself and see failure at times. I can tell you it definitely gets better though.

 

[siliso]

Cut your losses and find a new path forward.

 

[general987]

SORry to hear your situation OP. At my school we have someone that failed step 1 4x and the school allowed her to complete third year and proceed with taking step 1 again.