Should I give up?

[ineedhelpwithapp]

Hello,

For starters below are my stats.
1. 490/492/499/501/498-cancelled the exam twice so used up my lifetime limit.
2. uGPA: 2.8
3. SMP GPA: 3.7
4. 18 years of work experience
5. 4,300 volunteer hours working with low-income families
6. 300 ER volunteer hours
7. 60 shadowing hours
8. I believe I have a strong committee letter from my SMP

So I applied in 2018 with my 490 MCAT, a bit foolish and magical thinking at the time so it wasn't a surprise that I got rejected everywhere. I decided to take a year off and just focus on working and study for the retake but didn't seem to score high enough so I canceled my exam. Fast forward to 2019, I decided to apply to an SMP and was fortunate to get an acceptance. I did pretty decent on the SMP but could not perform well on the MCAT but thought I would have a chance with DO school with a better SMP GPA. I applied to all DO schools that don't screen for sub-3.0 and did not get a single interview. As a last resort, I applied to podiatry and was fortunate to gain acceptance but I can't seem to shake off the urge to one day practice medicine. Now, I find myself looking into Caribbean medical school as a chance to practice medicine. My interest is in primary care so family medicine would be an ideal specialty for me. I need some advice if I should just forget medicine altogether and just focus on podiatry? I understand the stigma of the Caribbean but is FM really that impossible coming from the caribbean?

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[Dave1980]

Yes you should give up. FM isn't impossible coming from the Caribbean but I have a strong feeling it is impossible for you with your history of severely underperforming on multiple choice tests.

Feel free to go to a Caribbean school but think you'll end up with 4 wasted years and 250k in loans.

 

[clairish]

To be honest, I would not recommend carib med school to anyone since there is a very high chance someone will end up with 4 years of futile effort and 300+ K debt. I think at this point, you should think about different pathway -- maybe other healthcare related jobs that can fulfill your dream and satisfying. For primary care, what about pa or np? I heard that they go into primary cares a lot. Or maybe you can try to apply other relatively new DO schools. Are you URM? you have nice work and volunteering experience; maybe applying to service oriented do schools along with pa/np/masters to other fields apps?

 

[Osteosaur]

You tried medicine and you can't ever compensate for your major deficit (MCAT). If you do this badly on the MCAT how do you think Step will turn out? its going P/F but will you pass? Who knows how this will impact carribean grads.

Do podiatry. Its not a bad job. People need their feet.

 

[Goro]

Yes, it's time for Plan B. Don't even think of going to the Caribbean!

Pod would be a good career choice

 

[clairish]

Yes, it's time for Plan B. Don't even think of going to the Caribbean!

Pod would be a good career choice

I have a question. Would you recommend carib med school to anyone ? If so, what kind of applicants?

 

[Goro]

I have a question. Would you recommend carib med school to anyone ? If so, what kind of applicants?

No, I would not recommend them to anyone. They are practitioners of educational malpractice

 

[clairish]

No, I would not recommend them to anyone. They are practitioners of educational malpractice

Thank you for the reply. I thought the same, but I have been seeing many people giving others(including to me) advice to go carib schools lately.. so I thought maybe I was wrong.

 

[Goro]

Thank you for the reply. I thought the same, but I have been seeing many people giving others(including to me) advice to go carib schools lately.. so I thought maybe I was wrong.

The people who give that bad advice or the sort who always focus on the smaller chances of success, and ignore the greater chances of failure, which will only increase as the number of us medical graduates increase over the next couple of years and we reach a critical mass of where we have fewer and fewer residency slots available for International Medical graduates

 

[ineedhelpwithapp]

Thank you for the advice. It seem I will be able to petition to take the exam one more time. I just need to bring my cars up then I might have a slim chance. So I might just pay for a mcat course. Do any of you have a recommendation?

 

[Goro]

Thank you for the advice. It seem I will be able to petition to take the exam one more time. I just need to bring my cars up then I might have a slim chance. So I might just pay for a mcat course. Do any of you have a recommendation?

You're a 5x exam taker. Be realistic

 

[ineedhelpwithapp]

You're a 5x exam taker. Be realistic

My SMP guaranteed an interview if we can get 505 and up. I had a classmate who took the exam 6x and got in so I just want to maximize my chance.

 

[LondonVibes]

I think it’s over. If you’re being granted an 8th attempt you can go for it, but you’d still have 5 prior MCAT scores on the record. I should note that you are likely to be happier if you just move on from medicine. While medicine is the best job in the world, it is just a job and you can find fulfillment in other life areas.

 

[Dave1980]

You're a 5x exam taker. Be realistic

7x taker. 2x canceler.

 

[Dave1980]

My SMP guaranteed an interview if we can get 505 and up. I had a classmate who took the exam 6x and got in so I just want to maximize my chance.

Guaranteed interview will be a formality on the way to not accepting you. Move on OP.

 

[Faha]

Which DO schools did you apply to in this past cycle ?

 

[Goro]

Guaranteed interview will be a formality on the way to not accepting you. Move on OP.

This is very true, and occurs with my SMP

 

[LondonVibes]

Guaranteed interview will be a formality on the way to not accepting you. Move on OP.

I think that if the OP has an attempt sitting there and a guaranteed interview, I would take both of those opportunities, especially with a 6th time MCAT taker having already been accepted, but OP needs a back up plan to. Maybe the plan could be continuing whatever OPs current employment is, or it could be the pursuit of PA or nursing certifications. Like I said before, things are much easier if OP can detach themselves emotionally from having medicine be a need and make it a sort of unlikely goal.

 

[I Drink Riesling]

I like podiatry; the podiatrists I shadowed practiced evidence based medicine and patients left happier than when they came in through the doors. Sure, it has its imperfections, but all fields do. You will still learn a lot of medicine through the didactic, clinic, externships, and residency, just more focused on the lower extremities.

 

[El-Rami]

I have a question. Would you recommend carib med school to anyone ? If so, what kind of applicants?

If someone had their parents pay for school it probably wouldn't be a terrible option. Their base match rate is about 50-60% and they weed out students during preclinicals.

Your application is likely competitive for podiatry due to your strong SMP performance. Also could be worth looking into PA and/or AA. Generally AA wants a bare minimum of 500 on the MCAT to be competitive (they really want to see like 505), but you have the option of doing the GRE and not have to provide the MCAT scores. Get at least 310 on the GRE. Your undergrad GPA is below the minimum for most PA and AA schools, but I believe their CAS calculates an overall GPA that will factor in your performance on the SMP. You would likely have a shot. What's your work experience in? If it's patient-care related I think you have a good chance with PA.

495 is competitive for podiatry.

 

[El-Rami]

The people who give that bad advice or the sort who always focus on the smaller chances of success, and ignore the greater chances of failure, which will only increase as the number of us medical graduates increase over the next couple of years and we reach a critical mass of where we have fewer and fewer residency slots available for International Medical graduates

Not that I would ever recommend becoming an IMG and trying to get a US residency, but there are serious legislative efforts at the moment to add a significant number of residency positions over the next 5-7 years. Last year 1000 positions were approved in Congress, and they are currently looking at two bills, one adding 1600, and the other adding 14,000.

I would not expect residency positions to remain stagnant, especially after COVID.

 

[ineedhelpwithapp]

Which DO schools did you apply to in this past cycle ?

I applied to wcucom, Pikeville, all lecom, acom, asoma, all pcom, noorda, and DMUCOM. Basically any school that doesn't screen for sub 3.0

 

[ineedhelpwithapp]

Also, as for the Caribbean I have the extra money to waste thanks to all the meme stocks saga I was able to turned my investment into a couple millions. However, I'm more afraid of wasted time there and won't be able to practice medicine. It seem the logical way is to take my podiatry acceptance but I worry I might not be happy with the career choice and end up abandoning it altogether while taking a good spot away from a more deserving person.

 

[crandmat]

Also, as for the Caribbean I have the extra money to waste thanks to all the meme stocks saga I was able to turned my investment into a couple millions. However, I'm more afraid of wasted time there and won't be able to practice medicine. It seem the logical way is to take my podiatry acceptance but I worry I might not be happy with the career choice and end up abandoning it altogether while taking a good spot away from a more deserving person.

Couple Millions?? what are you even doing on here when you could live comfortably on that for the rest of your life.

smells fishy

 

[Faha]

I applied to wcucom, Pikeville, all lecom, acom, asoma, all pcom, noorda, and DMUCOM. Basically any school that doesn't screen for sub 3.0

I applied to wcucom, Pikeville, all lecom, acom, asoma, all pcom, noorda, and DMUCOM. Basically any school that doesn't screen for sub 3.0

You could try one more application cycle. There are many DO schools where the MCAT median is in the 498 to 502 range and your last 3 MCAT scores were 499, 501 and 498. There are some schools that have a hard screen for GPA such as CUSOM and the VCOM schools. For other schools with a sub 3.0 GPA screen you could contact the school after you submit your application and direct their attention to your 3.7 SMP. For schools l suggest all these:
ICOM
BCOM
Noorda-COM
UIWSOM
WCU-COM
ACOM
ARCOM
NYIT-AR
LMU-DCOM
PCOM Georgia and South Georgia
LUCOM
WVSOM
UP-KYCOM
LECOM (all schools)
Apply in July and submit all your secondaries by August.

 

[ineedhelpwithapp]

Couple Millions?? what are you even doing on here when you could live comfortably on that for the rest of your life.

smells fishy

Money doesn't buy happiness lol. I'm in my 30s and have live life but becoming a physician is a life long dream of mine.

 

[ineedhelpwithapp]

You could try one more application cycle. There are many DO schools where the MCAT median is in the 498 to 502 range and your last 3 MCAT scores were 499, 501 and 498. There are some schools that have a hard screen for GPA such as CUSOM and the VCOM schools. For other schools with a sub 3.0 GPA screen you could contact the school after you submit your application and direct their attention to your 3.7 SMP. For schools l suggest all these:
ICOM
BCOM
Noorda-COM
UIWSOM
WCU-COM
ACOM
ARCOM
NYIT-AR
LMU-DCOM
PCOM Georgia and South Georgia
LUCOM
WVSOM
UP-KYCOM
LECOM (all schools)
Apply in July and submit all your secondaries by August.

I applied to majority of the COM you listed but didn't receive an interview. Since then I have only added another 200 volunteer hours, do you think this cycle would be different?

 

[Faha]

I applied to majority of the COM you listed but didn't receive an interview. Since then I have only added another 200 volunteer hours, do you think this cycle would be different?

Applying to the majority of those schools is fewer than all of those schools. Also some schools are expanding class size and there may be a new DO school opening up in Wichita later this year.

 

[El-Rami]

Also, as for the Caribbean I have the extra money to waste thanks to all the meme stocks saga I was able to turned my investment into a couple millions. However, I'm more afraid of wasted time there and won't be able to practice medicine. It seem the logical way is to take my podiatry acceptance but I worry I might not be happy with the career choice and end up abandoning it altogether while taking a good spot away from a more deserving person.

Well, if you have the money to spend, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try. If I were in your shoes, I would pursue something like AA. I believe it is more lucrative than doing family medicine, for example. Of course, maybe you'd rather be a primary care physician (and there's certainly nothing wrong with that!) but something that takes less time and gives you more money would be very hard to ignore if I were in your shoes.

You are right about podiatry. If it isn't something you'd enjoy, I wouldn't do it. However, you should put serious consideration into going to the DPM program.

 

[ineedhelpwithapp]

Applying to the majority of those schools is fewer than all of those schools. Also some schools are expanding class size and there may be a new DO school opening up in Wichita later this year.

Thank you, I will apply to the recommended school and retake the mcat.

 

[AvsPearTree]

Money doesn't buy happiness lol. I'm in my 30s and have live life but becoming a physician is a life long dream of mine.

so i do have a honest question, but if becoming a physician is your life long dream, why did you not put in the effort to do what actually needs to be done to get into a medical school? As in constantly retaking the MCAT while showing no improvement? Just seeing your MCAT makes me feel like you never actually tried, you're very impulsive, or maybe you just don't care? To say you're not a good test taker isn't going to do you any favors, what do you think medical school is?

 

[ineedhelpwithapp]

so i do have a honest question, but if becoming a physician is your life long dream, why did you not put in the effort to do what actually needs to be done to get into a medical school? As in constantly retaking the MCAT while showing no improvement? Just seeing your MCAT makes me feel like you never actually tried, you're very impulsive, or maybe you just don't care? To say you're not a good test taker isn't going to do you any favors, what do you think medical school is?

Having a dream is one thing but being financially stable to help my family was my top priority. I came from a refugee background so it wasn't easy to focus on academia. I work 50 to 60 hours a week while caring for my parents and my own family so to say I never care or impulsive? Please take the judgement elsewhere because I came here for advice not judgement.

 

[Keepcalmpremd]

Your approach to the MCAT needs to change. What haven’t you done? Also, don’t take the exam until you’re scoring 5-10 points above your goal score. Your practice exams will reflect your readiness. I also recommend one-on-one tutoring over an MCAT prep course. Check out integrative tutoring. They have 1-1 sessions and small group classes/review sessions

 

[FrederickFlores]

Hello,

For starters below are my stats.
1. 490/492/499/501/498-cancelled the exam twice so used up my lifetime limit.
2. uGPA: 2.8
3. SMP GPA: 3.7
4. 18 years of work experience
5. 4,300 volunteer hours working with low-income families
6. 300 ER volunteer hours
7. 60 shadowing hours
8. I believe I have a strong committee letter from my SMP

So I applied in 2018 with my 490 MCAT, a bit foolish and magical thinking at the time so it wasn't a surprise that I got rejected everywhere. I decided to take a year off and just focus on working and study for the retake but didn't seem to score high enough so I canceled my exam. Fast forward to 2019, I decided to apply to an SMP and was fortunate to get an acceptance. I did pretty decent on the SMP but could not perform well on the MCAT but thought I would have a chance with DO school with a better SMP GPA. I applied to all DO schools that don't screen for sub-3.0 and did not get a single interview. As a last resort, I applied to podiatry and was fortunate to gain acceptance but I can't seem to shake off the urge to one day practice medicine. Now, I find myself looking into Caribbean medical school as a chance to practice medicine. My interest is in primary care so family medicine would be an ideal specialty for me. I need some advice if I should just forget medicine altogether and just focus on podiatry? I understand the stigma of the Caribbean but is FM really that impossible coming from the caribbean?

Please don’t give up. I know my answer is going to be in conflict to others here, but here we go. I am a 46 yr old registered nurse who has wanted to be a physician my whole life. Had a rough 20’s and finally made it into nursing. I applied this year at 46 with uGPA 3.38, grad GPA 3.99, MCAT 495, 10,000 hours clinical experience. I was accepted to 3 DO schools and will be attending ATSU-SOMA. I was fully prepared to go Caribbean if I didn’t get in. I work with lots of IMG’s and they are amazing docs. They may have to go through the match twice…but they almost always make it…especially in FM/IM.. primary care. Go for it!!!!

 

[LizzyM]

Ask yourself why you want to be a doctor. Really probe for the deep answer. Then ask yourself why being a podiatrist four years from now (assuming you are holding an admission offer for classes starting later this year) would not meet your desire to practice medicine.

You are a long, long, long shot to succeed in a Caribbean school or to be admitted to a DO program. Take the offer you have and run with it. As the boomers get older the demand for podiatrists will be huge.

 

[oldhag]

Truthfully, just looking at the fact that you have made little to no improvement after taking the MCAT five times (not to mention the two cancellations) I would say yes. If you are struggling this much just to pass the screening test for medical school, actual medical school will be a waste of time and money. You should look into maybe becoming a primary care PA/NP/etc.

 

[uberconfuzzled]

Podiatrist here. Somehow this thread popped up in my emails.

I did well in undergrad (gpa: 3.8) and scored ok on the mcat-at the time the grading was different and I scored a 30.
i was given a lot of poor advice at the time and was told that I would not get into MD school and that becoming surgeon as a DO was near impossible. I didn’t want to waste any more time, so I jumped to podiatry school.
I did well and now make a very good living and overall enjoy what I do.

But I will tell you that while podiatry school is easy to get in-it is not easy to complete. We had a high drop out rate each year with people who could not handle the classes or the exams. My guess is the schools make a lot of money off of people who try to get in with low stats and then slowly weed them out after they’ve collected their money. Of the ones who did finish, an even smaller amount went on to reputable residencies and of those, even smaller amount were able to land higher paying jobs in larger orthopedic or multi specialist groups.

So be careful. just make sure that this is what you want to do . though from your posts it sounds like you’re using podiatry as a last resort because you did really bad on your mcat and you don’t seem to really care do it. these are the students who end up dropping out or getting a ****ty job later on.

 

[Osteosaur]

One bad MCAT is a learning experience. Two scores is maybe some bad luck. Once you get to five scores with no improvement you can't really spin an excuse about work or life because you haven't improved, adapted, or sought help.

If you "made millions" off game-stop, and somehow took the MCAT 5 times with no improvement, this honestly sounds like a troll thread. There is always some guy coming in with histrionic posts looking for desperate advice.

 

[AvsPearTree]

Having a dream is one thing but being financially stable to help my family was my top priority. I came from a refugee background so it wasn't easy to focus on academia. I work 50 to 60 hours a week while caring for my parents and my own family so to say I never care or impulsive? Please take the judgement elsewhere because I came here for advice not judgement.

This is not judgement but actually trying to take a critical eye and asking an honest question. I am fully understand trying to juggle life while trying to pursuing medical school (in the navy, have a family, taking classes, and studied for the MCAT). You managed to do well in a SMP but failed numerous times to improve on the MCAT so how can you justify that? Would it not be greatly concerning if you were sitting on an adcom and saw that? You have a route to becoming a doctor through podiatry. Why is that not good enough for you? Do you think podiatry is below you? They are still very much doctors who have significant impact on peoples lives. You have a route to this dream you claim to have, but you seem to greedy or selfish or something to take it.

 

[YCAGA]

9% chance that OP is not a troll. NW of a "couple million" and is debating if they should go to the Carib after taking the MCAT 7 times. Sure...

 

[Meowster007]

If you wanna be a physician - don't quit.... Fight harder you did impressive in SMP.. fight my man

 

[nontradpremed1]

I would say don't give up yet. You scored 501 once. I would apply to all DO schools again and apply with your SMP scores which are great at 3.7
Also consider accommodations if you suffer from PTSD, depression, anxiety, ADHD. Life as a refugee can be hard and may be you are disadvantaged because of that. A neuropsych test with a clinical psychologist should help with that.

If you have already shown SMP scores to med schools and did not get in then may be don't apply there are many other ways to practice medicine. One I would recommend is a direct entry masters in nursing and becoming a NP. This does not require the GRE for many schools at least Rush here in Chicago, IL. You are likely to perform worse on GRE. PA would be the next

If you do want to apply Caribbean instead make sure you take an MCAT prep course. My recommendation is Complete MCAT Course by Jack Westin. Why ?
You can't take another official MCAT but you could take a practice test to make sure you scoring in 508+ range. If you can hit then Carribean could be a good idea otherwise it ain't great.


Good luck to you.

 

[Meowster007]

I would say don't give up yet. You scored 501 once. I would apply to all DO schools again and apply with your SMP scores which are great at 3.7
Also consider accommodations if you suffer from PTSD, depression, anxiety, ADHD. Life as a refugee can be hard and may be you are disadvantaged because of that. A neuropsych test with a clinical psychologist should help with that.

If you have already shown SMP scores to med schools and did not get in then may be don't apply there are many other ways to practice medicine. One I would recommend is a direct entry masters in nursing and becoming a NP. This does not require the GRE for many schools at least Rush here in Chicago, IL. You are likely to perform worse on GRE. PA would be the next

If you do want to apply Caribbean instead make sure you take an MCAT prep course. My recommendation is Complete MCAT Course by Jack Westin. Why ?
You can't take another official MCAT but you could take a practice test to make sure you scoring in 508+ range. If you can hit then Carribean could be a good idea otherwise it ain't great.


Good luck to you.

Agree with this!!!

 

[wannabedoc77]

Honestly OP this is pretty good advice.

Listen up everyone cause I have a huge thorough rant and story that OP needs to hear...

I know a lot of people on this website are against Caribbean schools and rightfully so. What people don't realize is that it's not necessarily the Caribbean schools themselves (kind of) that are a huge problem but it is the people that go to them. A lot of people that go to the Caribbean tend to have low grades and work ethic combined with poor judgment, so even if you can become a physician from the Caribbean (although I would only guarantee you could do FM or Internal, every other specialty is realistically impossible from the Caribbean) many people do not understand that they will have to work 3 times as hard as people in the United States to end up matching to residency from the Caribbean. In addition, Caribbean schools don't really care if you fail out, they just want your money and the school committee can be kinda crappy and can have no empathy towards their students, meaning you also have to jump through hoops on top of how hard med school is. This means going psychotic on that little island and blocking out everyone and everything for 2 years of your life in addition to the months you will be studying for Step 1 and 2. People may disagree with this... but the Caribbean is seriously a dream maker if your ambitions to practice medicine are that huge. Looking at St. George, the number of students that match from those that come into the school initially is around 50-60%. They will blur this number on their website and say they have a 90% match rate, but that's only the match rate of the students that didn't already fail out within the first 2-4 years. But even still, that's HALF of the people that come in that are becoming physicians and achieving their dream job. But it comes with huge risks of being isolated on a small island in a third-world country pretty much. You have to be psychologically tough to navigate through it, and studying medicine is already hard in a first-world country. OP, if you really wanna be a physician go for it buddy, but I would heavily consider taking a simulated MCAT to make sure you can hit those high marks (508+). I'm rooting for you man. No one should be told to give up on their dreams, but you have to be realistic with yourself. The scores you were getting on the MCAT WILL FAIL you out of Caribbean med school. You need to amp up your work ethic hard and prove that you really have the devotion for it. If you decide to go this way, it will undoubtedly be the hardest part of your life. For reference, my sister is now an attending physician and she finished a Caribbean school and matched around 2015. She says the hard work was worth it, but YOU HAVE to know what you are signing up for, cause it can be fatal for your finances if you don't make it out. She had FOUR personal friends that she made on that island that failed classes or failed to match. I think she had more friends fail out than those who made it. It is seriously like you're going to war. But I'm gonna hope you make it out a physician bud. My sister also said it was her dream job and I'm so happy she applied herself and made it. That's why I'm very passionate about this, but long story short, you have to be a psychopath and be willing to devote your livelihood to passing your classes and getting a STEP 2 score of 230 maybe even 240+. This will undoubtedly be the hardest part of your life, and if you don't think you or your family can handle it, then its not worth it.