Should I go into Radiology?

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JIMMYJOHNivy

Arimasan
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My dream is to be able to make ~$350k while working 40-45 hours doing what I love, which is sitting in a room by myself thinking about anatomy/physiology (i.e. reading scans).

Is radiology the right field for me? I feel like it's too good to be true.

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Are you a medical student? Have you shadowed a radiologist?

Being a radiologist is really not as intellectual as you think.
 
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Even the most intellectual subject becomes monotonous after doing it 1000 times.
 
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But will he fulfill his dream of making 350k at 40-45 hrs a week?
 
You’re probably not making 350k unless you’re in academics
 
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I kind of agree with OP's "too good to be true" sentiment, I feel like there must be some huge catch I'm missing.
So if it's boring, monotonous work, who "loves" radiology?
 
It's only boring to the extent that most patients have common manifestations of common diseases, which applies to every specialty. It's less of a problem in radiology because each radiologist 'sees' more patients in total so a few interesting ones appear more frequently, and fewer of those everyday problems that do not warrant imaging.

It's only monotonous to the extent that you don't have to engage in many of the emotionally challenging tasks other specialties deal with much of their time, including care coordination, counseling, dealing with difficult patients and families, arguing in peer-to-peer reviews with insurance or benefits managers.

The catch is simply that, in focusing personal interactions to other physicians and damping down the emotional salience of those infrequent interactions with patients, you won't get the emotional upswings that come with successful patient interactions or being the master care coordinator and ultimate decision maker.

Otherwise, radiology is great for those who like to think about and know a lot about medicine.
 
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You’re probably not making 350k unless you’re in academics

I have seen some private practice offers at around 350. Probably because they were in competitive markets.
 
That’s a starting offer. Job postings don’t reveal partner salary

Although 350 is actually pretty good for partner track, so partner salary may not be stellar. That’s how corporate models work like radpartners and those aren’t real private practices
 
That’s a starting offer. Job postings don’t reveal partner salary

Although 350 is actually pretty good for partner track, so partner salary may not be stellar. That’s how corporate models work like radpartners and those aren’t real private practices

Are you saying Radiologists typically make more than 350k or less than 350k?

Are the medians online reflective of starting salaries or partner salaries?
 
Average salary is 450-500 for all radiologists, even including the low end ivory tower academic places that pay dirt.

A good private practice should pay a total package 500 easy to its partners.

Those willing to work in BFE can still approach 700 - 800

Median salaries online are probably skewed lower towards new hires, because older rads tend to be hush hush for fear of more salary cuts.

But average salary will probably start to drop as more naive fellows take corporate jobs. That’s why I always say to not work for radpartners, mednax, envision, etc. you will lose boatloads of money over a real private practice
 
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Average salary is 450-500 for all radiologists, even including the low end ivory tower academic places that pay dirt.

A good private practice should pay a total package 500 easy to its partners.

Those willing to work in BFE can still approach 700 - 800

Median salaries online are probably skewed lower towards new hires, because older rads tend to be hush hush for fear of more salary cuts.

But average salary will probably start to drop as more naive fellows take corporate jobs. That’s why I always say to not work for radpartners, mednax, envision, etc. you will lose boatloads of money over a real private practice

And this is with a 40-50 hour average work week?

Also what's BFE?
 
Yea, I work 45ish hours a week, plus call, not including vacation and days off
 
Yea, I work 45ish hours a week, plus call, not including vacation and days off

Why isn't radiology more competitive? Relatively cush residency (50-60 hours), ~45 hours/week, 400k+, insane vacation (12 weeks off!), don't have to listen to patients complain, can work from home, get to work with cool machines/computers etc.

I feel like I'm missing something. Again...this just seems too good to be true. There's gotta be a reason why it isn't as competitive as other fields (derm, ortho etc.), is there?
 
Before PACS ,radiology sounded like a miserable field. Nothing but fluoro, reading x rays off a backlit viewbox, doing IVP and craptastic mammos. CTs and MRIs were read on x ray sheets split into tiny 16x16 images. Everything changed with PACS and improved CT/MR technology 15 years ago. Radiology immediately became competitive, one of the most competitive in medicine.

Then, 2008 financial crisis hit, which perfectly coincided with feeling the pain of the 2005 deficit reduction act, which decimated radiologist reimbursement per study (20-75% cuts per study). Unfortunately, those radiologists were used to a certain lifestyle. So rather than accept the pay cut, they decided to work harder rather than hire more. 2009-2014 were pitiful for radiology job market, which cooled off the competitiveness of the field. The market rebounded now because imaging has continued to explode and those that delayed retirement during the financial crisis have now retired. But now, we are entering the era of automation and AI, and radiology looks like an easy target on paper, and most AI companies are focused on radiology. I think this is making the field a nonstarter for some people, even though most who have actual experience in radiology would tell you these worries are quite unrealistic in our lifetimes. But every field has their own doomsday scenario; they are just an unlikely in their fields.

Another main reason. Some people wouldn't be happy sitting in front of a computer all day and not interacting with patients. I get it; I don't fault them. Look at the poster last night, implying that he felt uncomfortable calling himself a doctor now that he's a radiologist. Dictating words on a computer while scrolling a mouse wheel is not what most people envisioned when they said they wanted to save lives when they were wide eyed college students. This field is not for people with egos.
 
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The nature of the work plus the recent influx of Corporate groups that pay per study (or RVU) can lead to an assembly-line type of experience. This may turn students off. What medical students often don't realize is that many fields are also becoming RVU driven and control of medicine has been taken over by administrators with little medical background (see the Moral injury thread in the allopathic forum ZdoggMD youtube viral clip). The rare exceptions remain derm, ortho, n-surg, plastics. Also, the Corporate groups seem to have trouble recruiting, and most radiology graduates with a brain will take the partnership track PP (or stable academic job) over the Envisions/V-Rads/Mednax/RP ("Radiology Partners") of the world.
 
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Will be interesting to see who ends up getting the better of the tug-of-war between Venture Capital Corporate vs. Traditional Private Practice Radiology in the next decade.
 
Before PACS ,radiology sounded like a miserable field. Nothing but fluoro, reading x rays off a backlit viewbox, doing IVP and craptastic mammos. CTs and MRIs were read on x ray sheets split into tiny 16x16 images. Everything changed with PACS and improved CT/MR technology 15 years ago. Radiology immediately became competitive, one of the most competitive in medicine.

Then, 2008 financial crisis hit, which perfectly coincided with feeling the pain of the 2005 deficit reduction act, which decimated radiologist reimbursement per study (20-75% cuts per study). Unfortunately, those radiologists were used to a certain lifestyle. So rather than accept the pay cut, they decided to work harder rather than hire more. 2009-2014 were pitiful for radiology job market, which cooled off the competitiveness of the field. The market rebounded now because imaging has continued to explode and those that delayed retirement during the financial crisis have now retired. But now, we are entering the era of automation and AI, and radiology looks like an easy target on paper, and most AI companies are focused on radiology. I think this is making the field a nonstarter for some people, even though most who have actual experience in radiology would tell you these worries are quite unrealistic in our lifetimes. But every field has their own doomsday scenario; they are just an unlikely in their fields.

Another main reason. Some people wouldn't be happy sitting in front of a computer all day and not interacting with patients. I get it; I don't fault them. Look at the poster last night, implying that he felt uncomfortable calling himself a doctor now that he's a radiologist. Dictating words on a computer while scrolling a mouse wheel is not what most people envisioned when they said they wanted to save lives when they were wide eyed college students. This field is not for people with egos.

So I take it AI isn't really a threat then?

Do you think AI could possibly make radiology even more lucrative in the coming years (since radiologists will be able to handle higher volume)?
 
Your guess is as good as mine.

But realistically, they’ve been pumping millions and millions of dollars into this technology for 6 years and we’ve seen next to nothing. Some questionable studies in open access and non peer reviewed journals that say show AI can find a pneumothorax or a pneumonia. Ok so worst case scenario, the computer managed to find the white stuff or dark stuff. What about the rest of a chest x Ray? Maybe another 10 years they’ll also be able to comment on the lung nodule, pulmonary edema, pleural effusions, rib fractures, etc. and then maybe another 5-10 years before they realize radiologists aren’t needed, and manage to get over the litigation/malpractice hurdle and replace us for chest x rays

So worst case, we’ve lost chest x rays in 2 decade . a single image. One that pays dirt for reimbursement.

What’s their time frame on a ct? With 1000+ images in 3 planes, windowed in multiple different ways?
 
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Are Radia and other giant groups (with 100+ radiologists) part of the "corporate buyout" scheme mentioned earlier or are they still esteemed private practices that one should aim to join?
 
I don't believe Radia pays Radiologists per RVU produced, so no.
 
that Pay structure is awfully similar, granted a little better, than most radpartners offers.

Wonder if it’s a tiered partnership, where there are partners and then there are “partners”
 
Why isn't radiology more competitive? Relatively cush residency (50-60 hours), ~45 hours/week, 400k+, insane vacation (12 weeks off!), don't have to listen to patients complain, can work from home, get to work with cool machines/computers etc.

I feel like I'm missing something. Again...this just seems too good to be true. There's gotta be a reason why it isn't as competitive as other fields (derm, ortho etc.), is there?

There is substantial interest because of the reasons you outlined but competition is a function of both medical student interest and available spots. There are many available spots in DR (1088) compared to the number of positions available annually in the specialties that have higher Step 1 averages than DR: ortho (755), derm (477), ENT (328), plastics (172), neurosurg (232), rad onc (207). In an educational environment in which many (most?) schools do not require a radiology clerkship, where radiology clerkships do not integrate students in to the clinical workflow, and non-radiologists do much of the imaging-related teaching to students on other clerkships, you cannot drum up enough interest as the largest specialties of IM, FM, peds, OB/GYN, general surgery, and psychiatry. Why aren't EM and anesthesiology more competitive (putting aside concerns of lifestyle)? Similar reasons: big specialty, inconsistent student exposure.
 
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