Should I meet with PI before quitting?

[Nerdeka]

---

Members do not see this ad.

So I had to cancel a meeting between a postdoc and me pretty last second because of an issue I could only get resolved M-F and it was Friday.. I take full responsibility for this cancellation.

2 hours before the meeting they said it was okay that I cancelled (It takes me 30 min to get there, I asked for permission to reschedule. I didn't just tell them I was cancelling). However, out of nowhere hours after he sent me an email hours later that pretty much pissed me off. I'm sure this email was bcced to the PI and it basically threatened me saying I cancel all the time (I cancelled far less than they do) and I was going to be observing something important.

This just confused the **** out of me. I asked if I could come during break to fix something I had done wrong and they just told me to come Friday instead because they want to be there when I am (huge issue for me, I can't get ANYTHING done). I'm pretty much sure I will be leaving.. But, should I meet with the PI first? I love the PI, lab, and the other postdocs I work for. This person, who is technically responsible for me is a nightmare.

My Issues:
1. I get texts (unprofessionally imo, especially when they bitched me out for texting them once) all the time.
2. I get urgent emails that are so panicky for no reason (for example, 3 in an hour period when I'm in class and can't respond).
3. I have gotten yelled at for not doing things I have done. It's super demoralizing.
4. I can't get as much done as I would like because I am only allowed to be there when they are. This is ironic because everything I have done was not taught/shown/instructed by this person yet they demand they have to be there when I am.
5. They cancel all the time. I have the immune system of a God compared to this person.

 

[Promethean]

Ah... this is a research opportunity where you are an undergrad getting experience for a med school app, yes?

Sure. Meet with the PI, if you have the opportunity to do so.

Don't go in bad mouthing the postdoc. You can say everything you need to say in a very professional manner. Your language and demeanor matter a lot when you are presenting a problem like this with another member of a team of which you are a part. If you are too informal or openly judgmental of another person with whom the PI has a working relationship, all you are definitely communicating is that there is a problem... and that it is as likely that you are the source of it as the other person involved.

Focus, not on your needs, feelings, etc, but on what matters to the person you are speaking to. The PI cares about the mission, the research, the reason that everyone has come together to try to accomplish something. Speak to that, and you will have their ear. Like this:

"I'm concerned about a situation which is impacting my ability to contribute, and I'd like to make you aware of it and to seek your counsel on how best to resolve the matter. I'm having some conflict with this postdoc, whether due to problems with communication style or personality, I'm not sure. (Explain one or two of your biggest conflicts with the postdoc.) It bothers me that these issues are getting in the way of me being able to give as much to the project as I would like to do, and I'd considered whether I ought to withdraw from the lab entirely so as to avoid distracting others from the work at hand. First though, I wanted to bring it to you, and see if you might have some guidance to offer, since I love the lab and would love to find a way to continue to be a part of it."

Maybe the PI will know about the postdoc's personality because others have brought similar concerns. Maybe they will have some solution to offer, like having you report to someone else. Or, maybe they will see you as the source of the drama and let you leave. You still have a lot more to gain by trying than by leaving without a conversation. Including some experience in having conversations like this, since this won't be the last time you have to work with a difficult person, and not every work situation is so easy to walk away from.

 

[Nerdeka]

Ah... this is a research opportunity where you are an undergrad getting experience for a med school app, yes?

Sure. Meet with the PI, if you have the opportunity to do so.

Don't go in bad mouthing the postdoc. You can say everything you need to say in a very professional manner. Your language and demeanor matter a lot when you are presenting a problem like this with another member of a team of which you are a part. If you are too informal or openly judgmental of another person with whom the PI has a working relationship, all you are definitely communicating is that there is a problem... and that it is as likely that you are the source of it as the other person involved.

Focus, not on your needs, feelings, etc, but on what matters to the person you are speaking to. The PI cares about the mission, the research, the reason that everyone has come together to try to accomplish something. Speak to that, and you will have their ear. Like this:

"I'm concerned about a situation which is impacting my ability to contribute, and I'd like to make you aware of it and to seek your counsel on how best to resolve the matter. I'm having some conflict with this postdoc, whether due to problems with communication style or personality, I'm not sure. (Explain one or two of your biggest conflicts with the postdoc.) It bothers me that these issues are getting in the way of me being able to give as much to the project as I would like to do, and I'd considered whether I ought to withdraw from the lab entirely so as to avoid distracting others from the work at hand. First though, I wanted to bring it to you, and see if you might have some guidance to offer, since I love the lab and would love to find a way to continue to be a part of it."

Maybe the PI will know about the postdoc's personality because others have brought similar concerns. Maybe they will have some solution to offer, like having you report to someone else. Or, maybe they will see you as the source of the drama and let you leave. You still have a lot more to gain by trying than by leaving without a conversation. Including some experience in having conversations like this, since this won't be the last time you have to work with a difficult person, and not every work situation is so easy to walk away from.

Thank you for the advice. People do know about him and his err... "Type A"ness. I obviously don't speak so defensively with him, if anything I apologize, but I feel like my constant apologizing makes it seem like I'm such an inconvenience. :/

 

[Promethean]

Thank you for the advice. People do know about him and his err... "Type A"ness. I obviously don't speak so defensively with him, if anything I apologize, but I feel like my constant apologizing makes it seem like I'm such an inconvenience. :/

I've recently learned not to apologize when saying thank you works better.

Not "I'm sorry that I needed to reschedule." but "Thank you for being so understanding about this unexpected schedule change."

You will find that you can always find something appropriate to thank someone else for, and that doing so makes them feel better about the situation than if you just offer apologies. "I'm sorry" doesn't help unless you are saying that you know you did something wrong and won't do it again. If you are using it just as a social lubricant, to acknowledge that the other person has exhibited patience with a situation, thanking them for that is better.

Protip: If someone hasn't been terribly patient, but you thank them for it any way, you inspire them to actually be more patient. It isn't insincere... you are thanking them for being as patient as they have been. They could have reacted worse than they did, but they chose not to, and acknowledging that builds a bridge to help them get to where you'd like them to be. And if they choose to be less of what you have praised them for, then they really are the jerk and you both know it.

 

[ortnakas]

I've recently learned not to apologize when saying thank you works better.

Not "I'm sorry that I needed to reschedule." but "Thank you for being so understanding about this unexpected schedule change."

You will find that you can always find something appropriate to thank someone else for, and that doing so makes them feel better about the situation than if you just offer apologies. "I'm sorry" doesn't help unless you are saying that you know you did something wrong and won't do it again. If you are using it just as a social lubricant, to acknowledge that the other person has exhibited patience with a situation, thanking them for that is better.

This is solid advice for life in general.

 

[Shirafune]

"I'm concerned about a situation which is impacting my ability to contribute, and I'd like to make you aware of it and to seek your counsel on how best to resolve the matter. I'm having some conflict with this postdoc, whether due to problems with communication style or personality, I'm not sure. (Explain one or two of your biggest conflicts with the postdoc.) It bothers me that these issues are getting in the way of me being able to give as much to the project as I would like to do, and I'd considered whether I ought to withdraw from the lab entirely so as to avoid distracting others from the work at hand. First though, I wanted to bring it to you, and see if you might have some guidance to offer, since I love the lab and would love to find a way to continue to be a part of it."

Maybe the PI will know about the postdoc's personality because others have brought similar concerns. Maybe they will have some solution to offer, like having you report to someone else. Or, maybe they will see you as the source of the drama and let you leave. You still have a lot more to gain by trying than by leaving without a conversation. Including some experience in having conversations like this, since this won't be the last time you have to work with a difficult person, and not every work situation is so easy to walk away from.

Pretty much word your conservation just like this. As you'll see, scientists can be some of the most finicky people and sometimes you'll never understand how some of them think. Nevertheless, you should always try to resolve conflicts amicably just so you don't burn any bridges.

Your PI is the biggest boss and, as such, is responsible for sorting out/mediating workplace disputes. Perhaps you can work independently on a project (if you want) or just help out another postdoc. If there is no other room in the lab, maybe your PI can help set up a position for you through a colleague?

I think the longer I stay in research, the more I realize that there are always communication problems and personality clashes, even if they're small. And this might just be a general issue common to all workplaces. My PI sometimes jokes that scientists aren't exactly social creatures, but take that with a grain of salt. I've found that being self-sufficient is one of the best things you can do to avoid conflict (i.e. learn how to do/figure out as much as you can by yourself). Rely on your PI to help guide your project direction, your lab peers to teach you a technique (hopefully only once), troubleshoot with Google/PubMed, and the list goes on. The more your can rely on yourself, the less chance you'll conflict with somebody else because, frankly, everybody should be slightly stressed when doing research.

 

[IlDestriero]

You can try to get reassigned, but I'd probably just quit and get a new lab.
As they say, "Ain't nobody got time for that."
There's lots of head cases and psychos out there, fortunately you can usually just avoid them.

--
Il Destriero

 

[DopamineNYC]

Do what you have to do and if you are in a toxic environment that is also beyond your control (bc of the postdoc/lab hierarchy), I would say just learn from this experience and move elsewhere where you might feel valued and actually enjoy doing research. Research without the politics, squabbling is hard enough as it is sometimes... Just make sure if you do quit the lab, do it in a tactful manner.
Never burn bridges, you never know when you might meet them again.

 

[Nerdeka]

When I actually took them up on their offer to quit, they said, 'you should honor your commitment'... because he keeps threatening me that i will be kicked out. smh.

 

[Petrichor1]

When I actually took them up on their offer to quit, they said, 'you should honor your commitment'... because he keeps threatening me that i will be kicked out. smh.

don't know what cool aid ppl drink but as long as you are not being paid, you're on your own terms. I assume you have been there for more than 6 months. What commitment they are talking about I don't know cause that's btw you and them but when it comes time to leave, you either say you have some other stuff that is conflicting your schedule and try to leave an impression of upward mobility or ...yea take the former always. It's unusual how you are not able to deliver to your PI these words directly because I would get rid of that graduate student on a jiff and just talk with the PI. He's the ONLY one paying you/giving you the opportunity to volunteer at HIS/HER lab.

 

[tantacles]

Ah... this is a research opportunity where you are an undergrad getting experience for a med school app, yes?

Sure. Meet with the PI, if you have the opportunity to do so.

Don't go in bad mouthing the postdoc. You can say everything you need to say in a very professional manner. Your language and demeanor matter a lot when you are presenting a problem like this with another member of a team of which you are a part. If you are too informal or openly judgmental of another person with whom the PI has a working relationship, all you are definitely communicating is that there is a problem... and that it is as likely that you are the source of it as the other person involved.

Focus, not on your needs, feelings, etc, but on what matters to the person you are speaking to. The PI cares about the mission, the research, the reason that everyone has come together to try to accomplish something. Speak to that, and you will have their ear. Like this:

"I'm concerned about a situation which is impacting my ability to contribute, and I'd like to make you aware of it and to seek your counsel on how best to resolve the matter. I'm having some conflict with this postdoc, whether due to problems with communication style or personality, I'm not sure. (Explain one or two of your biggest conflicts with the postdoc.) It bothers me that these issues are getting in the way of me being able to give as much to the project as I would like to do, and I'd considered whether I ought to withdraw from the lab entirely so as to avoid distracting others from the work at hand. First though, I wanted to bring it to you, and see if you might have some guidance to offer, since I love the lab and would love to find a way to continue to be a part of it."

Maybe the PI will know about the postdoc's personality because others have brought similar concerns. Maybe they will have some solution to offer, like having you report to someone else. Or, maybe they will see you as the source of the drama and let you leave. You still have a lot more to gain by trying than by leaving without a conversation. Including some experience in having conversations like this, since this won't be the last time you have to work with a difficult person, and not every work situation is so easy to walk away from.

This is a great post! The mod team and I have decided that it's so great that it's worthy of a reward. Check your inbox for a $10 Amazon gift card!

 

[Promethean]

This is a great post! The mod team and I have decided that it's so great that it's worthy of a reward. Check your inbox for a $10 Amazon gift card!

Wow, thank you! That is exceedingly kind.

I try to post helpful things because SDN was so helpful to me on my path, and I want to contribute to the next set of folks trying to find clues. Participation in this community is its own reward. Still, I'm a broke medical student, and I really appreciate this. =)

 

[Nerdeka]

Thank you @Promethean your advice was so useful! Basically.. in a nutshell the PI/other postdocs said, "yup that's xxxx for you" while one rolled his eyes about her demands. Essentially, I have nothing to worry about no matter how much they bad mouth me.

Like I don't understand this postdoc. I've never had an issue with him in person. I showed up and they didn't even mention to verbal lashing they gave me. Oh well, 10 more weeks... Except they keep sending me summer grants to do... like no. Never that.

 

[Promethean]

Thank you @Promethean your advice was so useful! Basically.. in a nutshell the PI/other postdocs said, "yup that's xxxx for you" while one rolled his eyes about her demands. Essentially, I have nothing to worry about no matter how much they bad mouth me.

Like I don't understand this postdoc. I've never had an issue with him in person. I showed up and they didn't even mention to verbal lashing they gave me. Oh well, 10 more weeks... Except they keep sending me summer grants to do... like no. Never that.

So glad to hear that things worked out so well for you!

Some people, especially in science it seems to me, are just hard to get along with. They have their own sets of pressures that you will probably never know about, and some folks just never learn good coping mechanisms and people skills. This person, as frustrating as they have been to deal with, has given you an opportunity to learn about how to navigate your way through dealing with a difficult person. That is as valuable an experience to have at this stage of your career as the actual research.

Now, you will have an answer to that classic interview question: "Tell me about a time that you encountered conflict with someone you worked with."