Should I retake?

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kingdomheart said:
I think you're fine. Remember the mcat is just one component of your whole application. Your chances are best at your state schools. Retaking a 510 (80th%ile) is risky. When are you applying?
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Thank you for your response. I am applying next cycle
 
Don't retake. You will not be able to get into the same caliber schools a 517/518 might allow you too, but as long as you adjust your expectations and school list you could get an M.D acceptance with that MCAT/GPA.
 
I pretty much had the same scores as you and I retook. I normally scored 518 on practice exams but I choked and didn't finish the last 2 CARS passages on my first MCAT to get a 511 (131/124/129/127). Retook 5 months later after cramming all of winter break and I felt that my 2nd score made me more competitive for my state schools.

I feel like 510/511 isn't bad for some of the schools I was applying to instate, but the fact that it was so unbalanced (131 vs 124) made me want to retake it.
 
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AegonTargaryenVI said:
@ChymeofPassion @Dr. Faust Thank you both for your advice, I appreciate it a lot
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You're welcome! Also, a 510 is pretty solid. If you did a retake and got a 509, your efforts would have been wasted where you could have been strengthening other parts of your app. The ECs will distinguish you at that level, not a 512 from a 510. Great job and keep up the hard work.
 
I have nothing useful to add, but I just wanted to empathize. I took a big dive (-5 points) from my practice scores average on the real MCAT and it’s really frustrating. I’m sorry this happened, I know how disappointing it is. Keep your head up.
 
@atagok2 @StayWandering That helps me feel better that I'm not alone on the feeling haha. Its definitely unsettling and I think I'm just digesting it right now. I appreciate the response y'all. I'll definitely try my best to make sure the rest of my app is top-notch since I guess the general consensus is a no to retaking.
 
AegonTargaryenVI said:
@atagok2 @StayWandering That helps me feel better that I'm not alone on the feeling haha. Its definitely unsettling and I think I'm just digesting it right now. I appreciate the response y'all. I'll definitely try my best to make sure the rest of my app is top-notch since I guess the general consensus is a no to retaking.
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If I were you - and this might be regarded as bad advice, but I’m just being honest - I’d try one MD cycle with my 510. If I wasn’t getting love from schools by autumn 2020, I would start studying for a retake and assume I would be doing an MD and DO cycle for 2021-2022. If you kill it (515+) on a spring 2021 retake, you could probably be safe with an MD only cycle as a reapplicant that year.

You’d also have to be OK with risking bad optics if you don’t really improve that much on a retake.
 
AegonTargaryenVI said:
@atagok2 @StayWandering That helps me feel better that I'm not alone on the feeling haha. Its definitely unsettling and I think I'm just digesting it right now. I appreciate the response y'all. I'll definitely try my best to make sure the rest of my app is top-notch since I guess the general consensus is a no to retaking.
Click to expand...

Before rushing to judgement it is important to consider your goals. If you want to go into academic medicine and/or value going to a prestigious university I would consider retaking only since your practice scores were so much higher?

If however, your goal is simply to be an MD and you don’t care about academic medicine/prestige you should not retake.

My friend retook a 512 and got a 518 because of the discrepancy with his practice scores and the real test. The retake helped him get admission to a T20.

However my roommate two years ago got a 509 and got an MD acceptance. It was not a top 20 but still a US MD school none the less.

At the end of the day it depends on your future goals.
 
AegonTargaryenVI said:
@atagok2 @StayWandering That helps me feel better that I'm not alone on the feeling haha. Its definitely unsettling and I think I'm just digesting it right now. I appreciate the response y'all. I'll definitely try my best to make sure the rest of my app is top-notch since I guess the general consensus is a no to retaking.
Click to expand...

If you're set on a top school for academic reasons (opportunity/etc.), then retake. If this is what you really want. If any MD school will do, stand pat.
 
@StayWandering @premedpower8484848 @blurb_123 If I choose to retake (purely because my FL scores were so much higher and the CARS feels like a fluke) and I do better on CARS but lets say dip one point on any other section but receive an overall higher score (515+) would that still be bad optics?
 
AegonTargaryenVI said:
@StayWandering @premedpower8484848 @blurb_123 If I choose to retake (purely because my FL scores were so much higher and the CARS feels like a fluke) and I do better on CARS but lets say dip one point on any other section but receive an overall higher score (515+) would that still be bad optics?
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What do you have to gain by retaking? Like do you want to expand your options?
 
Hi I am not an expert by any means but this is a question that comes up a lot in Q&As I've attended with admissions. They said that just because you re-take it and get a better score, doesn't mean it's only the new score that's considered. For instance, some schools might average the two, or might only consider the older score depending on when you re-took. From my understanding, the thought process behind that is that improvement in a short period of time may be from "luck" rather than actually learning the material. Even worse, if you get a lower score it will hurt your app. So personally, I would NOT risk a re-take. The only concern you should have right now is the 124 sub-score, which you can call schools to make sure you won't get screened or anything like that. A 510 is a good score, and well within the range for the matriculating average.
 
AegonTargaryenVI said:
@StayWandering @premedpower8484848 @blurb_123 If I choose to retake (purely because my FL scores were so much higher and the CARS feels like a fluke) and I do better on CARS but lets say dip one point on any other section but receive an overall higher score (515+) would that still be bad optics?
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I genuinely don't know, I'm sorry. FWIW, I think you can be successful at your state schools and some private schools with your 510. You also have some time now to bulk up your community service hours to maximize your competitiveness for Rush/Loyola/Creighton etc., if you're interested in those service driven programs.
 
@blurb_123 Yes it is mostly to expand my options as well as get more assurance of a possible chance of acceptance. @StayWandering I appreciate that a lot I definitely need to weigh my options. I have the slight benefit of being an FL resident so lots of state schools at least
 
Time permitting, I would consider a retake. I would take a few months to address weaknesses though. It might put you in a really good spot. But you can’t afford to drop points either.
 
After reading this thread, it makes me frustrated how the confidence interval for the MCAT is 2 SD...that means that 1 in 20 applicants score more than 3 points higher or lower than they really ought to be...that is very frustrating for the lower end folks...that would be like 2000 test takers a year...
 
I think a 510 is just fine.
I got into my state MD school with a sub 505 and GPA of 3.7


Best of luck!
 
Thanks everyone for the advice so far! I got a tough decision to make ahead haha
 
Hey everyone, sorry to revive this thread but I met with my advisor, spoke with them for a long time with the rest of my app into consideration, and they suggested I do not retake it despite the CARS score and due to my high scores in the other sections.

My question now is, what schools will screen me out for a 124 on CARS or are known for doing so if anyone happens to know? This would be useful information so I do not waste my money or time on those schools as I am an FAP recipient. Thank you again!
 
AegonTargaryenVI said:
@atagok2 @StayWandering That helps me feel better that I'm not alone on the feeling haha. Its definitely unsettling and I think I'm just digesting it right now. I appreciate the response y'all. I'll definitely try my best to make sure the rest of my app is top-notch since I guess the general consensus is a no to retaking.
Click to expand...
Don't go by what others say or think you should do. Follow your gut feeling for this.
 
AegonTargaryenVI said:
Hey everyone, sorry to revive this thread but I met with my advisor, spoke with them for a long time with the rest of my app into consideration, and they suggested I do not retake it despite the CARS score and due to my high scores in the other sections.

My question now is, what schools will screen me out for a 124 on CARS or are known for doing so if anyone happens to know? This would be useful information so I do not waste my money or time on those schools as I am an FAP recipient. Thank you again!
Click to expand...
Invest in MSAR.

Pay very careful attention to IS/OOS ratios.

With your score, have DO schools on the list as well.
 
Having retaken the MCAT myself, I think you should really reflect on what your goals are and really think about what went wrong. I had my retake brought up in an interview recently because I significantly increased my score because I knew I didn't perform anywhere near my best. The adcom mentioned that most retakers only improve 2-3 points, which is probably why goro recommends no retake. My only advice is, if you decide to retake, do not go in underprepared and realize other areas of your app might suffer due to the time commitment. Best of luck in whatever you decide!
 
Goro said:
Invest in MSAR.

Pay very careful attention to IS/OOS ratios.

With your score, have DO schools on the list as well.
Click to expand...
I have been using MSAR and the thing is for almost my entire school list (including state schools) save for a few of them, their CARS lower end percentile is 125 which is why I'm scratching my head about it because even if my CARS is low for them my other subsections are high up on their percentiles.
 
AegonTargaryenVI said:
I have been using MSAR and the thing is for almost my entire school list (including state schools) save for a few of them, their CARS lower end percentile is 125 which is why I'm scratching my head about it because even if my CARS is low for them my other subsections are high up on their percentiles.
Click to expand...
CARS gets cut the most slack.

Someone has to be in the 10th %ile...why not you?

I recommend the following:
U Toledo
U VM
Miami
Tufts
George Washington
Georgetown
SLU
Albany
Rush
Rosy Franklin
NYMC
MCW
VCU
EVMS
Wayne State
Wake Forest
Netter
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
Tulane
Loyola
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Oakland-B
Seton Hall
Nova MD
CUSM IF you're from CA
Kaiser if you’re from CA
TCU/UNT
Your state school.
Any DO program. I can't recommend Touro-NY, Nova, Wm Carey, LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CalHS is too new and has a too small a rotations base, it seems.
 
Goro said:
CARS gets cut the most slack.

Someone has to be in the 10th %ile...why not you?

I recommend the following:
U Toledo
U VM
Miami
Tufts
George Washington
Georgetown
SLU
Albany
Rush
Rosy Franklin
NYMC
MCW
VCU
EVMS
Wayne State
Wake Forest
Netter
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
Tulane
Loyola
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Oakland-B
Seton Hall
Nova MD
CUSM IF you're from CA
Kaiser if you’re from CA
TCU/UNT
Your state school.
Any DO program. I can't recommend Touro-NY, Nova, Wm Carey, LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CalHS is too new and has a too small a rotations base, it seems.
Click to expand...
Curious, you made that comment many times, why so? Assume the percentile of CARS is similar to all other sections, why does that get the most cut? I thought they want to have people who have good reasoning abilities, whatever that means in a test.
 
If it were me, I would retake. Taking the test twice isn’t going to kill you. But when you retake, make sure you are better prepared than you are now. The risk vs. reward IMO favors a retake
 
notsobabydoc said:
Curious, you made that comment many times, why so? Assume the percentile of CARS is similar to all other sections, why does that get the most cut? I thought they want to have people who have good reasoning abilities, whatever that means in a test.
Click to expand...
Look at MSAR. CARS as a category is usually a full basis point below the others in the medians. There are lots of ESLs and 1st generation Americans taking the MCAT AND getting into med school.
 
spuding102 said:
If it were me, I would retake. Taking the test twice isn’t going to kill you. But when you retake, make sure you are better prepared than you are now. The risk vs. reward IMO favors a retake
Click to expand...
There are two things wrong with this advice.
1) Judgment. A 510 score is perfectly fine.
2) AAMC recommends averaging scores, as this is more accurate a predictor than either score alone.
3) Most people either do worse on a retake, stay the same, or only marginally improve.
 
Goro said:
Look at MSAR. CARS as a category is usually a full basis point below the others in the medians. There are lots of ESLs and 1st generation Americans taking the MCAT AND getting into med school.
Click to expand...
but don't forget that CARS is actually one point below all the other sections for the same percentile in the 125 to 128 range.
 
Goro said:
There are two things wrong with this advice.
1) Judgment. A 510 score is perfectly fine.
2) AAMC recommends averaging scores, as this is more accurate a predictor than either score alone.
3) Most people either do worse on a retake, stay the same, or only marginally improve.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on whether the OP wants a US MD or a t20 US MD.

While schools do generally average scores, I still think they might give the applicant the benefit of the doubt if the scores are separated by some time.

Most people do prob score about the same but that doesn’t mean the OP needs to. If they were scoring around a 518 on practice tests their true ability is likely around a 518. On my practice tests for example, I scored a 522, 516, and 517. On the real deal I scored 521. While I was definitely happy to be on the higher end, I knew going in there was no way I was going to get a 511. That’s just too much of a drop. Also, I’ve found for me atleast the science sections being more stable. Cars was highly variable. I just think the risk here isn’t so great but the reward is. If the OP retakes and scores a 511, will that be detrimental? Probably not. If they score a 517, will that make a big difference to their application, I think so. Just my 2 cents tho and I definitely don’t have anywhere as much experience as you do.
 
spuding102 said:
I think it depends on whether the OP wants a US MD or a t20 US MD.

While schools do generally average scores, I still think they might give the applicant the benefit of the doubt if the scores are separated by some time.

Most people do prob score about the same but that doesn’t mean the OP needs to. If they were scoring around a 518 on practice tests there true ability is likely around a 518. On my practice tests for example, I scored a 522, 516, and 517. On the real deal I scored 521. While I was definitely happy to be on the higher end, I knew going in there was no way I was going to get a 511. That’s just too much of a drop. Also, I’ve found for me atleast the science sections being more stable. Cars was highly variable. I just think the risk here isn’t so great but the reward is. If the OP retakes and scores a 511, will that be detrimental? Probably not. If they score a 517, will that make a big difference to their application, I think so. Just my 2 cents tho and I definitely don’t have anywhere as much experience as you do.
Click to expand...

I think most t20 schools only take the latest. One thing the OP has to answer himself is whether it was the nerves that got him to get a much lower score. If it is, then don't retake it, because second time is worse.
 
spuding102 said:
I think it depends on whether the OP wants a US MD or a t20 US MD.

While schools do generally average scores, I still think they might give the applicant the benefit of the doubt if the scores are separated by some time.

Most people do prob score about the same but that doesn’t mean the OP needs to. If they were scoring around a 518 on practice tests their true ability is likely around a 518. On my practice tests for example, I scored a 522, 516, and 517. On the real deal I scored 521. While I was definitely happy to be on the higher end, I knew going in there was no way I was going to get a 511. That’s just too much of a drop. Also, I’ve found for me atleast the science sections being more stable. Cars was highly variable. I just think the risk here isn’t so great but the reward is. If the OP retakes and scores a 511, will that be detrimental? Probably not. If they score a 517, will that make a big difference to their application, I think so. Just my 2 cents tho and I definitely don’t have anywhere as much experience as you do.
Click to expand...

It did for me...
 
Mr. Dr. Prof. Patrick said:
After reading this thread, it makes me frustrated how the confidence interval for the MCAT is 2 SD...that means that 1 in 20 applicants score more than 3 points higher or lower than they really ought to be...that is very frustrating for the lower end folks...that would be like 2000 test takers a year...
Click to expand...

Oh boy, you need to look up the confidence interval for Step I 🤣
 
If I might weigh in: most people think they can do better, especially when they've been doing well on their FL practice tests. I think I could have done better too, but we have to remember that there is never a guarantee that we will improve our score, no matter how strongly we feel. After all, most retakers go in confident, but most score the same or marginally improve.

510 is a good score. Your GPA is solid. I think your app would benefit more from solidifying your ECs/LORs. I wish you luck!
 
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Goro said:
CARS gets cut the most slack.

Someone has to be in the 10th %ile...why not you?

I recommend the following:
U Toledo
U VM
Miami
Tufts
George Washington
Georgetown
SLU
Albany
Rush
Rosy Franklin
NYMC
MCW
VCU
EVMS
Wayne State
Wake Forest
Netter
Jefferson
Temple
Drexel
Creighton
Tulane
Loyola
Uniformed Services University/Hebert (just be aware of the military service commitment)
Oakland-B
Seton Hall
Nova MD
CUSM IF you're from CA
Kaiser if you’re from CA
TCU/UNT
Your state school.
Any DO program. I can't recommend Touro-NY, Nova, Wm Carey, LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CalHS is too new and has a too small a rotations base, it seems.
Click to expand...
As always, thank you for the wonderful help. Should I avoid applying to Rush considering I don't have like absurd amounts of service like others advise having if applying there?
 
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