Should Marijuana be legalized in the US?
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Sure...no more dangerous than ethanol...less addicting. it shouldn't be used for medical purposes though. Inhaling the ashy remnants of a plant isn't a good idea in any situation. Nebulize it. The resp therapists could carry little unit dose packets of albuterol, ipratropium, and d-9-thc...
And who would be most opposed to this move? DEA agents and Drug Dealers..
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And the occasional brainwashed religious/otherwise Victorian-ethics-holding type persons...
Currently, development and distribution is largely overseen by the same parties who oversee and endorse other drug trafficking (including mules), and human trafficking (including prostitition and exploitation of human beings). It would be nice to be able to legally purchase mj from from Ma and Pa Kettle on their farm without thinking about what other endeavors your money might be going to.
To further a previous post...outside of the crazy hippy stuff...the idea of giving patients marijuana is REALLY stupid. Why not sell opium and have people smoke it? Or start prescribing cigarettes for Parkinson's? The dosage form is hazardous. Usually the medical marijuana types are just hippies that want to get high and have a doctors' excuse to do as such. Or liberals that want to sound liberal because they think its cool. If they want the active chemical to be approved for medical use...well it's called Marinol and Sativex...but if they want a drug that is introduced via inhalation, perhaps they should push for an inhalation delivery system that is smokeless. People are barking up the wrong tree...imagine people campaigning for the sale of digitalis plants when digoxin is readily available. Pure, controlled, safe. It's all very silly, IMO.
It should be taxed and available for recreational use, I guess. I mean, hell, again, if ethanol is available, why not....but it should NEVER be used in legitimate medicine...
It should be taxed and available for recreational use, I guess. I mean, hell, again, if ethanol is available, why not....but it should NEVER be used in legitimate medicine...
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I'm going to say don't legalize it. People are lazy and suck already, letting them smoke pot all day would make it even worse.
The trouble with your assertion is, there is no proof as to what the active therapeutic ingredient is in MJ. We know it's THC that makes people high. In the few patients I have had (less than 10) who used MJ for chmeo induced GI issues, 100% of them claimed the Marinol was significantly less effective than smoking. Could be I had a group of terminal hippies. Obviously my experience is anecdotal and uncontrolled.
Also the logic that since alcohol is permitted, other substances should also be permitted is really a little silly. What would the public health costs be if we legalized? Maybe we would save enough money in the legal arena to make it worthwhile. Maybe we would have only say 1000 deaths per year from legalized pot as opposed to 2000 deaths per year from our current method of operating. But to claim we would have no downside to leaglizing is not a real credible argument....
Several years ago, I had a cousing with leukemia. She said that the smoking helped, but the marinol did not. So I am not sure about the medical uses....but yeah, it should be legalized already.
There is a gigantic generational gap on this, something like 60% of people under 45 think it should be legalized. It's going to take a couple decades for it to happen, I'm afraid.
Although AG Holder just said the other day that DEA raids on medical marijuana facilities are no longer the policy of the US. About goddamn time federal agents stopped busting into grandma's stash as she wastes away from cancer. Shameful.
Anyway we should allow anyone to grow it but it should be taxed to hell. I mean it's a goddamn plant, how are you going to prevent anyone from growing it?
Although AG Holder just said the other day that DEA raids on medical marijuana facilities are no longer the policy of the US. About goddamn time federal agents stopped busting into grandma's stash as she wastes away from cancer. Shameful.
Anyway we should allow anyone to grow it but it should be taxed to hell. I mean it's a goddamn plant, how are you going to prevent anyone from growing it?
The biggest thing Obama can and should do is legalize it right now. It saves the US and state plus local government hundreds of billions (Think about jail costs alone) and will bring in millions of revenue.
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And MJ Cartel from Mexico and the DEA will definitely put a hit on Obama. I'm telling you they do not want MJ legalized. One wants the profit and the other wants the job security.
Old Timer brings up a good point. What will be the Public Health cost to legalize MJ? Will it be offset by tax revenue, cost for war on MJ, and decrease in crime?
It isn't politically possible for Obama to legalize it, let's be realistic. It sucks, but this country is tailored to people 40+, and they still support its illegality roughly 60-40.
That is until they actually need marijuana medically, like the honorable Chief Justice Rehnquist. He used to rail against medical marijuana for decades, then he got thyroid cancer and all of a sudden he's for it. Pretty sad.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1118061315039
That is until they actually need marijuana medically, like the honorable Chief Justice Rehnquist. He used to rail against medical marijuana for decades, then he got thyroid cancer and all of a sudden he's for it. Pretty sad.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1118061315039
Trust me, if the government wants this it they will get it. They can always turn the cops into IRS agents. The mob wanted to keep prohibition and we all see how that worked out. Besides the DEA is too busy robbing pharmacies that are short on C-II drugs where there is NO proof of criminal activity. They just took Rite-Aid for millions......
The DEA needs to be dissolved and all non-violent drug criminals should be released into treatment programs to deal with their addictions.
Oh and we also need to offer them counseling for the abuse they no doubt encountered whilst in our lovely prisons.
PS **** the drug war
Oh and we also need to offer them counseling for the abuse they no doubt encountered whilst in our lovely prisons.
PS **** the drug war
don't worry...I'm sure spirivasunrise will post sooner or later...
Why should you care?
We're almost falling below 90%, damn pre-pharm lurkers.
We had a debate going on a Canadian political discussion group about whether legalizing MJ could save us from our economic spiral. The most intelligent conclusion reached was, probably not; but, it couldn't hurt our economies to stop wasting all these resources and enriching all these gangsters with this pointless prohibition.
Our governments can start paying down their crippling debts by allowing MJ sales, and taxing the heck out of them, like with booze and smokes.
Pharmacologically speaking, oxycodone is far more addictive and causes far more harm than cannabis. If the powers-that-be really believed in legislating according to harm (and not according to political expediency), they'd outlaw Oxycontin, and legalize MJ.
Our governments can start paying down their crippling debts by allowing MJ sales, and taxing the heck out of them, like with booze and smokes.
Pharmacologically speaking, oxycodone is far more addictive and causes far more harm than cannabis. If the powers-that-be really believed in legislating according to harm (and not according to political expediency), they'd outlaw Oxycontin, and legalize MJ.
There are several fallacies in your arguments.
1) What would be the cost to a society of legalized MJ use:
- Greater number of DUI and there attendant costs.
- Lost worker productivity
- Greater health costs due to increased smoking of any substance.
2) It is a straw man to compare a prescription drug and an OTC recreational pharmaceutical. Just because a drug is misused does not lessen the good it does in relieving pain, especially at end of life.
1) Thanks to the successes of organized crime, I'm proposing it's already being used by everybody with a propensity for using it. Those who don't use generally don't like it (like me, for instance). I suggest that we won't see massive increases in use resulting in more DUI convictions, health care costs, lost worker productivity, and suchlike.
2) Studies on the use of Oxycontin suggest that the misuse is getting to the point where it exceeds legitimate use. Oxycontin could be removed from the market, and no-one would endure unnecessary pain.
With Oxycontin, the line between prescription pharmaceutical and recreational drug is increasingly blurred.
What is to be thought through? All your list consists of is two unfounded canards and a mommy government reason to keep marijuana illegal. Prohibition has failed monumentally, high school kids can get weed easier than alcohol, and there would be no "lost worker productivity" or "greater number of DUIs" like you seem to think. Those are two gigantic canards and you most likely know that.
As far as greater health costs, that is an individual choice and not something mommy government gets to decide for all of us. All you have to do is look at fast food, cigarettes, alcohol, or any of dozens of the things we do in modern society to find unealthy things. Do we make all of those things illegal and berth a gigantic illegal and violent underground market? Hell no, and it is an abomination that we have in the case of marijuana.
And that's not even taking into the account that most likely everyone who wants to smoke weed already does! There will be no rush to smoke weed if it is legalized, and even if there was, so what.
There is literally zero argument for having marijuana illegal other than pure, unadulterated bureaucratic morass and I ****ing hate it.
If you actually think that use would not increase if MJ were to be legalized and become socially acceptable you are not only foolish, but you also misread history.
And as for that personal choice crap. That is crap. A mountainous pile of crap. You want the government to pay for health care or you co-workers to subsidize your health care, but why should I pay for your lung cancer or DUI. There are consequences for actions and to deny they exists is silly. When your actions impinge on society than society has some say about your actions.
True. the drug war is a huge waste of money, time, and americans' freedoms and needs to end for a lot of different reasons. On the other hand, I think the issues of ending the drug war and legalizing marijuana for medical use are sometimes too intertwined.
I agree with WVU in that it is totally bogus to suggest that smoking any substance should become a recognized treatment for any illness. The medical pot community needs to change its stance a bit to gain more legitimacy. Nebulizers and inhalers maybe? Or maybe a drug company should make a cannabinoid based drug with a larger mix of active molecules instead of just d-9.
People should be able to do what they want to with their own bodies, and also, people should be able to buy and use the drugs they need to treat their illnesses, but I think these should be looked at as separate issues. Drug treatment in the united states is administered and monitored via pharmacies and manufacturers with strict quality control and safety standards. Backroom "dispensaries" and underground "grow ops" that supply these clubs are not a good model for treating a medical condition. And pharmacies themselves shouldnt be expected to start storing and selling pieces of plants.
Let people get high if they want, and then, also, turn cannabis into a legitimate medical treatment by allowing pharma to do more research so that the active chemicals themselves can go through the existing regulatory and distribution process. 👍
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What history? Oh you mean like how alcoholism or alcohol related felonies shot up after prohibition ended? Oh wait...
And marijuana already is decently "socially acceptable," so I'm not sure what you meant by that. Well, that is to people under 40.
Ok, so personal choice and individual liberty is crap? Why do we choose to ban marijuana because of supposed health reasons yet we still allow people to drink 12 sodas a day, eat a couple quarter pounders a day, and smoke a pack of cigs followed by downing a 40? You have no argument here.
don't worry...I'm sure spirivasunrise will post sooner or later...
Ohhh...how well you think you know me.
So playing devil's advocate...why just MJ?
Okay, I'll bite...what else would you legalize?
I'd say its because smoking it makes it hit the bloodstream faster and harder. The same reason people claim Sativex works better than Marinol. It's all about the delivery system.
I don't think its silly. I look at it from the standpoint of personal freedoms. And if people are allowed to abuse ethanol, there is no reason they can't abuse marijuana. It's not addicting (enough, anyway) to warrant any concern. Though I suppose the public health aspect would also be of concern. Horray for debate...
Ohhh...how well you think you know me.
Yeah, she's going to come up next weekend and we're gonna smoke some doobies up by Fallingwater. 👍
That's the problem with this country, it's being run by an older generation. New rule should be that anyone in office has to be between the age of 25-40.
they dont impair judgment as does THC...in a capitalistic society, i could give a f--k what you eat, if your fat, morbidly obese, or smoke 3 paks a day...cause thats your choice and you and only you will have to pay for it....socialized society...bro...i best not catch you eating that 1300 cal big mac...cause i aint paying your god damn bill when you cant get out of bed cause your 600 pounds...Since it may seem like we are headed toward a socialistic society, your actions will reflect on me and on the rest of our country...i dont want to be stuck caring for you ass...
Come on, when hasn't the US been a partially socialist state? The military, public schools, police, firemen...all socialist endeavors. Endeavors that even the most staunch conservative would admit are needed.
But, again, the world isn't that black and white. A Marxist would, rather effectively in this case, argue that you owe society a debt for educating you and including you in its protective aura during your formidable years. Because without the society that you lucked into being born into, you'd be alone in the woods chewing on tree bark and crapping down your legs. As such, there is no such thing as a "self made fortune". Society helped make you what you are. And for all of the help that it has given you, it is thus your duty to help it perpetuate the system to ensure the future of said system.
And you'd both be kinda right...and mostly wrong. 👍
Who said I do?
O wait, it's not the same and you know it. Since alcohol was legal, then prohibited and then became legal, the situtation is not the same.
Well in certain countries it's socially acceptable to cut off the hand of a thief, burn a widow in her husband's funeral pyre or perform clitoridectomies on young girls. Does that make it right? Does that make it good social policy?
You are the one with no argument here. First I do not assert you have no right to smoke MJ. I assert when your right to smoke MJ affects my rights and the rights of my fellow citizens to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, then society as a whole has a right to impinge on your freedoms. Your assertion about cigarettes is so wildly off the mark as to be silly. Cigarette smoking is not socially acceptable. Smokers can't smoke in any public builiding. They are forced to huddle outside like lepers. Smoking is being attacked all of the time. They pay huges taxes as punishment.
The only argument you have is we allow people to get as fat as they want and there is not the same level of stigma as with smokers. But there is clearly some. The health effects are being discussed all of the time with certain people (not me) advocating a fat tax.
Marijuana was legal before the 1937 Marihuana Tax Act, and in fact was sold by medical practitioners. Same as heroin. Wow we used to be able to grow whatever plants we wanted in the privacy of our own home, imagine that!
So basically, you're 100% wrong.
So you're comparing the acceptableness of marijuana smoking among this country's 18-40 crowd to genital mutilators in Africa? That's not hyperbolic or offensive at all!
Actually, since you mention life liberty and the pursuit of happiness (which are in the declaration of independence, not any legal document that has any weight), why don't you tell me how it is the federal government thinks it has the authority to ban substances grown in someone's house? The Controlled Substances Act is being unconstitutionally applied to anyone and everyone in this country, right down to grandma Jane growing some weed in her closet, but it's too much a part of our lives for it to ever get tossed out.
So you don't advocate a fat tax? Do you at least advocate banning cigarettes? Otherwise you're contradicting yourself and showing only a rabid hatred for one particular CHEMICAL rather than other CHEMICALS.
Don't give me 1937. That's a load of crap. Come on. You are comparing something sold by medical practitioners. So you would advocate growing opium poppies in the privacy of your own home? Which you obviously do as a logical extension on your premise.
Not really, somethings are right and some are wrong and just because something is socially acceptable does not make it right.
I personally could care less if you grow MJ. I do care if you smoke it and get behind the wheel of a car, or fill a prescription or do anything that threatens my rights while you exercise yours.
Personally I would ban tobacco. But being realistic, it would take a long time to accomplish that. It's very ingrained in our culture. In the long term tobacco is on the way out. Even if it's not. Do you as health practitioner advocate for smoking as an individual freedom? Eating to excess? Just because you can't stop something does not mean you give up the fight. Smoking pot is as bad for you as smoking tobacco. As a health professional, you would advocate legalizing pot and you further claim there would be no health effects to the users or to society from this change in regulations.
We can go round and round if you like but what it comes down to is this:
- Society has the right to ban or regulate substances that are harmful to society.
- Your individual rights cease when they affect the rights of others. See shouting fire in a crowded theater and free speech.
- Smoking MJ, tobacco or any other substance is bad for your lungs and we should do everything to discourage not encorage this behaviour
No, it's not. Marijuana was 100% legal before that bill, and technically legal after it until the CSA (you just had to pay a tax no one could figure out how to pay). So marijuana has a history exactly like that of alcohol, except alcohol was only prohibited for a decade or so while marijuana has been banned for a few decades.
Look we can disagree on something without you effectively calling me a genital mutilating monster. I don't call you a fascist because you apparently hate personal liberties.
This is entirely reasonable, and nothing I have said contradicts this. The bad part of your policy is you go from this to outright banning it. Why?
As healthcare professionals we should of course work diligently to keep tobacco, marijuana and alcohol use as low as possible, but I don't think the government should just make the decision for us all. If I want to have a glass of scotch, smoke a cigar and smoke some weed in the privacy of my home, let me. It does not affect you any more than me chugging a twelve pack of soda.
Regarding your first point, this is true to some extent. But there are limits to the power of the federal government, which no one seems to care about anymore. Those limits were put in place for a reason. I don't think allowing people the ability to smoke weed in their garage every now and then is harmful to society. Your second point is true but incorrectly applied to the question of "should weed be 100% illegal?" Your third point is 100% correct.
While you fools were arguing over something you'll never have any control over..even though it amuses me slightly, I spent 8 hours yesterday building a BMX bike for my daughter.
I see some of you Phags bring up the "age" card...but I was a lot cooler than most of you when I was a kid... especially with my BMX bike and racing...
So I picked up an old GT bike on Craigslist..which all I wanted was the frame .. then ran over to a bike shop and got busy... I still need to install the last pedal.. but here it is.
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How old's your daughter? I have a 14.5 month old, she's awesome.
By the way we do have power over it, just wait. Just wait...
By the way we do have power over it, just wait. Just wait...
14.5 months? Congrats... get her a big wheel!
Mine is 9 and half... her "barbie" bicycle was getting little too small...y'know.
Is that her bike or yours? I always wanted a BMX bike when I was a kid but never got one. 😡
See, I told you I was much cooler than you... That's hers. I had a Cook Brothers Racing BMX as a kid.. was the lightest and the baddest BMX bike ever.. little over 15 pounds depending on the wheels. I sold it when I started high school...
That bike is hers.. GT came out in the mid 80's... and then I think it sold to a larger company in the 90's.. This bike isn't as light as I wanted it...but it will do. It's not like she's going to be racing BMX... though I'm going to preserve this bike and what my son can do...he's 3 and half. I'll strip the bike and add racing parts when he gets older. This frame is solid as a rock.
Sweet, from the looks of the bike it seems like you spoil her. 😱
She's lucky.
She's lucky.
