should my impression of the PD/aPDs factor into ranking?

[WayChanger]

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hey guys, starting to take a long hard look at my tentative ranklist, and moving stuff around. i'm sure there are many that know more than me who are better able to answer this question - how important is the pd as far as a residency program goes? how much should my impression of the pd factor in my ranking? will my personal interactions with the pd be critical during the residency program itself?

for example, there were certain programs where i got a great vibe from everything except for the respective PDs, for various reasons - perhaps they didn't respond back to my emails, they seemed cold during the interview day, i felt they didn't like me during the interview itself, whatever. on the other hand, there were also certainly programs where i felt ho-hum about the program itself, but the PD/aPDs were awesome - i felt a good connection during the interview, they sent me awesome personalized responses to my thank you emails, etc. is it reasonable to consider these things significantly as far as my ranking goes? ie, when it comes to residency itself, will it really matter how i feel about the PD/program staff?

thanks everyone

 

[Frugal Traveler]

hey guys, starting to take a long hard look at my tentative ranklist, and moving stuff around. i'm sure there are many that know more than me who are better able to answer this question - how important is the pd as far as a residency program goes? how much should my impression of the pd factor in my ranking? will my personal interactions with the pd be critical during the residency program itself?

for example, there were certain programs where i got a great vibe from everything except for the respective PDs, for various reasons - perhaps they didn't respond back to my emails, they seemed cold during the interview day, i felt they didn't like me during the interview itself, whatever. on the other hand, there were also certainly programs where i felt ho-hum about the program itself, but the PD/aPDs were awesome - i felt a good connection during the interview, they sent me awesome personalized responses to my thank you emails, etc. is it reasonable to consider these things significantly as far as my ranking goes? ie, when it comes to residency itself, will it really matter how i feel about the PD/program staff?

thanks everyone

It's hard to gauge someone (like a program director) during a single interview day. Maybe something could have been going in his/her life or who knows. I used to think first impressions were important, and then after meeting many an unfortunate soul that was fine yesterday and not today, I started to let people have three chances.

There are other threads about this... but the program director is an important character as far as residencies go. You want someone that is going to stick up for the residents and run a tight shift. If you have someone that is physically present but miles away mentally, then the program can turn into a can of worms if someone is not guiding it. I believe the PD also goes over your evaluations and is a person after the chief residents that you go for any issues. You want someone that is your advocate... not someone trying to jump to a higher academic position.

As for internal medicine, many people are introverts in the field. Some of the program directors may seem very awkward on the interview day as public speaking is one of the most nerve-wracking things that someone can do even if they do it on a regular basis. There were some incidences were I did not like the program director, and I knew it was just not situational... but in the end I weighed the pros and cons of the program and ranked accordingly because one of the challenges of residency will be working with people you like and dislike. Even if you and the program director do not gel perfectly, you are still the program's pride and joy if you match there, and you will be taken care of if you work hard and prove yourself.

The other point you mentioned was about post-interview correspondence, which has become a great source of fodder for our instant gratification generation... it's like a text message after a date except nobody really knows what it means... just like dating. Programs of course enjoy having applicants come for the most, but I would not be too persuaded by post-interview correspondence and smooth operator program directors. It's a buyer's market for the most part; invest wisely.

Best barometer for program and program directors is to find someone from your school in the program and get "the word on the street" about how the land really lies.

It sounds hackneyed, but try to use your gut and a trusted adviser to sort all of these decisions out.

 

[ResidentMD]

hey guys, starting to take a long hard look at my tentative ranklist, and moving stuff around. i'm sure there are many that know more than me who are better able to answer this question - how important is the pd as far as a residency program goes? how much should my impression of the pd factor in my ranking? will my personal interactions with the pd be critical during the residency program itself?

for example, there were certain programs where i got a great vibe from everything except for the respective PDs, for various reasons - perhaps they didn't respond back to my emails, they seemed cold during the interview day, i felt they didn't like me during the interview itself, whatever. on the other hand, there were also certainly programs where i felt ho-hum about the program itself, but the PD/aPDs were awesome - i felt a good connection during the interview, they sent me awesome personalized responses to my thank you emails, etc. is it reasonable to consider these things significantly as far as my ranking goes? ie, when it comes to residency itself, will it really matter how i feel about the PD/program staff?

thanks everyone

I too went through this same issue.

This is my POV - if you dont get that warm, fuzzy vibe from the PD, its okay. I think you should confirm it with the residents. Some PDs arent warm and fuzzy, but they are great advocates for the residents, do a great job selecting good residents, and running the program. I have known some PDs that do not respond to thank you mails, but are really there for their residents. I think it may have something to do with past experiences, having been burnt, bad experiences, not wanting to mess with NRMP rules, whatever. Conversely, a PD may be very warm on the interview day, but may not be there during the 3 years of residency (may be traveling a lot), or may not be a kind of a person that will eventually make the calls to help you get into the fellowship you want, may not be as accomodative because he/she has their set rules, etc.

Unless the PD is someone you (and a few others) absolutely cannot stand (and I think this is relatively rare in the good programs), I think a lot more factors should go into making your list .The training program, itself, is important. The patients that you will see, the quality of fellow residents (often a reflection of the PDs priorities), the faculty, research opportunities, and of course if it matters, fellowship matches, among other things (I havent gone into prestige and area of living). The PD is important, and it is great to have a phenomenal PD. But as long as you can get the training you want out of there, residents are saying the PD is like any other good program director, and you think that program is the best fit for you, I would look a lot more into the above factors.

As I said, this is mainly when the PD appears ambivalent to you, the residents say he/she is fine and works with them when needed, and really does not appear to be someone bringing the program down.

 

[WayChanger]

thanks guys, great responses, much appreciated!