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I've heard a lot of sentiment from this forum that those diagnosed with ADD should not be doctors...who agrees?
Should people with ADD be doctors
- Thread starter TacoGirl
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My theory is that most people who came to this country, their ancestors made some decisions that would resemble ADD (not thinking, acting on a whim) Granted it worked out for them...combine this with TV, and look at our problem. Almost everyone has a little bit of it...so that is a tough question to ask
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Of course they should. Should people with ADD drive cars or take care of children? Yes. ADD should not stop anyone from achieving their goals. If a person with ADD can find a way to do well in college and do great on the MCAT and do all the things needed to get into medical school then the answer is a resounding yes.
C
curlycity
I used to work at "Services for Students With Disabilities," including learning disabilities, and what I saw as far as succeeding/functioning in school and life across every disability was: It totally depends on the personality. If the student was intelligent, hardworking, honest about their abilities and limitations, and diligently managed their condition, they were as good as or even better than their classmates. If the student was lazy, complaining, in denial, or had issues with taking their meds or otherwise managing their condition, they had problems no matter how many accommodations we tried to provide. One of my best friends has a learning disorder and has successfully finished a neurobiology degree - she had to work REALLY hard and stick to study techniques she learned worked for her, but she did amazingly well.
That said, medicine is a high-pressure, high-performance field, especially during residency or in certain specialties. All else being equal, I think a person with no current health problems would be a better candidate than someone who has to carefully manage their mind and body to get through the day. But sometimes, the qualities that have helped them succeed to that point in life make them a better candidate than someone who's never had to give their health a second thought - self-control, empathy with others experiencing the frustration of an illness/disorder, determination, etc. So none of us should be dismissive of someone just because they're not 'perfect' - none of us are, and even if they have problems we don't, any of us could develop a problem at any time that would impact our ability to practice medicine.
That said, medicine is a high-pressure, high-performance field, especially during residency or in certain specialties. All else being equal, I think a person with no current health problems would be a better candidate than someone who has to carefully manage their mind and body to get through the day. But sometimes, the qualities that have helped them succeed to that point in life make them a better candidate than someone who's never had to give their health a second thought - self-control, empathy with others experiencing the frustration of an illness/disorder, determination, etc. So none of us should be dismissive of someone just because they're not 'perfect' - none of us are, and even if they have problems we don't, any of us could develop a problem at any time that would impact our ability to practice medicine.
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There is an instance here in Montana where a surgeon who is diagnosed with ADD has had a poor success rate in surgeries. However, there are also cases where people have completely overcome ADD altogether. I like your attitude about prayer, Tacogirl. It can definitely be powerful! I agree with Jpro; don't let a disorder like ADD stand in your way.
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Actually, 100% of the doctors that kill people drink water. So that begs the question, should people who drink water be banned from being doctors?
To be fair, all psychological diagnosis, whether ADD or otherwise, should be judged simply based on the criterion "with treatment, can the affected doctor-to-be carry out his everyday duties with similar efficacy to an individual without the disorder and without endangering patient health"
To be fair, all psychological diagnosis, whether ADD or otherwise, should be judged simply based on the criterion "with treatment, can the affected doctor-to-be carry out his everyday duties with similar efficacy to an individual without the disorder and without endangering patient health"
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has their been a lot of discussion about ADD on this forum? I wasn't aware of it...
Tacogirl...might you be a bit obsessed with the issue of ADD and its impact? I'm not trying to be mean or making light of the situation, but if you raise doubts about your own abilities, then other people will too...and of course I'm getting this from the two threads you posted.
Tacogirl...might you be a bit obsessed with the issue of ADD and its impact? I'm not trying to be mean or making light of the situation, but if you raise doubts about your own abilities, then other people will too...and of course I'm getting this from the two threads you posted.
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For someone with ADD, it's amazing that your last 30 posts have been about the same topic...I smell a rat!! 😱
haha just messin'
haha just messin'
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TacoGirl said:
It wasn't my intention to upset you. I just think that you shouldn't care if other people consider you "worthy" of being a physician. Sooner or later, you'll get an insensitive, or ignorant comment which will probably be more offensive then my post. I don't think that'll help you in any way.
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I'm glad to see the poll results are heavily leaning toward yes. I've been pretty disappointed to see some fairly backwards, ignorant opinions about mental health expressed in these forums -- it's a small minority even here, but still...
I would argue that with no disability, mental or physical, should bar someone from a particular career unless it prevents them from doing the job even if treated.
I would argue that with no disability, mental or physical, should bar someone from a particular career unless it prevents them from doing the job even if treated.
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Of course you should be allowed to be a doctor if you have ADD! We all have to pass the same tests, clincal trials and everything. If some has a disablity/disorder and can still go to med school, more power to them.
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There is also a question of whether ADD actually exists.
Besides that, if you can't concentrate on the task at hand, then you certainly can not be a surgeon or other high-risk specialty. Primary care would be fine. 😉
Besides that, if you can't concentrate on the task at hand, then you certainly can not be a surgeon or other high-risk specialty. Primary care would be fine. 😉
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Oh believe me I know a true case of ADD or two. I'm not talking about the bs people use as a copout to explain their poorly trained attention spans. These guys absoluletly cannot focus no matter how hard they try. If I had to describe the experience, hanging out with them is like babysitting a 5 year old. You just have to keep them entertained and accept the fact they won't remember the conversation they just had in 5 minutes and will lose their wallet or keys no less than 20 times a day.
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Jalby said:
Look at this MCAT elitist, but who can knock him? Jalby is freakin' SDN royalty! 😎
As far as ADD + important medical decisions are concerned, its a good question, and normally I would say ride it til the wheels fall off. But in this case, I think you have to be a bit more careful. Certainly, you can't discriminate, but maybe there are alternatives???
Perhaps if one was getting in a little too deep, there could be a system of "federal loan forgiveness" for those who surender their license based on a medical condition such as ADD. I say this, because I tend to believe that someone who accumulates upwards of 150-200K debt might be less willing to get out of the game (even if it puts people's lives in danger) on account of this is his/her only means to make a living (while still enjoying a lifestyle that he/she has grown accustomed to). Fu$^ed up I know, but these are real issues.
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TacoGirl said:
Did you think that you could be a good physician/surgeon before you were diagnosed with ADD? The only difference is that, now, you understand what may be your greatest setback, and you will be that much better of a doc.
Should people who can't/don't pay attention or listen to their patients practice medicine? ...a resounding NO!
If your ADD is so severe that you can't engage with a patient or stay focused on the procedure you're doing you might want to think the career choice through. (but if you were this bad would you have considered going into medicine...or have done well enough to get into medical school?) Anyway, there are things that can offset ADD...such as actually caring for the well-being and feelings of your patient. I would take an ADD doc that really seemed to care for me over a steady-minded but arrogant prick of a physician any day.
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Ok--some people in medical school have ADD. Some people like to go out drinking every night. Some people just flat out don't study enough. Everyone has some weaknesses to overcome in order to be successful in medical school and as a doctor. Knowing what your weaknesses are and working to overcome them is the key. Having ADD just means you might have to study for shorter periods of time and take more frequent breaks. Also, as a doctor, you may wish to find a way to do the same. Take frequent breaks to clear your head and restore focus. There is NO REASON an individual with ADD should make a worse doctor than any other individual. It is a weakness, and it is not debilitating. Simply think of an ADD diagnosis as a minor setback and figure out ways to compensate for it and you'll be fine.
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Oh yeah, my real post. I think if someone with ADD can sit through the MCAT and do well they certainly have proven they have some measure of discipl ... hey look at the little fluffy pink dog!! its tail is sooo fluffy!! hehehehehehehe!!!!
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I've never been diagnosed with ADD, but pretty sure I could have been if I ever pursued an evaluation for it. I do have many symptoms, but over my years of education I've learned strategies to deal with it - taking frequent breaks during studying and during tests when allowed, making lots of notes and diagrams instead of just trying to read passively, not wasting time sitting passively in med school classes I couldn't pay attention to but studying on my own instead.
I know my test scores have never quite represented my practical skills, but they've been good enough to pass all my med school classes and step1/2/3 of the USMLE boards the first time (and to that dummy above talking about MCAT scores correlating to succes with patients: I got less than 30 on MCATs). Just had to totally relearn my study skills throughout college and med school to do it. Still struggling to study enough during residency, but we all struggle with that.
I actually think my love of multi-tasking is such a huge streghth as a surgery resident. You'll be working on writing a note in the chart and nurses will be coming at you asking for orders for this and that, telling you a pateint is bleeding from somewhere and you need to go look at it, your pager's going off with a consult you need to see in the ER. All at once you have to change your focus and do all these little things. I have to say for someone with ADD symptoms this stuff is kinda fun. I don't get flustered with having to manage all these things at once - I actually prefer it to sitting in one spot having to focus on one thing forever (such as medicine residents on rounds all day). My days as an intern are made up of hundreds of little tasks all strung together, often managing more than one at time.
Yes, surgery requires more long term focus, but you are DOING something, not just standing there. It's easy to keep your mind focused on what you are doing when there is a sharp instrument in your hand and you're cutting on a person's body and one false move could kill them. So I totally disagree with the above people that ADD and surgery don't mix. I strongly beleive the hyperactivity component of ADD makes me so energetic goign to the 2am traumas, the desire to always be doing something rather than sitting around, and the challenge to prioritize and get everything done - it's all perfect for a person with some ADD.
I know my test scores have never quite represented my practical skills, but they've been good enough to pass all my med school classes and step1/2/3 of the USMLE boards the first time (and to that dummy above talking about MCAT scores correlating to succes with patients: I got less than 30 on MCATs). Just had to totally relearn my study skills throughout college and med school to do it. Still struggling to study enough during residency, but we all struggle with that.
I actually think my love of multi-tasking is such a huge streghth as a surgery resident. You'll be working on writing a note in the chart and nurses will be coming at you asking for orders for this and that, telling you a pateint is bleeding from somewhere and you need to go look at it, your pager's going off with a consult you need to see in the ER. All at once you have to change your focus and do all these little things. I have to say for someone with ADD symptoms this stuff is kinda fun. I don't get flustered with having to manage all these things at once - I actually prefer it to sitting in one spot having to focus on one thing forever (such as medicine residents on rounds all day). My days as an intern are made up of hundreds of little tasks all strung together, often managing more than one at time.
Yes, surgery requires more long term focus, but you are DOING something, not just standing there. It's easy to keep your mind focused on what you are doing when there is a sharp instrument in your hand and you're cutting on a person's body and one false move could kill them. So I totally disagree with the above people that ADD and surgery don't mix. I strongly beleive the hyperactivity component of ADD makes me so energetic goign to the 2am traumas, the desire to always be doing something rather than sitting around, and the challenge to prioritize and get everything done - it's all perfect for a person with some ADD.
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WalterSobchakk said:
No offense to this poster, but many misinformed people think that those diagnosed with ADD (ADHD) are scatter brained.
Quite the contrary. Adults diagnosed with ADHD are often HYPERFOCUSED. Hyperfocusing is a two-edged sword.
You can use it well.
If you are truly passionate about medicine, learn everything you can about your diagnosis and move on, nothing is impossible.
TacoGirl said:
People with ADHD who get the usual 3.5 & 30 MCAT are just as qualified as underrepresented minorities who get accepted with a 3.35 and 28 MCAT.
ADHD mostly means the subject gets less blood flow to their prefrontal cortex, so they have to work a lot harder to process information. Once they achieve how to do that, they are no less "smart" than anyone else. And they don't get preferential treatment in admission committee meetings at your local med school even though you better believe their academic experience was a lot tougher than some rich black kid from Beverly Hills.\ 🙂
L'elephante said:
I once read in the New England Journal of Medicine that 100% of doctors who lose a patient wipe their booty after dropping the kids off at the pool. We can all take solace in ceasing THAT time-consuming activity 😛
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rpost3 said:
Has it been proven that people with ADHD get less blood flow to their prefrontal cortex? I've never heard of that as being a cause. It seems hard to believe since the brain is one of the most highly vascularized areas of the entire body.
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rpost3 said:
I thought the imaging (which is primarily done by a physician in So.Cal) was a measure of WHAT areas of the brain are cognitively used by ADHD patients for various tasks. The research has not been wholey embraced by the medical community from what I've heard.
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Do you know if this is true for OCD as well. I've seen PET scans which show hyperactivity in certain areas of the brain in people with OCD (The book "Brain Lock" talks about it), and I thought both these disorders often presented comorbid.
(I'm not in med school yet, so these might be stupid questions)
(I'm not in med school yet, so these might be stupid questions)
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Well, Spartacus, I can't sleep so I will poke at your question. As I mentioned earlier, those with adult ADD (ADHD) Hyperfocus - sometimes to the point of being obsessed but not nearly so. They may have an incredibly difficult time multi-tasking. While I know very little of OCD scans, I could imagine a correlation due to the obsessive component.
Interestingly, those with ADD are often accutely aware of 'what's wrong' with a picture. On a hike, they might be the ones who spot the camoflaged insects or notice minute changes in the appearance of familiar objects.
Interestingly, those with ADD are often accutely aware of 'what's wrong' with a picture. On a hike, they might be the ones who spot the camoflaged insects or notice minute changes in the appearance of familiar objects.
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I think people with ADD can become physicians, yes. But the real question here is whether ADD physicians should disclose the knowledge of their illness to their patients. Think about it for a second: if your child needed a critical surgery and you were faced with two equally qualified surgeons, except one had ADD and one was mentally healthy, who would you choose?
Like I said, people with ADD can make fine doctors. Whether they can survive the sociopolitical dynamics of being a physician is a different story altogether.
Like I said, people with ADD can make fine doctors. Whether they can survive the sociopolitical dynamics of being a physician is a different story altogether.
TheFlash said:
Doctors who drink and use narcotics should also disclose their addictions to patients, as should doctors with HIV/Aids. Think about what you're saying.
What is scary is if future doctos like the ones on here don't even know what ADHD is, I can only imagine what the normal public thinks of it 😱
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rpost3 said:
First of all, alcoholism and drug abuse are two serious issues that are grounds for getting your licensure as a doctor revoked. Secondly, physicians living with HIV/AIDS, while able to freely perform an isolated number of non-invasive procedures, have been mandated by the CDC to disclose their illness to patients during "exposure prone procedures." Many hospitals have much stricter policies than the CDC's recommendations on physicians who have contracted HIV/AIDS.
Think about what you're saying. If a doctor has a disease that 1) Interferes with his or her ability to care for a patient or 2) Puts the patient at serious risk of infection. Admittedly, this is an issue that has caused much controversy in the medical community. The CDC is still looking for better ways to address the situation.
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what about FAT people? I don't think they should be doctors. They take up too much space and that could inhibit their ability to do detailed work with those fat fingers and also their bellies will keep them too far removed from their patients.
I also don't think FAT people should dance. They can do it at home, but I was out the other night and this fat person was dancing, not at a club, but at a deli. She was excited over her sandwich.
I also don't think FAT people should dance. They can do it at home, but I was out the other night and this fat person was dancing, not at a club, but at a deli. She was excited over her sandwich.
