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Should there be more Pod schools?

Discussion in 'Podiatry Students' started by DexterMorganSK, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. DexterMorganSK

    DexterMorganSK The Blood Guy

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    While I think it is essential for Podiatry to advertise more at the undergrad level, I know opening anymore school will create problems with the match.

    So, I do not think there should be any more additional Pod schools...at least not until the standards for admissions requirement changes for all nine schools and there are more applicants than the number of seats available.

    What do you guys think? How about closing a school down?

    https://www.podiatrytoday.com/are-there-too-many-podiatry-colleges
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
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  3. Asksport

    Asksport 2+ Year Member

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    This would be counter-productive, in my opinion.
    A simpler solution would be to reduce the number of matriculants at each of the nine schools.
     
  4. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    There are too many students as is for the match. Pods are barley at a 1:1 ratio, and the echoes of 2012-2013 match disaster are still felt today.

    I know someone from the graduating class of 2012 who finally got a residency in 2016. This is ludacrous. If anything they need to get rid of a school.
     
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  5. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    As far as attracting new talent, most people don’t know what a podiatrist is, the responsibilities one has, or that they can do Surgery.

    I think the best way to go about recruiting it is to produce excellent pods, and have students that are proud of their school and will recruit for those school. Word of mouth is the best advistisment. Currently, the recruitment policy for DPM schools like New York and Kent are to spam email lists of people who scored low on the mcat. How about going to Health fairs at the undergrad campus? I never see pod schools at these things, but DO schools are all over them.
     
  6. Weirdy

    Weirdy

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    Major reason I am where I am.

    Attended a health fair during graduate degree. Saw them and started talking.
     
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  7. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    I mean, all they need are attractive people at those booths to get students interested.

    To maximize the effect, I volunteer @smurfeyD and @Weirdy


     
  8. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD 2+ Year Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. Lord_stark

    Lord_stark

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    I think we need to a better advertisement and advocacy about podiatric medicine to the pre-med students to increase applicant pool. Using the proper term would be one example, such as Podiatric medical school instead of pod school. Its fine for us, but it often gives false perspective to those pre-med students.
    One funny line reminds me of using proper word. " You shouldn't call your fraternity a frat like you wouldn't call your country a xxxx."

    Podiatric medicine and surgery is a specialty in medicine. Podiatirc medical students are trained to become physician and surgeon who specialize in lower extremity.

    DPM/DO/MD: 4 years of medical school, minimum 3 years of residency, full Rx licence, independent Dx & Rx in office and hospital, and hospital privilege..etc
    - DPM and surgical DO/MD have surgery privilege in hospital.
     
  10. DexterMorganSK

    DexterMorganSK The Blood Guy

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    In the article above, some suggested that opening more schools in turn will increase the DPM awareness to the general public and the premeds, as more people apply and graduate as DPMs, there will be more opportunities for Pods and so on. It is quite possible that might happen because we have (are seeing) this with the DO schools, currently. Back when I started undergrad, in 2004, DO schools were emerging very slowly...and today..almost a couple of new schools are opening per year (as a new school or a sister-branch to an already established school).

    It may or may not cause an issue for the DO students with their match due to the increase in overall grads per year. But, I think unless the total of the number of residency positions increase for Pods, any increase in grads here will cause a residency shortage for us, guaranteed.
     
  11. AslanMacit

    AslanMacit 2+ Year Member

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    Should or shouldn't it's probably gonna head that way.
     
  12. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    Worked for DO schools.

    Trouble is, Pods only have one match and it’s barley at 1:1.

     
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  13. bobtheweazel

    bobtheweazel 2+ Year Member

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    I don't know why you keep saying this. It's simply misleading to prepods. Our match rate is essentially the same as the MDs/DOs.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
     
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  14. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    The amount of pods graduating vs the amount of residency spots available [+] the amount of pods that didn't match trying to match this year is not as good as MD/DO.

     
  15. bobtheweazel

    bobtheweazel 2+ Year Member

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    But did you just make that up or do you have numbers to back up your claim?

    First of all I would remind people that any prepod or current pod student will not be graduating as somebody who previously didn't match, so every new pod grad will have a shot with 95+% chance to match (this year's match was 95% for new grads, last years was about 98%, it varies quite a bit since our pool of grads is so small).

    Second of all if you look at the 2017 residency data for MDs and for DPMs, MDs had a 97.5% placement rate for new US grads (after SOAP) and DPMs had a 95% placement rate for new grads (after MPII). If you look at previously unmatched US (not IMG) MD graduates, of which there are well over a thousand, they had a 2017 placement rate of 49.7% overall. If you look at previously unmatched DPM graduates, they had a 2017 placement rate of 47.1% overall. All things considered, this is in the same ballpark—which is impressive considering that we're on the other side of a residency crisis here. And since our placement rate for new grads was higher than the MD placement rate for new US grads last year, I'll again say that we're essentially in the same place.
     
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  16. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD 2+ Year Member

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    What is placement vs match?
     
  17. bobtheweazel

    bobtheweazel 2+ Year Member

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    A lot of match numbers that you look at might be only for the main match. So by overall residency placement I'm also considering those placed in the scramble (SOAP for MDs, MPII for DPMs).

    For instance if you just go Google MD residency statistics they'll give you a "match rate" but that usually doesn't include placement via their scramble process.

    Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
     
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  18. dr.phoot

    dr.phoot

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    I just wanna make some money :D
     
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  19. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    OMG shouldn’t go into medicine for money RREEEEEEE
     
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  20. dr.phoot

    dr.phoot

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    why do you think the word medicine starts with an "m"? :D;)
     
  21. IDontHaveAnyFeet

    IDontHaveAnyFeet

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    No. I left podiatry. Is the field needed, yes. But with the tuition rates and the average podiatry salary it is not worth it.
    7 years after putting yourself 200 k+ in debt plus the cost of not working for 4 of those years meanwhile people from engineering can easily rack up 100 k starting salaries in cities like seattle, portland, LA, Sf bay are, NYC, Boston .

    Bottom line is podiatry needs to see a compensation increase for the work they do.
     
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  22. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    What are you going to do instead?

     
  23. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD 2+ Year Member

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    100k in those cities doesnt get you much
     
  24. IDontHaveAnyFeet

    IDontHaveAnyFeet

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    I just finished a software camp and signed over to a company for 105k. Starting .
    My tuition for software coding camp was 17 k and it was only 100 days long.
    Edit: I may improve my mcat and apply to medical schools in the future. If the economy fails I go to PA school and keep my 100 k salary
    No it doesnt but my podiatry school was in the middle of no where, and I prefer to live close to the city in nice weather. 100 k is my starting without a degree, I have friends making 150 k 2 years out of college.
    Tons of engineers here make 200 k + with equity.
     
  25. PashaOdesit

    PashaOdesit Nobel Prize Recipient Gold Donor Classifieds Approved

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    sounds like awesome deal.
     
  26. PashaOdesit

    PashaOdesit Nobel Prize Recipient Gold Donor Classifieds Approved

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    podiatry averages are around what FMs and Peds get.

    Medicine is not for everyone. There are many places where you can get 100-150K without so much school. You can open various businesses and get at least 200K. Some people just like medicine.

    My 2 brothers own a truck company and they gross at least 400k together without even 2-year college and they work less then 9 months a year.

    My cousin started auto parts business 20 years ago and he grossed on average 300K. He dropped out of 9th grade in high school and never had a high school Diploma.

    My other cousin bought a pizzeria and now owns three of them. no high school Diploma.

    My friend grosses at least 400K. He just opened an electric company and have people working for him. No college degree.

    Medicine is not the best career in terms of salary for years spent on training.

    CEOs get millions just with Masters degrees.
     
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  27. IDontHaveAnyFeet

    IDontHaveAnyFeet

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    I agree,
    It wasnt just money but job opportunities.
    When I kept asking my school about careers in bigger cities, the average pod doesnt just pick a state and go work there. Career opportunities are more limited than say family med or pediatrics etc.
     
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  28. PashaOdesit

    PashaOdesit Nobel Prize Recipient Gold Donor Classifieds Approved

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    that's true
     
  29. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    There are a couple of pod schools in urban areas with nice weather, AZPOD and Barry come to mind.

    As far as return and job placement, no, nothing comes close to the demand for MD/DOs. I would say NPs and PAs are up there, but they are also more easily replaced. Podiatry as a market from my research isn’t all that saturated though, outside of the big cities, and will likely continue to be just at retirement/replacement rate, since there are only 9 schools. So it would be harder to get a job in Cali or New York as a DPM, but it’s already hard to get a job there in other fields.

    As far as economy, I would think DPM would have better prospects than anything else besides MD/DO and maybe DDS. Even in a bad economy, there is only so long you can live with ingrown toenails.

    In case of a total economic collapse like Fallout style, I’d rather be a doctor/surgeon who can offer a broad range of services. From my research into post apocalyptic economics, doctors still take the cake. I’d rather have a MD general surgeon dig a bullet from my arm, but a podiatrist with surgical skills would still be preferable to say an insurance salesman or food service worker in case there was no MD. I mean, that procedure is worth like at least 300 bottle caps.


     
  30. dr.phoot

    dr.phoot

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    Engineering was my second career choice. I debated between that and medicine. Sitting behind a desk in an office all day has its down side too. I'm actually looking into combining the two fields!


    Not doubting or denying any of what you wrote becsuse it's very true.

    here's what my concerns are:

    - it's not just about the money. Sanitation and bus drivers in NYC can clear well into the 6 figures. No degree required, amazing benefits, retire in 25 years (So imagine starting at age 20!). I personally would not be happy doing that job, despite the pay. Send me to school, w/ loans, and give me a professional career with less pay than sanitation any day. It's just where my heart is at. My #1 policy when it comes to employment: No suit & tie, no care!

    - the odds of success. I'm impressed by what your brothers have achieved, but what are the odds that everyone can start and operate a successful business that yields profit like that?

    - CEOs are few at the top. Not many people will ever get a CEO position, regardless of years and effort put in. Even if your masters is from an ivy league.

    So, yeah there are better alternatives out there but medicine has the upper hand in the sense that it offers a guarantee: (1) you're going to be able to say you're a doctor, (2) upper middle class income. Essentially guaranteed it, even as a podiatrist, (3) not going to be stuck in the 9-5 & it's at least fulfilling.

    This is what pretty much keeps me drawn to medicine and not running off going, "screw this, I'm just going to go work my way up some company with an MBA". Every year when different organizations release the best jobs for the year, medical careers are always on it. Always.

    Is podiatry, specifically, worth it? that's what I'm still trying to figure out.
     
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  31. IDontHaveAnyFeet

    IDontHaveAnyFeet

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    combining the two fields would be great, that was my goal earlier.
    My problems with engineering are
    1)Low income outside of cities (chicago, boston, ny, some parts of florida, some parts of arizona, California overall, Seattle, Portland will usually pay you 100 K or more after just a few years of experience, but as someone mentioned cost of living is not cheap either)-however in my case, I would rather live in the sunny hills of California and live in a slightly smaller home where there are ample activities to do.
    2) Like you said desk job, now just to clarify this depends. There are on site engineers who do not sit down and can make some crazy money. I chose software because of $$$, easy to learn - quick to pick up, lots of opportunities to do your own creative projects with almost no investment (besides a laptop/desktop computer). For me the benefit of software is if I dont want to go to work, I dont have to. I can sit at home in my pajamas write my code, and dilly dally .

    For me those two were important, living in a city and earning well with less educational investment. For other people podiatry may line up better to their career choice and interests. And both are respectable choices. I just think podiatrists need to be compensated more than they are now. The guys I shadowed were in SF and NYC making 160 k a year after 5 years in practice which i just a miserable number
     
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  32. PashaOdesit

    PashaOdesit Nobel Prize Recipient Gold Donor Classifieds Approved

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    I have some friends in Sacramento area who completed some summer or half-year courses and now make around 6 figures from the start. It's good deal for such short training to get that pay, but you won't pay me enough to do anything related with computers or networking. I absolutely hate that.

    Engineering, I understand, there are many awesome engineering jobs and the job is interesting and interactive.
     
  33. smurfeyD

    smurfeyD 2+ Year Member

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    After taking Physics I realize I'd rather shoot myself than be an engineer. Too much math
     
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  34. dr.phoot

    dr.phoot

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    (1) I'm interested in the Chief Meidcal Information Officer role, or just Chief Information Officer for a hospital or care facility. My ideal scenario is one where I can do routine care weekends and a few weeknights and deal with health info data the rest of the time. I'm not so crazy for performing surgery so it's something I'm willing to give up. I wouldn't mind being an associate for low 100s and handling their routine stuff and the rest of the time working with health informatics and clinical software. I'm currently in a masters program for Informatics. I'm playing around with python & SQL. Then I was going to look into a comp sci certificate program but I'll end up going to pod school after my masters so the certificate program prob wont happen. I'm fully convinced there definitely is a strong need for clinicians who can also handle the IT stuff so it definitely won't be in vain or a wasted investment.

    (2) California is not a place I want to live, even though it's a big tech central. I already live in NYC so I want a different experience. Atlanta, Carolinas, Iowa, Idaho and places like that where I can work at a mid-sized facility and learn my trade. Then bring it back to the big cities for a big position. So 80 - 120k in places like that can really go far. It also comes down to managing your finances too. I wouldn't go too crazy and buy a Porsche just yet. I'll get that after I slice my loans in half, or more. Early years, I just want to focus on my loans and I accept you have to work your way up.

    (3) I feel you. I like the blend where I can be at the desk and office and also field. Which is why I'm looking to combine so that I can see patients and also work with the tech stuff. Variety is good. I'm also a fan of software engineering because it's the direction we're headed. I think healthcare is such an untapped gold mine. It was recently under Obama administration that everyone was mandated to go electronic. So there's potential to write software and apps and cash it in! I also like the fulfilment of medicine. End of the day, I can have a jerk boss but at least one patient will appreciate me.

    (4) we also differ in the less education part. I personally love school and I'm a sucker for titles. If I scrap podiatry school and medicine altogether, I would go all in with the healthcare IT. I'll get a second masters in computer science to beef up my credentials and even look into a PhD at some point. Maybe I'm just an academic at heart but I don't want to be this cool guy wearing basketball shorts, driving a range, making crazy bank as a software engineer, but no degree. I would rather a healthcare IT executive with a degree, making bank, as custom tailored suit, and then the range.

    Anyway, I'll PM you some questions so be on the lookout.


    Thank you for your honest opinion in the pod field. How did your family take the news when you left pod school?
     
  35. PashaOdesit

    PashaOdesit Nobel Prize Recipient Gold Donor Classifieds Approved

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    I actually like math and physics; they were my favorite subjects in HS. I went to state contests 2 years in a row. I was thinking about engineering in HS for a while.

    I took computer programming course in college as an elective. It was so boring sitting at the computer and writing codes and designing things. I can't stand it.
     
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  36. dr.phoot

    dr.phoot

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    Even before this post, you always struck me as someone who has their mind 100% made up on podiatry. Make us proud, man! :thumbup:
     
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  37. IDontHaveAnyFeet

    IDontHaveAnyFeet

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    Computers are a little boring for me as well , I agree. Unfortunately for me feet weren't in my future, I wanted to be an IM doc and DO schools were a bit out of reach. Engineering was my second favorite choice.
    However, the culture and environment is pretty laid back. Most people only code 4 hours a day and the rest is just meetings or chilling.
    And yeah other types of engineering (My uncle is a marine engineer), can be really exciting. His job involves living on cruise ships and just making sure the engine doesnt fail. pretty cool life. For some reason since his company is an off shore company in the middle east he pays 0 tax.
     
  38. PashaOdesit

    PashaOdesit Nobel Prize Recipient Gold Donor Classifieds Approved

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    Engineering is pretty good career in terms of pay and opportunities for growth, but it might take years before you get where you would like to work. People complain about podiatry that it doesn't have guaranteed salary range. Engineering is even more spread out in terms of pay. Some start 40-50k and might never break 70-90k ceiling. To become a project manager, manufacturing or production manager, or any other leading engineering position might take a decade. I have worked with engineers side by side and I have seen how hard newly employed engineers have to work. Usually, they start working on the line and taking responsibilities for all problems. They have to find solutions and do the dirty work. It takes years before they can get promoted because there are many smart engineers bidding for higher positions all the time.

    I am not saying engineering is bad. I just don't think it's necessarily better than medicine or specifically podiatry.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
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  39. DexterMorganSK

    DexterMorganSK The Blood Guy

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    No one in NYC is making a starting salary of 100K with a Bachelor's in Engineering.
    Only jobs that pay this much right after school are jobs mostly within Medicine. Here, most programmers, computer scientists, and software engineers start around 70-80K.

    People choose Podiatry for various reasons and if money is their only goal then that's too bad, should have researched before.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  40. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    Is that before or after Uncle Sam takes his cut?

     
  41. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus 5+ Year Member

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    If you liked engineering, you should have gone to Dental school. Lots of mechanical work there, they make 120-200k, and it’s only 4 years.

     
  42. DexterMorganSK

    DexterMorganSK The Blood Guy

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    Before taxes.

    I was an engineering major for two years, BME to be more specific. But, after going through calculus 1 and 2 physics classes, I knew this wasn't the field for me. Most of my friends did not land a job after graduation because of the competition from other schools around the NYC areas and people with foreign degrees. Because let's be honest, most of the CS and programming jobs are going to people with h1 visas..lol...similar to Radiology..

    Those that found a job in NYC were getting paid anywhere from 50-80K. The majority had to move out of NY to find better opportunities.

    I'm not saying that it is impossible to find a 100K job with an engineering degree, but it is impossible with just a bachelor's and right out of college, esp in big cities. The competition in this field is real as well.
     
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  43. IDontHaveAnyFeet

    IDontHaveAnyFeet

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    There are just a lot of terrible engineers out there. My friends above me work at google for 150 k (only one year out of college), they start work at 10 AM, they go on two hour lunch breaks, and check out at 6 PM every day.
    The amount of abuse you suffer depends on the company you work for. Apple is notorious for abusing its engineers, meanwhile several other companies have relaxed schedules.

    I had two offers in NYC from hedge funds as a front end developer at 90k. My fathers girlfriend just left her software job in NYC at city bank which payed her 370k /year after 20 years of experience.

    Out here in silicon valley almost every engineer clears 100 k with just a bachelors starting. When you add on benefits and equity with a mid tier company it comes out to be 130k.
    Bioengineers and Industrial Operations are on the lower end making roughly 85k.

    As far as H1 visas works, what the news says isnt exactly true. The people I work along side are american graduates. Some may have moved from their home countries but most have atleast acquired a Masters degree at an American school. The quality of code produced by an H1b visa worker is atrocious and called "spaghetti code" out here. They are used to do the grunt work
     
  44. IDontHaveAnyFeet

    IDontHaveAnyFeet

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    I considered it, but four years is still a very long time. Here, in four months, I already started at 100 k and my tuition was negligible. By the time I am 35, if I dont slack off, I can expect my cash salary to be closer to 150k and equity anywhere from 50 k to infinity depending on the company I chose. I am living at home so my rent is also 0 for now. but in 3 years Ill have already saved enough to begin a downpayment on a home here https://www.paysa.com/salaries/google
     
  45. PashaOdesit

    PashaOdesit Nobel Prize Recipient Gold Donor Classifieds Approved

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    sounds good. as long as you are happy with the career choice and pay.
     
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  46. DexterMorganSK

    DexterMorganSK The Blood Guy

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    Good luck!
     
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