Left Pod School for DO, Have 1A and 5II AMA

[unusualonion]

***Long Post; TLDR at end***

Last AMA I did for leaving pod school was locked bc folks couldn't keep crappy opinions to themselves. This thread is truly for people who may be genuinely considering leaving pod school and have questions or want to know what my experiences have been.

Please do not beat the "podiatry sucks" drum or tap the "less competition for the current pod students" sign.

For reference, I left to pursue NP/PA but after I retook the MCAT (494->495->500) I was encouraged to shoot my shot. Applied to 27 schools later in cycle (August 2023) and like the title, 1A and 4II left.

Stats:
MCAT 500
cGPA (undergrad, post-bacc, pod school): 3.4
sGPA (same as above): 3.2
Undergrad GPA: 2.9 (multiple F's, D's, and retakes)
Postbacc GPA: 3.9 (re-takes included)
Pod GPA: 3.4

I can DM other parts of my application if requested.

Leaving by itself was scary. I felt like I might have thrown away my chance to be a doctor. I knew that it would be an uphill battle for NP/PA, and much more so for my eventual DO apps. I even did a spreadsheet using rough numbers to show that leaving then and pursuing NP/PA would put me in the black, financially, sooner than DPM would. Began studying for my MCAT re-take while in pod school. After that semester finished, I took the plunge and left.

I didn't get the score I wanted and decided to cut my losses and go for NP as I already had the credits to breeze into an accelerated RN program. From there I'd enrolled in a few classes at my local community college so I didn't have to take them at the RN school for 3x the price. Ironically, my significant other was speaking to her friend who had gotten into DO with a similar stats as my pod school app and encouraged me to apply DO. Rounded up my app materials and shot off as many as I could. I do not recommend this if money is tight as this "devil may care" application strategy has left a dent my finances lol. Anyway, I utilized anyone who would give me the time of day to review my PS (SDN was super helpful for this!!!).

From there it was application business as usual: spending an arm and a leg on secondaries. Hoping and praying to anyone and everyone that I'd get an interview. Lo and behold total of 5II's and 1A so far. This isn't to brag or gloat. I though my career was over with those F's in undergrad. I still can't believe it. But here's the rub: if someone like me can leave podiatry bc its not a fit for me, so can anyone!

I'll be around today through Christmas Eve for questions and DMs

***TLDR: left pod school, scared crapless, applied on the recommendation of someone else, got in with arguably subpar stats***

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[FletchL]

HI, New member here.

Could you elaborate on why you felt "if someone like me can leave podiatry bc its not a fit for me, so can anyone!".
I would like to know what aspects you found off-putting and perhaps (if you don't mind) which school where you attending, when?

In general I would like to note however, that not being completely driven in to podiatry is enough of a reason to not pursue that degree. I wanted to be a podiatrist due to various experiences and opportunities. I managed a 511 on MCAT (2nd attempt) and applied to 1 school. Couldn't I have done other things? Certainly. But I like what I do. Even if its not perfect, nothing is.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

***Long Post; TLDR at end***

Last AMA I did for leaving pod school was locked bc folks couldn't keep crappy opinions to themselves. This thread is truly for people who may be genuinely considering leaving pod school and have questions or want to know what my experiences have been.

Please do not beat the "podiatry sucks" drum or tap the "less competition for the current pod students" sign.

For reference, I left to pursue NP/PA but after I retook the MCAT (494->495->500) I was encouraged to shoot my shot. Applied to 27 schools later in cycle (August 2023) and like the title, 1A and 4II left.

Stats:
MCAT 500
cGPA (undergrad, post-bacc, pod school): 3.4
sGPA (same as above): 3.2
Undergrad GPA: 2.9 (multiple F's, D's, and retakes)
Postbacc GPA: 3.9 (re-takes included)
Pod GPA: 3.4

I can DM other parts of my application if requested.

Leaving by itself was scary. I felt like I might have thrown away my chance to be a doctor. I knew that it would be an uphill battle for NP/PA, and much more so for my eventual DO apps. I even did a spreadsheet using rough numbers to show that leaving then and pursuing NP/PA would put me in the black, financially, sooner than DPM would. Began studying for my MCAT re-take while in pod school. After that semester finished, I took the plunge and left.

I didn't get the score I wanted and decided to cut my losses and go for NP as I already had the credits to breeze into an accelerated RN program. From there I'd enrolled in a few classes at my local community college so I didn't have to take them at the RN school for 3x the price. Ironically, my significant other was speaking to her friend who had gotten into DO with a similar stats as my pod school app and encouraged me to apply DO. Rounded up my app materials and shot off as many as I could. I do not recommend this if money is tight as this "devil may care" application strategy has left a dent my finances lol. Anyway, I utilized anyone who would give me the time of day to review my PS (SDN was super helpful for this!!!).

From there it was application business as usual: spending an arm and a leg on secondaries. Hoping and praying to anyone and everyone that I'd get an interview. Lo and behold total of 5II's and 1A so far. This isn't to brag or gloat. I though my career was over with those F's in undergrad. I still can't believe it. But here's the rub: if someone like me can leave podiatry bc its not a fit for me, so can anyone!

I'll be around today through Christmas Eve for questions and DMs

***TLDR: left pod school, scared crapless, applied on the recommendation of someone else, got in with arguably subpar stats***

Did you do the post bacc before or after pod school

 

[GreenHousePub]

This should probably be reposted after your first year of the DO program. There are a lot of retakes in your history, and I'd be concerned if you haven't adapted your studying strategies.

For profit schools (podiatry included) are after your money first, not your survivability in the program.

 

[unusualonion]

I can certainly elaborate. Many of my classmates were also disheartened with the trajectory of the profession from salaries, job opportunities, and job locations to basic medical training, anatomy training, and the disconnect between the marketing material and the realities of being a pod. Many of these same students were like me, maybe had some issues in undergrad, did a postbacc to bump GPA, and had other clinical/research experiences. It felt like we were sold a bill of goods on the title of "foot and ankle surgeon" except for the vast majority of pods, "surgery" isn't the primary role.

I'm glad that podiatry is working out for YOU. It clearly was not for me and a few other students. However, many of these students did not want to take the risk of leaving and starting over. And what I've heard from other students still in the program is that they are not doing well as a class, and neither is the incoming class of 2027.

To be clear: withdrawing from pod school was the culmination of many factors, not the least of which is the overall outlook for the profession, this is a subjective outcome after reviewing objective facts about the profession. Furthermore, I hold no real ill will towards the schools, or podiatrists writ large. When I say "someone like me can do it so can anyone" I am trying to convey that 1. you shouldn't be in a program you don't fully want to be in and 2. that those "w" on my transcripts clearly did not weigh my application down.

No, for the time being, I will not be disclosing the school or year I attended.

 

[unusualonion]

Did you do the post bacc before or after pod school

Did it after undergrad but before pod school

This should probably be reposted after your first year of the DO program. There are a lot of retakes in your history, and I'd be concerned if you haven't adapted your studying strategies.

For profit schools (podiatry included) are after your money first, not your survivability in the program.

My A is at a non-profit school, and i'd have to disagree to a certain extent. If they were only in it for the money (like pod schools and carib schools), no one would ever pass boards the first time as way to keep students paying tuition for at least one more year. Their promotion % would stall. Even if they don't lose accreditation, their match rates will plummet and no one will apply. Either way, I guess I have a new calendar event for july 2025

 

[Robin-jay]

Sounds expensive. Some day you will actually have to pay off debt you know.

I've noticed a lot of people that left podiatry for other careers weren't exactly killing it in podiatry. So I have to assume they have other troubles ahead.

 

[I Drink Riesling]

Congratulations OP! Good luck with school. I know a handful of people who left podiatry school on good academic standing because their hearts weren’t in it and didn’t want to fall prey to the sunken cost fallacy. They are much happier and doing well. I hope the same goes for you.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

Sounds expensive. Some day you will actually have to pay off debt you know.

I've noticed a lot of people that left podiatry for other careers weren't exactly killing it in podiatry. So I have to assume they have other troubles ahead.

I think it really depends. I know when I rotated through a top program as an extern their resident had left for md school and he was valedictorian of his class.

 

[unusualonion]

Sounds expensive. Some day you will actually have to pay off debt you know.

I've noticed a lot of people that left podiatry for other careers weren't exactly killing it in podiatry. So I have to assume they have other troubles ahead.

I could just find a job with repayment? or go the PSLF route? Or ya know... be paid well enough as a physician to pay it off? I don't really see the "gotcha" you thought this was going to be, but go off I guess.

Even making deans list at pod school, I didn't want to do it and therefore I literally stopped it before I made it my career.

Congratulations OP! Good luck with school. I know a handful of people who left podiatry school on good academic standing because their hearts weren’t in it and didn’t want to fall prey to the sunken cost fallacy. They are much happier and doing well. I hope the same goes for you.

Thanks! Now having an acceptance makes the bumpy road worth it.

 

[air bud]

HI, New member here.

Could you elaborate on why you felt "if someone like me can leave podiatry bc its not a fit for me, so can anyone!".
I would like to know what aspects you found off-putting and perhaps (if you don't mind) which school where you attending, when?

In general I would like to note however, that not being completely driven in to podiatry is enough of a reason to not pursue that degree. I wanted to be a podiatrist due to various experiences and opportunities. I managed a 511 on MCAT (2nd attempt) and applied to 1 school. Couldn't I have done other things? Certainly. But I like what I do. Even if its not perfect, nothing is.

The future. That is what is off putting for anyone in podiatry school.

 

[Robin-jay]

I think it really depends. I know when I rotated through a top program as an extern their resident had left for md school and he was valedictorian of his class.

There is no doubt he will be successful, but I don't think I could fathom 400k+ more and 7+ more years of training to achieve whatever that success is. That guy is the king of delayed gratification when that payoff is 15 years down the road.

I could just find a job with repayment? or go the PSLF route? Or ya know... be paid well enough as a physician to pay it off? I don't really see the "gotcha" you thought this was going to be, but go off I guess.

It's not a gotcha, it's fairly reasonable to consider debt. These days, debt is worse than ever, as inflation is insane. Back when I started podiatry school just a few years ago, everything was much cheaper. I couldn't imagine going to MD school to pack on 400k of debt.

However, I've noticed many individuals priorities are much different than mine. Debt isn't a huge factor to many people, to the point where its almost ignored completely. However, income still is. So being 600k in debt as a neurologist is better to many individuals than 300k as a podiatrist.

 

[footshazam]

There is no doubt he will be successful, but I don't think I could fathom 400k+ more and 7+ more years of training to achieve whatever that success is. That guy is the king of delayed gratification when that payoff is 15 years down the road.


It's not a gotcha, it's fairly reasonable to consider debt. These days, debt is worse than ever, as inflation is insane. Back when I started podiatry school just a few years ago, everything was much cheaper. I couldn't imagine going to MD school to pack on 400k of debt.

However, I've noticed many individuals priorities are much different than mine. Debt isn't a huge factor to many people, to the point where it’s almost ignored completely. However, income still is. So being 600k in debt as a neurologist is better to many individuals than 300k as a podiatrist.

Hater… you wish it was you let’s be for real lol
There you go again worrying about other people and their pockets… podiatry makes people so miserable and everytime I log on here I’m reminded of that… it’s truly sad… be happy for people and shut up PLEASE

Debt literally doesn’t matter anymore with PSLF

CUT IT OUT

 

[footshazam]

Congrats to you! I’m happy for you!

 

[MoostashPod]

Not everyone is as brave as you are and I am glad you decided on what's best for you, even if that means starting over. And congrats on getting accepted to DO school. I hope for your success in the future and really make it happen out there. I think perhaps you'll look back one day and say it was the best decision in your career path. Everything is in the rearview mirror now and whatever failures or troubles you have in the past can be closed in your book. Move forward headstrong.

 

[Weirdy]

Gonna ask you guys to remain civil and refrain from ad hominem attacks or I will be editing comments with not-so-friendly language.

 

[JustAPedicurist]

Congrats, good luck. Hopefully you get a different specialty besides family medicine/pediatrics/internal medicine otherwise most podiatrists who aren’t bumbling idiots will easily make more than you

 

[shadesofgrey]

Congrats, good luck. Hopefully you get a different specialty besides family medicine/pediatrics/internal medicine otherwise most podiatrists who aren’t bumbling idiots will easily make more than you

Disagree. I doubt any MD's make less than 100k. I know multiple pods that earn that. Some with good training, some garbage.

 

[unusualonion]

*tapping the sign* can we please keep it civil?

This AMA is really meant to be a resource for anyone considering leaving pod school. To that end: PM/DM (whatever y'all call it) are open for anyone who doesn't want to ask questions publicly. Please keep your negative energy to yourself.

Not everyone is as brave as you are and I am glad you decided on what's best for you, even if that means starting over. And congrats on getting accepted to DO school. I hope for your success in the future and really make it happen out there. I think perhaps you'll look back one day and say it was the best decision in your career path. Everything is in the rearview mirror now and whatever failures or troubles you have in the past can be closed in your book. Move forward headstrong.

Thanks! It's been a long and bumpy road. Pod school, for better or worse, did help with learning to study in graduate school and that no matter the schooling, there's gunners and whatnot. I learned a lot about the politics of grad school too. It, like anything else I've done, was a learning experience.

So being 600k in debt as a neurologist is better to many individuals than 300k as a podiatrist.

For how I want to spend my life and what I want to accomplish in medicine, even if not as a neurologist? You betcha.

 

[Robin-jay]

For how I want to spend my life and what I want to accomplish in medicine, even if not as a neurologist? You betcha.

That's perfectly fine, but what irks me is when people think spending 600k+ on previous education + DO schools after podiatry education is somehow a wise financial investment. It's simply not. But if you take away the finances of everything and if you really enjoy being a FM, or something along those lines to the point of that level of investment, then go for it.

 

[unusualonion]

That's perfectly fine, but what irks me is when people think spending 600k+ on previous education + DO schools after podiatry education is somehow a wise financial investment. It's simply not. But if you take away the finances of everything and if you really enjoy being a FM, or something along those lines to the point of that level of investment, then go for it.

1. you don't know my debt balance

stop pocket watching, its weird

2. statistically, you're right as a DO I stand to match into FM/IM. however, and this may come as a shock to you, I have the ability to match into another specialty but even if I end up in IM, I can further specialize through actual real fellowships

You seem to be really happy with your decision to stay in podiatry, and I am truly glad for you. You may be one of the lucky ones. But for personal, and blatantly obvious, professional reasons, this is the best choice for me. This AMA is meant to be a space for others who may feel similar and want to ask questions or share their experiences with leaving.

 

[Robin-jay]

1. you don't know my debt balance

stop pocket watching, its weird

Doesn't change my previous statement.

statistically, you're right as a DO I stand to match into FM/IM. however, and this may come as a shock to you, I have the ability to match into another specialty but even if I end up in IM, I can further specialize through actual real fellowships

You seem to be really happy with your decision to stay in podiatry, and I am truly glad for you. You may be one of the lucky ones. But for personal, and blatantly obvious, professional reasons, this is the best choice for me. This AMA is meant to be a space for others who may feel similar and want to ask questions or share their experiences with leaving.

Correct, I was simply going on the most likely probability based on statistics, which is more likely FM/IM, etc...you could be a neurosurgery, but my point remains.

I'm not sure if I'm really content with podiatry or not in the grand scheme of things. But if I put the same amount of effort as putting in hard work and networking as a podiatrist as going through [ podiatry school + DO school + residency ] , then at the end of the day it's probably smarter financial decision to just be a podiatrist after going through podiatry school.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

congrats OP. I think this is awesome for you.

I think its a pretty common misconception that DO students only match into FM or IM, but its not accurate. and even if you do... IM and FM still pay more than the average pod... and you'll actually be respected.

I'd ignore all the negativity on here. Most of the people posting on this thread constantly crap on podiatry and are taking it out on you. jealously maybe? either way

 

[CleanDryandIntact]

I think the biggest pearl to this and what would be most helpful to those who had/currently have the feelings you did and weighing their options is, co$t

Can’t put a price on happine$$ per say, but if you could give a ball park estimate of post pod+DO tuition, that might be the most helpful to others

Congratulations on pursuing your life passions and I hope you absolutely accomplish all of your goals!

 

[unusualonion]

I think the biggest pearl to this and what would be most helpful to those who had/currently have the feelings you did and weighing their options is, co$t

Can’t put a price on happine$$ per say, but if you could give a ball park estimate of post pod+DO tuition, that might be the most helpful to others

Congratulations on pursuing your life passions and I hope you absolutely accomplish all of your goals!

To give a ballpark estimate:

Undergrad + post-bacc: <20k
Pod school: ~50k (i only paid tuition and fees, I returned/paid off all of the 'cost of living' money as my significant other is able to support us financially)

Total, previous loan balance: Around 70k, high for sure considering the average debt is around 30k for all borrowers

For DO school, assuming I attend the only school to which I have been accepted, it'll be around 50k in tuition+fees/yr (again all other COL refunds will be returned as my significant other is able to support us on their salary)

Total debt: 270K, even if we round up to 300k, thats average for medical school (i dont think it should really cost this much anyway).

So to @Robin-jay point, even if I end up in IM, where salaries are hovering around 245-280k with probably more in incetives and bonuses. The 1:1 ROI on this switch makes it financially sound. This is a price I am willing to pay for my own happiness.

Yeah if you have the better half of a milli in loans, then your milage may vary based on your specialty when you switch

 

[footshazam]

congrats OP. I think this is awesome for you.

I think its a pretty common misconception that DO students only match into FM or IM, but its not accurate. and even if you do... IM and FM still pay more than the average pod... and you'll actually be respected.

I'd ignore all the negativity on here. Most of the people posting on this thread constantly crap on podiatry and are taking it out on you. jealously maybe? either way

It’s definitely jealousy. He’s not happy about being in podiatry and instead of changing it would rather drag down someone and hate on someone who did… point blank period

 

[I Drink Riesling]

The 1:1 ROI on this switch makes it financially sound. This is a price I am willing to pay for my own happiness.

Well worth it and well within reason. You could easily pay that off 5 years post-residency.

 

[wakaflocka88]

Doesn't change my previous statement.


Correct, I was simply going on the most likely probability based on statistics, which is more likely FM/IM, etc...you could be a neurosurgery, but my point remains.

I'm not sure if I'm really content with podiatry or not in the grand scheme of things. But if I put the same amount of effort as putting in hard work and networking as a podiatrist as going through [ podiatry school + DO school + residency ] , then at the end of the day it's probably smarter financial decision to just be a podiatrist after going through podiatry school.

Come back in 3-4 years and then you can update your statement. You don’t know what you really don’t know.

 

[Prehealth1011]

I'm a DO, IM. I was just in the hospitalist job hunt until I matched fellowship. I'm a PGY3 and have classmates in other specialties currently applying for jobs so I have a rough idea of the offers they're getting

All I'll say is @unusualonion you'll be pleasantly surprised, even if it's FM/IM

Congratulations! PM me if you have any questions

 

[heybrother]

I wish the OP the best of luck in their future. What you ever do - I hope you love it, because after awhile it will be a job. Whenever I'm pounding notes I think - damn, am I going to do this for the rest of my life? The AI that listens while we speak to the patient and writes the notes for us can't come fast enough.

 

[PTPuser]

I wish I had the gonads to do that after first year but I was so conflicted. You made the right decision, congrats!

 

[Adam Smasher]

Being a DO is not a one-track path to FM/IM, and even so, FM/IM are not terrible end points.

 

[MicroPod]

FM and IM can get a good paying job anywhere they want to live. They also have opportunity for good fellowships if they so desire. Good job on doing what many here could not or would not.

 

[DPMGuy]

Why does everyone here act like FM/IM is terrible? As if podiatry is so great.

 

[JustAPedicurist]

Why does everyone here act like FM/IM is terrible? As if podiatry is so great.

Who would actually enjoy doing that is the question? I would rather cut nails than manage your blood pressure

 

[Adam Smasher]

Who would actually enjoy doing that is the question? I would rather cut nails than manage your blood pressure

Maybe it's grass-is-greener mentality, but I think outpatient management of chronic problems would be more interesting than grinding keratin.

The problem is FM is overrun with administrators and "quality" benchmarks. Plus medicine has gotten to be so corporatized that the FM doc gets treated like a laborer and has diminished autonomy which sucks the joy out of a very important profession.

Is it better to serve out a life sentence in nail jail? Who knows, we only have one life to live...

 

[PTPuser]

Who knows...my plan was originally wanting to be a PCP but clearly couldn't knock out the MCAT. But I was always the type to see myself doing a lot of things in medicine.

But from talking to friends, residents and attendings who are IM/FM, I would gladly take their struggle over the current situation in pod. In a heart beat, no second thought.

 

[wakaflocka88]

I personally cant think of a friend that does not enjoy FM/IM. They money is good, they live in the city they want, their kids are doing well. Not sure why residents are making these bold statements going against FM/IM as if it’s a bad specialty. You really have no clue about what you don’t know till you enter the pod work force.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Congrats, OP. Good luck in DO school.

Closing!