Should we be worried for the expansion of PA schools (Decrease in demand for PAs)?

[adamrose]

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Traditional Pre-med student. Graduating University @ Buffalo this may.
have been going back and forth with the idea of switching to PA for around a year.

I think that I am set with the job and all that comes with it for the good and the bad.

The prospects for the job demand seem almost too good to be true especially with more and more PA programs popping up.

Is this an issue?

My goal is to end up making 120-150k in a lucrative specialty and potentially partner into or open up my own practice.

(Not thinking of medicine only in terms of money, would have switched majors a long time ago if so)

 

[MusicDOc124]

If you want 120-150k and lucrative, go into finance or business. Those lucrative spots for Pas often require a couple years of experience, or expect a lower salary if they are going to train you. That said, salaries generally aren't that high unless you land a nice position at a nice place with experience. Then don't forget about malpractice if its not covered where you're practicing. If you partner into an existing practice, that's one thing, but to open one up yourself, don't forget about hiring a doctor to oversee your charts to whatever extent required by law and overhead.

Considering your main point was money and that you don't have a great defense for yourself indicating otherwise, you might be best off in finance or business.

Just my .02.

 

[adamrose]

Hi. I have looked into it on the PA forums. there has been a 6k increase in average job salary per year in the PA field. I have seen threads full of offers for new grads in the 85-100k range easy. I hope I am not being naive when I consider it possible to move into the 120-140s after 5-10 year experience. I have looked into the issue of owning your own practice. It is obviously not common but I have researched and there seems to be examples across the US in which PAs make it feasible.

As an EMT, i can say for sure I am heavily interested in taking care of people but I also love living life and having my own physical and mental health in check. That is why I see this job as right for me. Would love to hear a response

 

[MusicDOc124]

The highest paid PAs who work a normal schedule, or beyond normal schedule, get paid 120-130k. It is a relatively small percentage who get those paychecks, and they have a lot of experience in high paying fields. Otherwise, those who get paid more are working more (multiple jobs, per diem, overtime, etc) or own their own practice (read: have been established for a while). For those who have been established - consider the cost they ate when they opened the practice and had no patients. Overhead/bills plus startup loans. With minimal patients, you're looking at a $0 income until you begin being established due to paying said bills, paying employees (i.e. medical assistant, nurses, partners/other practitioners, and a physician). With where healthcare is going, good luck trying to open and maintain your own practice. It can be done, but good luck with that.

There's a lot you are overlooking, and you are very optimistic. Outside looking in: it looks like you're in it for the money.

What field do you want to work in, by the way?

 

[adamrose]

If I went the MD/DO route --> Physiatry
Pa route --> Surgical/Derm.

I know it may seem that way.
I come from a family making less than $50,000 a year. I have spent my whole undergraduate career suffering from it socially mentally and sometimes physically. my biggest fear of med school is having to continue living with minimal financial support (aside from loans) basically until i finish residency in my early 30's - at which point I would have 250k in loans that would roughly amount to ~600k By the time it would be paid back 20 years down the line.

When I compare this to PA school, coming out at 25 years old with around 150k in loans and quickly being in control of my financial future it seems almost too tempting. I reasoned that even after 10 years as a PA(35y/o) it would still be more financially successful than being in the same position as a doctor at 35 years old

Could you try to give me the other side of the argument on this?

 

[MusicDOc124]

Why physiatry as an MD/DO, but not as a PA? Why Surgery or Derm as a PA, but not as an MD/DO?

There is nothing wrong with wanting to, and becoming, a PA - unless it is for the money to be made. What I'm getting at is that you come off as a pretentious d*uche by saying you want to make more than some of the top paid PAs while working lucratively as if you would obtain those positions as a new grad, and as if making a lot of money is your only goal.

You're going to have debt regardless. Pick want you want, but don't do it for money and prepare for debt in either direction unless you get scholarships, grants, etc. Also, do more research into the PA profession and with new grads to find abut a little more about what to expect, realistically. Give physicianassistantforum.com a try. The entire forum is dedicated to PAs and PA students/Pre-PA students. There are also forums on there regarding PA-owned practices. They can give you a lot of insight to the reality of being a PA, what you can expect to earn off the bat, and the difficulties and hoops to jump through with establishing a practice of your own as a PA.

Good luck with what you decide.

 

[adamrose]

thank you for the advice i will check the forum out

 

[pamac]

I personally know quite a few PAs across various specialties. The one that does the best works in derm, and has a considerable amount of previous experience, and they break $130k with bonus. The market by me is getting to the point where a new grad will happily take $75k to get experience as a PA right out if school in the hope of hanging around and moving on to something better paying. If you want to live in a place nobody really wants to live, you can find a job, but you are also living in a place where the cost of living is low, and employers take that into consideration and try to pay you at a level commensurate with your surroundings, so I've heard that going to the less desirable locales is not all it's cracked up to be either. You can get debt paid off that way though. I have an inner city friend that got a debt repayment gig and got great experience while still having access to the big city. Not knowing where you are, the market base wages could fluctuate a lot so nobody can really tell you for certain what you'd be making but averages that I've read seem to be pretty reasonable for folks with experience. I will say that the nurse anesthetists I know easily make $150k working 3 days a week. I also know several psyche NPs (who essentially work for themselves independently) make over that much as well. Those are just the ones I know, so that's not universal. Contrast that with the hospitalists NP I work with that said they made more as a nurse supervisor at night, and you see a wide range. My friend (psyche NP) told me that once I became an NP, if I got a psyche cert, I'd double my current income overnight. Right now I'm a night nurse making $70k. My buddy is his own boss and contracts out services.