Should we have a Plan B? Not Accepted...yet

[kn190390]

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Writing this on behalf of my husband. He applied to 16 dental schools this cycle. He is a non-traditional student, age 27, with an undergrad in mechanical engineering from a NJ state school and did a post-bac at another NJ state school.

GPA Breakdown:
BCP: 3.58
Science: 3.44
Non-Science: 3.67
Total: 3.47

DAT: 18 (not totally sure of the breakdown)

He has well over 100 hours of shadowing and is now managing a dental office. I’m worried now that he hasn’t be accepted anywhere yet and has only had 2 interviews (LECOM pre-December and UMDNJ post-December)…I’m not sure what to do. Our number 1 school is UMDNJ – (and the dentist who wrote is LOR is an alumni) so we’re still hoping on that one.

Is there hope for him? Or should we make plans for either a masters program or just re applying for next cycle? Is there anything he can do to enhance his application? 😕😕😕

Boston University No word
Columbia University Rejected
Georgia Health Sciences Rejected
Harvard Rejected
Howard No word
LECOM-FL Rejected - following an interview he thought went great
Marquette University HOLD
NYU No word
Stony Brook University No word
Temple University No word
Tufts University No word
University of Buffalo No word
University of Connecticut Rejected
UMDNJ Pending - just went on interview 12/14
University of Pennsylvania Rejected
Virginia Commonwealth No word


This whole process is draining on our family 🙁 😱

 

[r2thekesh]

State schools post December 1st show the least movement, so UMDNJ would be a low probability. If I were betting, I would use a plan B. If I were him, I would be e-mailing schools, asking for advice on what to do. Did he check with schools whether his pre-reqs weren't out of date?

 

[Tunaman]

Also a non-trad student. Dont give up hope and tell him to stick to dentistry if its truly his passion. GPA seems solid, he might have to improve his DAT's slightly. With a 19/20/21 I got close to 7 interviews this cycle and acceptances from all. But I must remind you that this was my 3rd time applying and I took the DAT 3x's. I am truly passionate about the field and I wasnt taking "No" for an answer. Even during my interviews this cycle, the interviewers asked me what I would do if I didnt get into their program...I said "there is no alternative, I'll apply until I get in". Please PM me if you have specific questions or need advice on how he can better prepare for the DAT next time around. If you listen to schools like UMDNJ, they'll tell you to go into their masters program at RUtgers, which in the end gives you absolutely no edge, they claim it gives you a better foundation for the DAT which is absolute BS

 

[monkeyteeth]

First, when did he submit the app? That is important. May be it's because the DAT score tends to skew to the higher side on SDN but AA of 18 is a bit on the lower end. Boston got tons of apps so you have to stand out. Georgia: no idea. Columbia, Harvard: you already knew what to expected. Howard: are u an UR minority?. If not then forget it. Same thing for the others schools: high GPA, DAT for VCU, PENN, NYU got 5k of applications😱, Stony Brook: too NY in-state for your taste. I think he still has a shot at NJ since he is in-state. Just wait....there's still hope

 

[sacapuntas]

Hold out hope for this cycle because there is time left still, but I would tell him to consider a DAT retake if he thinks he can do better. But more importantly, chose schools wisely to apply to next cycle. Basically he applied to a fair number of 'reach' schools that for different reasons (residency, DAT, lots of applicants etc) are really hard to get interviews at.

Just stick with it, he has a great GPA, good experiences and will stand a great shot next year with a little bit wiser school choices. Reference the 'what schools should I apply to' in the sticky or make a thread before next cycle opens up to get advice on specific schools.

Good luck!

 

[MultiSportD]

I'm also an non-trad applicant. I applied to 26 schools all over the country. I think your stats are fine. You may want to reconsider taking the DAT again if you feel that you could improve and there were some sections that you didn't score well. Without the breakdown, it's hard to say.

As for schools, I would think schools like your background older, mechanical engineering degree. Does your husband have any professional experience? Besides academia, what other extra-curriculars does your husband do? Was this expressed in your application? As for personal statement, how was it done? How did you express your switch from mech. to dentistry? For me, it was gradual from comp sci. to dentistry after life experiences. Also what kind of volunteer work outside of dentistry did he do? Research? As for school selection, I've noticed that most of the schools applied to are on the east coast or near it. Perhaps you could think about applying more broadly to the midwest and west coast. Sacapuntas has it right, apply to schools which fit you. For instance do research and find out where your GPA/DAT/Age fits in the class. I used the ADEA dental school guide to help me decide where to apply and classified schools as safe or reach schools.

As a fellow non-trad, good luck. PM me if you have any more questions.

 

[mmmsteakdinners]

Your husband should not have applied to 7 of the 16 schools he applied to. If you are not successful this cycle, definitely buy the ADEA handbook and reevaluate your list. I can think of 4 schools off the top of my head that could be better fits. Good luck

 

[SES0112]

State schools post December 1st show the least movement, so UMDNJ would be a low probability. If I were betting, I would use a plan B. If I were him, I would be e-mailing schools, asking for advice on what to do. Did he check with schools whether his pre-reqs weren't out of date?

I've not heard this, so him being in state he has a less chance of hearing bc he did not hear back on Dec. 1? 😕

 

[r2thekesh]

I've not heard this, so him being in state he has a less chance of hearing bc he did not hear back on Dec. 1? 😕

If you look at the number of people a state school has to accept to fill its spots versus a private school like NYU, Tufts, USC, or BU has to accept; it is a lot lower. So therefore waitlists are less likely to move.
For example:
Let's say I'm a NJ resident who was accepted to UMDNJ and NYU. I would guess because of the extreme difference in price, I would go to UMDNJ. NYU would have to move their waitlist by one and UMDNJ would not. So extrapolate that to all applicants and you will understand my thought process. If you want numbers, look at the threads where people are listing the acceptances they are giving up. You will see many more NYU acceptances given up because people are going to cheaper schools or whatever other reason.

 

[vinnie83]

As a 29 year old non traditional student in my first year of dental school who is also a former mechanical engineer here are my 2 cents.

Should you have a plan B? Yes, being older, having a family, and in turn having much more responsibility than a 22 year old kid still in undergrad you should have HAD A PLAN B before heading down the application road. I apologize if I'm coming off a little harsh, but I have multiple friends who have made significant plans for their future based on the assumption that they are without fail going to get that job, new assignment in a particular part of the country, or spot in a graduate program with no thought to what happens if it falls through. My wife and I talked at length about what would happen if I didn't get in and also about a lot of other factors such as the implications of where I got in and how that would affect her work, whether or not I got scholarships, etc. Our plan B was that I kept working as an engineer through the application process and up until a few weeks before school started. Also, "what is your backup plan?" is an extremely common interview question so for any other predents reading this I suggest in addition to having a plan you are ready to discuss it in an interview.

You mentioned your husband applying to a master's program. This is an effective way to boost his GPA (not that he needs it) and may show a level of dedication, but I don't work in admissions so that is questionable. A masters program will cost money- both tuition while in school and also all the money that he isn't earning because he is a full time student. My opinion is that it isn't worth it.

The one glaring thing I see in your husband's numbers is the low DAT score. Retaking this cycle may not be feasible or even helpful as at this point he is pretty much waiting for spots to open up on a waiting list, but he should start studying to retake it for the next application cycle if it comes to that.

How much contact did he have with the school prior to interview invitations being sent out? How much recent contact has he had? Has let them know how interested he is in their program and asked about the chance of getting an interview this late in the game?

My recommendation is to first contact all schools he hasn't received a rejection letter from and let them know he is still interested, ask if any more interview invitations are being sent out, etc. While the probability of getting in will go down as it gets later in the cycle I have quite a few classmates who got their one and only acceptance offer in the spring or early summer. Second start studying to retake the DATs now for next cycle as a backup plan. Third, if you have to reapply get your application, scores, LORs etc in immediately when the next cycle opens. Fourth, be proactive (but not annoying) when interacting with school during the application cycle.

Good luck to you and your husband in not only getting in, but all the real stuff that comes after you start school.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

 

[lilpumpkin]

As a 29 year old non traditional student in my first year of dental school who is also a former mechanical engineer here are my 2 cents.

Should you have a plan B? Yes, being older, having a family, and in turn having much more responsibility than a 22 year old kid still in undergrad you should have HAD A PLAN B before heading down the application road. I apologize if I'm coming off a little harsh, but I have multiple friends who have made significant plans for their future based on the assumption that they are without fail going to get that job, new assignment in a particular part of the country, or spot in a graduate program with no thought to what happens if it falls through. My wife and I talked at length about what would happen if I didn't get in and also about a lot of other factors such as the implications of where I got in and how that would affect her work, whether or not I got scholarships, etc. Our plan B was that I kept working as an engineer through the application process and up until a few weeks before school started. Also, "what is your backup plan?" is an extremely common interview question so for any other predents reading this I suggest in addition to having a plan you are ready to discuss it in an interview.

You mentioned your husband applying to a master's program. This is an effective way to boost his GPA (not that he needs it) and may show a level of dedication, but I don't work in admissions so that is questionable. A masters program will cost money- both tuition while in school and also all the money that he isn't earning because he is a full time student. My opinion is that it isn't worth it.

The one glaring thing I see in your husband's numbers is the low DAT score. Retaking this cycle may not be feasible or even helpful as at this point he is pretty much waiting for spots to open up on a waiting list, but he should start studying to retake it for the next application cycle if it comes to that.

How much contact did he have with the school prior to interview invitations being sent out? How much recent contact has he had? Has let them know how interested he is in their program and asked about the chance of getting an interview this late in the game?

My recommendation is to first contact all schools he hasn't received a rejection letter from and let them know he is still interested, ask if any more interview invitations are being sent out, etc. While the probability of getting in will go down as it gets later in the cycle I have quite a few classmates who got their one and only acceptance offer in the spring or early summer. Second start studying to retake the DATs now for next cycle as a backup plan. Third, if you have to reapply get your application, scores, LORs etc in immediately when the next cycle opens. Fourth, be proactive (but not annoying) when interacting with school during the application cycle.

Good luck to you and your husband in not only getting in, but all the real stuff that comes after you start school.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

👍👍👍 to the above. So very well put!!!

Having a plan B is not optional, especially when you start factoring age and marriage/family commitments, etc., not to mention how many times he is willing to reapply and/or do things to amp up his application (like retaking the DAT), considering y'alls current family situation. All those things will take much more time, effort, and money.

This is my 4th application cycle. I totally messed up in undergrad. Horrible GPA, too many F's than I care to think about. In hindsight, I probably wasn't smart enough to be at the school I chose to go to. I should've taken the full scholarship I was offered for a smaller, private no-name college (advice for my future children). Anyway, my GPA was awful. So, feeling like I really had no other choice, took a Masters in Biomedical Science to try to make up for all those bad undergrad marks, in which I am proud to say I only made one B. In grad school also did a great deal of cancer research and even had my name on a paper that was published! While in grad school I worked as a part-time orthodontic assistant so I had close to 3,000 dental hours for my application. I also did some medical/dental mission and volunteer work. My DAT AA is a solid 20, 19TS and a whopping 28 in RC. Even though this probably sounds really great...I am still on the outside looking in. I'm still looking for that one school to take me, and I'm not getting any younger.

I do agree with everyone that has said, "if you really feel that dentistry is your calling, go for it." GO. FOR. IT!!!! I am happy to say that this cycle, I finally received my first interview. I am attributing this majorly to having completed my Masters degree. I don't know if your husband necessarily needs one, since his GPA actually look pretty good, to me. I know there are many people who have made it to dental school with lower GPAs than his. I strongly suggest, though, retaking the DAT- really knock it out of the park.

But back to my original statement: I think you definitely need to come up with a plan B. It's hard to compete with undergrad kids with perfect GPAs and not many other commitments or responsibilities to worry about. I knew that if I decided to keep applying to dental school, those would be the type of people I'd be up against- and boy, is it a tough fight. Realistically, I had to ask myself, how many more years did I want to keep trying? Based on what I want for myself personally (I'd like to start having kids at 30), I decided I needed to find something stable I could fall back on in case dental school didn't work out. My masters helped me land my AWESOME current job now: I'm a coordinator of Phase I clinical trials at a world-famous research institution and cancer hospital. I have awesome medical/dental/vision benefits, job stability, and a pretty nice salary. Granted, it's not my #1 dream, but it is a wonderful and solid plan B. In case dental school doesn't work out, I have this. It isn't replacing the dream of going to dental school, and it doesn't have to mean your husband should stop trying to get there.

But you know what happens...you start making plans, and SURPRISE! You get an interview/acceptance. My boyfriend and I were talking about getting married in the next two years and BOOM, I get a dental school interview and BOOM, so does he! Hahaha! Well, there goes that! Ah. Such is life. You certainly can't plan for everything, but plan for the things you are able to plan for.

Best of luck to you, your husband and your family

 

[OMF_HNS]

👍loved how this has come thus far. GOOD LUCK to you and your boyfriend!

👍👍👍 to the above. So very well put!!!

Having a plan B is not optional, especially when you start factoring age and marriage/family commitments, etc., not to mention how many times he is willing to reapply and/or do things to amp up his application (like retaking the DAT), considering y'alls current family situation. All those things will take much more time, effort, and money.

This is my 4th application cycle. I totally messed up in undergrad. Horrible GPA, too many F's than I care to think about. In hindsight, I probably wasn't smart enough to be at the school I chose to go to. I should've taken the full scholarship I was offered for a smaller, private no-name college (advice for my future children). Anyway, my GPA was awful. So, feeling like I really had no other choice, took a Masters in Biomedical Science to try to make up for all those bad undergrad marks, in which I am proud to say I only made one B. In grad school also did a great deal of cancer research and even had my name on a paper that was published! While in grad school I worked as a part-time orthodontic assistant so I had close to 3,000 dental hours for my application. I also did some medical/dental mission and volunteer work. My DAT AA is a solid 20, 19TS and a whopping 28 in RC. Even though this probably sounds really great...I am still on the outside looking in. I'm still looking for that one school to take me, and I'm not getting any younger.

I do agree with everyone that has said, "if you really feel that dentistry is your calling, go for it." GO. FOR. IT!!!! I am happy to say that this cycle, I finally received my first interview. I am attributing this majorly to having completed my Masters degree. I don't know if your husband necessarily needs one, since his GPA actually look pretty good, to me. I know there are many people who have made it to dental school with lower GPAs than his. I strongly suggest, though, retaking the DAT- really knock it out of the park.

But back to my original statement: I think you definitely need to come up with a plan B. It's hard to compete with undergrad kids with perfect GPAs and not many other commitments or responsibilities to worry about. I knew that if I decided to keep applying to dental school, those would be the type of people I'd be up against- and boy, is it a tough fight. Realistically, I had to ask myself, how many more years did I want to keep trying? Based on what I want for myself personally (I'd like to start having kids at 30), I decided I needed to find something stable I could fall back on in case dental school didn't work out. My masters helped me land my AWESOME current job now: I'm a coordinator of Phase I clinical trials at a world-famous research institution and cancer hospital. I have awesome medical/dental/vision benefits, job stability, and a pretty nice salary. Granted, it's not my #1 dream, but it is a wonderful and solid plan B. In case dental school doesn't work out, I have this. It isn't replacing the dream of going to dental school, and it doesn't have to mean your husband should stop trying to get there.

But you know what happens...you start making plans, and SURPRISE! You get an interview/acceptance. My boyfriend and I were talking about getting married in the next two years and BOOM, I get a dental school interview and BOOM, so does he! Hahaha! Well, there goes that! Ah. Such is life. You certainly can't plan for everything, but plan for the things you are able to plan for.

Best of luck to you, your husband and your family

 

[lilpumpkin]

THANKS, lbj and congrats on your acceptance! I am on the alternate list for OU. I'm hoping to snag a spot once OOSers decline next month! Best of luck to you too and the next big step in your life! 🙂

 

[ChronarchB]

Another tricky requirement that some schools are moving to is that all "required coursework" be within a certin period of time ~mainly 5 years or less. Being that he is 27 he may be pushing that limit. Double check to see which schools accept older coursework.

 

[R3DEUCE]

Writing this on behalf of my husband. He applied to 16 dental schools this cycle. He is a non-traditional student, age 27, with an undergrad in mechanical engineering from a NJ state school and did a post-bac at another NJ state school.

GPA Breakdown:
BCP: 3.58
Science: 3.44
Non-Science: 3.67
Total: 3.47

DAT: 18 (not totally sure of the breakdown)

He has well over 100 hours of shadowing and is now managing a dental office. I'm worried now that he hasn't be accepted anywhere yet and has only had 2 interviews (LECOM pre-December and UMDNJ post-December)…I'm not sure what to do. Our number 1 school is UMDNJ – (and the dentist who wrote is LOR is an alumni) so we're still hoping on that one.

Is there hope for him? Or should we make plans for either a masters program or just re applying for next cycle? Is there anything he can do to enhance his application? 😕😕😕

Boston University No word
Columbia University Rejected
Georgia Health Sciences Rejected
Harvard Rejected
Howard No word
LECOM-FL Rejected - following an interview he thought went great
Marquette University HOLD
NYU No word
Stony Brook University No word
Temple University No word
Tufts University No word
University of Buffalo No word
University of Connecticut Rejected
UMDNJ Pending - just went on interview 12/14
University of Pennsylvania Rejected
Virginia Commonwealth No word


This whole process is draining on our family 🙁 😱

PLAN A is just fine. I'm 30, BA in Public Administration. This is my second career. Trust me, I'm as non traditional as it gets. GPA is great, only fall back is that DAT. It's average. A lot of students with great GPAs are not getting in because of their DAT. If nothing happens this cycle, I would retake the DAT. But I wouldn't even think negatively at this point. UMDNJ doesn't give out many interviews Post December because they wrap things up in January. But pretty much, if they have decided to interview you, it's because you're someone they would accept... Unless you mess up that interview royally but it's very lax. Everyone is very nice there. I got in this cycle along with 2 other non trads. So have hope and don't worry about plan B!

 

[kn190390]

PLAN A is just fine. I'm 30, BA in Public Administration. This is my second career. Trust me, I'm as non traditional as it gets. GPA is great, only fall back is that DAT. It's average. A lot of students with great GPAs are not getting in because of their DAT. If nothing happens this cycle, I would retake the DAT. But I wouldn't even think negatively at this point. UMDNJ doesn't give out many interviews Post December because they wrap things up in January. But pretty much, if they have decided to interview you, it's because you're someone they would accept... Unless you mess up that interview royally but it's very lax. Everyone is very nice there. I got in this cycle along with 2 other non trads. So have hope and don't worry about plan B!

Thanks for your reply.

We actually found out from LECOM that although he was rejected post interview they are reconsidering his application - apparently they didn't "realize" he was a mechanical engineer with over 150 credit hours of science that was not calculated into BCP. - so hopefully that's a good sign.

Interview at UMDNJ last friday went really well (according to him)

 

[sacapuntas]

Thanks for your reply.

We actually found out from LECOM that although he was rejected post interview they are reconsidering his application - apparently they didn't "realize" he was a mechanical engineer with over 150 credit hours of science that was not calculated into BCP. - so hopefully that's a good sign.

Interview at UMDNJ last friday went really well (according to him)

It's amazing what schools that invite you to interviews miss on your application. You would think they would review major points of an application before inviting to an interview, but at 2 different schools they didn't realize I graduated with my first degree about 5 years ago...they thought I was presently at that school still and 21 or 22 years old. If they would have even read the first paragraph of my personal statement they would have known differently.

All that to say, sorry they didn't read his file thoroughly the first time, and best of luck with the re-review!