Sick days in Psych Residency

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
T

twospadz

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
591
Reaction score
747
Points
5,436
  1. Attending Physician
Members do not see this ad.
I know other residencies look down on sick days. How is using sick days viewed at your residency/program? We get 12 sick days a year
However I still feel it is generally looked down upon. Although I feel psych residency especially when on outpatient rotations should be more chill about it.
 
Sick days are your sick days. You decide how to use them. You don't need to be hospitalized to justify a sick day. I've used more than half of mine. I don't feel bad about it at all, nor should I. No one "looks down" on using sick days in my program. Now, that being said, if you use a sick day and then post on social media flaunting that you're not really sick, the program will have words. But I don't get why we should feel any different about using sick days than any other profession..
 
If your too sick to work 12 days a year then nobody should complain if you take all of them. If you not too sick to work then you should take zero of them a year.

Edit- also fine to use them for dentist/doc/therapy apts but plan ahead so it’s not screwing another resident
 
Our program technically has unlimited sick days. If you are out for more than 3 they do expect you to provide documentation of illness and engage our short-term disability policy. People definitely avoid taking them but no one I know of has ever gotten grief for reasonable use.
 
Our program encourages us to use them, and I've used them to schedule days off for appointments with my PCP, dentist, optometrist, etc. I think it's a program to program thing, not a thing common to psychiatry as a field.
 
And be aware that once you are done with residency and working where ever, no one is going to give a hoot about you and any perceived badge of honor you might have about coming into work sick and never using your days. Employers are cold hard entities that have an HR department not for your benefit but for their own CYA. (most places have policies that actually say if you are sick you better stay home...)

In other words, once a staff doc you better use your benefits, because chances are when you move on from that job it'll start to sink in 'Why didn't I use all my time off?"
 
As management, I can tell you that the culture to not use sick days comes from the residents who have to cover for the person out sick. If anything, faculty spend their energy protecting people who are out sick from criticism/retaliation. There are firm HR rules that I have learned to quote fairly frequently.
 
If I'm on a block where a resident doesn't need to cover for me I take sick days whenever I think I need them. If someone has to cover for me, I am much more reluctant to take sick days.
 
tellme_areyoufree said:
Our program encourages us to use them, and I've used them to schedule days off for appointments with my PCP, dentist, optometrist, etc. I think it's a program to program thing, not a thing common to psychiatry as a field.
Click to expand...
Just to reinforce this point. There are program to program variations on what constitutes a sick day and is usually defined by a policy. In my program sick time is time for sickness. Dr's visits etc come from a personal time bucket.
 
psychattending said:
Just to reinforce this point. There are program to program variations on what constitutes a sick day and is usually defined by a policy. In my program sick time is time for sickness. Dr's visits etc come from a personal time bucket.
Click to expand...

This. For us sick days are for when we are too sick to work regardless of who has to cover (usually other residents but occasionally attendings). We use sick days rarely and do not hassle each other when coverage is needed. Sick days are also used to get paid time off for FMLA.

Nonurgent appointments are scheduled during elective blocks, rotations where leaving in the afternoon isn't a problem or using personal days in a way that does not cause undue burden on others (within reason).
 
Our program is extremely friendly with respect to utilizing all of our PTO. For what it's worth, our PTO is in a single bucket and includes days off for vacation, sick days, and conferences. I don't know of any residents that have had difficulty taking time off for whatever reason, sick days or no.
 
I'm gonna use some of my sick days. Not all though. Probably 25% of them though. Like I said we get 12 sick days a year. I will use 1 or 2 on outpatient rotations. And I will use a few during my pgy 3 year. I would never call out sick on a inpatient rotation unless it was emergent.
 
How exactly is this enforced at your institutions?

I'm starting residency this year and our contract has a month of vacation, 12 sick days, and a few personal days. I've never had a setup like this because at work I used to have an 'earned time' setup but I guess I'm confused about what the point of having sick days is if you can't really use them...

I understand needing a doctors note if you're taking like 3+ days off in a row, but if you end up taking 3-4 sick days as personal days over the course of the year. Apparently our 'personal day' pot is for doctors appointments etc.

I guess I'm best off asking current residents when I get there what the deal is.
 
You might also ask your graduate medical education administration because this is likely to be the actual answer and it is likely to be different than what residents say.
 
Heard that some residency program directors constantly threaten to document anyone who became sick close to holidays or near weekends. They would personally email residents and then write them up and build up a file on them. So highly discouraged to say the least.
 
ridethecliche said:
How exactly is this enforced at your institutions?

I'm starting residency this year and our contract has a month of vacation, 12 sick days, and a few personal days. I've never had a setup like this because at work I used to have an 'earned time' setup but I guess I'm confused about what the point of having sick days is if you can't really use them...

I understand needing a doctors note if you're taking like 3+ days off in a row, but if you end up taking 3-4 sick days as personal days over the course of the year. Apparently our 'personal day' pot is for doctors appointments etc.

I guess I'm best off asking current residents when I get there what the deal is.
Click to expand...

Probably very dependent on your own institution's policies.

At my institution, sick days are approved by the program coordinator, and our program coordinator does not require any meaningful documentation to "prove" that you are "sick." The result is the known "secret" that you can take "sick days" as vacation days, however residents also generally know on which rotations this is appropriate to do and which ones it is not.

I have never had the program coordinator question my sick days when I've taken them. All I've had to say is "I'm out sick and have notified Dr. *** [attending]."
 
NickNaylor said:
Probably very dependent on your own institution's policies.

At my institution, sick days are approved by the program coordinator, and our program coordinator does not require any meaningful documentation to "prove" that you are "sick." The result is the known "secret" that you can take "sick days" as vacation days, however residents also generally know on which rotations this is appropriate to do and which ones it is not.

I have never had the program coordinator question my sick days when I've taken them. All I've had to say is "I'm out sick and have notified Dr. *** [attending]."
Click to expand...

So at your program residents lie about being sick to take vacation days?
 
Merely said:
So at your program residents lie about being sick to take vacation days?
Click to expand...

Essentially. I would say this happens more due to fatigue than anything else because, again, we have zero problem taking PTO days across the program, and all PTO comes out of the same bucket. There's no real advantage to using "sick days" vs. vacation days other than vacation days must be submitted a week in advance, per the policy of our employing hospital. Obviously you can get around that with sick days.
 
Merely said:
So at your program residents lie about being sick to take vacation days?
Click to expand...
I like to think of it like working a regular job. Anyone who's worked a job before medicine or has spouse or family that does, knows that people take sick days for a variety of reasons. Often because they just aren't feeling it that day. Though it's only an option on rotations where we aren't essential.
 
When is graduation again? said:
I like to think of it like working a regular job. Anyone who's worked a job before medicine or has spouse or family that does, knows that people take sick days for a variety of reasons. Often because they just aren't feeling it that day. Though it's only an option on rotations where we aren't essential.
Click to expand...

And the quicker you start thinking of residency as a "regular job" the better you will be positioned for life after residency. The "system" though does not encourage residents to think of this manner. No one will be shedding tears when you take the sick days you earned in the contract as employers will try to milk every penny out of you in a myriad of ways. Of course one has to take coverage and basic decency in consideration.
 
When is graduation again? said:
I like to think of it like working a regular job. Anyone who's worked a job before medicine or has spouse or family that does, knows that people take sick days for a variety of reasons. Often because they just aren't feeling it that day. Though it's only an option on rotations where we aren't essential.
Click to expand...

This is exactly my thinking. I worked for a while before school. All of my days used to come out of the same pot outside of extended sick leave which I luckily never had to do.
 
When is graduation again? said:
I like to think of it like working a regular job. Anyone who's worked a job before medicine or has spouse or family that does, knows that people take sick days for a variety of reasons. Often because they just aren't feeling it that day. Though it's only an option on rotations where we aren't essential.
Click to expand...

For real. You think all those nurses or techs who "call in sick" are actually sick? They know it's use it or lose it with sick days and it's pretty hard to force someone to prove they're sick unless you're out for multiple days at a time.
 
This whole notion of being "allowed" to use sick days is beyond ridiculous and always selective. If a resident is sick typically an attending or NP/PA staff are required to cover, not be encourage residents to fight amonst each other. They should not get in trouble for using sick days if they are legally allocated the time. Threatening residents who call in sick on specified rotations is more associated with poor coverage and almost always about money. This is reflective of a residency program too scared to confront the executives of the hospitals for understaffing the facilities and finding it easier placing the onus on to residents to feel shame or fight amonst each other. You will never see these same malignant residency directors, and faculty threaten to call out their superiors for not showing up sick (real or not) or gleefully take it themselves.
 
Last edited:
Im currently in 3rd year. I feel like if I called out sick it wouldn't be an issue at all. I typically ask them to block out the day Im going to call sick a month in advance which will not burden others to see my patient's that day. We get 12 sick days a year. im really thinking about using 8 of them, We also get 6 personal days and 20 days vacation a year.
 
twospadz said:
Im currently in 3rd year. I feel like if I called out sick it wouldn't be an issue at all. I typically ask them to block out the day Im going to call sick a month in advance which will not burden others to see my patient's that day. We get 12 sick days a year. im really thinking about using 8 of them, We also get 6 personal days and 20 days vacation a year.
Click to expand...

Haha what? Unless you’ve got doctors appointments you’re scheduling for that day I think it’ll be pretty obvious that you’re not sick if you’re blocking your clinic a month in advance. I also think you should read your employee handbook very closely cause I could see you getting fired (or at least put on probation) pretty easily for something this obvious.
 
When is graduation again? said:
I like to think of it like working a regular job. Anyone who's worked a job before medicine or has spouse or family that does, knows that people take sick days for a variety of reasons. Often because they just aren't feeling it that day. Though it's only an option on rotations where we aren't essential.
Click to expand...
If you're fortunate enough to have an employer who offers sick time, then know that employer's policy and follow it. Notify the people who need to be notified in a timely manner. Treat it like a job for which you would like to be rehired.
 
If you simply put the sick time in with vacation time it would reward those who did not abuse it.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Haha what? Unless you’ve got doctors appointments you’re scheduling for that day I think it’ll be pretty obvious that you’re not sick if you’re blocking your clinic a month in advance. I also think you should read your employee handbook very closely cause I could see you getting fired (or at least put on probation) pretty easily for something this obvious.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I would have doctor appointments for that day. Thats why i could justify using a sick day in advance
 
Seeing these threads makes me so annoyed. It just makes me realize how ridiculous my institution is regarding sick days/vacations/PTO. We get 3 wks of vacation, 5 conference days and 5 "sick/personal" days. We have to request vacations and conferences 20 wks in advance. We have to get approval for sick days (and obviously conference and vacation days) from our program coordinator AND program director, and there are only a handful of rotations a year that are "vacation eligible". If we have anything left at the end of the year, they don't accumulate and we get no compensation for them.

Please take advantage of your PTO.
 
Last edited:
hallowmann said:
Seeing these threads makes me so annoyed. It just makes me realize how ridiculous my institution is regarding sick days/vacations/PTO. We get 3 wks of vacation, 5 conference days and 5 "sick/personal" days. We have to request vacations and conferences 20 wks in advance. We have to get approval for sick days (and obviously conference and vacation days) from our program coordinator AND program director, and there are only a handful of rotations a year that are "vacation eligible". If we have anything left at the end of the year, they don't accumulate and we get no compensation for them.

Please take advantage of your PTO.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the culture in some places can be like this, other places that value physicians more are looser..
 
hallowmann said:
Seeing these threads makes me so annoyed. It just makes me realize how ridiculous my institution is regarding sick days/vacations/PTO. We get 3 wks of vacation, 5 conference days and 5 "sick/personal" days. We have to request vacations and conferences 20 wks in advance. We have to get approval for sick days (and obviously conference and vacation days) from our program coordinator AND program director, and there are only a handful of rotations a year that are "vacation eligible". If we have anything left at the end of the year, they don't accumulate and we get no compensation for them.

Please take advantage of your PTO.
Click to expand...
Oh, you will find that same degree of bureaucracy and oversight even in the jobs with health systems. The med director, office manager all need to sign off on it, and some policy some where in the health system also says you have to submit them 60, 90, 120 days in advance. And because it is a group there may rules about the clinic always needing to be open, so that means not every can take time off for the APA conference, or other key holiday stretches. If you have inpatient obligations, add an extra layer of vacation issues to it.

Solution: open your own practice. Vacation, meetings, conferences, sick days, etc all on your terms.
 
Sushirolls said:
Oh, you will find that same degree of bureaucracy and oversight even in the jobs with health systems. The med director, office manager all need to sign off on it, and some policy some where in the health system also says you have to submit them 60, 90, 120 days in advance. And because it is a group there may rules about the clinic always needing to be open, so that means not every can take time off for the APA conference, or other key holiday stretches. If you have inpatient obligations, add an extra layer of vacation issues to it.

Solution: open your own practice. Vacation, meetings, conferences, sick days, etc all on your terms.
Click to expand...

but at the same time, take sick days in private practice = you don't get paid
 
MedMan80 said:
but at the same time, take sick days in private practice = you don't get paid
Click to expand...
Even though other employed jobs might have a paid time off, really its just stealing from your productivity, storing it, and redistributing later. You will be paid less for the comfort of saying you have a paid days off.

I for one feel comfortable with budgeting to account for this, not really an issue, especially when gross income at end of year is higher.
 
Use the sick days in residency. They cost about at least 1-2k in the real world whether your in PP or other 1099 work. Now if you work for the VA on a salary....
 
I don't understand what some people are saying on this thread. Sick days are Sick days. If you're sick you take them off. My strict Asian parents were so tough on me as a kid that I would be forced to go to school unless I was super sick with the flu. In medical school, when we had ward based rotations, I remember that we were discouraged about calling in sick. I just feel so guilty even now that if I have minor sniffles or an upset stomach where I've only been able to get a few hours of rest, I try to increase my caffeine intake to pull through. I have used a few sick days but only when I am not feeling well to the point where I can't even drive out of the home.

we also don't get reimbursed for unused sick time.
 
shahseh22 said:
I don't understand what some people are saying on this thread. Sick days are Sick days. If you're sick you take them off. My strict Asian parents were so tough on me as a kid that I would be forced to go to school unless I was super sick with the flu. In medical school, when we had ward based rotations, I remember that we were discouraged about calling in sick. I just feel so guilty even now that if I have minor sniffles or an upset stomach where I've only been able to get a few hours of rest, I try to increase my caffeine intake to pull through. I have used a few sick days but only when I am not feeling well to the point where I can't even drive out of the home.

we also don't get reimbursed for unused sick time.
Click to expand...

I have a feeling this thread was born due to a similar thread in the General Residency forum in which people from other specialties had a stroke over someone daring to mention taking a "mental health day" and the conversation devolved to the evils of taking a sick day for any reason. The belief there was that even if you're vomiting, you should show up to work until someone dismisses you.
 
Mass Effect said:
I have a feeling this thread was born due to a similar thread in the General Residency forum in which people from other specialties had a stroke over someone daring to mention taking a "mental health day" and the conversation devolved to the evils of taking a sick day for any reason. The belief there was that even if you're vomiting, you should show up to work until someone dismisses you.
Click to expand...
I remember that thread and found it outrageous people thought you should come to work actively vomiting. However, it's possible to err too far in the other direction. I would encourage anyone wondering about this topic (like the OP) to just remember that what's important in residency is being a team player. One of my residency classmates was notorious for calling out sick on even call nights with nothing more a head cold, requiring the backup call person, who hadn't thought they were going to be on call that night, to come in. While I wouldn't dream of coming in vomiting, or with a fever, even before med school, when I had an office job, it never occurred to me to call out sick with a mere head cold. Take some OTC cold medicine, keep a mug of tea on hand, and you can work with no problems.
 
Trismegistus4 said:
I remember that thread and found it outrageous people thought you should come to work actively vomiting. However, it's possible to err too far in the other direction. I would encourage anyone wondering about this topic (like the OP) to just remember that what's important in residency is being a team player. One of my residency classmates was notorious for calling out sick on even call nights with nothing more a head cold, requiring the backup call person, who hadn't thought they were going to be on call that night, to come in. While I wouldn't dream of coming in vomiting, or with a fever, even before med school, when I had an office job, it never occurred to me to call out sick with a mere head cold. Take some OTC cold medicine, keep a mug of tea on hand, and you can work with no problems.
Click to expand...

While that's a valid point, more often than not, the pendulum swings too far the other way. Residents shouldn't be intimidated or discouraged to use sick days when they're sick.
 
Trismegistus4 said:
I remember that thread and found it outrageous people thought you should come to work actively vomiting. However, it's possible to err too far in the other direction. I would encourage anyone wondering about this topic (like the OP) to just remember that what's important in residency is being a team player. One of my residency classmates was notorious for calling out sick on even call nights with nothing more a head cold, requiring the backup call person, who hadn't thought they were going to be on call that night, to come in. While I wouldn't dream of coming in vomiting, or with a fever, even before med school, when I had an office job, it never occurred to me to call out sick with a mere head cold. Take some OTC cold medicine, keep a mug of tea on hand, and you can work with no problems.
Click to expand...
Maybe a happy medium balance could be found? At residency we generally all felt pretty supportive of each other and almost NOBODY called out for mental health days at the EXPENSE of another resident. If they did it would be discussed with the other person in advance with appropriate coverage in return. Generally in those cases it'll be like "ya man sure thing!"

On the other hand, if all you're missing is a didactic day where no patient care is compromised, no fellow trainee is made to cover you, and at worst you bruise the ego of a narcissist lecturer... I think it's fair game.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

W
Conflict of interest in psych residency
Replies
8
Views
2K
calvnandhobbs68
calvnandhobbs68
J
PGY2/Rising PGY3 (c/o 2028) psych residency slot likely available - T10 East Coast
Replies
0
Views
351
jjjj1111
J
W
Why do elite psych residency programs interview so many applicants?
Replies
35
Views
5K
wellbutrin.girlfriend
W
B
salary resource for psych (forensic psych, CAP, general psych, etc.)
Replies
8
Views
3K
mistafab
mistafab
clement
RVU-based ER Psych
Replies
20
Views
2K
Stagg737
Stagg737
Top Bottom