Sick in the OR

[lightblueelephant]

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I'm supposed to shadow in a neurosurgery which I am beyond excited about. Unfortunately I have a very sore throat and am a little dizzy with a cold so I don't think it would be responsible for me to be in that room, especially when I am not medically necessary.

Thoughts?

Also what happens if you're a surgeon and you get a cold or the flu? Do you operate anyway?

 

[SLUser11]

I went to work with a sore throat once. Many patients died that day.




Now I know my limits. I'm only human, after all.

 

[Slack3r]

I was sick for a solid 2 weeks of my surgery rotation. Ended up eating a LOT of snot in those masks.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Unfortunately, surgery is not something that's easily rescheduled (nor are patients understanding) for puny little colds and sore throats. As a migraine sufferer, I've scrubbed out on more than one occasion to vomit in the scrub sink (one time the vomitus was red and I momentarily panicked that I was having a GI Bleed and would end up dying in the MICU. My scrub nurse reminded me that I'd had red Jello earlier).

OP, IMHO as long as you aren't febrile, there won't be an issue with you being there. Finally, if you are considering a career in medicine, you'll learn that even non-surgical careers entail sacrifices and that most people in professional jobs do not call in sick for minor illnesses.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Unfortunately, surgery is not something that's easily rescheduled (nor are patients understanding) for puny little colds and sore throats. As a migraine sufferer, I've scrubbed out on more than one occasion to vomit in the scrub sink (one time the vomitus was red and I momentarily panicked that I was having a GI Bleed and would end up dying in the MICU. My scrub nurse reminded me that I'd had red Jello earlier).

OP, IMHO as long as you aren't febrile, there won't be an issue with you being there. Finally, if you are considering a career in medicine, you'll learn that even non-surgical careers entail sacrifices and that most people in professional jobs do not call in sick for minor illnesses.

Ah... Admission to the MICU. Every surgical resident's nightmare!

 

[ACSurgeon]

I'm supposed to shadow in a neurosurgery which I am beyond excited about. Unfortunately I have a very sore throat and am a little dizzy with a cold so I don't think it would be responsible for me to be in that room, especially when I am not medically necessary.

Thoughts?

Also what happens if you're a surgeon and you get a cold or the flu? Do you operate anyway?

Obviously not cool. As a surgeon, you can't ever, ever be sick at sea.

 

[OtoHNS]

Make sure you eat breakfast so you are less likely to pass out and faceplant on the floor (or patient).

 

[lightblueelephant]

Thanks I know it was a silly question I just didn't want to put the patient in unnecessary danger

 

[Winged Scapula]

The above is excellent advice that I should have given as well. There is no shame in rescheduling if you honestly don't feel well enough to be there. We appreciate your concern for the patient in but you need to make sure that you will be benefiting as much as possible from the experience.

 

[criticalelement]

U
OP, IMHO as long as you aren't febrile, there won't be an issue with you being there. Finally, if you are considering a career in medicine, you'll learn that even non-surgical careers entail sacrifices and that most people in professional jobs do not call in sick for minor illnesses.

typical douchy I must suffer surgical mentality response..

 

[ACSurgeon]

typical douchy I must suffer surgical mentality response..

Not as masochistic as you think. We actually enjoy our job and as a group have really high standards and a solid work ethic. The surgical personality is a bit of a "yes-man" attitude, and we pride ourselves of that. That's in part tradition and in part not having the luxury of calling in sick if not truly sick. A lot of our attention is directed at time sensitive issues, and unlike IM with their 20 admitting services, we don't have that manpower, which makes calling in sick/leaving early/being late etc, unacceptable in surgical practice.

Finally: happiness depends on expectations and reality. Our reality is hard work, long hours and a fair bit of stress. Accepting this reality when formulating expectations makes you a happier surgeon when you have to come in to work sick or miss an event, etc.

 

[Winged Scapula]

typical douchy I must suffer surgical mentality response..

Seriously? I'm not sure where that attack came from or what I've done to you to deserve that.

You'll notice I said that calling in sick is not an option in many professional fields. The OP describes minor cold symptoms. Deciding to work with such is not the sole property of a surgeon; you may decide to stay home but it is my experience that many of my (non-medical) family and friends would not.

Finally, as noted above, we simply don't have the luxury to call in sick. Its not easy to reschedule clinic or a full day of cases nor do patients appreciate it; its not like I can call up one of my partners and ask them to do my clinic or cases. So YES if I have to suffer because it makes things better for my patient I will.

 

[criticalelement]

Seriously? I'm not sure where that attack came from or what I've done to you to deserve that.

You'll notice I said that calling in sick is not an option in many professional fields. The OP describes minor cold symptoms. Deciding to work with such is not the sole property of a surgeon; you may decide to stay home but it is my experience that many of my (non-medical) family and friends would not.

Finally, as noted above, we simply don't have the luxury to call in sick. Its not easy to reschedule clinic or a full day of cases nor do patients appreciate it; its not like I can call up one of my partners and ask them to do my clinic or cases. So YES if I have to suffer because it makes things better for my patient I will.

Nothing personal. WHat kind of work environment is not being able to take care of yourself first and foremost. WHy would anyone want to get involved in such things. If you are sick or dont feel well you should stay home. Period. 50 patients or NOT.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Nothing personal. WHat kind of work environment is not being able to take care of yourself first and foremost. WHy would anyone want to get involved in such things. If you are sick or dont feel well you should stay home. Period. 50 patients or NOT.

It's because when we start behaving like nurses, they start taking our jobs.

 

[ACSurgeon]

That's idiotic.

People come into work sick with a mild viral illness all the time for even menial jobs. Secretaries, office workers, teachers, etc.

Sometimes part of being a grown up is recognizing the difference between sick and SICK and sucking it up and moving on with life.

Plus, yes, our patients absolutely deserve some sacrifice. That's why we got into this business. If I cancel a day of OR cases because I'm sick...that potentially means 3-5 people with CANCER have to wait a month to get their treatment. The systems in most practices are not plug and play. If your surgeon cancels, you don't get an operation. Period. You have to wait for the next gap in the schedule. That has a huge implication for those patients in terms of both their treatment course and their emotional well being.

It's pathetic to me that there are physicians out there who CAN'T understand this.

If I'm genuinely Ill and can't provide safe patient care then I will absolutely call in sick. If I am mildly miserable from a cold and wish I was curled up in bed watching netflix, I will suck it up and do what is right for my patients.

This is hard for some to grasp, especially in fields where doctors are interchangeable, like anesthesia or EM.

 

[deleted547339]

This is hard for some to grasp, especially in fields where doctors are interchangeable, like anesthesia or EM.

Eh....I'm EM. Calling in is still a no-no even though someone else can technically be called in. Just because someone can come in and replace you, that doesn't mean it's OK. I think we've had 3 people call in for a shift in the past 2 years....I was one of them and it involved a diagnosis of cancer in the family...

 

[Winged Scapula]

Eh....I'm EM. Calling in is still a no-no even though someone else can technically be called in. Just because someone can come in and replace you, that doesn't mean it's OK. I think we've had 3 people call in for a shift in the past 2 years....I was one of them and it involved a diagnosis of cancer in the family...

I don't want to speak for @lazymed but I think the point was not necessarily that its easier technically to call in sick with EM or Anesthesia, but rather that the patient has not formed a relationship with you which essentially precludes having someone else cover your work.

Its difficult for all of us, working in environments with limited resources, to call in sick. But its not like your drug seeking, ingrown toenail for 2 months having, rule out STEMI cares whether its @TimesNewRoman seeing him or someone else.

 

[deleted547339]

I don't want to speak for @lazymed but I think the point was not necessarily that its easier technically to call in sick with EM or Anesthesia, but rather that the patient has not formed a relationship with you which essentially precludes having someone else cover your work.

Its difficult for all of us, working in environments with limited resources, to call in sick. But its not like your drug seeking, ingrown toenail for 2 months having, rule out STEMI cares whether its @TimesNewRoman seeing him or someone else.

Fair enough.

 

[deleted547339]

I don't want to speak for @lazymed but I think the point was not necessarily that its easier technically to call in sick with EM or Anesthesia, but rather that the patient has not formed a relationship with you which essentially precludes having someone else cover your work.

Its difficult for all of us, working in environments with limited resources, to call in sick. But its not like your drug seeking, ingrown toenail for 2 months having, rule out STEMI cares whether its @TimesNewRoman seeing him or someone else.

And to be fair, most of the drug seekers do care whether or not I'm working - they tend to leave AMA when they see that I'm working, lol.

 

[ACSurgeon]

Eh....I'm EM. Calling in is still a no-no even though someone else can technically be called in. Just because someone can come in and replace you, that doesn't mean it's OK. I think we've had 3 people call in for a shift in the past 2 years....I was one of them and it involved a diagnosis of cancer in the family...

As @Winged Scapula said, I didn't mean to imply that it's commonplace to call in sick routinely in EM or anesthesia, just that the rate limiting factor is having a doctor covering the shift/case or whatever. There is less or no requirement for a certain individual to be there. Obviously, manpower issues will determine how difficult it will be to find someone to fill your place if you call in sick.

 

[Winged Scapula]

And to be fair, most of the drug seekers do care whether or not I'm working - they tend to leave AMA when they see that I'm working, lol.

 

[dpmd]

I'm supposed to shadow in a neurosurgery which I am beyond excited about. Unfortunately I have a very sore throat and am a little dizzy with a cold so I don't think it would be responsible for me to be in that room, especially when I am not medically necessary.

Thoughts?

Also what happens if you're a surgeon and you get a cold or the flu? Do you operate anyway?

If you are just worried about the patient/others who will be in the room, I would say it isn't a big deal. With the mask on and proper hand hygiene it is unlikely you are going to pass your virus on to anyone. If you are worried about your ability to benefit from the experience because of how bad you feel that is a different story. As for what I do as a surgeon, it is pretty similar to what I did in my prior jobs as a assistant working in an ophthalmology office/sale clerk at a clothing store/soldier/nurse-if I wasn't actively puking or having diarrhea, near syncopal, febrile, or in some other situation that precluded me leaving a defined area (like near the bathroom) or required a doctor visit/trip to sick call, I sucked it up until I was done or someone else told me I could go. I was sick today in fact, but rather than try to find someone to take care of my post op patients I downed some extra fluids and kept the cough drops going so I could see them myself (making sure to clean my hands after every time I rubbed my stupid snotty nose) and I know for sure the several patients I had longer discussions with today were grateful that I was there even if I coughed a little and sounded a little gravely. Then again, the time I was asked to cover a colleague's call because of gi upset I did it without hassling him because I have been there before and would much rather ask for help like that (plus since it is emergency call the patients shouldn't care who sees them) than suffer.