Significant difference between 3.18 & 3.2 GPA?

[Prometheus123]

During my first two years of college I got a GPA of 2.3. Then I took 4 years off, worked abroad, matured, and found my calling: medicine. So I transferred to a new college in the US and did most of my prereqs there. My GPA since transferring has been 3.91. My overall GPA is now 3.11.

I don't know my MCAT score yet, but my guess is that I got somewhere between 510 and 520.

I'm going to apply this summer. By then, my overall GPA will be either 3.18 or 3.2. If I take a fifth course in addition to my current course load, it will be 3.2. If I don't take a fifth course, it will be 3.18.

The fifth class could be genetics, A&P, Psych, Soc, or advanced Spanish grammar.

I could take the fifth class either this Spring quarter, or this summer in a compressed format during the month of July. If I take it in the summer, I would have to apply later at the end of July/beginning of August.

Questions:

1. Is raising my overall GPA from 3.18 to 3.20 likely to make a significant difference in MD admissions?
2. Is taking genetics and/or A&P before applying likely to make a significant difference?
3. Is submitting AMCAS around June 20th vs. August 1st likely to make a significant difference?

I have not taken genetics or A&P before. I want to get into an MD school anywhere in the US, but I would prefer to get into Oregon Health and Sciences University (OHSU). OHSU requires genetics for matriculation and strongly recommends A&P.

Thank you for your advice.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Runner500]

I don't know my MCAT score yet, but my guess is that I got somewhere between 510 and 520.

That's a bold claim, I'd say there's a better chance you score between 472 and 528. Until then, no, a .02 difference in GPA isn't going to matter. But that's just my .02¢....

 

[partypantss]

During my first two years of college I got a GPA of 2.3. Then I took 4 years off, worked abroad, matured, and found my calling: medicine. So I transferred to a new college in the US and did most of my prereqs there. My GPA since transferring has been 3.91. My overall GPA is now 3.11.

I don't know my MCAT score yet, but my guess is that I got somewhere between 510 and 520.

I'm going to apply this summer. By then, my overall GPA will be either 3.18 or 3.2. If I take a fifth course in addition to my current course load, it will be 3.2. If I don't take a fifth course, it will be 3.18.

The fifth class could be genetics, A&P, Psych, Soc, or advanced Spanish grammar.

I could take the fifth class either this Spring quarter, or this summer in a compressed format during the month of July. If I take it in the summer, I would have to apply later at the end of July/beginning of August.

Questions:

1. Is raising my overall GPA from 3.18 to 3.20 likely to make a significant difference in MD admissions?
2. Is taking genetics and/or A&P before applying likely to make a significant difference?
3. Is submitting AMCAS around June 20th vs. August 1st likely to make a significant difference?

I have not taken genetics or A&P before. I want to get into an MD school anywhere in the US, but I would prefer to get into Oregon Health and Sciences University (OHSU). OHSU requires genetics for matriculation and strongly recommends A&P.

Thank you for your advice.

1. No
2. Not to adcoms, however those could help a bit with the MCAT
3. Yes, August is far enough into the cycle that it starts making a statistical difference if you submit that late.

Also, Where are you getting that random 510-520 assumption from? The MCAT is generally considered as important if not more important than GPA so that will be your deciding factor (especially since you need to "prove" that you are now much more academically capable than your previous 2.3 GPA self.)
Until you have taken at least one AAMC practice test, you have NO WAY of knowing what your score will likely be. To put it into perspective though, a difference of 1 point on the MCAT can have a MUCH bigger impact on your chances compared to a .02 GPA difference.

 

[Prometheus123]

EDIT: Deleted post.

 

[Prometheus123]

let me get your year by year, BCPM /OA GPA break down as in page 2 below

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...b35af/amcas_grade_conversion_guide.pdf#page=2

The completed table is attached, as well as the spreadsheet I used to analyze the data. The high school GPA is an approximation. These numbers assume that I get all As in the four classes I'm currently taking this quarter, not including the fifth class. I put a few courses I took at a third institution before transferring to my current school as part of my freshman year, which is how they look on my current transcript.

The overall UG GPA came out as 3.24 instead of 3.18. This may be because I used a GPA calculator meant for semester hours without first converting my quarter hours to semester hours previously. This time I did the credit conversion as per the PDF you sent.

Freshman GPAs:

• BCPM: N/A
• AO: 2.43
• Total: 2.43

Sophomore GPAs:

• BCPM: 2.3,
• AO: 2.52,
• Total: 2.44

(Took 4 years off & transferred here.)

Junior GPAs:

• BCPM: 3.6
• AO: 4
• Total: 3.69

Senior GPAs:

• BCPM: 3.95
• AO: 4
• Total: 3.98

Cumulative UG GPAs:

• BCPM: 3.49
• AO: 3.14
• Total: 3.24

 

[Gurby]

Until then, no, a .02 difference in GPA isn't going to matter. But that's just my .02¢....

 

[Prometheus123]

So you are a "classic" nontrad with a crappy original UG record, went off years, matured, did something successful, and came back with solid grades. That is the basis of your narrative. Forget your overall GPA, we are ignoring it for the purposes of this application as it will not provide guidance. You should consider yourself a 3.5-3.6 applicant for school selection, though of couple of reach schools may be in order. Squeezing in another summer class will not help as you need to apply with screws up timing too much in your case. With an outstanding MCAT, you can make the argument . My risk avoidance says you should wait another year and add another year of successful coursework to really prove this point. I would say you can do the application now but I would take some more courses and enhance your record while that application is going thru the cycle as your probability of reapplication is higher than most so you will ready to do that next cycle. This assumes a good/great set of ECs, clinical, etc.

Bottom line is advice is I would wait the year and be more solid. It you have a bigger hill to climb than most

Thank you so much. I knew the trend of improvement mattered, but it's such a relief to hear a ballpark estimate of the significance.

So it sounds like that trend of improvement is my most valuable asset, and I should protect it at any cost. I won't take the fifth course, I'll just stick with the course load I've got. I'll apply this year, but I will continue to take courses and everything else with the knowledge that I will probably have to reapply.

 

[Poit]

Yes, the cut-off for most MD schools is a 3.19

 

[mimelim]

So you are a "classic" nontrad with a crappy original UG record, went off years, matured, did something successful, and came back with solid grades. That is the basis of your narrative. Forget your overall GPA, we are ignoring it for the purposes of this application as it will not provide guidance. You should consider yourself a 3.5-3.6 applicant for school selection, though of couple of reach schools may be in order. Squeezing in another summer class will not help as you need to apply with screws up timing too much in your case. With an outstanding MCAT, you can make the argument . My risk avoidance says you should wait another year and add another year of successful coursework to really prove this point. I would say you can do the application now but I would take some more courses and enhance your record while that application is going thru the cycle as your probability of reapplication is higher than most so you will ready to do that next cycle. This assumes a good/great set of ECs, clinical, etc.

Bottom line is advice is I would wait the year and be more solid. It you have a bigger hill to climb than most

Solid, could not say it any better.

 

[Goro]

See wise gonnif's posts above. There are MD schools (and all DO) that reward reinvention. For the former, you're going to need to ace MCAT (513+). For DO, 508+

Thank you so much. I knew the trend of improvement mattered, but it's such a relief to hear a ballpark estimate of the significance.

So it sounds like that trend of improvement is my most valuable asset, and I should protect it at any cost. I won't take the fifth course, I'll just stick with the course load I've got. I'll apply this year, but I will continue to take courses and everything else with the knowledge that I will probably have to reapply.

1. Is raising my overall GPA from 3.18 to 3.20 likely to make a significant difference in MD admissions?
2. Is taking genetics and/or A&P before applying likely to make a significant difference?
3. Is submitting AMCAS around June 20th vs. August 1st likely to make a significant difference?

I have not taken genetics or A&P before. I want to get into an MD school anywhere in the US, but I would prefer to get into Oregon Health and Sciences University (OHSU). OHSU requires genetics for matriculation and strongly recommends A&P.

Thank you for your advice.[/QUOTE]

 

[deleted446889]

let me get your year by year, BCPM /OA GPA break down as in page 2 below

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...b35af/amcas_grade_conversion_guide.pdf#page=2

Hi Gonnif,

1) Where do dual enrollment classes fit in? Time-wise those would be the high school years.

2) How would someone with a 6 year UG classify their classes? For example, 30 senior credits spread out over 2 or 3 years instead of 1.

 

[Turkishking]

See wise gonnif's posts above. There are MD schools (and all DO) that reward reinvention. For the former, you're going to need to ace MCAT (513+). For DO, 508+




1. Is raising my overall GPA from 3.18 to 3.20 likely to make a significant difference in MD admissions?
2. Is taking genetics and/or A&P before applying likely to make a significant difference?
3. Is submitting AMCAS around June 20th vs. August 1st likely to make a significant difference?

I have not taken genetics or A&P before. I want to get into an MD school anywhere in the US, but I would prefer to get into Oregon Health and Sciences University (OHSU). OHSU requires genetics for matriculation and strongly recommends A&P.

Thank you for your advice.

[/QUOTE]
Isn't that if you have human eyeballs actually looking?

 

[Prometheus123]

Hi Gonnif,

1) Where do dual enrollment classes fit in? Time-wise those would be the high school years.

2) How would someone with a 6 year UG classify their classes? For example, 30 senior credits spread out over 2 or 3 years instead of 1.

I'm not sure about question 1, but the answers to question 2 can be found on page 36 of the AMCAS Instruction Manual. For question 2, I'd start looking on page 37.

 

[Prometheus123]

After I did my freshman and sophomore years at Bard College from 2009-2011, I took some online courses from Ashford University, an online college, in 2012 and got more mediocre grades. (I transferred to my current institution and started getting good grades several years after that in January 2015.)

If I put those online 2012 grades in my junior year, the junior GPAs drop quite a lot. See the table called "If Ashford is in junior yr" for this breakdown.


Here's a potential solution, but is it legal? My first semester freshman year, I attempted 15 semester credits, but I only earned 8 credits because I got an F on one course and a W on another, so was I part-time that semester?

According to the AMCAS Instruction Manual (p.36):

"If you have been enrolled part-time or have had interrupted attendance, you should use these ranges to determine your appropriate status for each term: Freshman = 0-35 semester hours..."​

I also found this AAMC quote here:

"No credit hours or AMCAS grade will be assigned [for Ws]."​

So does that first semester count as "part-time" since I earned less than full-time credit load? In other words, is academic status on the AMCAS defined by hours attempted, or hours earned?

If so, can I put my first semester of sophomore year as part of my freshman year? That way, everything gets pulled back and the online courses from 2012 wind up at the end of my sophomore year. To see the huge boost this gives to my junior and senior GPAs, see attached table "If Ashford is in sophomore yr".


That being said, the total number earned semester hours in my natural freshman year was 24. The manual also says:

"Each undergraduate status should consist of approximately 24-35 semester hours. If you are enrolled as a full-time, continuous undergraduate at an institution, you should usually change your Year in School after every 2 semesters..."​

 

[DameJulie]

many schools have a cut off of 3.2 but all apps will be looked at. In this case they would go to the reject review step and likely get pulled out for reconsideration. I have sent people with 3.1 to MD. Nontrads have to have to proper narrative in these situations to support their case. Many schools will not get much interest but some will.

Gonnif, could you elaborate on "proper narrative in these situations to support their case"? I am in a similar situation but will be a re-applicant when applying again. Does this mean do we need to go in depth explaining what caused the low GPA? or can we focus on how we managed to have an upward trend?

 

[tifflove13]

After I did my freshman and sophomore years at Bard College from 2009-2011, I took some online courses from Ashford University, an online college, in 2012 and got more mediocre grades. (I transferred to my current institution and started getting good grades several years after that in January 2015.)

If I put those online 2012 grades in my junior year, the junior GPAs drop quite a lot. See the table called "If Ashford is in junior yr" for this breakdown.


Here's a potential solution, but is it legal? My first semester freshman year, I attempted 15 semester credits, but I only earned 8 credits because I got an F on one course and a W on another, so was I part-time that semester?

According to the AMCAS Instruction Manual (p.36):

"If you have been enrolled part-time or have had interrupted attendance, you should use these ranges to determine your appropriate status for each term: Freshman = 0-35 semester hours..."​

I also found this AAMC quote here:

"No credit hours or AMCAS grade will be assigned [for Ws]."​

So does that first semester count as "part-time" since I earned less than full-time credit load? In other words, is academic status on the AMCAS defined by hours attempted, or hours earned?

If so, can I put my first semester of sophomore year as part of my freshman year? That way, everything gets pulled back and the online courses from 2012 wind up at the end of my sophomore year. To see the huge boost this gives to my junior and senior GPAs, see attached table "If Ashford is in sophomore yr".


That being said, the total number earned semester hours in my natural freshman year was 24. The manual also says:

"Each undergraduate status should consist of approximately 24-35 semester hours. If you are enrolled as a full-time, continuous undergraduate at an institution, you should usually change your Year in School after every 2 semesters..."​

In the High School part, is that where you put dual enrollment? I'll have 62 credits for dual enrollment.

Sent from my SM-G935P using SDN mobile