Sinai vs. BU

u_raptor · Apr 1, 2020

Hey all,
I am back, with a recent acceptance upending what I had planned for my decisions lol. I recently got into Sinai, and now need to figure out which one I would prefer between there and BU. I am still leaning surgery, although I want to keep my options open. One of my biggest issues right now is my SO got a full ride to a boston law school. She hasn't heard back from NYC law schools yet, but because of this if I went to BU I would live with her. If I went to Sinai it would be a bit more long distance (would plan to see on weekends). She is willing to transfer to a NYC law school second year if possible.

Sinai
Pros:
- slightly smaller class size (140)
-about 2k less expensive a year (even with a BU scholarship), pending any FA
- Bit of a better match list (although its not significantly better)
- Probably carries more weight in terms of name outside of NE
- My father would likely be more willing to help with costs as it is "better ranked" in his eyes.
- stronger research opportunities
- felt a tad stronger "vibe"
Cons:
- Would have to travel on weekends to visit SO. Would be long distance.
- Would have to do an away rotation to get experience in rural health
- not sure yet if there are M1/M2 surgery electives (although there likely are?)

BU
Pros:
- SO got a full ride to a law school in Boston, and plans to live there. If I went I would live with her
- option for rural in clinical network for rotations (wouldn't have to apply to an away rotation)
- specific M1/M2 surgery electives
- matches strongly in Boston area
- friendly class so far
Cons:
- slightly larger class size (160)
- Housing would be slightly more expensive overall.
- probably doesn't carry as much weight outside of NE
- Father may not help out as much

Also, I would really like to go to residency or end up working in the south (for instance, would love to go to vandy later on in life), so would having the name recognition from Sinai vs. BU matter that much/at all?

Engrailed · Apr 1, 2020

Sinai!

Bus/train rides between NYC and Boston would be manageable. It's not an uncommon route.

vrazzles · Apr 1, 2020

Depends on how much you value spending time with your SO I guess.

In terms of matching, both Sinai and BU will not hold you back. If interested in academics, Sinai is more reputed than BU and may help with research connections but BU is no slacker there either.

I would personally do BU if you and your SO are serious.

I may be biased because Sinai's recent scandals with workplace harassment leave a bad taste in my mouth.

u_raptor · Apr 1, 2020

Engrailed said:
Sinai!

Bus/train rides between NYC and Boston would be manageable. It's not an uncommon route.

Very True. Still not easy, but makes a solution possible!

vrazzles said:
Depends on how much you value spending time with your SO I guess.

In terms of matching, both Sinai and BU will not hold you back. If interested in academics, Sinai is more reputed than BU and may help with research connections but BU is no slacker there either.

I would personally do BU if you and your SO are serious.

I may be biased because Sinai's recent scandals with workplace harassment leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Thanks! I agree going to BU wouldn't hurt my chances. Me and the SO are pretty serious, but recognize we want each other to go to the best school we can and are willing to make it work either way. This is honestly one of the biggest issues for me in choosing my decision. Hard decision to think about. Thanks for the input as well!

Wolvvs · Apr 1, 2020

Engrailed said:
Sinai!

Bus/train rides between NYC and Boston would be manageable. It's not an uncommon route.

For a one way trip Amtrak is around $50, Greyhound is around $20, both about 4.5 hours one way. Acela is faster but much more expensive (service is suspended right now so I can't find the fare, but I remember flights being cheaper).

So basically every weekend you're going to need to spend ~10 hours travelling and $40-$100. I personally wouldn't find this sustainable, but that's really something you'd need to decide yourself.

Regarding residency, where would you want to be? BU will definitely give you an advantage in Boston, whereas Sinai will help you in NYC, although both schools will allow you to match well.

u_raptor · Apr 1, 2020

Wolvvs said:
For a one way trip Amtrak is around $50, Greyhound is around $20, both about 4.5 hours one way. Acela is faster but much more expensive (service is suspended right now so I can't find the fare, but I remember flights being cheaper).

So basically every weekend you're going to need to spend ~10 hours travelling and $40-$100. I personally wouldn't find this sustainable, but that's really something you'd need to decide yourself.

Regarding residency, where would you want to be? BU will definitely give you an advantage in Boston, whereas Sinai will help you in NYC, although both schools will allow you to match well.

We would switch off, so I would be doing that every other weekend. I did that similarly as a child between my split families, so it doesn't come as a big deal to me. It may to her though.

But you are right in that it is tough for sure.

I'd prefer to come back south by the time of residency if possible lol.

m1redsox · Apr 1, 2020

u_raptor said:
We would switch off, so I would be doing that every other weekend. I did that similarly as a child between my split families, so it doesn't come as a big deal to me. It may to her though.

But you are right in that it is tough for sure.

I'd prefer to come back south by the time of residency if possible lol.

If it’s every other weekend that you’re planning on traveling, that probably makes up your $2k COA difference. I would go with Sinai! Especially if your Father is more willing to help with costs! It’s probably the better program anyways (marginally)!

Wolvvs · Apr 1, 2020

u_raptor said:
We would switch off, so I would be doing that every other weekend. I did that similarly as a child between my split families, so it doesn't come as a big deal to me. It may to her though.

But you are right in that it is tough for sure.

I'd prefer to come back south by the time of residency if possible lol.

I'm not sure exactly where you'd like to be, but I pulled the matches by state out of the most recent available match lists. BU does seem to match to a wider variety of locations.

State	BU Matches	BU %	Sinai Matches	Sinai %
AL	0	0.0%	1	0.8%
CA	30	16.6%	16	13.6%
CO	3	1.7%	4	3.4%
CT	3	1.7%	5	4.2%
DC	5	2.8%	1	0.8%
FL	4	2.2%	0	0.0%
GA	1	0.6%	2	1.7%
ID	0	0.0%	1	0.8%
IL	11	6.1%	4	3.4%
MA	54	29.8%	7	5.9%
MD	3	1.7%	5	4.2%
ME	2	1.1%	0	0.0%
MI	3	1.7%	0	0.0%
MN	1	0.6%	1	0.8%
MO	1	0.6%	0	0.0%
NC	4	2.2%	1	0.8%
NH	3	1.7%	0	0.0%
NJ	3	1.7%	3	2.5%
NV	1	0.6%	0	0.0%
NY	21	11.6%	48	40.7%
OH	0	0.0%	2	1.7%
PA	11	6.1%	11	9.3%
RI	3	1.7%	0	0.0%
SC	1	0.6%	0	0.0%
TN	1	0.6%	2	1.7%
TX	4	2.2%	0	0.0%
VA	3	1.7%	0	0.0%
VT	1	0.6%	0	0.0%
WA	2	1.1%	4	3.4%
WI	2	1.1%	0	0.0%
Total	181		118

u_raptor · Apr 1, 2020

Wolvvs said:
I'm not sure exactly where you'd like to be, but I pulled the matches by state out of the most recent available match lists. BU does seem to match to a wider variety of locations.

State BU Matches BU % Sinai Matches Sinai %
AL
0
0.0%
1
0.8%
CA
30
16.6%
16
13.6%
CO
3
1.7%
4
3.4%
CT
3
1.7%
5
4.2%
DC
5
2.8%
1
0.8%
FL
4
2.2%
0
0.0%
GA
1
0.6%
2
1.7%
ID
0
0.0%
1
0.8%
IL
11
6.1%
4
3.4%
MA
54
29.8%
7
5.9%
MD
3
1.7%
5
4.2%
ME
2
1.1%
0
0.0%
MI
3
1.7%
0
0.0%
MN
1
0.6%
1
0.8%
MO
1
0.6%
0
0.0%
NC
4
2.2%
1
0.8%
NH
3
1.7%
0
0.0%
NJ
3
1.7%
3
2.5%
NV
1
0.6%
0
0.0%
NY
21
11.6%
48
40.7%
OH
0
0.0%
2
1.7%
PA
11
6.1%
11
9.3%
RI
3
1.7%
0
0.0%
SC
1
0.6%
0
0.0%
TN
1
0.6%
2
1.7%
TX
4
2.2%
0
0.0%
VA
3
1.7%
0
0.0%
VT
1
0.6%
0
0.0%
WA
2
1.1%
4
3.4%
WI
2
1.1%
0
0.0%
Total
181
118

Oh my, thanks for taking the time for that! Is this for the most recent match?

Wolvvs · Apr 1, 2020

u_raptor said:
Oh my, thanks for taking the time for that! Is this for the most recent match?

2019 for Sinai and 2020 for BU as Sinai didn't post their most recent yet.

m1redsox · Apr 1, 2020

Wolvvs said:
I'm not sure exactly where you'd like to be, but I pulled the matches by state out of the most recent available match lists. BU does seem to match to a wider variety of locations.

State BU Matches BU % Sinai Matches Sinai %
AL
0
0.0%
1
0.8%
CA
30
16.6%
16
13.6%
CO
3
1.7%
4
3.4%
CT
3
1.7%
5
4.2%
DC
5
2.8%
1
0.8%
FL
4
2.2%
0
0.0%
GA
1
0.6%
2
1.7%
ID
0
0.0%
1
0.8%
IL
11
6.1%
4
3.4%
MA
54
29.8%
7
5.9%
MD
3
1.7%
5
4.2%
ME
2
1.1%
0
0.0%
MI
3
1.7%
0
0.0%
MN
1
0.6%
1
0.8%
MO
1
0.6%
0
0.0%
NC
4
2.2%
1
0.8%
NH
3
1.7%
0
0.0%
NJ
3
1.7%
3
2.5%
NV
1
0.6%
0
0.0%
NY
21
11.6%
48
40.7%
OH
0
0.0%
2
1.7%
PA
11
6.1%
11
9.3%
RI
3
1.7%
0
0.0%
SC
1
0.6%
0
0.0%
TN
1
0.6%
2
1.7%
TX
4
2.2%
0
0.0%
VA
3
1.7%
0
0.0%
VT
1
0.6%
0
0.0%
WA
2
1.1%
4
3.4%
WI
2
1.1%
0
0.0%
Total
181
118

Seems like that was pretty predictable though since NY has so many more residency programs than MA has. It is likely that people from Sinai tend to match in NY simply because there are SO MANY high quality programs there, whereas MA has relatively few. In other words, it may not be as common for people to try to match into the South since there are so many local programs. Match lists are tough to judge IMO because they really don't tell the whole story.

In other words, I still say Sinai because match lists don't say much. Sinai would not hinder you at all in matching into the South, and I think coming from Sinai will actually be a huge plus since it is such a reputable program (granted, BU is well-known too and probably wouldn't hinder you either. I just say Sinai based on your pros/cons)

HPV · Apr 1, 2020

If it wasn't for your SO, I would definitely say Sinai. But I really do think having your SO other with you throughout med school will be super important. While traveling every weekend will make things easier, it might be an added stress to your already busy schedule. This will be even more true in your clinical years. Where you want to match for residency is also a big factor. Unless you want to match in NYC, there isn't really an advantage of going to sinai over BU. They are both really good programs that will allow you to match down south.

Personally, I would love to stay in NYC because of my SO and it didnt even hit me until recently that I would much rather prefer to stay. During my interview trail I was intrigued by new places with great programs far away, but now I just really want to be where my SO is. You can probably relate. This really depends on what will make you most happy, being close to your SO or attending a school that is slightly better.

No matter what you decide, you will receive a great education, match where you so please, and will be able to work things out with your SO. This is simply a matter of happiness

u_raptor · Apr 1, 2020

HPV said:
If it wasn't for your SO, I would definitely say Sinai. But I really do think having your SO other with you throughout med school will be super important. While traveling every weekend will make things easier, it might be an added stress to your already busy schedule. This will be even more true in your clinical years. Where you want to match for residency is also a big factor. Unless you want to match in NYC, there isn't really an advantage of going to sinai over BU. They are both really good programs that will allow you to match down south.

Personally, I would love to stay in NYC because of my SO and it didnt even hit me until recently that I would much rather prefer to stay. During my interview trail I was intrigued by new places with great programs far away, but now I just really want to be where my SO is. You can probably relate. This really depends on what will make you most happy, being close to your SO or attending a school that is slightly better.

No matter what you decide, you will receive a great education, match where you so please, and will be able to work things out with your SO. This is simply a matter of happiness

Thanks for the input! I definitely think either way I think we will be OK like you said, but it would definitely add stress during clinical. But, like I mentioned before, she is willing to transfer after a year to NYC if that is what I choose. I also definitely feel what you are saying, about recently realizing how important it is hahaha. It would very much be a matter of stress in M1 possibly M2 if she waits to transfer.
Thanks again!

ricardo.wannabedoc · Apr 1, 2020

I'm curious, is transferring a guaranteed thing? How much work is involved? I know very little about law schools, but I imagine there would be a lot of stress for your SO (applying to new schools while in school, having to readjust to a new school, move during her studies, leave behind friends she made in the first year, make new ones at the new school, etc.). Law school is probably stressful enough as it is.

Even if she says she's comfortable with it, I'd say the schools offer similar enough opportunities that I would choose BU, if only to save your SO from some unnecessary stress.

Also, wouldn't she lose out on the free ride? Who is to say she would get one at the NYC school she transfers to? Idk, I'm not a betting man, I would take the safer option.

Wolvvs · Apr 1, 2020

m1redsox said:
Seems like that was pretty predictable though since NY has so many more residency programs than MA has. It is likely that people from Sinai tend to match in NY simply because there are SO MANY high quality programs there, whereas MA has relatively few. In other words, it may not be as common for people to try to match into the South since there are so many local programs. Match lists are tough to judge IMO because they really don't tell the whole story.

In other words, I still say Sinai because match lists don't say much. Sinai would not hinder you at all in matching into the South, and I think coming from Sinai will actually be a huge plus since it is such a reputable program (granted, BU is well-known too and probably wouldn't hinder you either. I just say Sinai based on your pros/cons)

I definitely hear you, the point I was trying to make was that Sinai isn't necessarily going to be better known than BU for matching somewhere like Vanderbilt, which was one of the original concerns. Looking at the current PGY1 Medicine residents at Vanderbilt, there are 2 from BU and 1 from Sinai. Just like the match lists that doesn't tell you very much, but it doesn't look like there's a real advantage either way for matching at prestigious Southern universities. I think we are making the same point, I just wasn't very clear from the start

u_raptor · Apr 1, 2020

ricardo.wannabedoc said:
I'm curious, is transferring a guaranteed thing? How much work is involved? I know very little about law schools, but I imagine there would be a lot of stress for your SO (applying to new schools while in school, having to readjust to a new school, move during her studies, leave behind friends she made in the first year, make new ones at the new school, etc.). Law school is probably stressful enough as it is.

Even if she says she's comfortable with it, I'd say the schools offer similar enough opportunities that I would choose BU, if only to save your SO from some unnecessary stress.

Also, wouldn't she lose out on the free ride? Who is to say she would get one at the NYC school she transfers to? Idk, I'm not a betting man, I would take the safer option.

According to her its pretty common! And as of now she says she is OK with it, and sees it as at the very least she gets a year free, but you are right in that she may not want to. This is a discussion w ehave ahd pretty in depth at this point.

little_giant · Apr 2, 2020

I think how the school treats its students/residents is pretty important, and since Sinai has a pretty bad reputation for this (This NYC Hospital Has A Physician Suicide Problem It Doesn't Want You To Know About) I voted for BU

Kirby Smart · Apr 2, 2020

I haven't seen anyone comment on the fact that you would also be choosing for your SO to likely not have a full-ride for 3 years that she otherwise would have (I think law school is 4 years total...right?).

If you see yourself eventually marrying her, and thus combining finances/debt, then you should look at it like you're choosing between the cost of 1 school vs the cost of 2 schools. Thats at least the way I see it, maybe there's something I'm missing. Seems like in this case where the choice being made isn't "State school vs Harvard", this money aspect would be my deciding factor.

thespitfire · Apr 2, 2020

Kirby Smart said:
I haven't seen anyone comment on the fact that you would also be choosing for your SO to likely not have a full-ride for 3 years that she otherwise would have (I think law school is 4 years total...right?).

If you see yourself eventually marrying her, and thus combining finances/debt, then you should look at it like you're choosing between the cost of 1 school vs the cost of 2 schools. Thats at least the way I see it, maybe there's something I'm missing. Seems like in this case where the choice being made isn't "State school vs Harvard", this money aspect would be my deciding factor.

This! Also, please don't underestimate the challenge of commuting that distance twice a month. I know other commenters have spoken on it already but it will be a lot harder than you think, especially because your SO will also be going through the rigors of law school. Time you could spend unwinding together between exams will instead be spent traveling a not-insignificant distance.

TheDataKing · Apr 2, 2020

Congrats on some great options. Personally, I'd vote BU - BU and Mt. Sinai come out on par when you look at program director ratings. Both school will get you into whatever you're interested in. I agree with @Kirby Smart , Boston would end up saving y'all money over the long-term and if you can show your father that the program director ratings dictate that the two schools are on par, maybe he'd be more willing to help?

u_raptor · Apr 2, 2020

TheDataKing said:
Congrats on some great options. Personally, I'd vote BU - BU and Mt. Sinai come out on par when you look at program director ratings. Both school will get you into whatever you're interested in. I agree with @Kirby Smart , Boston would end up saving y'all money over the long-term and if you can show your father that the program director ratings dictate that the two schools are on par, maybe he'd be more willing to help?
View attachment 300703

Yeah I think the PD rating on par is important, something I plan to show him. With travel costs they would indeed be about equal on debt, although I am still waiting on FA from both!

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