Single Mom Blues

[efex101]

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Path I agree that some folks (women) do need to think career choices (aka the surgeon with ten kids) but I think that often times women have NO idea about how they would feel after having a child! and some had already committed to a career. I think for non-trads this is somewhat easier because we already have kids but for young women going to medical school and then choosing X or Y NOT realizing/thinking how motherhood would affect them is a whole nother thing...

 

[nextgendoc]

Clarence Thomas is a "minority" too but I can't recall the last time he spoke at the NAACP national meeting. 😕

Lemme tell you how "minority" works around here. If you have blue eyes, blond hair and both your parents are white but one gradmother is Native American, then to Tri-Delta, you're white. But when it's time to apply to med school, you're Native American. 😉

So given my very mixed heritage, I don't know what the hell I am, but according to the klan, I beeza negra!

PS- And apparently "negras" can be racist too! 😉
PSS- I absolutely HATE watermelon! 😀

Hilarious - don't mess with a sista!!!!!!!!

 

[nextgendoc]

This truly is an age/maturity thing isn't it? I just hope I wasn't this judgemental as some of the folks here when I was in my 20's. 👍

I'm sure I was. I thought I knew something in my twenties until I got to my thirties and then I realized I didn't know squat. So my thirties were spent at least with the knowledge that I should keep my mouth shut and watch and learn. So now that the thirties are gone I'm just chilled out- doing my own thing and letting those around me do theirs. People soon learn you can't tell grown folk what to do. People do what they want. Our motivation is internally driven by the socialization program that runs continously in our heads and only stops when we acknowledge that much of what's been learned is a lie and we must now make-over ourselves to get halfway free. But that's another post.

 

[UCLA2000]

I'm sure I was. I thought I knew something in my twenties until I got to my thirties and then I realized I didn't know squat. So my thirties were spent at least with the knowledge that I should keep my mouth shut and watch and learn. So now that the thirties are gone I'm just chilled out- doing my own thing and letting those around me do theirs. People soon learn you can't tell grown folk what to do. People do what they want.

Interesting...

I can't help but to wonder though if it has less to do with age and more to do with each individual's life experience. You can be 30 and still live at home with mommy and daddy paying your bills and taking care of you, or you can be a fully independent adult. Age and maturity do not necessarily go hand and hand.

 

[1Path]

but I think that often times women have NO idea about how they would feel after having a child!

This is what I don't understand. 😕 On a certain level, I understand that a person won't understand EXACTLY what it is to do/be something until you get there, but this is where "listening to your elders/people" who have done it comes into play. These days it seems young people (in their 20's) don't want to listen to ANYONE, let alone someone who seemingly "complaining". For example, I have what have been described as "surgical hands" having and retrieved tissue from cadevers and sliced and diced a few rodents in my day, but I wouldn't dare go into surgery for family reasons, even though I throughly enjoy it. Reason, logic, commom sense, but most importantly the words of women who have "been there, done that" is ALL I need to know to confirm that FOR ME, choosing surgery would be a poor, selfish choice. 👎

Perhaps if people were willing to LISTEN to others, they wouldn/t have half they career dissatisfaction they have. But then again, because so many people seem motivated by money and/or prestige, I realize that saying this is a complete waste of time.

 

[CrazyPremed]

I'm not going to say much - I'm male and have no kids. 😱 I think that you may find some support on MomMD.com. It's a website designed for women in medicine (and the occasional guy that checks it out). They have tons of posts from people in your situation. I'm sorry that you were attacked here. Good luck with whatever you do!!

CrazyPremed

 

[LADoc00]

That's great becasue I don't really give a **** if you and anyone else buys or doesn't buy the statistic. 😛

Funny thing about threads around here. If I posted a thread about black people loving watermelon not a single person would ask me to "provide a link, post a statistic". But post a comment about afact that affect the majority, and all kinda posts about posting a link come out of everyone a$$. 🙄

When you drop a bomb of that level, you better have some kinda back up! I personally have never known a female doc/med student to have an abortion post college, so Im highly skeptical. Yes, some maybe skanks, but I doubt they are the full on hobags you claim.

 

[1Path]

When you drop a bomb of that level, you better have some kinda back up! I personally have never known a female doc/med student to have an abortion post college, so Im highly skeptical. Yes, some maybe skanks, but I doubt they are the full on hobags you claim.

I have known a few including a MARRIED grad student who had an A$$ of a MALE PI. 😡 The thing is, who "brags" about abortion anyway as it is a woman's personal choice. I'm just relaying what a survey said when the occupations of women who chose abortion were examined.

Better question, how many single pregnant premed med, med students, residents have you seen? They can't ALL be master's of the birth control universe!

 

[UCLA2000]

Yes, some maybe skanks, but I doubt they are the full on hobags you claim.

If med school were really full of sluts then my med school experience would have been a helluva lot more fun!

 

[LADoc00]

If med school were really full of sluts then my med school experience would have been a helluva lot more fun!

Yes, I too am eagerly awaiting the onslaught of trashy women toting their "buy 9, get 1 free" abortion cards from Planned Parenthood...

 

[LADoc00]

I have known a few including a MARRIED grad student who had an A$$ of a MALE PI. 😡 The thing is, who "brags" about abortion anyway as it is a woman's personal choice. I'm just relaying what a survey said when the occupations of women who chose abortion were examined.

Better question, how many single pregnant premed med, med students, residents have you seen? They can't ALL be master's of the birth control universe!

 

[1Path]

Yes, I too am eagerly awaiting the onslaught of trashy women toting their "buy 9, get 1 free" abortion cards from Planned Parenthood...

Glad to see you guys support a woman's right to choose! 🙄

I'd imagine that if having an abortion = being a slut, there are literally millions upon millions of sluts in the world. Maybe even the "mother" of certain folks? 😕

Or your future "Baby's Mama"!!!

 

[LADoc00]

Glad to see you guys support a woman's right to choose! 🙄

I'd imagine that if having an abortion = being a slut, there are literally millions upon millions of sluts in the world. Maybe even the "mother" of certain folks? 😕

Or your future "Baby's Mama"!!!

Of course there are literally millions upon millions of sluts, was that EVER in doubt in this discussion??

 

[tigress]

I just don't understand the argument that children get screwed up when they don't have a parent around all of the time, or most of the time. I know very few people who grew up with two parents working full-time jobs, in a stable and happy marriage, who are not normal, well-adjusted people today. My brother and I sure turned out okay, and my mother went back to work a few weeks after each of us were born! Yes, she did make sacrifices, such as working in a job that didn't allow her as many opportunities but did allow her to work reasonable hours and no weekends. My father worked very long hours. But you know what? Almost all of my childhood memories involve being with my parents, on the weekend or in the evening or on the occasional vacation. We had a live-in nanny, but she stars in few of my memories. Even though she was my main caretaker, I never had any problem understanding her role, or the role of my parents. And I really don't think I'm unusual in that regard.

I do think one important element of this equation is stable parents. I'm not sure if it can be done as well as a single parent, but an organized and "together" mother can probably pull it off. I think the people I know who have the most problems in terms of functioning as normal adults come from families that fought all the time, or families in which at least one parent was completely dysfuctional. THAT can screw up children.

All of this said, the decision to go to medical schools is a huge one. I think women with children have to have a good plan for childcare, have to be very organized, be content with not being top in the class, and have to be realistic about what specialties they choose. I know a number of women who've gone through medical school with children and have done wonderfully; the children are happy and so are the parents. More often than not the husband is not in the medical profession, however. This is one reason I am still questioning my decision to go to med school, since my husband is a med student now and the dynamics of a 2-doctor family do seem a bit overwhelming.

In the end I think this is obviously a personal decision, and one that has to be made with a lot of deliberation. It's certainly not to be taken lightly. But suggesting that any single mother who decides to go to med school is as good as abusing her child and ruining his future seems incredibly cruel and uninformed. It has been done well, and it can be done well again, but only by the right person with the right circumstances.

btw, I don't much like mommd myself. I still read it sometimes, but I don't think it's at all representative of mothers in medicine. It's a self-selecting group, just like sdn. Do you really think MCAT and board scores on sdn are representative of national averages? 😛

edit: I want to add that even if I decided not to go to medical school I would not be a full-time mother. I would never be happy or fulfilled doing that. And in the day of washers and dryers and dishwashers, full-time mothering usually means paying way TOO much attention to kids. I truly believe that. In the "good old days," when women stayed at home, they weren't spending all their time taking kids to different lessons and play groups and such -- they were too busy taking care of the household most of the time. Also, just because a mother stays at home doesn't mean it's better for the child. My mother's mother, for example, did not work, and yet my mother remembers her never being around for anything because she was off playing bridge or going to ladies club meetings -- the opposite of my memories from a family with two parents working full time! I truly think it's not quantity but quality, and meaningfulness, when it comes to spending time with children.

 

[ocean11]

You know.... I actually see UCLA2000's point. I remember when I was growing up, my mom raised us and all was well, when we moved to another country we hardly saw her as much (immigrants usually have to work twice as hard --> not just your 'average' full time job) and it impacted us alot. I think its important for parents to spend time with their kids, but saying that... I think its ALSO important for women AND men to have financial independence and 'pursue' their dreams and goals. The question is what is realistic? The way I see it, many women tend to go to Family Medicine or Dermatology to be able to have 'more flexible' hours and still spend time with their kids. I think if one wants a high profile career like cardiothoracic surgery etc etc.... they might want to plan med school/undergrad etc... so that they will still be young enough at the end of their training to be able to 'settle' into a good job, get stable and THEN have kids.

Unfortunatly, most of us don't get into med school at the age of 20, and need to be realistic about what is possible IF AND ONLY IF we want a family. THIS ALSO depends on how many kids you want, ie: 2 vs. 6. I have several friends at school who are parents, and its very hard on the mothers and they often feel 'guilty'. The one's that I know have a great support network and that's important... and sacrifice their grades to have a family.

Bottom line is: SOMETHING needs to be sacrificed, if its NOT med school, then it's your grades, if not your grades then ultimately the type of residency you want (ie: orthopedic surgery vs. family practice) OR if not all the above than your child may suffer neglect. HOWEVER, there ARE some exeptionally bright people who can get the strait A's without studying much, or skip every class and raise a family at the same time, but it's tough...

My advice would be to have kids AFTER med school/residency but unfortunately this isn't always possible... many considerations have to be weighed.... regardless good luck and keep the faith!!

 

[efex101]

I do not think that anyone said here (but who knows with all the posts) that you have to be 100% with your kids...but what some posts do insinuate is that when *both* parents have very demanding jobs (meaning being away from home working for very long hours) this is harder on some kids. I am not a firm believer in that quality time is better than quantity also, when I mean quantity I do not mean 24/7 but being there for dinners and evenings with your family. I hear this "oh my kids prefer for me to be there for one hour but that *is* quality time" and I really think this is bogus. Ask most kids, and they want mommy/daddy there for dinner and beyond and even better if they are home around 3-4! they feel more secure. I have been on both sides of this argument and see a huge difference...now sure some kids could care less but the majority do like and want their parents there. So when both parents or one parent is gone working 80 hrs/week there is NO way in heck that there is much time left for being with your family. Mommd is a great site for getting a "reality" check. Sure, there are many women physicians leaving medicine that do post on that site but it behooves anyone that is female and thinking of a family to read some posts. The reality of having children totally changes your perspective on EVERYTHING and some women find it extremely difficult to graciously combine both medicine and motherhood (at the level that they want) and hence some end up leaving medicine. Now, some would say well jeez how come they did not think about this before going to medical school...and my thoughts on this is that "they" did not realize the pull of a child and did not realize that medicine IS very consuming. So this thread is NOT to discourage but to throw some other perspectives and ideas and issues that might come up. Most women in medicine that CAN do both well (motherhood and medicine) either have a super supportive husband at home (like me) OR have a full time nanny OR have a family member/s there helping out.

 

[UCLA2000]

Or your future "Baby's Mama"!!!

If my future "baby mama" was such a fan of abortion..then she wouldn't ever be my "baby mama" now would she!?

 

[1Path]

If my future "baby mama" was such a fan of abortion..then she wouldn't ever be my "baby mama" now would she!?

Q and I were often mistaken for dudes early on. But for an SDN first, I though YOU were a woman!

Sorry dude!!

 

[efex101]

Dang I thought the poster was a woman too!