Sitting on Acceptances, need help

[Emerald84]

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Hi everyone,

I have been accepted at 2 DO schools and still have a few more interviews.


I am thrilled for the acceptances, but I am feeling a bit disillusioned with the whole process. My biggest concern thus far is the consistency and quality of third and fourth year rotations. I want to do my core rotations at a major teaching hospitals. I am nervous and somewhat annoyed about uprooting and traveling to my core rotations if they are all over the place.

1.) Can any MSIIIs or IVs explain the process at their school of setting up their rotations?

2.) How do I investigate where I will have the best opportunities?


3.) Which schools tend to have more supportive clinical education offices?

A little off topic, but important to me:
4.) Which schools tend to really take care of their students in terms of offering board prep and giving students sufficient time to study?


I have been Accepted at KCOM & KCUMB (kind of neat doing the first round of interviews in the missouri mecca)

Interviewing at Lecom-B and DMU next month

Waiting on: Pikeville, UNE, PCOM and Lecom-e (UNE would be great because my sig other will be attending Tufts in the fall and I love the program)

Rejected from CCOM post secondary. they never received my new mcat score, kind of annoying. No rejections post interview so far.

Thanks everyone, your responses mean a lot!

 

[vin5cent0]

Can't answer anything you just asked.. but congrats on your acceptances! 👍

 

[Hybrid1]

I'm a 4th year DMU student. During the 2nd year, you submit for your choice geographical region -- Iowa, Ohio and Michigan are the main locations. Almost everybody gets their desired state. Those in MI and OH do their 3rd year in a core teaching hospital. For those who select Iowa, there is another lottery to determine if you end up in the Des Moines area or elsewhere. For my class, the school kept around 100-110 students in Des Moines for the 3rd year. Again, most people get what they wanted. You then submit for individual rotations out of a bank of rotations. In Des Moines, there is not a "core" hospital -- you rotate through multiple hospitals and clinics. For 4th year, you are allowed to submit anywhere.

As for Step I board prep, DMU students are given the opportunity to attend Kaplan weekend courses during the spring semester of 2nd year at no additional charge. You are also given books and access to the online question bank. We have a summer vacation between 2nd and 3rd year, which is ample time to study for boards. For Step II, the school brings every student back to campus between 3rd & 4th years and pays for them to take one of the NBME exams (USMLE prep). We also have a mock physical exam board (COMLEX PE) practice that week.

 

[Emerald84]

That's great to hear hybrid! I realized I packed a ton of questions and I really appreciate the response!

 

[Emerald84]

When is your summer vacation between second and third year and when do you start rotations?

 

[Emerald84]

Can't answer anything you just asked.. but congrats on your acceptances! 👍

Thanks!

 

[Hybrid1]

When is your summer vacation between second and third year and when do you start rotations?

Our 2nd year ends in late May and the 3rd year (your first rotation) begins in early August -- usually the first Monday of August. So, we do get a decent amount of summer vacation : )

 

[dkrames1]

I was accepted to KCUMB and KCOM and chose KCUMB... but for different reasons than you are looking for. I know that if you want to in Kirksville, you can do all your rotations in Kirksville 3rd year at the Northeast Hospital... there are also many specialties that have residency programs there so you could have a hookup (derm, plastics, other surgery, OMT). The draw back is that is Kirksville, Mo... not the most exciting town. If you are into small town values etc it is an awesome place. I chose KCUMB for the curriculum and that location... near my gf who goes to UMKC med school. I know KCUMB does not guarantee you can do your rotations in KC unless you are enrolled in their DO,MBA program. I am from St. Louis so I will probably try to do my rotations in stl at Des Peres. Its really a catch 22 as far as where you do your rotations and what kind of experience/ what advantages the 40 options they allow you to choose from. For example if you want to get into Ortho/General Surgery residency, they offer that at Des Peres in Stl so forming a great relationship with the doctors there during your rotations will help you get in later. The disadvantage as I have heard from students that are doing their rotations in Stl is that the actual stuff you do is very limited due to the fact that there are many other students doing rotations, residents, and doctors. So you could have an in for a residency or you could go unnoticed and not gain any valuable skills (catch22). However if you wanted to do pretty much everything the doctors do... it would be better to find a rotation program in a rural area such as Jefferson City, MO (state capital is considered rural) or Rolla, Mo. These programs do not have DO residencies and so the students have more freedom to participate in procedures etc. So you could get a better recommendation from one of those doctors but not necessarily have the in those that know the doctors making the decisions for placements. I want to do something primary care so the advantage to going to KCUMB is I am going to live with my gf and when I do rotations I can live at home in stl as well as get hookups to the peds residency programs at Glennon and Barnes (Slu and Washu residencies).

 

[JaggerPlate]

::: cough, KCOM, cough, cough ::: wheww, something caught in my throat there. Sorry OP, I just have no advice to give here ...

 

[Emerald84]

Thanks DK, that's great information.

 

[Emerald84]

Why KCOM? I felt a little claustrophobic in Kirksville and far far away from family and fiance....

 

[Emerald84]

Input in "Friendly" and helpful clinical education offices? I guess I want to feel like my school has my back and will be supportive in helping to set them up and provide good support while I am away from campus. That and good library space....

I wish I was less neurotic but it is something to consider

 

[JaggerPlate]

Why KCOM? I felt a little claustrophobic in Kirksville and far far away from family and fiance....

The bottom line is that these two schools are well established, have nice, big names, and will give you all the opportunities you need. However, this comment about not liking K-Ville brings me to my most important point ... you should go where it feels right and where you will be the happiest. This will yield the best results. Having a family network and being close to your finance will allow you to maintain some normalcy in med school and help you keep your head above water during a difficult time. Keep this in mind, and if KCUMB offers you this, I'd heavily weigh this point.

 

[Emerald84]

The bottom line is that these two schools are well established, have nice, big names, and will give you all the opportunities you need. However, this comment about not liking K-Ville brings me to my most important point ... you should go where it feels right and where you will be the happiest. This will yield the best results. Having a family network and being close to your finance will allow you to maintain some normalcy in med school and help you keep your head above water during a difficult time. Keep this in mind, and if KCUMB offers you this, I'd heavily weigh this point.

I did love their program, but having support is so important to me. My fiance was accepted to Tufts and Temple, so UNE and PCOM would be the closest and are fantastic programs. I liked both of the Missouri programs, but it is logistically tougher to get out of kirksville, which says nothing of the program. My charter flight to lovely kirksville was definitely an adventure. KCUMB is more urban. I am trying to learn more about the third and fourth year opportunities though.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I did love their program, but having support is so important to me. My fiance was accepted to Tufts and Temple, so UNE and PCOM would be the closest and are fantastic programs. I liked both of the Missouri programs, but it is logistically tougher to get out of kirksville, which says nothing of the program. My charter flight to lovely kirksville was definitely an adventure. KCUMB is more urban. I am trying to learn more about the third and fourth year opportunities though.

Schools with different 3/4 year systems, but both solid. I personally love the way KCOM does their clinicals because you can pretty much do anything you want, but still have the comfort that you're doing it through a solid system. With the exception of a few sites that are strict preceptor based, which isn't exactly what I'm looking for, their rotations are solid, in decent hospitals, etc.

I didn't know you were trying to stay closer to the NE ... I'd say to really push for UNE or PCOM because staying with your finance sounds very important to you (which it obviously is). Have you thought of maybe writing a letter of intent, calling admissions there, etc??

 

[beckhunter116]

Right now the clinical rotations site for KCOM is being updated on there website, but I believe it is very easy to get out of KCOM for your 3rd and 4th yr. As the oldest DO school around they have had plenty of opportunities to create relationships with sites over the years in a variety of settings.

Personally, for my 3rd and 4th yr, I would like a school that has a smaller hospital for your core rotations--for more hands on stuff and plenty of rotations that can be scheduled on my own so I can rotate at an academic hospitals so that I get used to reporting to residents, but you may get to do less hands on here.

Either schools will provide a quality education though. Hopefully you will here from an east-coast school soon, but be thankful that you have 2 acceptances to 2 great schools.

 

[spicedmanna]

I liked both of the Missouri programs, but it is logistically tougher to get out of kirksville, which says nothing of the program. My charter flight to lovely kirksville was definitely an adventure. KCUMB is more urban. I am trying to learn more about the third and fourth year opportunities though.

Hi, Emerald,

I'm currently a third-year medical student at KCUMB. What questions do you have about rotations? Basically, assignment of your core rotation site for third year works by a modified lottery match system. The school tries to match you to one of your choices, hopefully your first, but if there are more people wanting a given site than there are spots, that's where the lottery comes in. Early during your second year of medical school, you do a "straw poll" where you pick your top three sites of interest and the OCCE provides some statistics on how the class and you would have faired based on those choices; it's supposed to help you decide. After that, you do the match for real and everybody submits a list with their top three choices. All of that gets fed into a computer and out come the results, for better or worse. Some small percentage of folks don't end up matching to any site because of how they chose and end up entering a second match for the left-overs. Most people, however, end up fairly satisfied.

The core rotation sites for third year are of variable quality. You have to do your own research to find out which ones will more suit your needs. You don't get much help from the OCCE office on that front. There used to a book of feedback that students could read, but I think that has been d/c'd and no longer available. You can ask current third- and fourth-year medical students directly for their feedback and the OCCE does provide contact information for that purpose. In general, the core sites tend to community-based hospitals with AOA residency programs. If look at the affiliated site map, you can see the geographic distribution. The curriculum for third year includes two months each of family medicine, internal medicine, and surgery, and one month each of OB-GYN, psych, peds, and one elective. A two-month core rotation is not necessarily continuous, meaning, for example, a two-month block of surgery may be split between two non-contiguous months, one month in December and the next in March. Furthermore, depending on your core site, not all of the core rotations may be in-house. Sometimes a core site won't have a particular department and you have to go nearby to another affiliated hospital or clinic to complete the core rotation. For example, POH doesn't have an OB-GYN program, so the education office arranges for you to go to various other sites nearby to do the training.

I can't really speak about the quality of the sites other than my own core site. I wish I could help you more on that front. I do have a friend who has KC as his core site and basically, you are travelling to different sites pretty much every rotation and preceptors/sites are of variable quality.

The fourth year curriculum consists of three required core elements, one block each of EM and Cardiology and either three blocks of a rural FM rotation or one block of rural FM plus two blocks of a sub-I. In either case, you have four blocks of electives, which you pick and arrange for, with help from the OCCE, on your own.

Currently, your core rotations are graded, by letter grade, on two elements: your evaluation and an test you have to take on-line after the completion of the rotation. The eval counts for the majority of your grade. Honors can be attained by achieving 90% or greater on both elements of your rotation grade and writing a research paper.

Hope this was helpful. Feel free to ask more questions. I'll try to answer them if I can.

 

[ShyRem]

If she's at Tufts and wants to choose the Maine track, you can both be in Maine. Rotation sites for Maine are chosen by lottery system. It is rather easy to stay in Maine if you're not picky on Bangor vs. Augusta vs. Portland vs. Lewiston. We do have a lot of sites in Maine for 3rd year. Much of 4th year can be done in Maine as well if you're lucky. Getting rotation spots in Boston is very difficult, but we have a core site in the Berkshires which is pretty cushy I hear (but have no actual first hand knowledge of - I do know folks are pretty happy there and seem to get a good clinical education).

I have been very forthcoming about most of the information you asked for in the UNE discussion threads. However, we have a new Dean, and I do not know what his plans are. I would therefore hesitate to give repeat information which may be changing. I do know the rotation sites are not going to be changing much from what they currently are although UNE is trying to get more rotation spots in Maine and NH, closer to UNE. They are working diligently with rotation sites and meet with them several times a year.

As for board prep, you are required to have a passing score on level 1 BEFORE you are allowed to start third year rotations. This means you will only have a maximum of one month dedicated (no classes) study time before the last possible date to take boards. There is currently no formal board prep course offered (I do hope this changes). I would highly recommend you pay for a course and skip all second year classes you can get away with beginning in January and concentrate on board prep. It'll be worth it. However, having said that, I did basically just question banks here and there for six months and listened to Goljan, then really hammered QBanks for one month before my exam date and passed. Not a great score, but I passed.

 

[Emerald84]

Hi Shy,


Do you think UNE would be responsive to a letter of interest? I did call to check up on the status of my application. I was told that there was nothing in my app to prevent me from getting an interview invite, but that mine is in a stack of nearly 1000 and they continue to re-review applications. I don't want to be annoying, but it feels like everything to me right now. I have had my eye on UNE since 2004 when I first started my pre-med work. My stats are decent, 28Q and 3.6- ish upward trend (can't remember of top of my head)


More questions...
Do you have much of a choice as far as community hospitals and a good and diverse mix of hospitals that have more formal residency training programs with didactic lectures? Are there opportunities to participate in clinical research through UNE and other institutions?


Is there much flexibility in your second year classes so you can listen to mp3 of lectures and study for boards? Are there any small groups style seminars for first and second year?

Thank you thank you thank you!!!

 

[Emerald84]

This is fantastic, thank you so much. I was really helpful to find out how the rotations are evaluated. I like the opportunity to do research during rotations

Why do you think that the admin cancelled the feedback book? Do you think it is a reflection of the admin? What we don't know can't hurt?...

What did you feel was the greatest strength of the school? What sub-I's did you do and how was that experience (at community AOA residency hospital)

Hi, Emerald,

I'm currently a third-year medical student at KCUMB. What questions do you have about rotations? Basically, assignment of your core rotation site for third year works by a modified lottery match system. The school tries to match you to one of your choices, hopefully your first, but if there are more people wanting a given site than there are spots, that's where the lottery comes in. Early during your second year of medical school, you do a "straw poll" where you pick your top three sites of interest and the OCCE provides some statistics on how the class and you would have faired based on those choices; it's supposed to help you decide. After that, you do the match for real and everybody submits a list with their top three choices. All of that gets fed into a computer and out come the results, for better or worse. Some small percentage of folks don't end up matching to any site because of how they chose and end up entering a second match for the left-overs. Most people, however, end up fairly satisfied.

The core rotation sites for third year are of variable quality. You have to do your own research to find out which ones will more suit your needs. You don't get much help from the OCCE office on that front. There used to a book of feedback that students could read, but I think that has been d/c'd and no longer available. You can ask current third- and fourth-year medical students directly for their feedback and the OCCE does provide contact information for that purpose. In general, the core sites tend to community-based hospitals with AOA residency programs. If look at the affiliated site map, you can see the geographic distribution. The curriculum for third year includes two months each of family medicine, internal medicine, and surgery, and one month each of OB-GYN, psych, peds, and one elective. A two-month core rotation is not necessarily continuous, meaning, for example, a two-month block of surgery may be split between two non-contiguous months, one month in December and the next in March. Furthermore, depending on your core site, not all of the core rotations may be in-house. Sometimes a core site won't have a particular department and you have to go nearby to another affiliated hospital or clinic to complete the core rotation. For example, POH doesn't have an OB-GYN program, so the education office arranges for you to go to various other sites nearby to do the training.



I can't really speak about the quality of the sites other than my own core site. I wish I could help you more on that front. I do have a friend who has KC as his core site and basically, you are travelling to different sites pretty much every rotation and preceptors/sites are of variable quality.

The fourth year curriculum consists of three required core elements, one block each of EM and Cardiology and either three blocks of a rural FM rotation or one block of rural FM plus two blocks of a sub-I. In either case, you have four blocks of electives, which you pick and arrange for, with help from the OCCE, on your own.

Currently, your core rotations are graded, by letter grade, on two elements: your evaluation and an test you have to take on-line after the completion of the rotation. The eval counts for the majority of your grade. Honors can be attained by achieving 90% or greater on both elements of your rotation grade and writing a research paper.

That's really helpful to know!
Hope this was helpful. Feel free to ask more questions. I'll try to answer them if I can.

 

[ShyRem]

Hi Shy,


Do you think UNE would be responsive to a letter of interest? I did call to check up on the status of my application. I was told that there was nothing in my app to prevent me from getting an interview invite, but that mine is in a stack of nearly 1000 and they continue to re-review applications. I don't want to be annoying, but it feels like everything to me right now. I have had my eye on UNE since 2004 when I first started my pre-med work. My stats are decent, 28Q and 3.6- ish upward trend (can't remember of top of my head)


More questions...
Do you have much of a choice as far as community hospitals and a good and diverse mix of hospitals that have more formal residency training programs with didactic lectures? Are there opportunities to participate in clinical research through UNE and other institutions?


Is there much flexibility in your second year classes so you can listen to mp3 of lectures and study for boards? Are there any small groups style seminars for first and second year?

Thank you thank you thank you!!!

I don't know if they would be responsive to a LOI. No harm in trying. Try calling, asking if there is anything else they need, how much you are interested in the school, etc. Heck, even make a trip to see the school, sit in on a class or two and say "gee I'm going to be there anyway, is there any chance of an interview date?" They usually interview Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. They tend to look for more than stats.

I haven't been to every hospital, so I can't comment other than to say my peers seemed very happy with where they were for the most part. Augusta is a "small community hospital" with a FM residency program that had didactics daily, and didactics for the med students every Tuesday afternoon. Don't discount the "small community hospitals". I know one in Columbus Ohio that has a HUGE residency program and several didactic programs daily, but is still a "small community hospital."

There is research available at UNE. They have a new biomed research building across the street from the med school building.

You can subscribe to noteservice and get mp3s of most lectures (some professors don't want their lectures recorded). Some students choose to study at home and only come in for those classes that are mandatory attendance (not many). I'm an auditory learner, so it was helpful for me to be in class and take notes on the ppt files. I would review by listening to lectures at double or triple speed while going through the ppts with my notes added.

As for small group classes, there were some for my class, but academics are a constantly evolving process. They may have changed some of that. I wouldn't want to lead you astray. Neuro and neuroanatomy have always been lecture followed by small group sessions and labs and are some of the best courses at UNE.

 

[Emerald84]

Hi Shy and everyone else- I wanted to thank everyone for your thoughtful feedback, I really appreciate it. The bottom line is that I met my goal of getting accepted to DO school and for that I am so thrilled. I will definitely contact UNE and PCOM, but if it doesn't work out KCOM and KCUMB are fantastic programs that offer everything I want. I am also really excited to interview at LECOM-B and DMU, no complaints.

I am sure there are lots of you who can speak to making it work even if you are a bit further from your support system. I feel like I am a pretty resourceful person and will probably mesh well where ever I end up. It's just really great to be able to get some feedback.


Shy, thanks for your clarification on community hospitals. I think I was nervous about doing a core rotation at a site that did not have a formal residency program of any type. I want to have the didactic lectures.