Size of lab and level of authorship

[erraticVibe]

I know as undergraduates beggars cannot be choosers. I was wondering if there is anyway to weigh the level of authorship with the size of a lab? I know things can get political and some people "need" it more than others, so depending on who (or what) you are you may get positioned in the authorship favorably/unfavorably. So if there is 6-7 people in your lab, being the undergraduate and being 2nd or 3rd author, isn't really saying much...right? Cuz everyone contributed to the work in some fashion...but you still get shafted even if you did more of the work and helped write the manuscript?

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[MasonPrehealth]

I'd ask even before you start writing the paper. If it's too late, I'd ask for clarification and a mutual agreement of what the author order will be.

In short, to me there is no way I know what the size of a lab or a collaborative group is. Authorship should be reserved to people who contribute intellectually and financially to the findings of the paper, with policies in place to those who contribute technically to the experiments. (Otherwise, shouldn't every technician including your vet tech be on the paper?)

 

[gbwillner]

I know as undergraduates beggars cannot be choosers. I was wondering if there is anyway to weigh the level of authorship with the size of a lab? I know things can get political and some people "need" it more than others, so depending on who (or what) you are you may get positioned in the authorship favorably/unfavorably. So if there is 6-7 people in your lab, being the undergraduate and being 2nd or 3rd author, isn't really saying much...right? Cuz everyone contributed to the work in some fashion...but you still get shafted even if you did more of the work and helped write the manuscript?

There should be no correlation between the size of a lab and the number of authors in a paper. Only people who contributed to the work itself should be authors on a paper. The first author is usually the person who's ideas are laid out on paper and usually contributes a majority of the work. the middle authors are usually those who contributed in some fashion to the paper, typically in order of the size of their contribution. The final (senior) author is the PI. If several labs are collaborating, there are multiple senior authors and occasionally multiple first authors, denoted by a *, and something at the end saying something to the extent of "these authors contributed equally to theis work".

But essentially as an undergraduate you probably contributed little to the thinking in the project and likely had a small part to play in the overall scheme of things. Having any publication at this point should be a tremendous success, so congrats on that.

 

[RxnMan]

I know as undergraduates beggars cannot be choosers. I was wondering if there is anyway to weigh the level of authorship with the size of a lab? I know things can get political and some people "need" it more than others, so depending on who (or what) you are you may get positioned in the authorship favorably/unfavorably. So if there is 6-7 people in your lab, being the undergraduate and being 2nd or 3rd author, isn't really saying much...right? Cuz everyone contributed to the work in some fashion...but you still get shafted even if you did more of the work and helped write the manuscript?

I'm wondering how anyone would know? Nothing on PubMed can tell how many people were in the lab...maybe it's like the CIA - the Library of Congress has spies everywhere!

If you're worried about getting cut out of your due (the recognition of your work via authorship) then talk to your PI.

Then again, unless you're someone well outside the norm, most ugrads don't contribute significantly to projects. To clarify further, "most of the work" does not include running tests - it's designing the experiment, getting funding/approval/facilities, etc.

 

[erraticVibe]

Thanks for the prompt responses! Yes, many of the experiments were of my own designing, although I did none of the funding/facilities/IACUC approval work. While I don't think I'm a brain, I believe my PI lets me work with relative independence, and I consult with him to get criticisms or suggestions for some of the work we're doing.