Slacker, but still interested in medicine.

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preFP

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Here's my plan. I have close to a 3.8 from college, and an MCAT of 32. ECs are good (documented meaningful volunteer work, shadowing etc.)

Trouble is, I don't really want to graduate from med school with lots of debt, and I don't really want to graduate and then end up working 100 hours a week in some fancy schmantzy residency.

I want to graduate with as little debt as possible, and I want to go into something like psych or FP. I have no desire whatsoever to go into anything like surgery or some other competitive residency.

So here's my plan. Get into med school (yeah, I know, I'm not guaranteed a place, but let's pretend that this hurdle is already jumped, okay?) Then do about enough work as necessary to pass. That is, learn the material thoroughly and put in the effort, but not to the extent that I'm competing with the gunners and the pre-orthopedics people.

I also anticipate working part time through med school (except the third year, where it will be almost impossible). I have a nice job right now that will allow me to work as little or as much as I need.

Then after med school, I'll hopefully walk into a FP or psych residency, and I'll supplement that income with more PT work if need be. Then I'm done.

Thoughts? (And please, in advance, there's no need to give me a lecture about how I should not count my chickens before they've hatched, nor that I should step aside and let someone more worthy take my place in med school.)
 
Boy have I got an acronym for you: HPSP.

You must not be familiar with it, but the military will give you tuition & fees + $1900/mo during your school years in exchange for 4 years active duty in the medical corps.

If you want to go into family practice, you'll be compensated much better in the military anyway. So, unless you really, really, really have your heart set on seeing a lot of diabetes and COPD, I'm guessing you can sacrifice 4 years at better pay in exchange for several hundred thousand in stipend, depending on your med school of choice.


Also: Are you freaking kidding me? Someday someone's life may depend on what you did or did not learn in medical school. You think it's OK to get by with the bare minimum?
 
How does HPSP work? Would you have to treat the military outside of the country or could you treat the national guard in the country?
 
Funny thing is, I bet this guy would make a much better doctor than lots of other premeds.
 
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Epohi said:
what makes you say this?
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Trying not to sound like a dick, perhaps the fact that I'm balanced and mature enough to realize that there's more to life than a prestigious neurosurgery career and making tons of money? Frankly, after reading most of the posts made by premeds on this site, there's some scary, angry, narrow-minded, unrealistic and inexperienced weirdos who I'd never want to have looking after me. I'm just easy-going, happy, and want a reasonable career at a reasonable cost. I think most people want a normal, educated, and down-to-earth family practitioner, rather than some kid who has never actually experienced what it's like to be out in the real world. So many docs have their heads in the clouds. While this works well for ortho, neuro, derm etc., it doesn't work for FP - an unapproachable doc is absolutely useless.

starfishprime said:
So, unless you really, really, really have your heart set on seeing a lot of diabetes and COPD, I'm guessing you can sacrifice 4 years at better pay in exchange for several hundred thousand in stipend, depending on your med school of choice.
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Military isn't my thing.

starfishprime said:
Also: Are you freaking kidding me? Someday someone's life may depend on what you did or did not learn in medical school. You think it's OK to get by with the bare minimum?
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I doubt there's much I learn in medical school that will save someone's life during my family practice career. On the other hand, there's plenty I'll learn during residency that will save lives. Don't forget that you graduate medical school really not knowing a whole lot about practicing medicine. You learn the real stuff in residency and beyond.

And yeah, I do think it's okay to do the bare minimum to pass. People far smarter than you have determined what the acceptable levels of knowledge and competence are, and as long as I meet those standards (i.e. pass), then I'm good to go. 🙂
 
The National Health Service Corps will do the same thing but instead of working for the military you go and work in some underserved area of the country (if military isn't your thing)
 
preFP said:
Here's my plan. I have close to a 3.8 from college, and an MCAT of 32. ECs are good (documented meaningful volunteer work, shadowing etc.)

Trouble is, I don't really want to graduate from med school with lots of debt, and I don't really want to graduate and then end up working 100 hours a week in some fancy schmantzy residency.

I want to graduate with as little debt as possible, and I want to go into something like psych or FP. I have no desire whatsoever to go into anything like surgery or some other competitive residency.

So here's my plan. Get into med school (yeah, I know, I'm not guaranteed a place, but let's pretend that this hurdle is already jumped, okay?) Then do about enough work as necessary to pass. That is, learn the material thoroughly and put in the effort, but not to the extent that I'm competing with the gunners and the pre-orthopedics people.
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you remind me of a friend who just finished med school at a decent public school and is off to an ER residency this summer. He's a slacker, yes, but has always come through when it matters most. bottom line is, you won't get through school if you blow it off, but if you're just trying to avoid the BS of ultra-competitive specialties and the extra years of slave labor to get into a higher pay bracket, you'll probably do fine.

I'm an aspiring FP, as well, and there are lots of programs that will full- or partial- reimburse tuition if you commit to working in certain areas. I would absolutely not recommend the military if you are a slacker or in any way resistant to authority, especially incompetent authority. The program I'm shooting for would pay everything plus a $30,000/year stipend during school if I remain in my home state and commit to working with native american and other underserved populations here for 4 years. Sounds good to me considering that's where I already volunteer and really enjoy the work.

good luck, and don't let haters get you down. You are not a gunner or a future House, MD, and that's ok. I'd personally rather have a slightly less ambitious, capable family physician who cares and is cool under pressure than one of the junkee hyper-overachiever, heartless top tier kids I see on this forum.😉
 
starfishprime said:
Also: Are you freaking kidding me? Someday someone's life may depend on what you did or did not learn in medical school. You think it's OK to get by with the bare minimum?
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What a dumb comment. No one is going to die because he did not push himself more than he needed to in medical school. If I get into med school I plan on studying the least that is possible to get good marks. Same thing I did in undergrad. Of course its ok to get by with the bare minimum.
 
Trouble is, I don't really want to graduate from med school with lots of debt, and I don't really want to graduate and then end up working 100 hours a week in some fancy schmantzy residency.
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Um, I think you have a real problem with your impression of FP residencies. They're not easier, they're not fewer hours. They are shorter in terms of the number of years you work, but during the time that you're a resident you're going to be working quite hard. Also after your done FP will limit you to a fairly high number of working hours, FPs have to work for someone and that means working full time plus being on call. I guess you could try drifting out to the country and opening your own office, which could mean fewer patients, but then you are really and truely on call 24/7. Also taking few patients as an FP means really crappy money (as in no where near 100K) which is the reason most small town FPs tend to cram in as many patients as possible and work longer hours than most doctor in general. The reason that residencies like derm and radiology are so competitive isn't just because they make the most money, it's because they're the jobs in medicine where you don't have to work 80 hours a week. Working a ton is a sign that you DIDN'T get a "fancy schmantzy" residency.

Why the world would you bother announcing that you don't want a ton of debt? If you don't want debt that means going to your state school and/or getting a ton of financial aid. There's no other way around that. It's not like the "gunners" all chose to have 300K of debt because they wanted the extra challenge.

Honestly if you had an interest in psyche, don't want do break 50 hours per week working, and hate debt, it seems like a psychology PhD might be your best bet. Failing that you could work your ass off in medical school and gun for a residency like derm or plastic surgury where, once you get through residency, you're almost never on call (or, rather, you can let your pager batteries rust because no one is ever going to call you when you're on call) and can work 40 hours a week.

Finally working part time in medical school sounds like a good plan for giving yourself some kind of breakdown. You're looking at 60 hours/week just to pass (varies with the person, I know, but let's assume you're not in the top 10% of your class). If you're working enough to make any sort of practical difference in you standard of living you're already aproaching the number of hours you've said you absolutely don't want to work.

Please don't take any of this do be rude. I'm not taking some sort of self rightous moral issue with your motives. I'm just saying that you're plan of action really doesn't seem to match what you're saying you want.
 
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preFP said:
Trying not to sound like a dick, perhaps the fact that I'm balanced and mature enough to realize that there's more to life than a prestigious neurosurgery career and making tons of money? Frankly, after reading most of the posts made by premeds on this site, there's some scary, angry, narrow-minded, unrealistic and inexperienced weirdos who I'd never want to have looking after me. I'm just easy-going, happy, and want a reasonable career at a reasonable cost. I think most people want a normal, educated, and down-to-earth family practitioner, rather than some kid who has never actually experienced what it's like to be out in the real world. So many docs have their heads in the clouds. While this works well for ortho, neuro, derm etc., it doesn't work for FP - an unapproachable doc is absolutely useless.

Military isn't my thing.

I doubt there's much I learn in medical school that will save someone's life during my family practice career. On the other hand, there's plenty I'll learn during residency that will save lives. Don't forget that you graduate medical school really not knowing a whole lot about practicing medicine. You learn the real stuff in residency and beyond.

And yeah, I do think it's okay to do the bare minimum to pass. People far smarter than you have determined what the acceptable levels of knowledge and competence are, and as long as I meet those standards (i.e. pass), then I'm good to go. 🙂
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1. Many medical students have their heads in the clouds, the majority of physicians do not.

2. Presumably if you have this self-styled "slacker" attitude it is going to be hard to switch from doing the "bare minimum" as a student to becoming competant as a resident.

3. All through medical school it's going to be hard to figure out exactly what is the "bare minimum" needed to pass. The problem here is that if you're on the other side of the line then, well, you fail. Your plan is not completely unreasonable, but no matter how laid back you think you are or how easily school comes to you you might find yourself in panic mode come exam time.

4. Going into medical school with the attitude of "I'm going to be really chill because I just want to do FP" is fraught with peril. You will be a different person after 4 years of medical school and your professional/personal goals might be different as well. For various reasons, FP/psych are NOT popular choices for Amercian MD students -- so to assume that you are going to love one or the other is again, fraught with peril.
 
Perrotfish said:
Um, I think you have a real problem with your impression of FP residencies. They're not easier, they're not fewer hours.
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I've got to disagree with this. In terms of material that you need to learn and understand, there's probably little difference. But in terms of lifestyle during residency, FP is absolutely easier than most competitive residencies.

You're looking at 60 hours/week just to pass (varies with the person, I know, but let's assume you're not in the top 10% of your class).
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I'm going to respectfully disagree with this remark too. I don't think there are many people here who actually know what a 60 hour week feels like. People in undergrad routinely toss those kinds of numbers around, but in reality, an undergrad (yes, even a competitive student) probably attends class and studies around 25 to 30 hours a week tops. The med students I've spoken to seem to go to lectures fairly regularly, then study, and it's still barely 30 hours a week. They're all passing.

There's a big difference between 60 hours of real study and 60 hours of "being at medical school, travelling to medical school, making coffee, watching TV while reading, etc." I have no doubt whatsoever that if students honestly kept track of actual study time, it would be half what they thought they were putting in.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but even the successful docs and med students I've spoken to are very clear in that med school isn't a complete nightmare that robs you of every waking moment, and there's plenty of time to do other things.

If there's one thing med students and pre-meds are great at, it's overinflating how "difficult" their work is, and how many hours they spend a week studying - it's like some kind of crazy badge of honor. Instead of boasting about the length of their you-know-whats or how much they can bench press, they boast about how many hours they study.
 
AmoryBlaine said:
For various reasons, FP/psych are NOT popular choices for Amercian MD students -- so to assume that you are going to love one or the other is again, fraught with peril.
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Sorry, but I don't agree with this one little bit. I think it's clear that most people go to med school for a stable, financially-rewarding and intellectually-rewarding career. Psych and FP don't pay as well as other specialties, so they don't get as many applicants. If psych started paying what ortho paid, I would bet my life that it would suddenly become competitive to get into.

There's no other reason for the unpopularity of psych and FP. Most med students follow the money.
 
The med students I've spoken to seem to go to lectures fairly regularly, then study, and it's still barely 30 hours a week.
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Horsepatootie. I can't really argue this, other than to say that this didn't match my observations at all. People studied a lot, and not "in front of the TV".

Also, where exactly are you getting all of your info about FPs?
 
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preFP said:
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Maybe I'm wrong here, but even the successful docs and med students I've spoken to are very clear in that med school isn't a complete nightmare that robs you of every waking moment, and there's plenty of time to do other things.
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*DING DING!* We've got a winner!

Try increasing your sample size. You haven't been hanging out in the Caribbeans have you? Please define phrases like "successful" docs and med students, or phrases like "plenty of time." I hope they aren't all "slackers, but still interested in medicine"

I think it's one thing to say some people have an easier time in Med School than others, but it's a whole different bag of beans to think everyone else is lying when they say choosing medicine is no walk in the park. This kind of talk remind me of people who say doctors are overpaid for what "little" work they do because they seem to recall a doctor that they talked to before that had a pretty "easy" life.
 
I see nothing wrong with wanting to coast to your destination. I do not think it will be easy, as the minimum amount of work needed to pass is still quite significant. I would avoid saying things like this on SDN though, as you have many overachievers and neurotics lingering about. I plan on pushing myself and trying to compete for a good specialty, but I won't be disappointed if it does not happen. I am surprised (and humbled by the fact) that I've even made it to the point where a career in medicine is an option.
 
EpiPEN said:
*DING DING!* We've got a winner!

Try increasing your sample size. You haven't been hanging out in the Caribbeans have you? Please define phrases like "successful" docs and med students, or phrases like "plenty of time." I hope they aren't all "slackers, but still interested in medicine"

I think it's one thing to say some people have an easier time in Med School than others, but it's a whole different bag of beans to think everyone else is lying when they say choosing medicine is no walk in the park. This kind of talk remind me of people who say doctors are overpaid for what "little" work they do because they seem to recall a doctor that they talked to before that had a pretty "easy" life.
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*DING DING!* We've got an osteopat ... er, I mean, we've got an idiot!

If you read carefully, you'll note my sample size was not limited to successful docs and med students. You've missed that little word, "even". PreFP 1 EpiPEN 0.

I don't need to define "successful" and "plenty of time" in order for people to understand what I'm talking about, but just for you, by "successful", I mean docs making bank with great work/life balance, and med students who are close to the top of their classes. "Plenty of time" would mean exactly what it says - enough time to do things other than study medicine. PreFP 2 EpiPEN 0.

For the record, I never said medicine was a walk in the park. I merely stated that it doesn't have to be something that takes over your entire life. PreFP 3 EpiPEN 0.

Never did I call anyone a liar. PreFP 4 EpiPEN 0.

Yeah, we do have a winner. Me.

Sorry EpiPEN - you clearly came into this thread to start a little fight (because after all, you've added nothing constructive and spewed a mouthload of hate), and you've managed to make yourself look kinda dumb. Congrats.
 
i dont care what specialty you are shooting for, a career in medicine takes a lot of effort and work period. Sure you might be able to lessen some of it by just doing enough to get by but you are still going to have a lot of work to do.
 
kedrin said:
i dont care what specialty you are shooting for, a career in medicine takes a lot of effort and work period. Sure you might be able to lessen some of it by just doing enough to get by but you are still going to have a lot of work to do.
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Duh! Thanks for that brilliant insight. A lot of effort, eh? A lot of work to do? Jeez, I thought I'd be rolling into class at midday and back at home drinking a beer by mid afternoon.

Anything more in-depth to offer than some typical pre-med platitude?
 
PreFP, your little tally against EpiPEN shows you are competitive and anal enough to make a great med student! :laugh:

In all seriousness though, I've heard people who are going into psych drink a couple nights per week because they're not shooting for AOA or whatever. I think if you're completely fine with "P" and with a 220 on the Step 1 and not a 260 you can have some free time. Hell, someone going to Columbia told me that there's a 3rd year there who had enough time to train and compete in triathlons.

I think people are offended you're not going to try your best. I have a feeling that the people in allo might be much more sympathetic to you.
 
preFP said:
Duh! Thanks for that brilliant insight. A lot of effort, eh? A lot of work to do? Jeez, I thought I'd be rolling into class at midday and back at home drinking a beer by mid afternoon.

Anything more in-depth to offer than some typical pre-med platitude?
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just giving simple answers for the simplistic question that was asked. Dont blame me for the dumbed down discussion that you made. Throughout your entire post you basically whine about how you arent willing to put forth a whole lot of effort and just want to make it through. Your post is typical pre-med garbage.

Get some nuts and actually challenge yourself.
 
preFP said:
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If you read carefully, you'll note my sample size was not limited to successful docs and med students. You've missed that little word, "even". PreFP 1 EpiPEN 0.
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A suggesstion to increase your sample size becuase you seem to have a conlcusion that is in dire contrast to what almost everyone else is getting from medical students and doctorss is not an issue of misreading your post. For telling me to have missed your "little word" you sure are also very good at missing the bigger picture.

preFP said:
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I don't need to define "successful" and "plenty of time" in order for people to understand what I'm talking about, but just for you, by "successful", I mean docs making bank with great work/life balance, and med students who are close to the top of their classes. "Plenty of time" would mean exactly what it says - enough time to do things other than study medicine. PreFP 2 EpiPEN 0.
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I see, so successful doctors are the ones that make lots of money and work great hours and successful medical students have high ranks eh? I find this extremely amusing that you define successful as that when you stated in an earlier post that
...Trying not to sound like a dick, perhaps the fact that I'm balanced and mature enough to realize that there's more to life than a prestigious neurosurgery career and making tons of money?
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So you define success as achieving the opposite of what your "mature" self believes eh? Or is it that it is you goal to not be "successful" by your own definition?

preFP said:
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Yeah, we do have a winner. Me
...
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wait, wait, I thought I was the competitive osteo.. oh wait no that's just you letting out your hypacritical side again.

preFP said:
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For the record, I never said medicine was a walk in the park. I merely stated that it doesn't have to be something that takes over your entire life. PreFP 3 EpiPEN 0.

Never did I call anyone a liar. PreFP 4 EpiPEN 0.
...
Sorry EpiPEN - you clearly came into this thread to start a little fight
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I will gladly concede these points becuase I agree had taken liberties with your comments regarding this issue. I'm not going disagree that my post wasn't the the most polite one. So for the parts I deserve, I don't mind taking. I guess where we agree to disagree is I believe most medical students will take up almost all their time in school trying to study in order to do well instead of being slackers who boast about how many hours they spend living in the library.
 
kedrin said:
Get some nuts and actually challenge yourself.
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Yes, because it's common knowledge that everyone who doesn't shoot for neurosurgery is a big old loser.

Thanks for the advice, but I challenge myself in non-career ways that I find far more satisfying and fun. While you're bragging to a group of bored people at a dinner party about how you spent eleven years in residency working twenty seven hours a day and then ten years in the world's hardest fellowship doing micro brain surgery and now you're . . . (yeah, it's boring, isn't it?), I'll be discussing (for instance) how I just flew a vintage plane across the US, or the ins and outs of six months trekking across Peru, or even something as simple as how my kids are turning out to be great people because I actually have time to spend time with them.

Don't make the sad, sad pre-med mistake of thinking that a person is defined by their career.
 
Bradstein said:
I think if you're completely fine with "P" and with a 220 on the Step 1 and not a 260 you can have some free time.
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Not to be too nit-picky here, but getting 220 on Step 1 is much more difficult than you have made it out to be with this comment.
 
EpiPEN - your points are well taken. Thanks for the info.
 
preFP said:
*DING DING!* We've got an osteopat ... er, I mean, we've got an idiot!

If you read carefully, you'll note my sample size was not limited to successful docs and med students. You've missed that little word, "even". PreFP 1 EpiPEN 0.

I don't need to define "successful" and "plenty of time" in order for people to understand what I'm talking about, but just for you, by "successful", I mean docs making bank with great work/life balance, and med students who are close to the top of their classes. "Plenty of time" would mean exactly what it says - enough time to do things other than study medicine. PreFP 2 EpiPEN 0.

For the record, I never said medicine was a walk in the park. I merely stated that it doesn't have to be something that takes over your entire life. PreFP 3 EpiPEN 0.

Never did I call anyone a liar. PreFP 4 EpiPEN 0.

Yeah, we do have a winner. Me.

Sorry EpiPEN - you clearly came into this thread to start a little fight (because after all, you've added nothing constructive and spewed a mouthload of hate), and you've managed to make yourself look kinda dumb. Congrats.
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HAHA. altho this post confirms that you are in fact a giant douche bag ....it did make me laugh (especially the "osteopat...idiot" line to open it up). so kudos for that 👍
 
Bradstein said:
PreFP, your little tally against EpiPEN shows you are competitive and anal enough to make a great med student! :laugh:

In all seriousness though, I've heard people who are going into psych drink a couple nights per week because they're not shooting for AOA or whatever. I think if you're completely fine with "P" and with a 220 on the Step 1 and not a 260 you can have some free time. Hell, someone going to Columbia told me that there's a 3rd year there who had enough time to train and compete in triathlons.

I think people are offended you're not going to try your best. I have a feeling that the people in allo might be much more sympathetic to you.
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Actually, it's a recently graduated woman who raced bikes and triathlons... and a newly minted 4th year who races bikes semi-professionally. They're both nothing short of amazing. 👍

Dude. You can do it. DrDre311 (you can find him in the surgery forum) didn't think med school was very hard. Guess what? He matched integrated plastics. 😱 That is some serious bad*ssness.
 
LadyWolverine said:
Not to be too nit-picky here, but getting 220 on Step 1 is much more difficult than you have made it out to be with this comment.
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Good call. I knew that it sounded bad but I was trying to get my point across quickly. I used that number because it's the "average" score, right? I think I have an idea of how much studying goes into it, as in, several months of crushing review of the pre-clinical curriculum. And apparently some schools give you a MONTH off to study, and people spend 8-12 hours EVERY DAY studying for that month. So yeah, sorry I made it sound like I was just a formality, not a REALLY important and REALLY time intensive thing.

dienekes88 said:
Actually, it's a recently graduated woman who raced bikes and triathlons... and a newly minted 4th year who races bikes semi-professionally. They're both nothing short of amazing. 👍

Dude. You can do it. DrDre311 (you can find him in the surgery forum) didn't think med school was very hard. Guess what? He matched integrated plastics. 😱 That is some serious bad*ssness.
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Haha I wondered if anyone would notice I was talking about you. Yeah, sorry I didn't get tt right. But since you're here, are these two people also excellent students? Going into competitive specialties?
 
Bradstein said:
I think if you're completely fine with "P" and with a 220 on the Step 1 and not a 260 you can have some free time. Hell, someone going to Columbia told me that there's a 3rd year there who had enough time to train and compete in triathlons.

I think people are offended you're not going to try your best. I have a feeling that the people in allo might be much more sympathetic to you.
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That's what I don't get. For most people here, life is black and white. Everything falls into either "medicine" or "everything else", and most posters think that anything in the "everything else" category is a waste of time.

I don't want to shoot for an average-to-low pass simply so I can have some free time. I would like that free time to do other, equally-worthy activities. Triathalon? That would be great.

True, I'll admit that I won't be trying my best at medicine. But I'll damn sure be trying my best at life, which is far too short already to put on hold for a decade simply to shoot for something considered by a narrow group of people to be "prestigious".

There's more to life than medicine, and that doesn't mean I'll be a bad doctor. In fact, if I'm aiming for FP, I think it'll make me a far better doctor.
 
i hope no one is from missouri...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/07/01/cyberbullying.ap/index.html

lol anyways..


You might be a douche bag OP but i did not know that you actually would challenge yourself outside of your career, that is if you actually get around to doing the things you stated previously. I mean most people who actually challenge themselves and push hard do it in most areas of their life, including the important (even if you dont think it is) career area.
 
preFP said:
There's more to life than medicine, and that doesn't mean I'll be a bad doctor.
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This is a healthy outlook to have. There is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting a career that affords you the time to do other things besides your job. However, you will have to pay your dues during your medical training. To simply "pass" a course can be pretty difficult - there is not much opportunity to slack, even if you want just a P or a C. Unfortunately, there are some who need to put in tons of work just to barely squeak by. You will not know what type of student you will be until you get here.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a career with a fairly normal amount of hours per week. But keep in mind that you will still have to hurdle the same obstacles as everyone else. Unless you like repeating courses/years and throwing away even more money.
 
Thought this was in interesting quote to share in this thread:

"...You want to be a rebel? Stop being cool. Wear a pocket protector like he does and get a haircut. Like the Asian kids who don’t leave the library for 20 hours stretches, they’re the ones who don’t care what you think."
 
Bradstein said:
Haha I wondered if anyone would notice I was talking about you. Yeah, sorry I didn't get tt right. But since you're here, are these two people also excellent students? Going into competitive specialties?
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Hahaha. No worries, dude.

I don't know much about the 4th year's academic prowess, sorry.

The recent grad is in an Ortho residency now. 👍
 
To the OP, as a 3rd year med student, your plan sounds doable. But if you just aim to know the bare minimum, don't be surprised if you fail a course here and there.
 
gluon999 said:
But if you just aim to know the bare minimum, don't be surprised if you fail a course here and there.
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That was going to be my comment as well. More than a few folks who shoot for the bare minimum miss the mark and end up having to repeat things, sometimes adding a whole additional year of med school. (which runs up the costs significantly). It's hard to fail out of med school, but not hard at all to fail tests, courses and years if you don't put in what's necessary.

Most of the people who are squeaking by in med school are actually working quite hard to do so. The difference between the person doing well and the person doing poorly tends not to be in the number of hours in the library, it tends to be how organized an effective their studying is. Meaning you probably will be studying a ton of hours just to feel comfortable that you are going to pass your courses. And if you don't do a ton of work during the basic science years, you put yourself in a huge hole when you are studying for the Step exam. Lots of luck getting up to speed for that mother if you didn't lay the appropriate groundwork during the first two years.

As for the number of hours you suggest med students work and do fine, it certainly is student dependent but the folks you describe are not average. The average person works very hard in med school, and not just those who reap the rewards of honors. The kind of coasting you describe by taking tests based primarily on lecture attendance simply won't work in med school the way it did in college. The amount of material covered on each test is simply too voluminous, and if you aren't doing some form of multiple passes through the material before the test, you are SOL. Simply listening to the lectures and cramming won't work for 99.9999% of all US allo med students.
So unless you are willing to risk the 5 year plan, with multiple retakes, I wouldn't consider what you are contemplating.

I also would suggest not planning on working during med school until you get through a couple of tests and are doing fine. Med school can be shocking to a lot of people coming out of undergrad. You won't have the kind of free time you used to, and when you do, you will need it to decompress. The majority of med students don't work, and for good reason. If you find after a few tests or courses that you have spare time, go for it. But don't come in thinking you'll have a ton of free time to work because some freakish outlier med student you talked to didn't seem to work that hard.

Finally, I would suggest that most people change their mind about specialties at least once during med school. You simply don't know what you will like and dislike at the premed stage. Some of the things that seem cool end up not being what you thought, and some things you thought you'd hate you may end up loving. So you don't want to close any doors before you do your third year clerkships, if at all possible. And that means working hard during the first couple of years of med school and doing your best on the Step 1 exam.
 
Edit
 
preFP said:
Sorry, but I don't agree with this one little bit. I think it's clear that most people go to med school for a stable, financially-rewarding and intellectually-rewarding career. Psych and FP don't pay as well as other specialties, so they don't get as many applicants. If psych started paying what ortho paid, I would bet my life that it would suddenly become competitive to get into.

There's no other reason for the unpopularity of psych and FP. Most med students follow the money.
Click to expand...

Wrong. FP pays better than Peds but is less popular with American students. More American grads go into FP than the higher paying fields of EM and OB both of which have plenty of residency spots. There is no data at all to back up your assertion.

What I tried to say is that many students percieve FP/Psych to be distasteful for many reasons -- which is why you should not enter into an MD/DO program "knowing" that you are going to select these fields.

Your strategy is, as I have said, fraught with peril. If you take the slacker road and end up loving FP, probably no harm no foul (although there are some VERY competitive FP residencies). If you hit M3 and decide you love orthopaedic surgery you are going to be in trouble.

You can dismiss this opinion if you like, no skin off my back. But Match ceremonies are full of people who "never in a million years" thought they would be doing X specialty.
 
AmoryBlaine said:
You can dismiss this opinion if you like, no skin off my back. But Match ceremonies are full of people who "never in a million years" thought they would be doing X specialty.
Click to expand...

Do you mean because they "settled" or because their minds changed so much during med school?
 
If you do indeed go FP, it's a safe route for your style. My step-father was a regular ol' FP for awhile, and he told me he regretted ever trying to pay off his med school debt. Because sure enough, his first job paid off his debt for him...and the area wasn't that bad, it was in central california...not the greatest, but not North Dakota either.

Anyway, he worked the usual 9-5pm 5days a week... then he got sick <<I will leave details of his personal life out>>. He came back to work and arranged it so he only worked 3 days a week to lower stress. He was still making plenty of money (going to guess 120k at 3days a week work time). Then when he got bored of that, he studied a bit and took some test and now he's an Addiction Medicine specialist detoxing heroine addicts in SF. And if he gets bored of that, he can change around again.

So FP provides major flexibility in terms of how much you work, and what you are doing... for the rest of your career. This is a major draw of FP.

You'll be fine...the hard parts only last a few years, then you got a flexible/chill rest of your life if that's how you want it.
 
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