slide scanning: what do you use?

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schmolze

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Anyone out there digitizing slides? I'm interesting in buying something that will do at least 20X (preferably 40X) without spending $30,000. There are plenty of pricey whole-slide imaging "systems" out there, but surely there are some desktop film scanners that are up to the task? How about the Nikon Coolscan units?
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I'm not aware of any in that price range that can get that level of resolution without being a formal microscopic slide scanner. (Unfortunately, of course, manufacturers generally won't tell you up front what they charge for them, you have to call to get an idea, which generally involves discussions and negotiations and so on.) There are cheaper scanners that can do low power resolutions, like 2x or so, but if they could do half decent quality 20x I would hope we would all have heard of them (so holler if you find something). Obviously, you can set up single field of view imaging for much less with a camera on your microscope, not slide scanning per se.
 
I recently got this in the mail- list price is $24,999.
No personal experience with it.


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For a 15% discount certificate, register your name and email this week in top left corner at http://www.digipath.biz/. Certificate to redeem by December 1, 2011.

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It just seems crazy to me that in 2011 you have to pay $25,000 to scan a damn slide (or $100 or whatever to have someone else do it). This really can't be done with a decent dedicated film scanner? Oh well, I guess that's the situation for now.
 
Feel free to try -- I'm sure someone would let you at least once even if you don't have your own. I don't think the technology is all that fancy even in the expensive setups, except for some of the focus corrections from field to field, but I'm sure they're doing the best they can to protect it for as long of a profit time as possible -- who wouldn't, I guess.
 
I've used film scanners before, and in fact the picture I took was actually published. They sort of work but aren't nearly high enough resolution for any sort of microscopy work. It's only useful if you need a super low power picture.
 
schmolze said:
It just seems crazy to me that in 2011 you have to pay $25,000 to scan a damn slide (or $100 or whatever to have someone else do it). This really can't be done with a decent dedicated film scanner? Oh well, I guess that's the situation for now.
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but how many slides do you want to scan? and what will they be used for? if you only have a few slides ..pay someone else to do it for you there are lots of services that will do that for a nominal fee
 
dermpathdoc said:
but how many slides do you want to scan? and what will they be used for? if you only have a few slides ..pay someone else to do it for you there are lots of services that will do that for a nominal fee
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Hi there, you guys should check out the new ViewsIQ Panoptiq Slide Scanning System. Consists of a camera and a computer with state-of-the-art image processing software, Panoptiq allows you to use your existing microscope as a real-time slide scanner...works on any type of objective including oil immersion too. Best of all, it's cheaper than any slide scanner out there.

www.viewsiq.ca
 
ViewsIQ/Panoptiq: Looks like a step in the right direction, but even the website isn't entirely complete. Sounds like they took telepathology and have a way to capture what is basically a video stream and turn it into a single still image, so after you manually scan the slide around and go to higher power in your area(s) of interest, it saves, and someone else can later open the file like a typical scanned whole slide to see everything at the lower/scanning power as well as the specific areas you went to higher power in. For those people who don't have a need/desire to scan in tons of slides, it could turn out to be a good middle ground option between single field of view snapshots and major scanning systems. Would be interested to hear from anyone who's used it..
 
Other than Aperio, what other major companies are selling quality scanners to hospital groups?
 
Im curious...how are you going to get the ROI on that bad boy?

What is the going rate from CMS to scan a slide? Is it still zero dollars?

Assuming you are interested because you want to scan and send the material across distance so you can do what I like to call "Pajama sign outs" I would investigate the laws in your area related to this far before I would quote up the actual scanner...
 
LADoc00 said:
Im curious...how are you going to get the ROI on that bad boy?

What is the going rate from CMS to scan a slide? Is it still zero dollars?

Assuming you are interested because you want to scan and send the material across distance so you can do what I like to call "Pajama sign outs" I would investigate the laws in your area related to this far before I would quote up the actual scanner...
Click to expand...

Slide scanners are a terrible investment. Those devices dont have much of a future since there is no monetary incentive to scan slides.

Its funny watching the democrats trying to delay the medical device tax that is part of obamacare. Why did you vote for it then? We just had 450 people laid off at a medical device facility near me in preparation for the tax. Thanks for killing more jobs, democrats. And probably plunging us into a dark age for innovation.
 
Well, they do keep getting cheaper. But for the most part they don't pay for themselves, unless you can use them for some sort of telepathology like transplants or call duties or off site frozens.

They are really good for taking pictures for tumor boards, conferences, etc!

To say they have little future is very short sighted. There is likely quite a future for many purposes, including archiving slides, off site frozens, consultation, education, etc. But they have to get cheaper and faster for the most part. They may have a very bright future for consultation purposes. Could save money on transport and shipping. It's hard to know when the line to "worth it" becomes reality though. Probably depends on your priorities.
 
LADoc00 said:
Im curious...how are you going to get the ROI on that bad boy?

What is the going rate from CMS to scan a slide? Is it still zero dollars?

Assuming you are interested because you want to scan and send the material across distance so you can do what I like to call "Pajama sign outs" I would investigate the laws in your area related to this far before I would quote up the actual scanner...
Click to expand...

We are considering adding a scanner to either our own path/hospital budget or the cancer center budget. Obviously the minimal additional revenue for 88361 (quant analysis by computer assistance) vs 88360 isn't going to pay for the scanner. Not the point. We are considering adding a scanner for various other reasons including TB presentations, formal external consults (although admittedly very few academic institutions accepting them right now), internal consults amongst our group members including frozen sections at offsites, and for record keeping of all slides sent out. While we have no plans to formally scan ALL slides and keep them as part of the EMR, we occasionally have patients ask to pick up their slides for second opinion or whatever, and we never see these slides again. Having a digital copy of the original slides would be important.

I'm looking at Aperio and BioImagine/Ventana, but wanted feedback from others on these as well as other vendors.
 
SLUsagar said:
We are considering adding a scanner to either our own path/hospital budget or the cancer center budget. Obviously the minimal additional revenue for 88361 (quant analysis by computer assistance) vs 88360 isn't going to pay for the scanner. Not the point. We are considering adding a scanner for various other reasons including TB presentations, formal external consults (although admittedly very few academic institutions accepting them right now), internal consults amongst our group members including frozen sections at offsites, and for record keeping of all slides sent out. While we have no plans to formally scan ALL slides and keep them as part of the EMR, we occasionally have patients ask to pick up their slides for second opinion or whatever, and we never see these slides again. Having a digital copy of the original slides would be important.

I'm looking at Aperio and BioImagine/Ventana, but wanted feedback from others on these as well as other vendors.
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Hold it, what...
Your group is so vast you need to digitize slides to send internal consults? Are you with the US Military sending slides from a distant Arctic outpost to Walter Reed??

There is no money in this, you will eat this cost and for what purpose? Patients shouldnt be running off with slides AND blocks. Right? Just cut more slides.

This sounds like grade A hijinks. Soon you will be grabbing at the can of Alpo thrown by the local urologists like the guy I met last week...

Keep hijinks to a bleeping minimum. Sign out your cases. Maximizing TC/PC splits like Heme FISH etc.
 
SLUsagar said:
We are considering adding a scanner to either our own path/hospital budget or the cancer center budget. Obviously the minimal additional revenue for 88361 (quant analysis by computer assistance) vs 88360 isn't going to pay for the scanner. Not the point. We are considering adding a scanner for various other reasons including TB presentations, formal external consults (although admittedly very few academic institutions accepting them right now), internal consults amongst our group members including frozen sections at offsites, and for record keeping of all slides sent out. While we have no plans to formally scan ALL slides and keep them as part of the EMR, we occasionally have patients ask to pick up their slides for second opinion or whatever, and we never see these slides again. Having a digital copy of the original slides would be important.

I'm looking at Aperio and BioImagine/Ventana, but wanted feedback from others on these as well as other vendors.
Click to expand...


If your hospital or cancer center is willing to pay for it, why not get one. If you are a small group that would have to pay for it yourself, why get one unless you personally want to be a few grand lighter in the wallet.

Do they come with capability to do morphometric analysis. I have only seen them used to scan slides. We do computer assisted morphometric analysis but don't need a slide scanner.
 
I want to know how much people are getting paid SPECIFICALLY for doing tumor boards. I personally get paid a somewhat decent amount, on the order of 500-600 an hour due to my billed prep time but I would guess most of you get paid squat....

therefore, you are a total fool if you buying capital equipment for an activity that pays nothing. That's not how a business succeeds, its how one FAILS.
 
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FDA pretty much killed off the sales of slide scanners in the USA earlier this year.

http://www.cap.org/apps/cap.portal?...ators.html&_state=maximized&_pageLabel=cntvwr


I am all for investing in technology/infrastructure but no way would I invest in these slide scanners in an established lab. Who knows, maybe in the future it might actually be cost effective to start a lab with this technology and by-pass traditional microscopy.

A good nikon camera for a few grand will meet all the needs you have at this point (tumor board, putting images on reports etc)
 
LADoc00 said:
I want to know how much people are getting paid SPECIFICALLY for doing tumor boards. I personally get paid a somewhat decent amount, on the order of 500-600 an hour due to my billed prep time but I would guess most of you get paid squat....

therefore, you are a total fool if you buying capital equipment for an activity that pays nothing. That's not how a business succeeds, its how one FAILS.
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I want to be your padawan learner. I give myself to your teachings.
 
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